Question - Looking to start over, and go bigger.... Need input from multi-team boxers.

[Hulda99]

Looking to start over, and go bigger.... Need input from multi-team boxers.

Background: Started EQ in April 1999. Did my first "true-box" in 2000, with 4 computers and a KVM switch. I know 6-box (MQ2/KA) fairly well.

Thinking I'd like to "experience" the game in a bigger way. Long term commitment.

So, the question is: is more, better? And worth the trouble?

1. Max group count you have done, and did you enjoy it? (12?, 24? more?)
2. If you could add to your group count, would you? And why? (ignoring hardware costs, etc.)
3. FTP, or Subscription? If subscription, what's the primary advantage for you?
4. Server type? Live, Test, or TLP (Ragefire/LockJaw) and why?
5. Anything else I need to think about?

I'd appreciate any comments or insights you have.

 

[microscope]

1) I did 24 boxing, it was fun for a short time but ends up being more like a job than it is fun. Also when I was doing it the content was easier to handle, I heard that the high level raid content now would be hard to box. A good single group can do about 95% of the game, so I am sticking with that. I don't really enjoy boxing a group that much, MQ2 or otherwise. The problem is that you don't really get to play anything, you mostly just guide them to a camp, and sit back while they kill everything in sight with no input. The most fun for me is focusing on a single character in a group of real people, but to do that in EQ Live, you need to be max level and I am a long way off that, so that's why I am boxing a group, to make it easier to get to the end game.

2) Not really. A single group is a lot more manageable. They log in and zone quickly, I have fewer to worry about getting stuck etc. Also there is some sort of diminishing returns with multiple groups, because for as much advantage as it gives you, you get increased amount of things you need to do. Gearing up 12-24 characters is a huge job. One tidy group that you focus on is a lot easier. Also cost is important to me, you really need to have subscriptions at the high levels in Live, if only occasionally to get all the AAs. So 6 subscriptions and 6 expansions really adds up! I wouldn't want to go more than that.

3) FTP as long as you can cope. I am getting close to 100 and 5 of my characters are still F2P. My tank I bought a sub for one time to get a bunch of AA autogrants, but they didn't seem to make that much difference really. Getting him a full set of good gear was far more important. I plan to subscribe all of them at 100 though, for auto grants and to get more AAs beyond that. Other than AAs, there is no advantage for me. I have 1 silver account so I can see chat from that which is good enough. I miss using the Bazaar but I am too lazy to go there and leave a character overnight and I doubt my junk would sell that fast anyway, so I don't really care. I will try it sometime once I am higher level and have some 105+ gear to sell. There is zero interest for my level 90 ish items I got from The Dream or whatever.

4) I went with Live because I like the high levels, and I don't know them well so it is all fresh to me. And if I am gonna box, I prefer to do 6 than fewer, and if I am doing 6, I didn't want to have to pay 6 subscriptions for many months while levelling up, and then many more months once I get to the end game and start doing raiding and stuff.

5) You could check out PEQ, I played on that for a year or two, and you can box as many as you want and macroquest as much as you want (except active hacks). The content only goes up to OOW or something but it still a lot to do and raiding all that previous content with your own automated raid force is a fun journey. And it costs nothing. I did 24 box on my single PC with no extra hardware. (Except me buying some more RAM). So maybe you could try it out and if you love it but want more to do, start on Live instead.

 

[saar]

there is a service on FV that you can get a test copy with all the latest raid gear and weapons for a toon. doing that for a group could get you a start on the test server. Test server, your accounts are all gold and dont need to pay to play. I have been debating moving my guild force over to test with that service to gear some other boxes.

 

[LurkMcGurk]

I've done up to a 54man raid but I typically box 24 when I play now. As other posters said, boxing 54 is stressful and it takes forever to gear them all/you quickly realize that if you downsize your team and focus on just 24 chars, gear them with good gear and play them to the best of your ability, it's better than half assing 54.

I keep my tanks Gold but every other char is Silver, I krono to max AAs and buy Rk II spells etc etc.


If you don't plan to do current raid content - you'll have the most fun using MQ2 and boxing 18 - 24 chars. With that amount of characters you'll lay waste to almost every zone in the game and you can make stupid mistakes without wiping. IE,with 24 characters you can basically "wipe" on a named and then beat him down with chain rezzing characters and having them hit him a few times until they die. Since you have so many characters the named just wont be able to kill your group as fast as you can keep rezzing. It's pretty funny but yea, more chars simplifies everything.


If you plan to box current content raids that will change the dynamics a bit. You'll need to actually get 'good' on every class and put in more effort than just turning on Kissassist. Kissassist does about 50% less damage than a real player when burning and you'll notice that BIG TIME when raiding. Other people here argue the point with me constantly but, you won't be able to do current content raids if all you do is just turn on Kissassist. It does too little damage to be effective on a raid team and it's easily proveable/verifyable by having a real player DPS alongside a Kissassist bot using the same abilities. The real player will attack 2 maybe 3 times faster.



Anyway, if raiding isn't a concern of yours then play whatever classes you want, just make 1 healer per group and have a Warrior main tank. Kissassist will make the entire game a billion times easier and more enjoyable for you. It's a very easy to use and noob friendly bot.


I recommend a live server otherwise you'll have to pay a monthly sub every single month to play which gets old fast on a larger box team. You'll feel like if you aren't playing all your chars at the same time you're wasting money and it just ruins the enjoyment for me. But, that's just me.

 

[KingArthur]

I've done up to a 54man raid but I typically box 24 when I play now. As other posters said, boxing 54 is stressful and it takes forever to gear them all/you quickly realize that if you downsize your team and focus on just 24 chars, gear them with good gear and play them to the best of your ability, it's better than half assing 54.

I keep my tanks Gold but every other char is Silver, I krono to max AAs and buy Rk II spells etc etc.


If you don't plan to do current raid content - you'll have the most fun using MQ2 and boxing 18 - 24 chars. With that amount of characters you'll lay waste to almost every zone in the game and you can make stupid mistakes without wiping. IE,with 24 characters you can basically "wipe" on a named and then beat him down with chain rezzing characters and having them hit him a few times until they die. Since you have so many characters the named just wont be able to kill your group as fast as you can keep rezzing. It's pretty funny but yea, more chars simplifies everything.


If you plan to box current content raids that will change the dynamics a bit. You'll need to actually get 'good' on every class and put in more effort than just turning on Kissassist. Kissassist does about 50% less damage than a real player when burning and you'll notice that BIG TIME when raiding. Other people here argue the point with me constantly but, you won't be able to do current content raids if all you do is just turn on Kissassist. It does too little damage to be effective on a raid team and it's easily proveable/verifyable by having a real player DPS alongside a Kissassist bot using the same abilities. The real player will attack 2 maybe 3 times faster.



Anyway, if raiding isn't a concern of yours then play whatever classes you want, just make 1 healer per group and have a Warrior main tank. Kissassist will make the entire game a billion times easier and more enjoyable for you. It's a very easy to use and noob friendly bot.


I recommend a live server otherwise you'll have to pay a monthly sub every single month to play which gets old fast on a larger box team. You'll feel like if you aren't playing all your chars at the same time you're wasting money and it just ruins the enjoyment for me. But, that's just me.

That is why you need customized macro for raid. Not to bluff or what, I spent years on my own macros so it can handle raid boss/adds/emotes fast,accurate and also deals out insane dps.
I?ve got the perfect alliance rotation for all classes/instant grab raid adds/dps auto find adds and kill it based on your setting/chain stun rotation and lots more.
So with all that being said, I like to box as much as my internet and hardware permits and do the current content raid with a few rl friends. It?s super fun when you can obtain current raid gear all by yourself.



KA

 

[da Man]

the 1 thing i disagree with microscope is ur tank needs gold status and prestiege items especially augments / raid gear optional if doin group content. the rest can be f2p. the tank is the lynch pin of any group followed by healer then a lesser extent croud control finally dps. making the others casters lessens the gear that u need, a wiz will do dps no matter what gear he has and do it fairly well.

- - - Updated - - -

that all being said i 6 box and play my tank

 

[Akatora]

I actually leveled up 3 groups to 105 and test copied them from FV just for this reason, spent a few mill that I got through farming stuff to get the gear i needed/wanted and then /testcopied lol

there is a service on FV that you can get a test copy with all the latest raid gear and weapons for a toon. doing that for a group could get you a start on the test server. Test server, your accounts are all gold and dont need to pay to play. I have been debating moving my guild force over to test with that service to gear some other boxes.

 

[LurkMcGurk]

That is why you need customized macro for raid. Not to bluffing or what, I spent years on my own macros so it can handle raid boss/adds/emotes fast,accurate and also deals out insane dps.
I?ve got the perfect alliance rotation for all classes/instant grab raid adds/dps auto find adds and kill it based on your setting/chain stun rotation and lots more.
So with all that being said, I like to box as much as my internet and hardware permits and do the current content raid with a few rl friends. It?s super fun when you can obtain current raid gear all by yourself.



KA

Definitely if someone designs their own custom macro I bet it can be done, as you said. I just didn't want him to be discouraged if he did all that leveling only to find he couldn't kissassist all the raids down.. I know some people who have done that actually, it was a lot more common on the TLPs though than on live. I met a lot of people on Lockjaw that pulled half the DPS of everyone else since they only used Kissassist to play and that's it.

Designing your own custom macro is a large time investment (even moreso if you don't know the first thing about coding when you start with MQ2) which is why I generally warn people about this before they decide to start boxing a large team.

 

[Mugly]

If you are planning on multi grouping I would suggest Test Server. Low population server, gear and xp are easy. You don't have to worry about subbing any of your toons. I have 12 raid copies I can do just about any group content in the game, it cost me real dollars to get them because I bought the expacs on all accounts. I have 12 or 13 level 110's spread out over 8 accounts. I run a full group and 2 outside of the group. Test server is free expacs up till the one lower than the current expac, bonus xp, automatic granting of all veteran rewards, /testbuff which auto levels you to 25 with spells and gear.

 

[microscope]

the 1 thing i disagree with microscope is ur tank needs gold status and prestiege items especially augments / raid gear optional if doin group content. the rest can be f2p. the tank is the lynch pin of any group followed by healer then a lesser extent croud control finally dps. making the others casters lessens the gear that u need, a wiz will do dps no matter what gear he has and do it fairly well.

that all being said i 6 box and play my tank

I could live with that. I kinda hoped to get by with just "best in slot but not prestige" gear, but I don't really mind subscribing just my tank if I need to.

 

[eqtrader74]

I can run up to 18, but usually stick with a 6 group. I've added 1-2 extra DPS outside group in exp camps with fast respawn, up to 12 mini-raid for clearing tougher named camps and I've run 2x6 groups when I'm feeding Fellowship exp to PL toons.

Six works fine for most things plus you have a team you're used to when you want to do 6-man instances.

1. 6-18 toons
2. Yes, I love playing new 6 man combo's so I'm always theory-crafting better or weird groups to try.
3. Gold on tanks, silver/ftp on rest. 1 Krono burned per toon to get max AA around lvl 100.
4. Live server, had toons on it when I came back to game and they were doing a Heroic toon give-away so it worked. Progression seems cool, but don't think I have the time to start again.
5. The above comments cover the challenges beyond 6. Gearing new tanks is the biggest time-sink. DPS and healers seem to do fine in EoK T1 or Conflag gear.

Those that have done raiding/custom macros: Is KA slower due to it's complexity? Can you speed it up if you "=0" out the sections you want to skip during raiding or do you really have to start from scratch on a macro? Do conditions or fine tuning your ini/MQ2Melee help enough for raiding?

Some ini's from the combined ini section are very simple and some seem to have raid settings (holies/NetBots/auto-target certain spawns.) Does that make enough of a difference?

I'm still a long ways from raiding, but did have it in the back of my mind.

 

[Sum1]

I run enough for two full groups with all associated support classes. If I'm getting squirrelly I do have 15 or do total accounts, but two of those were started as just coth bitch and rogue drag bitch accounts, except now they're max level, max aa, decently geared toons lol ... oops.

I've been doing older raids with kiss and just zerging the content as I do fun stuff like gear up a lvl 85 heroic toon to help me PL. if I bumped from two full, viable groups to three I would definitely do a SK, healer, bard, zerk, zerk, zerk Group to up my dps ante

 

[KingArthur]

I run enough for two full groups with all associated support classes. If I?m getting squirrelly I do have 15 or do total accounts, but two of those were started as just coth bitch and rogue drag bitch accounts, except now they?re max level, max aa, decently geared toons lol ... oops.

I?ve been doing older raids with kiss and just zerging the content as I do fun stuff like gear up a lvl 85 heroic toon to help me PL. if I bumped from two full, viable groups to three I would definitely do a SK, healer, bard, zerk, zerk, zerk Group to up my dps ante

Beastlords offer a much better ADPS to zerker than bards.


KA

 

[rhb]

1. 18
2. eh.. maybe. If I had the time I'd probably try a 54 raid force.
3. FTP FTP FTP. Don't give DBG money unless you want to raid current content on live/tlp. My ftp tank can handle any group situation with ZERO augs and all ftp gear. (I did krono them and max AA tho, that's a req)
4. Both are fun, TLP gets boring to me though.
5. If you want to test your commitment and experience max EQ, pick a main and join a top 5 guild. Build a group out to support the main getting through all the previous xpacs progression (you'll pretty much have to if you want to stay in that guild). By the release of the new xpac, try raiding from lockout to lockout... that'll test ur eq mettle.

Raiding one (or two if you really have a lot of time) in a top tier guild is probably the most involved way to experience EQ. You'll have to go through every bit of group progression, learn every delicious golden buttery nook and cranny of that toon. Plus building a 6 box crew around that toon lets you do group progression on your own time, and let's you figure out how to best play the main in a group/raid situation.

If you're thinking more along the lines of max EQ on your own time, running through old group and raid content... I feel like lockjaw would be a good way to go. Can box as many as you like, server pop is low, content isn't too hard to do as a one man team.

If you're thinking current content but screw a guild I can do this on my own, the FV to /testcopy is a great way to go about raiding current content with your own crew. Boxing more than 6 (and especially boxing your own current xpac raids) on a live server can be hard to hide, and as much as I'm a proponent for not giving a shit about who sees me using MQ2 to do what I want in a video game... not everyone feels that way

 

[llarrswind]

If I was smart enough/had the knowledge to build custom macros to run 54 man raids, and I could do current level content holy shit i'd do it in a heart beat. That being said, I recently moved from boxing back to solo character play because I found myself constantly booting toons out of my group for guildies/friends/family. It's not terrible, though sometimes I do miss the 6 box, just fire it up and exp like a filthy whore.

 

[Sum1]

It?s super fun when you can obtain current raid gear all by yourself.

Ahhh... the old days of crushing current content raids using slayer/GK/monkbug... it was the most fun I had in EQ ;-)

- - - Updated - - -

Beastlords offer a much better ADPS to zerker than bards.


KA

How so? If you don't mind my asking?

 

[Synk]

1. 18 (but I have a 6 man team on live)
2. Not at this point, I think 18 is my max. It just becomes a constant hamster wheel at some point, MQ helps automate but some stuff you simply have to do and you can only do so much
3. All subbed, I lead one of the top raiding guilds on Ragefire and we all 12+ box so gotta be sub'ed to play there
4. TLP (but I do have a 6 man team on live)
5. I would definable disagree with folks saying Kiss can't keep up, but it does take a lot of research, tinkering, and setup. We also use a good bit of holyshits with our kiss setups typically to balance out where kiss falls short. Our raid parses are literally the best on the server, we flat out destroy all content in GoD and Omens (we were the #3 guild to kill OMM on the server despite raiding 2-3 days a week at most). Monks and Zerkers all break 3k dps reguarly on 2-4 minute fights. We run two 42 man splits of Anguish and we can kill Arch magus before he even casts his death touch with just 42, the game is a total joke if you have your stuff setup correctly.

I've had a lot of fun going from 6 to 12 and finally to 18. I'm not sure how long I'll keep all 18 going but on TLP it's definitely 'worth it' I think. Personally I just pay for my accounts but I know most of my guild are able to farm enough krono to keep all of their guys active without paying anything out of pocket.

I want to convince people to make live teams so we can test our luck there, but I'm fully aware that live content is significantly more difficult than TLP. TLP is , in my opinion, really stupid easy until TSS sadly.

 

[minniemmee24]

Beastlords offer a much better ADPS to zerker than bards.


KA

I desagree with that i have a max 110 bst and have compaired to a maxed out zerker and the numbers fall far short of a zerk.

 

[ihc385]

How so? If you don't mind my asking?

BST Dicho is GOD, A 45sec (with AA ) HHE every minute that destroys Quicktime and that weak ass overhaste aura! All the other effects are nice but HHE on melee is a game changer.

Bard - Quick Time VIII (Highest rank)
Target: Caster Group
Duration: 2m (20 ticks)
1: Decrease Casting Times by 0.25s
2: Limit Max Level: 110 (lose 100% per level)
3: Limit Type: Exclude Combat Skills
4: Limit Class: ALL
5: Decrease Weapon Delay by 15%
6: Increase Chance of Additional 2H Attack by 10% (2)
7: Increase Chance of Additional Primary 1H Attack by 10% (1)
8: Increase Chance of Additional Secondary 1H Attack by 10% (1)
9: Increase Chance to Hit by 90%
13: Increase ATK by 1368

Bst - Dichotomic Fury 1 (using the lowest rank to prove the point)
Slot 1: Increase Pet Chance to Flurry by 92%
Slot 2: Decrease Damage Shield Taken by 75
Slot 3: Increase Chance to Flurry by 38%
Slot 4: 25% Chance Per Combat Round to Rampage for 75% Damage
Slot 5: Increase Current Endurance by 922
Slot 6: Decrease Weapon Delay by 33.8%
Slot 8: Increase Current Mana by 3144
Slot 9: Increase Current Hit Points by 8648

And once the bards is on CD, the bst just keeps on casting it!

Edit:
Wanted to add in the "BIG" burn zerker ability
Ancient: Cry of Chaos
Classes: BER/65
Skill: Alteration (Combat Skill)
Endurance: 600
Target: Caster Group, MGB: Yes
AE Range: 150'
Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
Focusable: Yes
Casting: 0s, Recast: 30m, Timer: 9, Rest: 1.5s
Duration: 60s+ (10 ticks) Song, Dispelable: Yes
2: Decrease Weapon Delay by 11.3% <---- LOL?
11: Increase ATK by 60

 

[KingArthur]

I desagree with that i have a max 110 bst and have compaired to a maxed out zerker and the numbers fall far short of a zerk.

ADPS is not DPS


KA

 

[dannuic]

I desagree with that i have a max 110 bst and have compaired to a maxed out zerker and the numbers fall far short of a zerk.

He's talking about BST vs BRD and how they support BER.

 

[Razkle]

most days I run between 60 and 120 toons in 6 man groups.... I do a lot of wiz wiz beast and wiz wiz zerk with a war cleric and either a bard or chanter at the lead... aint broke don't fix it... I have over 300 max level toons, over a billion plat and more rares then I can count...

 

[llarrswind]

I need a sugar daddy like Razkle, thats all i'm saying.

 

[InvisigothMT]

The BL numbers for Dicho Fury sort of remind me of how OP the Bard's Dicho Psalm once was. I'd not get too use to having that if I were you though it'll be nice while it lasts

 

[aspire2008]

the 1 thing i disagree with microscope is ur tank needs gold status and prestiege items especially augments / raid gear optional if doin group content. the rest can be f2p. the tank is the lynch pin of any group followed by healer then a lesser extent croud control finally dps. making the others casters lessens the gear that u need, a wiz will do dps no matter what gear he has and do it fairly well.

- - - Updated - - -

that all being said i 6 box and play my tank

I actually have my puller (monk) on prestige as well as my warrior. Puller will take the 2nd most amount of hits as the tank if your tank is not the puller. Now this is completely dependent on play style. I chain pull always, which means I have to have a dedicated puller and leave the tank in camp. There's no way around not having the puller on prestige doing the current content. Those dots on the namers in RoS are ruthless.

 

[MaxD]

This all depends what you want to do with your other groups, do you want one main group that actually maxes out and then a couple of groups that dont buy expansions but just kinda max out and go farm stuff.

It can be tons and tons of work to go properly gear out 54 people.

 

[Tovin]

I’ve gone as high as 8-man, actively participating in raids alongside mostly non-boxers / bots. I’ve found anything over 6 is incredibly stressful and not worth the effort required to keep the characters current. A lot of group content is restricted to a max of 6 characters on live — group missions, group tasks, achievements, etc. For me, the game is most fun focusing exclusively on the group of 6 and making them as strong as possible. I’ve maxed all their tradeskills, done the Tears of Alaris on each, Coldain Prayer Shawl aug, you name it. If you’re willing to put in the effort, a “super group” of six is the way to go.

If you really want more characters, establish some additional accounts for buffs, bazaar, and occasionally raiding older content. But don’t focus on maxing them out or you’ll go insane and the game will become a ‘job’ !