Sony has updated their logging methods (1 Viewer)

[TeachersPet]

I was going through my email today and I found the ban email for my Shaman on The Sleeper. I know it's been said a lot but not everyone knows this so here are a few quotes from an email from Dean Graf, the head of EQ Customer Support, to me regarding my 2 accounts (one of them luckily wasn't banned).

The logs show the same pattern of normally-impossible movement between and through zones on both accounts

In some cases characters on the accounts have crossed some of the largest zones in the game between one data packet and the next; in others they have crossed from a zone entrance directly to a notable point or NPC within the zone in the same amount of time. No router issue, lag spike, or dual-core processor can produce the kind of data our logs are generating when your accounts are queried.

Basically this means that Sony has finally upgraded their logs to give them more than just a hint that someone might be hacking. They have definitive locations before and after a warp as well as much more exacting information on why would would have been warping. They can also directly tell if you have been zoneshifting by counting the number of packets in between zoning.

However, even though the detection methods are much better, they still have to actually look at you for hacking so if you keep a relatively low profile you should be fine. I doubt they do many random checks outside of the Progression servers.

 

[Cybris]

So SoE finally got 2 Brain Cells LOL. Not like they couldn't have done this years ago.

The next question tho does there logging auto generate a report of accounts that have weird behavior and send that to a GM. So they can just go down the list.

Or does the GM have to actually mull thru the logs?

 

[Cobalt]

So SoE finally got 2 Brain Cells LOL. Not like they couldn't have done this years ago.

The next question tho does there logging auto generate a report of accounts that have weird behavior and send that to a GM. So they can just go down the list.

Or does the GM have to actually mull thru the logs?

SOE has been auto-suspending for months now. They are confident enough in their tracking abilities.

I'll throw out all my theories on the matter:

Right after OOW (Fall 04) is released, a new packet is added. This packet logs movement and sends it to the server. All movement is clientside, so the server only knows what you want to tell it. Nothing really comes of that tracking packet for nearly a year. I can only assume they are collecting data and working on a serverside tracking method.

A post by a developer in the summer/fall of 05 indicates that they have created a system to detect certain methods of cheating. While not perfect, they plan on implementing it.

Late fall/early winter 05, this new loging begins to report suspected hacks and GMs are called upon to start watching and handing out suspensions. About 4 months go by. GMs are handing out regular suspensions proving that the system is capable of detecting warp hacks.

Early spring 06 comes and then there is a rash of auto-suspensions. SOE is confident in its tracking abilities and no longer requires GM action to suspend accounts. There is a noticeable shift in CSR duties and responses to hacking. GMs not longer deal with these types of suspensions.

Progression servers are launched and heavily watched by GMs. SOE's tracking methods are further developed and enhanced. Accounts are now getting suspend for more than just warp, zoning seems to be an issue. Now keep in mind, nearly all the reports of zone suspensions come from using piggy zone, or a version thereof (rapid zoning). I'm not sure if manual zoning at a slower speed trips off these suspensions.

Present day comes and another expansion. From a hacking point of view, this expansion was tame. Packets remained intact, structures were only moderately affected. SOE may or may not have added the progession server tracking mehtods to all the live servers. Time will tell.

This is a personal account of my experiences from a programming point of view and player. I’ve had accounts suspended, banned and falsely suspended. I’ve warped with and without protection, ghosted, and other things that will remain anon. I will say one thing though, I don’t use warp very often, I only manually zone, and I’m also relatively discreet around other players.

The basic moral of the story is simple, abuse it and lose it. If you know your stuff, there are ways to use these hacks with 99.00% confidence that you’ll never get suspended. 1% comes from the human element and just pure bad luck.


BTW TP nice info.

 

[botsalot]

While i know there is no way to know for sure. Best guess from your point of view.. is this something that is watching all accounts and generating reports or do you think it is more a matter of getting yourself on anyones radar through petitions or someone having a pocket GM or Dev in thier guild who decided to watch you for whatever reason.. i guess my question is .. do you think this is something for the masses or just the asses .. asses being those who are dumb enough to bring about the envy , anger and notice of other players and or GM;s

 

[Cobalt]

While i know there is no way to know for sure. Best guess from your point of view.. is this something that is watching all accounts and generating reports or do you think it is more a matter of getting yourself on anyones radar through petitions or someone having a pocket GM or Dev in thier guild who decided to watch you for whatever reason.. i guess my question is .. do you think this is something for the masses or just the asses .. asses being those who are dumb enough to bring about the envy , anger and notice of other players and or GM;s

This applies to anyone who does not understand how MQ2, plugins, packets, detours, offsets, and programming work. So if you just get precompiles, I would be very careful about warping around. You will get caught eventually, whether you generate enough logs, SOE refines their tracking methods, a GM sees you, or a player petitions you.

 

[botsalot]

God i hate to sound like an argumentative prick..

So are there some type of packet editors being used to bypass the serverside checks that are not being made public or are you saying simply if u cant keep up to date on the changes they are making to the coding to allow you to understand how to avoid the traps just dont use.

 

[Cobalt]

God i hate to sound like an argumentative prick..

So are there some type of packet editors being used to bypass the serverside checks that are not being made public or are you saying simply if u cant keep up to date on the changes they are making to the coding to allow you to understand how to avoid the traps just dont use.

Yes (kinda) to both. It's like anything in this world. While you don't need to know how the engine in your car works, if you want maximum performance, it'll help.

 

[someoneorsomething]

The warp hack is what sets RG apart from MQ2 boards. Thats why im a loyal RG member. This is 5.95 a month and the mq2 boards is a one time fee (i donate every moth cause i think they deserve it) It will be a big loss to RG if this is taken out.

 

[jimbo]

A script to scan EVERYONE'S logs for the sort of thing that was the basis for this suspension/banning (PiggyZoning) would be so incredibly easy to build, I cannot imagine them not just running it on all of them. Perhaps they are just suspending the most blatant 10% or so to get the message out. Or maybe they run more detailed logging on 'suspicious' accounts.

In any case, can we safely conclude that there has, in fact, been at least a renewed push by Sony on this, if not new logging methods?

If so, it would appear that TurkReno's dire warnings were not baseless, and were perhaps rooted not in attention mongering (or whatever was the argument presented recently), but rather in genuine concern and desire to stop people from getting their accounts banned.

Though I think everyone could appreciate TurkReno's decision to not include the 'dangerous' plugins in his own published compile so as to not be a party (contributor) to an account being banned, I know that fewer appreciated his warnings in other compiler's threads. It was a breech of etiquette to be sure.

I think the question of whether he was doing it as a result of having a malformed ego, or other self-interest, can be put to bed. So let us see what occurred for what it was, and learn from it. TurkReno breached etiquette because he thought it extremely important to warn people of impending doom. The response he received was more like “Go to hell, Chicken Little! You just don’t want any competition for your empire of gratitude” than the more polite “Please post your warnings in your own new thread”. It then degraded into a flame war and made the board sufficiently un-enjoyable for (at least) a long-time contributor to quit, flame-out, or both.

I rarely contribute to the MQ2 forums because the rudeness is so out-of-control there. I don’t want to see that happen here. When someone offends you, keep in mind they are a whole human being, and maybe not just the asshole. Try at least the first time to let them know you are offended without offending in return. Thanks to the moderators for keeping it civil here. It makes for a much more productive environment.

I know this diverged off-topic. I don’t intend to hijack the thread. I just thought this leads in so naturally to my thoughts that I couldn’t help myself.

--Jimbo

 

[TeachersPet]

I wouldn't say they're autosuspending because it would be impossible for them to determine in some cases if something happened legitimately. For example I think rezz triggers their checks still (I was actually summoned by a GM and accused of hacking because I received several rezzes), but it's lightyears past what it used to be.

I still stand by the "Keep a low profile" approach because it's pretty unlikely that they'll suspend you for hacking unless you pop up on their radar.

 

[Cobalt]

In any case, can we safely conclude that there has, in fact, been at least a renewed push by Sony on this, if not new logging methods?

It's not renewed. It's been happening for over a year. They've just added more detection methods is all.

“Go to hell, Chicken Little! You just don’t want any competition for your empire of gratitude”

lol... maybe someone else said something like that, but that's definitely not the message that was trying to be sent to Turk. He was making over zealous, incredulous statements, based on hearsay and his very limited understanding of how EQ/MQ2 works. The spirit of his message was very accurate though, and I don't think many people tried to argue that. What you guys don't know is how Turk has carried himself in other places of our very small community, it was absurd and unfortunate.

That being said, let's leave it die here. If you want to discuss/argue, this PM me and we can have a long talk.. =)

 

[Cobalt]

I wouldn't say they're autosuspending because it would be impossible for them to determine in some cases if something happened legitimately. For example I think rezz triggers their checks still (I was actually summoned by a GM and accused of hacking because I received several rezzes), but it's lightyears past what it used to be.

I still stand by the "Keep a low profile" approach because it's pretty unlikely that they'll suspend you for hacking unless you pop up on their radar.

That happened to me. Look at my sig.

 

[botsalot]

If I PM you and we have a long talk will you hold my hand and whisper sweetnothings in my ear? /chuckle. thanks for taking the time to put it in terms i can understand cobalt.

 

[neo_vs_hal]

The difference between Turk's warnings and TeachersPet's warnings is TP gave reasons and examples of why the warning should be heeded. Turk only came out and said "don't do it because I know you will get into trouble, but I'm not going to tell you why I know."

I respect both Turk and TP. However, even if it is the same old story as some want to say, I appreciate TeachersPet sharing the information.

 

[Doubleduce]

Does anyone have a realistic guess at how long SOE keeps their 'logs'? If you believe the SOE hype, there are over a quarter million of us still playing. Keeping the logs of activities for each character for every play day could be a costly practice just in drive space. Add to that the problem of parsing the logs for unusual activity, it just doesn't seem likely that they keep them for very long. Would it be safe to assume that if you haven't been busted for warping, piggy-zoning, fading, and gating within a couple of weeks that you are probably safe?

 

[doomsinger]

I know this is hearsay, but I recall it being posted that sony was farming off the log portion to another company to process, this includes the hacking checks and such.

If they did this then the other company if all they do is process log information it would make sense that they could handle the workload and not have it cut deeply into the customer service and other development aspects of hacking prevention in Everquest.

The auto bannings seem to at least somewhat confirm this as well as some of the replies that people are receiving for their accounts getting banned.

Don't underestimate the capability of storing log information for many years. Hard drives don't cost $300 for a 10 gig hard drive anymore. Large drive arrays can be produced very cheaply these days. Companies are leasing network storage really cheaply as well.

 

[Jinx]

Are those guys using Ghostkill affected by this? Isnt' that using a warp of sorts?

I used Piggy and warp all the time and in July I was caught by GM Blueberry Muffin man or something. I logged in .. was only one in zone and warped to zone and BAM he poped right in front of me. I hit gate and he summoned me back. I kept asking me how I moved liked that. over and over and finally suspended. 10 days and I got my account back so I haven't used either since and laid very very low.

 

[tagger]

The difference between Turk's warnings and TeachersPet's warnings is TP gave reasons and examples of why the warning should be heeded. Turk only came out and said "don't do it because I know you will get into trouble, but I'm not going to tell you why I know."

I respect both Turk and TP. However, even if it is the same old story as some want to say, I appreciate TeachersPet sharing the information.

I understand where turk was comming from and ALL i seen was a bunch of freaking babies crying because someone knew something and they didnt ... have you ever thought of maybe a family member of his was a GM or guide or a SOE empoyee? If he told us what he knew to the letter, that family member or friend, would be put in jeapordy and could possilbe loose his or her way of life. (their job- for those of you in Reallinda)
He was not just protecting himself but I am sure someone close to him along with himself and US damn it. we as consumers dont need to know everything, just enough to keep our rears out of trouble. Turk quit compiling because of the BS that came with that rash of crying on the last expansion. I for one will miss his compiles. and I did hear and listen to the warnings.

 

[Cybris]

Are those guys using Ghostkill affected by this? Isnt' that using a warp of sorts?

I used Piggy and warp all the time and in July I was caught by GM Blueberry Muffin man or something. I logged in .. was only one in zone and warped to zone and BAM he poped right in front of me. I hit gate and he summoned me back. I kept asking me how I moved liked that. over and over and finally suspended. 10 days and I got my account back so I haven't used either since and laid very very low.

Heh I would the the percentage of bannings for useing ghostkill is very high. Cause most the poeple that buy it do stupid stuff like kill current end game bosses solo. Or kill mobs that spam the zone heh.

Btw if your account was suspended then it's flagged and they will watch your log for any supicious behavior

 

[Siddin]

Those who compile DO need to know exactly what is going on because otherwise we have no idea how to bypass it or fix it.

 

[Cheesymac]

A friend of mine was using MQ on the progression and eventually purposely got his 2 of his 3 accounts banned since he was quitting. This is what he gathered.....
Most not all zones are watched. Overthere for example he was able to use all the run speed and warping he wanted. The moment he went into Dreadlands though all suspended accounts and bannings started to happen. The one was for going behind the KC wall and kiting a mob for giggles being behind the wall. He logged right after and 30 within 30 minutes later was suspended. No way anyone could of seen it since he used the side no one was on. The warp was no farther than a half second normal lag spike. The other instance he did a simple /getcorpse and was playing for a good 5 hours with run speed on then when he logged. The same effect....auto ban within 30 minutes of logging. It seems the auto ban system won't boot you just will go for the silient ban after logging. It definately seems most zones are flagged that have any kind of raid target "progression being gore ath the time" Just like how RSS was the first to be flagged with the Dogs on Ghost Kills.... I just wanted to share that info about the progression server that a friend gathered up.

 

[EvenLessSpam]

have you ever thought of maybe a family member of his was a GM or guide or a SOE empoyee?

Have you ever thought of maybe TurkReno is a guide and have said so on several occasions?

 

[macduw30]

What kinda gets me is why look a gifted horse in the mouth ? we all know that use of mq is illegal by soe's standards period. we know that warping had a 100 % chance of getting you banned. You have some one telling you that he has it on good authority that soe is amping up there want to ban people for cheating. and people proceed to flame him. Now lets see we have had 2 people that regularly did quite a bit for Rg (in the way of precompiles etc) decide to retire ... Now i know im no authority on any matters here i have not been a member that long dont know the history or what ever im just going by what ihave seen since i have been a member. Alot of people use mq and most do there own precompiles etc but there are also some that have no clue how to do the compile (or dont have access to VB). If you ask me Soe is at work planting seeds in here to get those, that regularly did precompiles pissed enough to quite doing them. Lets decrease the Mq community from with in. If we dont have any one compiling for the mass's then those that cant do it will have to work harder at getting it or just give up. Thats my conspirocy theory. haha

I am able to compile my own but man how nice it was to just d/l the file place it in dir and go one stop shopping. Now i have to do a lil xtra work. For those that contribute to the cause thanx.. To those that cause friction step up to the plate take over and then complain and flame all ya want...

I know You cant please all of the people all of the time . But for what its worth haveing the option of no compile was sweet no one can deny that turk didnt assist many of us..

 

[Cobalt]

SOE is going to break MQ2 by putting in encrypted timestamps into all their packets. This timestamp will keep us from being able to use packet hacks effectively until the encryption is defeated, which is going to be very hard. We've seen the first sample in the latest upgrade to the zoning packet.

That's the truth. Not some turk prediction.

















Well not really.. =)

 

[BobOfEQ]

Guides do not have an inside track on this stuff, a guides primary responsabilities and information is to role play, run events, and assist players with lost corpses, stuck characters and the like. They are not 'in on' what security is being implimented or GM responsabilities. At best they might get to see information of a few bugged places in the game that people are having issues with. Broken quests, messed up NPCs, etc.

I think people understand the spirit behind warning people that maybe various times like after an expansion or patch might be a bad time to be carefree with hacking until we understand what has been implimented. Often times people respond negatively or positively to the attitude in which its said though.

As for keeping the logs, most companies by law are required to keep records for years. Sony Online Entertainment would be no different, I am sure they keep them for a long time. Even if its just an archive. Its all text and thus not hard to store.

It pretty much seems to me that they have been moving towards and even said they are moving towards implementing software to catch hacks and things. The shared bank was obviously an example. It makes sense that if they are working towards an automated system of log checking or whatever that eventually if not already some suspensions would be automatic and then a GM or CSR would go investigate to determine if in fact it was a hack or the system made an error. Then comes the ban or release.

What thresholds they have put in place for the software to catch a 'problem' is up for a guess. But there would probably have to be some sort of determining factors, that allows them to know that it wasn't due to "router issue, lag spike, or dual-core processor" issues. Since they said they could determine that.

If it were me in charge there I would definately do as people suggested, and have a report automatically generate with highlighted suspicious behavior. That way you are not having to dig through logs to find the suspicious behavior. And possibly even have the system auto-suspend to give you time to investigate.

We can speculate based on circumstantial evidence and their own words, at how much of this kind of thing we think is already in the game.

Basically hacking can draw attention to you, the more you do, the more attention. The more you do it in front of people, the more attention. Choosing bad timing and places to do things such as right after patches and in new servers can draw attention. Attention is bad, mkay.

 

[adol]

Double D-thanks I was wondering the same thing, also as stated above, about knowinghow to use MQ2 more safely. Are there ways to use warp more"safely" ie say you wanted to get into a instance zone with out spending a hour clearing to that zone so you ran up just below the zone in and warped up to zone in. Is that safer that zoning across a zone?? Or no difference. Also what if you just /zone to the next zone verse piggyback. Meaning PoK book to Nek forest the /zone lava then /zone broodlands for example if that safer or makes no difference?? Also heard that /stick back it getting folks anyone hear of bans for using /stick??

Just wondering.....

 

[ac1dgenocide]

this may be a bit off topic and maybe on the wrong thread but... years ago me and a friend were argueing about how Sony doesn't care about people using macroquest, its the Automated macro's and Plugins that piss them off. I wouldn't argue at all there because i think that if sony really really wanted to do something about it they could.. they have to have some of the best coders in the world... its Sony! but anyhow... this is just me ranting because i'm mad at sony for being foolish.

what also pisses me off is that Developers of plugins for macroquest should get paid for their work IMO BY sony. I can't count the numerous times i log on after a patch day and they have implimented something like Group tracking on your map for ALL classes... or well now that i'm trying to think of them i can't think of any more of them lol. my point is, sony rips off ideas that originated from macroquest so maybe thats why they don't try to prevent macroquesting the best they can. maybe they've laid off a bunch of SOE.EQ Devs and just sent some guy browsing mq2 forums and has him look for potential addons to put into the game!

p.s. /rant off

 

[Siddin]

mq2exchange -> bandolier
mq2twist -> melody
mq2fps -> fps
etc. needless to say, sony did rip off mq2 MANY times, but it is an open source project.
I wouldn't mind if they tried to encrypt timestamps because of the fact that when they tried changing it to a "harder" encryption. both mq2 and showeq had it cracked quickly. not only was it easier to crack, but it was faster for mq2 to re-encrypt it with the same key. So in essence, they did us a favor at that point.

 

[JCasper]

mq2exchange -> bandolier
mq2twist -> melody
mq2fps -> fps
etc. needless to say, sony did rip off mq2 MANY times, but it is an open source project.
I wouldn't mind if they tried to encrypt timestamps because of the fact that when they tried changing it to a "harder" encryption. both mq2 and showeq had it cracked quickly. not only was it easier to crack, but it was faster for mq2 to re-encrypt it with the same key. So in essence, they did us a favor at that point.

encrypting means nothing MQ wise.

All the data must pass through a function on its way to being encrypted in which point the raw data can be intercepted and modified as needed.

 

[smason]

Have read reports of people not playing there accounts for atleast a couple of months to come back to a banned account. I also played on one of the progression servers and I used piggy all the time everyday the only place that i really didnt piggy to was freeport. I log on about once a month to see if the account is active and so far it still its.
But I do agree with an above post about how Turk was stateing that he knew what they were doing new but wouldnt say, I think thats what he said. What I couldnt understand, if he was so concerned with the people here then why not tell us what is going on and what is new so we can figure out a way to keep it from getting people in trouble.

Also something I dont really understand is why people all the sudden look at warping as its, per say bad, yes its going to get you caught if you use it enuff sooner or later, but I look at it as, we all came to this site becasue of warping and other choice little toys. We came here to cheat period, let us the consumer choose what we want to use, not to be moderated.

I didnt understand people trying to censor the cheating. We all make a choice when we subscribe and when we download the DLL's or the compiles. If warp is in there thats great, thats more or less what we pay for but the point is it is our choice, the consumer, not to use it or to use it.

Anway I have rambled on enuff, I just feal that we pay for cheats we are cheaters why do we need a cheater to tell us what is to much. Not everyone is going to use it responsibally and alot of that is why mq is on the radar as it is. But if this is going to be moderated to the point of carebear cheats it should be stated upfront.

 

[majin1970]

Not everyone here comes here to cheat. I'm probably not alone here, but I don't feel the basic usage of MacroQuest is cheating. It's the automation of functionality that is already possible in EverQuest. Sure, I could sit there and mash my Slam button or Forage button all day, but if I can get the same result with less wrist movements, that reduces the chances of me obtaining carpal tunnel while still being able to play and chat with people I enjoy being around.

I may be speaking only for myself here, but the main part about EQ that kept me in for so long is the people. It isn't the gameplay and certainly not the quests, it's the people that make the community of EverQuest addictive.

 

[someoneorsomething]

it's the people that make the community of EverQuest addictive

.

True cause when im LFG i hate life

 

[Hotter]

I don't feel the basic usage of MacroQuest is cheating.

A definition of cheat: To violate rules deliberately, as in a game. Any version of MQ, whether you use plugins or not, goes against the EULA. That pretty much seems like cheating. It's not what you think about it. It's what Sony thinks about it.

 

[mrmath]

People who come to redguides come here to cheat. If you just want automation of forage etc, then you have a much better resource available to you at http://Macroquest2.com

If you want automation of active hacks, or exploits, then redguides is for you.

There are 3 types of cheaters in everquest. Those that don't use MQ, but feel that exploits like FDing to split mobs, or ranged fighting a boss with a nasty ae ramp/spell is ok. These guys are analogous to j-walkers, or people who download tv shows irl.

Then there are those people who use MQ, but to "just" automate small things like pressing forage, or getting behind a mob and backstabing. These guys are analogous to petty thieves, cc scamming. They are not hurting anyone, insurance covers it anyways.. just like foraging for 60 hours straight in Thurg is not hurting that kid who has 2 hours to play per day and spends at least an hour foraging hides to make some plat. You *are* hurting them, and when cc companies increase their rates to justify losses, those cc scammers just hurt average joe..

Then there are those who are looking for any exploit they can find. 1000AA in a week? gimmie. 1 plat per minute sploit? gimmie. Warp here and there.. sounds good. Ghost Kill.. who's got the latest one? These guys are analogous to drug dealers slinging that crap to kids, downloading movies currently in theatres etc..

So in essence, we're all cheaters, even people who go 66 miles per hour on a 65 mph zone, but there are differences. And yes, I was bored.

 

[abs0]

There are 3 types of cheaters in everquest. Those that don't use MQ, but feel that exploits like FDing to split mobs, or ranged fighting a boss with a nasty ae ramp/spell is ok. These guys are analogous to j-walkers, or people who download tv shows irl.

Is that why they makes AE's with 50 or 100 foot range? They are hoping player are honest enough to stand in them?

 

[newperson]

Lol...FD to split is cheating. Any credibility you had in your post = gone.

 

[Sum1]

Actually, FD to pull and split was not one of the intended uses of the FD ability. Essentially monks figured out that if they FD, the mobs sometimes wander back to their spawn locs at different times, effectively splitting themselves, or that they could use geometry to create gaps.

The only reason FD was left in the game (and this is arguable, I know) is because monks aren't exploiting anything in the game design when the use the FD ability, while pet pulling, for example, was exploiting the way mobs agro (and therefore got the axe).

There are still folks out there who consider FD pulling an unintended "exploit" of an ability given to monks and others by soe.

 

[jimbo]

People who come to redguides come here to cheat. [...]. These guys are analogous to petty thieves, [...] These guys are analogous to drug dealers slinging that crap to kids, downloading movies currently in theatres etc.. [...]

Whoa... whoa... whoa... stop right there. You are equating cheating in a silly computer game with theft and drug dealing?! They ain't even the same f--kin' thing.

You say they're in the same ballpark, Vincent?!

It ain't no ballpark either. Look maybe your method of cheating differs from mine, but running a macro for imaginary rewards, and supplyin' crack to your neighbor's children, ain't the same ballpark, ain't the same league, ain't even the same f--kin' sport. Computer game cheating don't mean s--t.

--Jules

Time to up your Ritilin dosage mrmath.

--Jimbo

 

[shadowman33]

I really don't see how you can call FD splitting an exploit. If FD is an exploit, then what is root splitting now that pulling methods have been changed and nerfed? Splitting mobs is as easy now as ever with the new aggro changes made. All you have to do is outrun a mob for a certain amount of time and aggro wipes. Not like before when you come back 10 min. later and get trained from remaining aggro. I do this constantly in new zones pulling mulitiple 73+ lvl non summoning mobs. Root one, other comes. Just run that pull far enough away before engaging and the other never even comes. Using FD to split pulls is not an exploit. It's using the ablilities your toon was given to use. Same as root splitting and fade splitting which still works just fine btw.

 

[someoneorsomething]

Actually I do sell crack to kids.....then run them over. It’s ok though because they are worthless crack heads and they need to be stopped anyways.

Anyways we are all cheaters. Period. But ghost kill/warp (by un-cautious and stupid peeps) brings attention to the community of cheaters. SOE has to react by banning to appease the non-cheating community. And this is what the “Lighter side” of cheaters don’t want. Then they cant 6 box. (which hurts the LFG community, but that’s another argument)
I remember before my mq days I saw 4 mobs pulled, (no chanter) so knowing the wipe was gonna happen I pushed the camp button and luckily camped. Came back 1 min or so later to my slain comrades. I then started rezzing and I get a /tell from one of the members of my group saying “how the hell you survive” I told him I camped and he said he would have no part in cheating lol. He actually disbanded. So I guess its who you talk to that decides what cheating is.