Plugin - MQ2Shaman 3.1.52471.11

[Sic]

Strange then. In Vorpal, with melee off, he would still run up the mob. He wouldn't melee, but he would stand right next to it casting.
Edit: Oh, he was probably just running up close to the MA, not the mob.

Anyway, Is there a table, or spreadsheet, that shows what each mode does and doesn't do? This would be a nice addition to the general text descriptions you already have of each mode. =)

No again. In vorpal it does NOT move to the tank. If you have melee turned off it does NOT move to the mob.

Vorpal assists from where it stands. No movement unless you have usemelee on and pull a mob to it.

Sounds like you have follow me stuck on or something else.

did you review the information and links i shared with you?

MQ2Shaman Commands Tab:

Mode:
/shm mode - Manual|Assist|Chase|Vorpal 0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8
Has access to all of the CWTN plugin "Modes"
Mode 0 - Manual --- Manual
Mode 1 - Assist --- assist your MA and returns to camp
Mode 2 - ChaseAssist --- chases and assists your MA
Mode 3 - Vorpal Mode (Assist but no camp or chase) <--------------------------------------- Assist but no camp or chase.
Mode 4 - Tank --- tank stuff
Mode 5 - PullerTank --- pull and then tank
Mode 6 - Puller Assist pull and then assist MA
Mode 7 - SicTank Mode --- sets a camp, and does tank stuff, but doesn't return/sit down
Mode 8 - Hunter Tank mode --- runs around and kills stuff


Vorpal mode was made for vorpalchicken who wanted an assist mode, that he could use to manually "come to me" toons to dungeon crawl. it is exactly as it is stated in the commands. It assists from where it is at, but it doesn't set a camp (so no returning to camp to sit down), and it doesn't chase the tank (so the tank can freely move around and the toons chill where they were last placed).

so you can come to me, pull them mobs they fight it. tank moves to next spot, "come to me", pull them mobs they fight it. rinse/repeat.

 

[ChatWithThisName]

only goes to the mob if usemelee is on.

 

[raw]

Yes, I read the resources. And I believe you guys I'm just describing what was happening and trying to figure it out. I did check my auto follow. Next time I'm hunting I'll but sure to check again.

What would be nice (at least for people like me who sometimes struggle with the descriptions) is some kind of table like this:

Mode	Makes Camp?	Returns to Camp?	Assists MA?	Chases?	Sits down?	Breaks invis to melee?	Breaks invis to buff?
Assist	Yes	Yes	Yes	No	Yes	Yes	Yes
ChaseAssist	No	No	Yes	Yes	No	Yes	No
Vorpal Mode	No	No	Yes (unless invis)	No	No	Yes	No
Tank	Yes	Yes	Yes	No	Yes	Yes	Yes
PullerTank	Yes	Yes	Yes	No	Yes	Yes	Yes
Puller Assist	Yes	Yes	Yes	No	Yes	Yes	Yes
SicTank Mode	Yes	No	Yes	No	No	Yes	Yes
Hunter Tank Mode	Yes	No	Yes	No	Yes	Yes

 

[Sic]

you are way overthinking this.

that chart doesn't help that you are saying xyz is happening under circumstances that xyz doesn't happen in.

I would stick to trying to solve one thing before you start making charts.

like:
ensuring you have your settings set to how you want them. mode, assistat, usemelee
ensuring you don't have followme stuck on.
ensuring you don't have a macro running that is automating your movement.

Any tank mode or assist mode is going to make a camp - in the case of huntertank it is a "roaming" camp around the tank inside of the pulling area - but everything else is the red circle on the map. this is a camp. your output in your window says if you are making a camp or not.

assist modes and their camps are for usemelee usage when mobs get in that camp and you have met your assist at #, you will start attacking.
melee classes (not shaman and not enchanter) will not target or turn on attack in manual mode

Mode 0 - Manual <------ Manual - no camp, for melee toons it requires you to acquire your own target and turn on attack, toons like enchanter and shaman will still get targets and do their debuffs/dots/nukes in manual mode based on campradius.
Mode 1 - Assist <------ assist your MA and returns to camp
Mode 2 - ChaseAssist --- chases and assists your MA <--- chaseassist is the only mode that chases, hence the name, chaseassist; no camp, because it is chasing
Mode 3 - Vorpal Mode (Assist but no camp or chase) <--------------------------------------- Assist but no camp or chase.
Mode 4 - Tank <------ tank stuff - sets camp, returns and sits down after combat
Mode 5 - PullerTank <------ pull and then tank - sets camp, returns and sits down after combat
Mode 6 - Puller Assist pull and then assist MA <---- sets camp returns and sits down after combat
Mode 7 - SicTank Mode <------ sets a camp, and does tank stuff, but doesn't return/sit down
Mode 8 - Hunter Tank mode <------ runs around and kills stuff as the tank, inside your pullradius

 

[kaen01]

just casting my cents in the mix here, never use afollow or follow me buttons when you have cwtn toons loaded, use their built in chase mode instead, anything else will just cause you disaster and unwanted actions.

 

[raw]

My request for a table or chart is unrelated to my OP about the strange behavior — indeed, it was probably a setting I missed as it's no longer happening.

I understand that these are clear as day for you, Sic, as you helped to develop them.
For me, and possibly others, it helps to visualize things in a table or chart rather than with only textual descriptions.
Thanks.

 

[Sic]

My request for a table or chart is unrelated to my OP about the strange behavior — indeed, it was probably a setting I missed as it's no longer happening.

I understand that these are clear as day for you, Sic, as you helped to develop them.
For me, and possibly others, it helps to visualize things in a table or chart rather than with only textual descriptions.
Thanks.

K

 

[raw]

K

I filled in the table above based on my understanding of the text descriptions. There are a few ?s in there.

 

[Coop]

Question about BYOS. I use mq2shm and if I want to adjust my spell lineup a little how does that work? Say I want to run heal mode but want more dots in my lineup, will he continue to focus mainly on healing but add the additional dots? Do the different modes change how he uses my personal spell lineup? Thanks

 

[Sic]

Question about BYOS. I use mq2shm and if I want to adjust my spell lineup a little how does that work? Say I want to run heal mode but want more dots in my lineup, will he continue to focus mainly on healing but add the additional dots? Do the different modes change how he uses my personal spell lineup? Thanks

yes it will continue to do the same routine it already does

the modes do not change behavior - only the spells that it has and uses (i should have called it loadout and not stance).

you should just use dps, which loads more dots and less heals - it doesn't change priority.

if you are in byos you are not using a "stance"

keep in mind, byos will only use spells that the plugin thinks you have - so if its not a spell that gets spit out in a spell group when you load up the plugin, it isn't going to use it.

 

[Coop]

Thanks Sic

 

[Many_Whelps]

This plugin heals too good. Like seriously, I was asked to box my shaman for a guild raid because we were a bit light on healers. So, okay, I add it to the raid and set it to heal stance and enable raid mode while I played my regular main. Then the parse gets linked and, not only was MQ2Shaman the top parsing healer on the raid by an incredibly large margin, but it full on out-healed the next 2 parsing shaman, combined. I mean, how am I supposed to say "IDK guys, I'm just really good at boxing!" when a character who has never raided comes out in group gear and beats live players who have been raiding shaman for years? Now I got the shaman class lead, who already has a grudge against me for *reasons*, digging through the parses and saying "WTF!" to anyone who will listen!

/sarcasm off

 

[Hylander]

Be careful sharing wonderful stories like this otherwise the ‘peanut’ gallery might lobby for delays or random mis-casting to make toons look more “normal” …. Cough cough reintroduction of a rez delay and defaulted to 5100 on MQ2Rez.

 

[ChatWithThisName]

Be careful sharing wonderful stories like this otherwise the ‘peanut’ gallery might lobby for delays or random mis-casting to make toons look more “normal” …. Cough cough reintroduction of a rez delay and defaulted to 5100 on MQ2Rez.

The answer would be no :-)

 

[Hylander]

The answer would be no :-)

Lovin’ your work Chat !

 

[burdsjm]

Shamans will always be a top healer on raid parses. Squall with gift is amazing. You will heal more if you don’t add tanks to your extended targets. Sounds counterproductive but you’re going to cast squalls more than reckless which is 54x better.

 

[ToeJamSamy]

Shamans will always be a top healer on raid parses. Squall with gift is amazing. You will heal more if you don’t add tanks to your extended targets. Sounds counterproductive but you’re going to cast squalls more than reckless which is 54x better.

sounds like his fellow "raiding shaman" should perhaps learn that. I must say though, last i raided shaman were never top healers, usually fell behind pallies as well as clr/dru, but that was 15levels, 8ish yrs and expansions and 2 corporate changes ago. There will always be plenty of longterm raiders who arent particularly talented players (or even humans id wager) who will 1: never improve no matter what theyve been shown (can only learn if you want to. willful ignorance is the worst) 2: get jealous of everyone that outperforms them, especially boxes, even though they refuse to try any selfimprovement (again, likely the same irl) and/or 3: dont give a flying fuck about their performance and make up excuses or laccusations, or lay blame (i live with people like that- makes serial murder more and more appetizing lol)

I wouldnt worry much. Unless you're in one of the major guilds (and you'd likely never get asked to box a shaman in such a guild) the quality of your performance is never indicative of your methods, just your peers' lack of understanding or motivation. I was raidleader, offtank (though often maintank because most our wars kinda sucked and splat if the best one wasnt there that night) top tanking and parsing sk AND boxed a ranger for anything i didnt have to move for emotes- no mq no nothing, just my 2 hands and 2 computers. But, every single raid i brought both toons, both were in the top 5-7 dps. (Oh, and sometimes id have my druid too- 2 hands 3 cmputers, who id raided in that guild long before, and she would be in top 3 healparse- but the GOOD clerics would be miles ahead while ther est sucked and sulked)A player's personality, philosophy, etc irl is much mroe indicative of their potential ingame than their use or disuse of ...programs... And any resentment or jealousy or accusations that follow are usually completely independent of actual evidence even if you ARE using. The 5' 400lb kid in gym class who cant run a lap is often gonna accuse or assume every jock on the team is juicing, when likely none are (and at worst, unless in particularly competitive schools, it's all 100% legal otc crap like creatine and tribulus) and those that arent bitterly biased, arent often going to even have it cross their minds unless serious evidence arises.

ignore the assholes. a truly good player will never accuse without glaring evidence- even if they suspect it- and instead push themselves to outperform you, not try to bring you and eveyone else down to their level. ugh, sounds like politics lol

 

[Many_Whelps]

sounds like his fellow "raiding shaman" should perhaps learn that. I must say though, last i raided shaman were never top healers, usually fell behind pallies as well as clr/dru, but that was 15levels, 8ish yrs and expansions and 2 corporate changes ago.

Shaman are def top of the parse for raw healing simply because they can do do squalls all day, every day. The clerics job is to keep tanks alive, the shaman's job is keep everyone else alive. Usually you'll have your best cleric out heal the bottom performing shaman, but a well played shaman will top an equally well played cleric in raw HP healed. However, that can depend heavily on the event and how much AOE damage the raid is taking. More AE damage means more for the shaman to cover.

There will always be plenty of longterm raiders who arent particularly talented players (or even humans id wager) who will 1: never improve no matter what theyve been shown (can only learn if you want to. willful ignorance is the worst)

Oh we definitely have people in this category. "I've been doing it this way for 15 years and it's been just fine. Why should I change now?" has been told to our raid leader many many times over the years. We're not top end, by any means, although we are on current xpac content and our dilemma is that if we run these people off, we won't have a full raid force and we're not exactly attracting a lot of new talent to raid with us to take their spot.

 

[Sic]

"I've been doing it this way for 15 years.

had someone tell me with mq2bst that they had mained a bstlord for 21 years (hadn't been out that long yet), and despite his raid burn going from manual play at 800k to 1.2M, he didn't like it --- "mains" are sincerely one of the harder parts of doing these "we have made the choices for you" class plugins.

 

[Many_Whelps]

"mains" are sincerely one of the harder parts of doing these "we have made the choices for you" class plugins.

There are too many EQ players who think a class should conform to the play style they imagine in their heads rather than change their play to follow the meta-gaming direction that the devs are taking the class.

 

[Knightly]

I don't think it's necessarily that, Manywhelps, but more that when you optimize for DPS -- you get DPS. When you main a character, you are probably not (on any character except pure DPS) optimizing for DPS. So what happens, I think, and I think what Sic was alluding to -- is that people have a certain play style they want to keep when they have a main and that's not really what any of the "do it for me" automations are for.

It's easy to distill EQ into parses but the majority of the game takes place outside the parse. Given instancing, it's rare that the parse ever even matters. It's just another tool to help make judgment calls. But when you are a good player and main a character there are a lot of other things you do as part of your core class, you question why your automation tool doesn't play the way you do. (Actually, even bad players probably do this, they just happen to be wrong~)

But when writing the automation, even as customizable as some are, the author has to make judgment calls at the time of writing that are only informed at the time of running. So you end up with scenarios where people are asking "Why didn't the automation make this decision I would have made" and the answer is usually as simple as "because you weren't the one who wrote it."

 

[burdsjm]

The funny thing is I would consider myself one of the top 10 shaman in the game, and I changed my play style to fit the plugin after I realized it was doing better burst dps than I was doing.

 

[Sic]

I don't think it's necessarily that, Manywhelps, but more that when you optimize for DPS -- you get DPS. When you main a character, you are probably not (on any character except pure DPS) optimizing for DPS. So what happens, I think, and I think what Sic was alluding to -- is that people have a certain play style they want to keep when they have a main and that's not really what any of the "do it for me" automations are for.

It's easy to distill EQ into parses but the majority of the game takes place outside the parse. Given instancing, it's rare that the parse ever even matters. It's just another tool to help make judgment calls. But when you are a good player and main a character there are a lot of other things you do as part of your core class, you question why your automation tool doesn't play the way you do. (Actually, even bad players probably do this, they just happen to be wrong~)

But when writing the automation, even as customizable as some are, the author has to make judgment calls at the time of writing that are only informed at the time of running. So you end up with scenarios where people are asking "Why didn't the automation make this decision I would have made" and the answer is usually as simple as "because you weren't the one who wrote it."

Yup, 100%.

Unless you're fully scripting entire events with the specific way you, or your guild does it, most bots are just making choices off of what is in front of them at the time. Some players end up having specific jobs that aren't parsable.

Without full event scripting they don't known xyz is next pull, or pull afterwards and to use or save jkl for later, etc.

Mq2shaman and the other cwtn plug-ins aren't intended as people replacements, but to do "their job" based on information they're presented with.

This is exactly the same with simulation craft with wow, you can simulate different scenarios, but the simulations are in a vacuum (unless if you have events calculated with your guild's/group's strats.) They're intended to help you make choices, but a good player will learn to just use that information as another tool.

Parses don't mean much if you're not doing script, or causing other people to have to step outside of their role because you're not doing yours.

 

[Boring]

Shaman are def top of the parse for raw healing simply because they can do do squalls all day, every day. The clerics job is to keep tanks alive, the shaman's job is keep everyone else alive. Usually you'll have your best cleric out heal the bottom performing shaman, but a well played shaman will top an equally well played cleric in raw HP healed.

I raid current content with a top 10 guild and I actually outperform all clerics (except 1 badass cleric usually) and all the shaman regularly (sometimes one will beat me now and then but never have I been out healed by 2 shamans) in raid healing parse even while I am main healing the tank, rezzing and rebuffing the fallen. A *really good* cleric will out heal all shammies 85% of the time on heal parse if using AOEs in between direct tank healing. (I AOE heal a LOT). As a side note, I do NOT use MQ2Cleric during raids.

 

[burdsjm]

I raid current content with a top 10 guild and I actually outperform all clerics (except 1 badass cleric usually) and all the shaman regularly (sometimes one will beat me now and then but never have I been out healed by 2 shamans) in raid healing parse even while I am main healing the tank, rezzing and rebuffing the fallen. A *really good* cleric will out heal all shammies 85% of the time on heal parse if using AOEs in between direct tank healing. (I AOE heal a LOT). As a side note, I do NOT use MQ2Cleric during raids.

I have been on join raids and raided with 3 top raiding guilds and if a cleric is in the top 3 there is an issue with your shaman.

Edit.
Unless they are censure/splashing.

 

[Boring]

I have been on join raids and raided with 3 top raiding guilds and if a cleric is in the top 3 there is an issue with your shaman.

Edit.
Unless they are censure/splashing.

Or your clerics need to step up their game /wink

 

[Cannabliss1987]

So whats up with this things heals? They are kinda lacking. Kept reading about how it can solo heal group content but its too busy targeting the mobs casting nonsense and delaying the heals.
Its set to Heal Stance, ALL dps spells are unchecked, EVERYTHING is unchecked except AutostandOnDuck, UsePreincarination, UseCanniSpell. Mending MA set to 98, recklessMA set to 95. Yet its still targeting mobs and trying to cast shit. How do i make it Heal only as the Heal Stance reads? I mean if we wanted to do other things besides heal would we not set it to Hybrid and check the according boxes?

 

[Sic]

So whats up with this things heals? They are kinda lacking. Kept reading about how it can solo heal group content but its too busy targeting the mobs casting nonsense and delaying the heals.
Its set to Heal Stance, ALL dps spells are unchecked, EVERYTHING is unchecked except AutostandOnDuck, UsePreincarination, UseCanniSpell. Mending MA set to 98, recklessMA set to 95. Yet its still targeting mobs and trying to cast shit. How do i make it Heal only as the Heal Stance reads? I mean if we wanted to do other things besides heal would we not set it to Hybrid and check the according boxes?

Q. What is stance?
A. Stance are options for what kind of spell lineup to load automagically. currently: 0 is heal focused, 1 is hybrid heal/dps, and 2 is dps

Stances:
(Stance change your spell loadout, not behavior)
/shm stance - 0, 1, 2 - healing, hybrid, dps

"Stance" is your spell loadout - it doesn't change any behavior or priority.

Heals are checked before anything else.

Mending? are you low lvl? We don't use the mending line at current game because it is poop. Since you mentioned mending I should point out if you're sub like 90s (and even up to 100s) shammies aren't really intended to be solo healers. They struggle, and struggle hard.

If you are turning off usenukes and usesquall, you're really hurting yourself in the heal dept. (assuming you're the level that you have squall - because again you mentioned mending)

When you say "cast shit" what specifically do you mean?

turning off UseNukes will stop nuking
turning off usedots will stop dots
turning off usemalo will stop single target malo
turning off usemaloaoe will stop aoe malo
turning off useslow will stop single target slow
turning off useslowaoe will stop aoe slow

This is what i normally run with - I've done all cov/tov/tbl group content in all 3 "stances" but stuff dies to fast to bother, so i stay in heal "stance".
Again to reiterate - stance is only your loadout, not your behavior


If you're really "EVERYTHING is unchecked except AutostandOnDuck, UsePreincarination, UseCanniSpell" then you're really screwing up there as well as you're skipping stuff that is useful to keep your toons alive and going.

like rez, ancestralaid, responsive/attentive, squall (as mentioned) - with usenuke for glacial)

if you're current-game I also suggest not using usecannispell as it is a waste of a spellgem slot.

I would also ensure you have your tank assigned as MA in your group window

 

[Sic]

MQ2Shaman FAQ
MQ2Shaman Vid

 

[Cannabliss1987]

As i said i unhecked everything because it was casting things other than heals when it needed to heal. It uses Mending on its own, im not telling it to. So if its using it, when you say it should not, thats not a problem on my end to fix.

 

[Cannabliss1987]

Also ive never left Rez on, or RezCall because it doesnt use it in the first place lol. Ive sat for 20+ mins with corpses in front of it, nothing.

 

[Sic]

As i said i unhecked everything because it was casting things other than heals when it needed to heal. It uses Mending on its own, im not telling it to. So if its using it, when you say it should not, thats not a problem on my end to fix.

?

You must not have read what i posted, because you didn't answer the question about if you were low lvl.

We don't memorize mending after at all after like 95.

Also ive never left Rez on, or RezCall because it doesnt use it in the first place lol. Ive sat for 20+ mins with corpses in front of it, nothing.

it absolutely does. I would also suggest checking that you don't have a broken custom UI. Every person who has had issues with regular rezzes has been because their custom UI didn't properly display their state.

MQ2Shaman FAQ:
Q. It isn't rezzing out of combat - Rejuvenation of Spirit AA?!
A. Keep in mind, Rejuvenation of Spirit requires out of combat AND fast regen, not just out-of-combat. This also requires your UI to ACTUALLY have the fast regen information, because this is where mq2 gets your combat state from. If you don't report back correct information when you /echo ${Me.CombatState} then you might want to consider updating your UI. Otherwise we don't know you are in fast regen.

I'm sorry you're having issues, It doesn't sound like you really gave much thought to what i posted for you.

If you would like a refund let me know.

 

[Sic]

Also worth checking out > Getting Started with CWTN Plugins <

 

[burdsjm]

Post a screenshot of the spells it’s casting and what level you are.

 

[burdsjm]

Also ive never left Rez on, or RezCall because it doesnt use it in the first place lol. Ive sat for 20+ mins with corpses in front of it, nothing.

Did you get it working? If you can take a screenshot of your UI, I can help figure out what’s going on.

 

[ChatWithThisName]

Well we tried to help but weren't getting any answers to the questions we were asking, just repeated it wasn't doing things he/she expected it to do. I think once they're able to answer some of the questions we've asked we can move forward with assisting them.

I'm sure they're 100% positive there's something wrong with the plugin and has nothing to do with their setup, but since nobody else is having the issue we're trying to use the process of elimination to assist them. But until they help us help them by answering the questions, we're not going to be able to help them and I'd rather not beg them to answer the questions. So I'd rather just move on from bumping the thread for them until they're ready to help troubleshoot their issue.

 

[Redbot]

Redbot updated MQ2Shaman with a new update entry:

5/10/2021

- Internal Cleanup
- Adjusted some extra unnecessary buff checking.
-- This helps lower additional mq2cwtnbuff file reads.
- Corrected an issue where trying to cure curses with Blood of Nadox and Blood of Avoling.
- Fixed an issue where we would autoinventory coin.
-- Don't ask. :p
- Rezzing on XTarget now correctly checks range for /corpse.
- Corrected issue that mainly affects Duration heals which was intended to check the buff status...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[ventrik]

Doesn't appear to be using "Tiny Terror" for group shrink when available, it's using single target.

 

[Sic]

Doesn't appear to be using "Tiny Terror" for group shrink when available, it's using single target.

k

 

[Redbot]

Redbot updated MQ2Shaman with a new update entry:

5/19/2021

- Lupine Spirit AA fix.
- Added "Tiny Terror" to Shrink spell group.
- Various additional cleanup.
-- Cleaned up some buff checking to happen after verifying we need it and it is available.
--- This further reduces our checks in our buff file if we don't need that information right this moment.

Read the rest of this update entry...