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Request - How should we respond to suspension waves? (1 Viewer)

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I've been talking with a few people about this for months, but ultimately MacroQuest is an open source project, so I'd like to open this conversation to everyone.

How should RedGuides respond to the recent 7-day suspension waves? We don't have the resources of a $300,000,000 company, but we certainly have passion. What should we focus it on?

Some things to keep in mind:
  • When reading this thread, you'll notice up ▲ and down ▼ arrows next to each reply. Use them to upvote ideas you agree with.
  • While a lot of us are upset about suspensions (people are venting on here and social media) we need to keep in mind that we're EverQuest fans. We're here because of the work and creativity from Darkpaw Games, so please show them respect even if you disagree with their judgement.
  • We assume several thousand people use MacroQuest, though this is a very rough estimate as we don't log anything in game nor are we the only distributor. DPG has a much better idea about usage than we do.


EDIT & SUMMARY

If you took the time to vote or reply, thank you. Here's the primary action suggested in every post with at least two votes:

Add detection safeguards to MQ + 149
Communicate with DPG + 101
Boycott / Stop playing altogether + 55
Stay the course / No change +49
Focus on Emu +20
Stop promoting our playstyle +20
Remove Truebox restrictions +9
Add more "anti"-features such as anti-AFK checks. + 7
Turn on safety features by default: audible alerts on say, tell, /ooc camp checks, etc. + 4
lol +2

The highest two suggestions have been heard loud and clear. I imagine an effective boycott would need organization, I'm open to it but not just yet. Staying the course has already been tried 😅. Emulator is attractive for many reasons, and work has already begun on MacroQuest for emu clients. I don't think we'll take down our youtubes or relax truebox restrictions anytime soon. I wouldn't push for anti-features without some type of assurance they'd help our cause. Some safety defaults like those hotpocket suggested will probably be in a commit soon.

Again, thank you all for the replies and for sticking with us to this point. If there are any ideas I missed, or improperly summarized, please reply!
 
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skaffloctz said:
I work in technology in Silicon Valley and have done so for years, including stints at a few startups and some company's you know (I'm a computer scientist/software engineer). It's not about technology, its not about the user experience, its not the cool factor, at the end of the day for companies like DBG its a business and its always about the money, particularly in the C-suite. I think with the new ownership, the current EQ leadership has been given a bit of free reign to go after "cheaters" in the hopes that it will increase revenue by returning Everquest to its heyday and if we only get ride of cheaters/botters, gamers will flock back to Everquest and revenues will increase because obviously botters/cheaters are what has been driving declines in subscriptions. When the acquisition occurred, incoming ownership at EG7 were probably pitched this approach by JChan and her ilk and were given the green light so as to be given a chance to see how it goes.

I disagree, I think that this will not happen (revenue increase). In fact, I think players like me who have/had limited playtime and who's best gaming experience in EQ is running my own 6 box crew who abides by the common "play nice policy" are the sort of constant revenue streams that per subscription software businesses would crave. With that in mind I think the only real pressure to be applied is a financial one. This is what businesses understand at the end of the day. With that in mind, after catching my 1st suspension in 22 plus years and reading the writing on the wall I cancelled all 10 of my gold accounts. I see no reason to give business to a company who clearly does not want my business.

I think if you read the tea leaves this may be a viable approach but it will take time. I ask myself the question that I'm sure others have asked. Why only suspensions? If the VV and its ilk are so detrimental to the game, why only start with suspensions, why not go nuclear and just outright ban anyone found using automation? Because they want the revenue. From my perspective why on earth then should I pay for accounts I cannot use due to the ongoing crackdown? Its a bit of a catch 22 for them - piss me off and people like me and we go away along with our large monthly outlay, don't run me out of town and the white knights and vocal minority who whing about automation might go away with their single account.

It may take a couple of quarters each to see revenues contract. At that point if it does, the the people in the C-suite for EG7 will have some uncomfortable questions to put to the leadership at DPG if they are at all competent as to what they are doing. Its also possible that the amount of subscribers like myself (multiple accounts, buys kronos etc to feed my bot army, always buys the expansions, etc) are a minority of subscribers and trying to hit DPG in the wallet isn't viable, only they have the numbers - the fact that they aren't going all out ban tells me they need us financially and in the long run if financial pressure is applied they will have to come to an accommodation. In any case, in keeping with the times I'm applying my own financial sanctions against DBG (though I will keep subscribed to Redguides in the hopes you all come up with a solution.) For now I'm replaying Fallout....
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Knightly said:
Lua for one. But there’s a ton of features in MQ that have been added in the last ten years too.
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100%
gameross said:
The emulators don't use recent clients, so what's the point; especially when there is already a MQ available for the various old clients.
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clean organized code that allows people who want to make awesome stuff a reality is a huge thing.

working in the old mq2 codebase versus the mq codebase for someone like me (uneducated newbie) was problematic - for many reasons.

I think we're going to see some really exciting stuff in the emu world with MQ happening
 
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honestly if enough of you that are and know how to code are willing to look at the eqemu client, the levels are built only to 70 even on the newest client. the major problem with going past 70 is a few things but its mostly that the scrip wont allow a higher spell/skill count and item counts and such. if i remember right you could only add a about 3500 new spells past 70 or to low levels. I also remember being warned to not add new items past a certain number as well. But if you keep the exp bonus down and replace some of the obsolete drops with drops that you would want to add. you can push it to 80 or so from what i was able to do.

if my no coding experience self can do that much i would love to see what could be done with and honest look at what the server has and what its full limits would be.

i will say this it was a lot easier to change the code on it and make what i wanted compared to either of the wow emu's that i had running this past year.
 
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Ehh, not so much. The emu server code isn’t representative in any way of the EverQuest code base. So, how you change things on emu isn’t related to how it works on Live. There’s also the matter that emu’s client hasn’t changed, while Live changes every patch. So it’s not really apples to apples on “how hard would this be to change.”

But the reason they made that nerf was intentional, it wasn’t an accident. So I don’t think they wanted to go back.
 
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Knightly said:
Ehh, not so much. The emu server code isn’t representative in any way of the EverQuest code base. So, how you change things on emu isn’t related to how it works on Live. There’s also the matter that emu’s client hasn’t changed, while Live changes every patch. So it’s not really apples to apples on “how hard would this be to change.”

But the reason they made that nerf was intentional, it wasn’t an accident. So I don’t think they wanted to go back.
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bard nerf, and i know for a fact was because CS tickets for guys like my college roommate who would pull off of PoV mobs knowing each that didn't summon. and then grouping em up. hitting harm shield for a tight grouping then soon as it wore off aoe snare and aoe dots for duration of the life of the group, and geting 20 bucks for each pull to power level others in the college. it wasn't him alone. but every server back in 03-04.
 
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for me to not want mq2 they would have to make merc's useable at least until the most recent content. fix auto follow to actually follow. make it where boxers could actually log in multipul accounts with out being a hassle. and lol give all access all 3 of the extra perk packages as part of the current price for gold.
 
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Micker99 said:
Just quit the game for awhile. You won't even miss it after a couple weeks. I usually sub, get excited for the expansion, play for a month and realize it's the same treadmill lol. I got excited to come back and use MQ, but then the suspensions and all that crap. I never miss it when I quit, just get curious to what is going on after several months. These games just take themselves too seriously, with all these nerfs etc..
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I have to agree especially since the weather has warmed up. I'm going outside. Getting some walking/hiking and socializing with real people, etc. I've already gone down a belt notch(I was somewhat close before) because I'm not just sitting around playing EQ. I might even be less stressed not having to plan my schedule around making raids, etc!

Come winter, I'll probably play again, but I'm not going to play more than 4 without MQ, so good job shooting themselves in the foot and losing 8 additional subs *if* I start again; to say nothing of the subs they are currently losing until then.
 
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lanceval said:
Many people loose interest on EQ during summer.
We will see how that goes.
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Suspension waves, better gaming options rolling out, hot girls in bikinis...no are good for eq gaming :)

Emily Ratajkowski Dancing GIF
bikini GIF
The Simpsons Bikini GIF
 
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Hulkman said:
The Jail server is basically the ZEK server from what I understand. Free transfer to Zek server and then I think you cannot get off it either

It would be interesting what that server is like and how much it is monitored
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And yes, you can transfer off Zek. I did it with one toon
 
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lllReLoaDeD said:
can we in the mean time, do a release that doesn't get us suspended, like no mq2melee or plugin's that give a user, a clear advantage over normal players... plugins like MQ2fps , this way my money still gets me something i can use. i also know i can unload the plugins but they may just be useing the programs name to detect ... and this way the "New Program" you release has nothing to do with a program that gives a user, a clear advantage over normal players
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there is no "1 cool trick".

you can certainly unload things you don't want, but understand that mq is mq is mq is mq - equally against their rules all the way across
 
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lllReLoaDeD said:
can we in the mean time, do a release that doesn't get us suspended, like no mq2melee or plugin's that give a user, a clear advantage over normal players... plugins like MQ2fps , this way my money still gets me something i can use. i also know i can unload the plugins but they may just be useing the programs name to detect ... and this way the "New Program" you release has nothing to do with a program that gives a user, a clear advantage over normal players
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Or you can just not load...just sayin'...treat your bots like cattle, not pets and a little 7 day vacay here and there won't phase ya
 
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Well, I have been on a mini strike for about 3 weeks, I haven't played since then.

I have never been suspended or caught in anything, just still mad that can happen. Always been very careful, but now I do not care.
I even did stupid things like AFK for hours, I didn't care, my subs ran out, and not going to resub anytime soon. I am sitting on Kronos a lot of them and not going to use them.

One thing, I do miss you guys, hence why I am still here, lol.
 
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lllReLoaDeD said:
can we in the mean time, do a release that doesn't get us suspended, like no mq2melee or plugin's that give a user, a clear advantage over normal players... plugins like MQ2fps , this way my money still gets me something i can use. i also know i can unload the plugins but they may just be useing the programs name to detect ... and this way the "New Program" you release has nothing to do with a program that gives a user, a clear advantage over normal players
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You can edit your macroquest.ini file. put a 0 on plugins you do not want, and a 1 on those you do then save. You do this before starting mq, and they will not load.

If you are asking what plugins give you a advantage over other players, well I'd probably just put a 0 next to about all of them. Even the mq2map gives you a advantage over other players.
 
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Agree with ya i miss the game, and interaction with some people but, the core fallacy of 3rd party software use has prevented me from playing for about 10 months now, i check this forum frome time to time, but im just doing my half life alyx and other things to occupy my time when not working. I will be back one of these days maybe if they ever change till then ciao!
 
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I have 15 active account not paid by krono but my hard earned cash. I had to cancel 9 accounts due to being suspended for the 4th time 2 weeks ago.
Currently I'm only boxing a full group of 6, if and when I receive another suspension / ban, I will say my goodbyes to EQ and move on to something new.

If DPG is reading this.. Please, just let us do our own thing, we aren't monopolizing nor are we perma camping nameds, I'm just in a damn instance by myself trying to get this stupid amount of AA's thats required for a shaman.
 
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To all you guys facing down the gun barrel on live, I understand completely and I was broken hearted that I had to give up the my only true love in online games. I've played almost everything else out there and nothing holds me like EQ does. But I refuse to have my characters that I've played since 2001 perma ban so I won't risk any more suspensions. By the same token I cannot play my full group without 3rd party software without severely aggravating my carpal tunnel. So I was stuck in the worst no win situation.

I thought out of desperation I would try these emulator servers and see if there's anything there I can hang on to. After many attempts with different servers that all felt wrong, were too easy or had 2 players online.. I finally found a home on the project Lazarus server. While it's not perfect, it is the best thing going at the moment. I highly recommend giving it a go before you walk away from EQ all together. There is plenty of activity in OOC (serverwide) chat, lots of players and a pretty balanced system without bizarre changes to the base game like some of them out there.

Just give it some thought and look over the wiki page for the server or join the discord and see if it's something that will fill that hole in your gaming life.

Lazarus Wiki Page

I hate that DPG has taken this road, but we won't change that any time soon, perhaps ever. I fear they will run the game completely into the ground before they give up this witch hunt.
 
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In Vanguard I used to 6 box using virtual desktops software. So you dragged each client onto a virtual desktop and then I could tab straight to it using Ctrl 1-6 or whatever. So nothing was automated, I was playing them all by myself... I had a GM follow me around basically harassing me and sending me little popups on various characters that I had to click. He was doing this to someone who had paid for the game, was playing 6 accounts manually, in a game that was almost dead with hardly any other players in the world!!! And all I was doing was questing and doing normal noob shit by myself. And it was all because some passing jealous cocksucker saw me and reported me for 'botting' because he saw me running around with 6 characters on autofollow. The game was dead within 6 months of this happening.

That's the mentality of scum. I don't want anything to do with people who think like that and I definitely don't want them getting any of my money.
 
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microscope said:
In Vanguard I used to 6 box using virtual desktops software. So you dragged each client onto a virtual desktop and then I could tab straight to it using Ctrl 1-6 or whatever. So nothing was automated, I was playing them all by myself... I had a GM follow me around basically harassing me and sending me little popups on various characters that I had to click. He was doing this to someone who had paid for the game, was playing 6 accounts manually, in a game that was almost dead with hardly any other players in the world!!! And all I was doing was questing and doing normal noob shit by myself. And it was all because some passing jealous cocksucker saw me and reported me for 'botting' because he saw me running around with 6 characters on autofollow. The game was dead within 6 months of this happening.

That's the mentality of scum. I don't want anything to do with people who think like that and I definitely don't want them getting any of my money.
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Unfortunately, this seems to be a common human "feature". The classic example of giving a person just a little bit of power over other people and they ultimately turn into abusive tyrants.

Most of us have probably seen this IRL at work or even small things like internet forums where a pretty cool guy gets elevated to Moderator and soon turns into a frothing at the mouth Forum Nazi condescending to and berating people for the smallest infractions and censoring content left and right.

I suspect plenty of GMs do fall into that micro-penis, overcompensating, petty tyrant category but I will also have to admit there are plenty of good GMs out there for sure. I have had GMs help me on broken quests, missing items and stuck characters on MANY occasions of the past 20 years so I dont want to paint them all with the same brush by any means.

Perhaps the ultimate demise of EQ will be heralded by the exact opposite scenario though. No customer support, no GMs there to help the handfull of players still getting milked for their last dollar until the day the server gets switched off. (people like ME! lol)

GM Cartman:
respect-my-authority-cartman.gif
 
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I feel that profitability is the only thing that would possibly make a difference on the long run.
So it is probably good to postpone any purchases with DB for a year.
This is not going to be quick. So be patient.
In the meantime, that the perfect opportunity to explore EMU or switch to full FTP.
 
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Keep playing smartly, and accept the fact that there is risk in anything the general gaming public is against. I have been playing since beta, and love this game. I just want to find ways to love it more. I am not going to let this stuff stress me out, as that is what my kids are for. lol
 
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Request - How should we respond to suspension waves?
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