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Question - In 2025, Does Starting Race and Deity Matter Anymore?

Joined
Jun 2, 2022
RedCents
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Hi all,

I have been gone for a while, and was thinking about throwing together a balanced group of classes I have never tried before - SHM, BRD, PAL, BER, MNK, to name a few.

I remember back in the early days of EverQuest there was a fair amount of early theory crafting to match the “ideal” race to each class. Also, there was one school of thought for easier traveling, to try and be Agnostic or Neutral race if at all possible. In 2025, do all those things matter anymore? Considering the level cap is well over 100, I would imagine over the long run all the starting attributes will more or less even out when you take into account the newer gear and hSTR, hDEX, hSTA, etc.

On a side note, would it be better if I used DIscord to toss these ideas around, that way I don’t jam up the forums?

Be well. Happy gaming.
 
not really.

dorfs are cool cause they do the tumble animation so if you can be a dorf, be a dorf.

enjoying your team and enjoying how they look and stuff is way more important for long term enjoyment imo

discord can be nicer for "back and forth conversation" if you're looking to chat - but nothing wrong with posting on the boards
 
bout the only thing race and deity matter anymore is for tradeskills. sense only gnomes can tinker and some spells require deity for stuff.
 
They matter if it makes you happy or you are playing on P99.

Edit: Large races get stuck on things and small races cant jump over stairs.
 
Only advantage nowadays is a smaller race for mobility. Other than that do what makes you happy and is fun to YOU.
 
I'm at the point now where unless the class demands it I make all my new toons drakkin just for simplicity sake. Thus far it hasn't caused me any issues.
 
I just wished that with the new class / race combination they would have done a Dark Elf Beastlord instead of Ranger. Make a Dark Elf Beastlord with a black raven or something for the pet.
 
I just wished that with the new class / race combination they would have done a Dark Elf Beastlord instead of Ranger. Make a Dark Elf Beastlord with a black raven or something for the pet.

How about a Hell Hound for a pet, or is that too demonic for a DE?
 
On a semi-tangent, has anyone ever tried to put together a balanced team using just one race?

I thought I came close with gnome, but gnome does not have BST as a choice, and I do like the utility of the BST class.
 
Short answer: No

Longer answer: not really... but...
Someone already mentioned tradeskills, there are a few things here where deity can make a difference but in the end those things don't really matter too much. The one spot where they might for the completionists are the recipes that require imbued stones. Certain gemstones can only be imbued by certain class/deity combos most of which are priest (shaman/cleric/specific) specific, I think wizards have the one outlier there.
all of THAT said, there is a way to get around this... a heroic priest class (character created at lvl 100 for sure, probably 85 heroic as well) comes with ALL of the imbue spells (20 at a time version) already scribed which means you can cast them. The spell scrolls themselves are the deity specific portion so you can get around that if you want to throw a heroic character or 2 at them (shaman/cleric combo should get all but 1 I beleive? maybe 2?)

Used to be that Ogres could not be stunned from frontal attacks so it was a good reason to make a ogre tank if you were going that route. I do not think this applies anymore. I know my ogre warrior DOES get stunned in current content.
 
Kinda, but not really. For stats, it does not matter, but for inate issues like ogre frontal stun, or what pets beastlords get it does. There are a few tradeskill recipies and race abilities, but over all, play races you like to look at!
 
On a semi-tangent, has anyone ever tried to put together a balanced team using just one race?

I thought I came close with gnome, but gnome does not have BST as a choice, and I do like the utility of the BST class.
Vah shir war/bst/zerk/rog/sham/bard right there
 
On a semi-tangent, has anyone ever tried to put together a balanced team using just one race?

I thought I came close with gnome, but gnome does not have BST as a choice, and I do like the utility of the BST class.
I have an all vah shir group
 
I have an all vah shir group

I guess the kitty cats are the only ones, if I wanted to fool around with a solo race group. Gnomes and Drakkins come close, but if I want the BST those two are no-go.

As an alternative I was thinking about a little folks group.

Gnome: SK, Enc, Wiz
Dorf: Clr, Rog

But yet again the BST would need to be a kitty cat or Barbie. Was thinking of Barbie to be non-traditional.

Be well.
 
You could string together a very solid DE group as well with your trinity being WAR/SK, Cleric, Ench and then fill it with int casters of your choice.
 
You could string together a very solid DE group as well with your trinity being WAR/SK, Cleric, Ench and then fill it with int casters of your choice.

Hmmm…

I do enjoy being able to see in all light levels, but unless they changed ultravision, the blue haze gets to me after a while.

Could throw in a wizzy and Necro for sure.
 
Humans, Vah Shir, Dark Elves, High Elves, Drakkin, Gnomes, Erudites. All hit the holy trinity, and have dps classes.

Half Elves, and Wood Elves rely on druid healing. I've never played one so don't know how they'd hold up healing.

Other races can work, but you're giving up on all cc unless you use an illusion and count that.

So there is a wide variety of races if you want to go all in on a single race group.

As for it mattering. Not that much. Like karana rangers get an easy path to 300 for fletching. Gnomes for tinkering. With the prevalance of faerune on helmets now the night vision thing isn't as big of a deal either. Iksar and troll regen aren't meaningful either. I doubt iksar ac bonus is enough to matter anymore either. Leaves them tubby bitches and their stun immunity, and I wouldn't pick an ogre for a tank just for that since you'll get help via aa's for that anyways (maybe tlp). Though if you pick gnome you're as wrong as dick cancer. ;)
 
I mean I went agnostic on all characters possible so when I did cultural armor for them I didn't have to do as many different types but since we don't really use that stuff anymore I don't think it'd really matter at all in the grand scheme of things.

Only TLP you can do a couple of different combos that make the most expensive weapons for first expansion etcs (Seafarers cutlass and such, and then the pottery range items) which requires being certain races and gods but other than that specific case I can't think of a reason it'd matter anymore
 
I'd say it definitely matters in some cases. I'd you're rolling a Shaman. The Troll still excels. The Iksar Monk and Necro still excel so does the Ogre Warrior. If you really want to level fast, nothing is faster than a Halfling Druid. I still favor the Troll SK and Beast Lord.
 
Humans, Vah Shir, Dark Elves, High Elves, Drakkin, Gnomes, Erudites. All hit the holy trinity, and have dps classes.

Half Elves, and Wood Elves rely on druid healing. I've never played one so don't know how they'd hold up healing.

Other races can work, but you're giving up on all cc unless you use an illusion and count that.

So there is a wide variety of races if you want to go all in on a single race group.

As for it mattering. Not that much. Like karana rangers get an easy path to 300 for fletching. Gnomes for tinkering. With the prevalance of faerune on helmets now the night vision thing isn't as big of a deal either. Iksar and troll regen aren't meaningful either. I doubt iksar ac bonus is enough to matter anymore either. Leaves them tubby bitches and their stun immunity, and I wouldn't pick an ogre for a tank just for that since you'll get help via aa's for that anyways (maybe tlp). Though if you pick gnome you're as wrong as dick cancer. ;)
half elf palis can supplement druid healing quite well but you loose some dps and they can have bards who can slot into a ton of rolls
 
Optimizing stats does not matter because of defiant armors. Your characters will easily be at the 255 cap in all stats long before you can raise your caps (assumes you start at level 1).
Race/deity seems to matter for a few quests and if you plan on doing any Old World content (again assumes you start at level 1 and want some nostalgia).
The only other case I can think of that hasn't been mentioned already is if you need a dedicated component farmer who needs tracking.
So, no. Race/class/deity optimization is not a thing anymore.
 
there is one thing. if youre rolling from lvl 1 and plan to do don prog you want them all mostly the same. you dont want an evil evil tank and the rest of your group is all good / good. it takes the same number of missions to swap out of evil evil to good good or the reverse as it does just getting to ally. neutral neutral can join any side and only be a couple of missions behind. i race changed in don on a tlp to line everyone up to be either evil evil or neutral neutral.

if you are heroicing them to atleast 85 then it doesnt matter.
 
Hi all,

I have been gone for a while, and was thinking about throwing together a balanced group of classes I have never tried before - SHM, BRD, PAL, BER, MNK, to name a few.

I remember back in the early days of EverQuest there was a fair amount of early theory crafting to match the “ideal” race to each class. Also, there was one school of thought for easier traveling, to try and be Agnostic or Neutral race if at all possible. In 2025, do all those things matter anymore? Considering the level cap is well over 100, I would imagine over the long run all the starting attributes will more or less even out when you take into account the newer gear and hSTR, hDEX, hSTA, etc.

On a side note, would it be better if I used DIscord to toss these ideas around, that way I don’t jam up the forums?

Be well. Happy gaming.
Very tall characters are a PITA on mounts. That's the biggest issue I have with my choices of chars - wish I picked smaller ones.
 
Very tall characters are a PITA on mounts. That's the biggest issue I have with my choices of chars - wish I picked smaller ones.
 
Are you starting on a TLP? This is a good race/class with some deity choices min max guide that someone shared prior to the Teek launch.

Early TLP Min-Max Race Choice.​

First off know that Starting stats are pretty low impact, generally if you're broke on a new server dumping points into Strength so you can carry a lot of vendor loot is more helpful than anything else. If you're gonna be able to afford weightless bags early and wear your armor without being overloaded then you can afford to worry about Int, Wis, Stamina, Agil, and Dex. Int and Wis early on are more impactful for classes that use mana than any other stat they can get.

One exception is Charisma. On any toon where you are going to be pulling a ton with Lull/Pacify it will save you from criitcal failures (pacify resists that actually agro the mob.) It is suprisingly very high impact in reducing critical lull failures. Probably the most high impact starting stat overall, but only applies to lull pullers. Also helps you get better prices from vendors so dovetails nicely with the strength meta.

Stamina is more HP which is always great and very early on it's a tough stat to get on gear whereas lots of gear has strength on it from the start. The downside is that at low levels it doesn't give much HP but it does improve as you level.

Dex and Agil are the lowest impact early on, unless your agil is so low (<75) that you take an AC penalty.

Racial innate abilities don't mean much for most classes. Some are particulary low impact. A few are nice-to-haves. But a few are pretty impactful. And since eventually you're going to be capped on every stat picking that erudite for higher starting Int will be completely worthless whereas your Dark Elf "Hide" skill won't be.​

Major Abilities:​

Ogre frontal stun immunity is definitely the highest impact racial ability and generally if your class can be an Ogre he probably should be.​

Halflings are the only race to get the Sneak ability. Occasionally very useful for instant indifferent faction with any NPC and sometimes even for actually sneaking past mobs! Really nice for classes that don't get invis, like clerics, warriors and later paladins.​

Iksars get a bonus to AC and Regen. The Regen is actually very impactful for Necros early on and more AC is always nice for any class but less valuable for tanks than ogre stun immunity.​

Halflings, Wood Elves and Dark Elves all get the Hide ability. Useful for AFK'ing as it's an unlimited duration invis as long as you don't move.​

Wood Elves and High Elves have the best origin point early game due to access to 1) the most popular early leveling zones, 2) the Nexus Spires during Luclin and 3) PoK Books that are very close to Kelethin and Felwithe.​

Once Frogloks are available they are generally the best Origin point for any class they can be.​

Only Gnomes can do the Tinkering Tradeskill so you have to be a gnome if you want to do Tinkering.​

Ogres, Trolls and Barbarians all get the ability "Slam", doesn't do much but it's an extra attack with a tiny amount of damage and chance to interupt casters.​

Wood Elves and Iksars get the Racial ability to Forage. Slightly useful for Iksars spending a lot of time in lands without access to merchants.​

Innoruuk Troll Shaman, Innoruuk Human Clerics, and Innoruuk Dark Elf Clerics can do a simple quest to get a clicky with unlimited charges of the lowest necro/sk snare.​

Trolls get racial regen like Iksar which is kinda nice for regenning back health from Cannibalize but combined with the Snare Clicky makes them a reasonable second choice for Shamans after Ogres. The Regen has Negligible impact for War/Sk unless you're soloing a lot which is trash exp on official servers compared to grouping.​

Small races like Gnome, Halfling, and Dwarf also have an advantage in that you typically don't need to worry about getting a shrink clicky or pots.​




Class by Class:​

Bard - Low impact. Wood Elves best Origin Point.

Beastlord - Ogre for frontal stun immunity or Iksar for AC Bonus.

Berserker - Ogre for frontal stun immunity.

Cleric - Halfling for Hide and Sneak. Dark Elf for Hide and easy Snare Clicky Quest. (Must Choose Innoruuk)

Druid - Halfling for Hide and Sneak.

Enchanter - Dark Elf for Hide or other for preferred Origin point.

Magician - Dark Elf for Hide or other for preferred Origin point.

Monk - Iksar for AC and Regen. (Humans are Cooler though and get better origin points and faction.)

Necromancer - Iksar for Regen. Initially high impact but eventually meaningless as you get raid gear.

Paladin - Low impact except Halfling (if avail) for Hide and Sneak. High Elf for best origin point. Dwarf for best starting stats.

Ranger - Low impact. Wood Elves best Origin Point.

Rogue - Low impact. Wood Elves best Origin Point. Gnome so you don't feel bad about not having a Mask of Tinkering.

Shadowknight - High Impact. Ogre for frontal stun immunity or distant second Iksar for AC Bonus.

Shaman - Ogre for frontal stun immunity or Iksar for AC Bonus and Regen or Troll for regen and easy Snare Clicky Quest. (Must Choose Innoruuk)

Warrior - High Impact. Ogre for frontal stun immunity or distant second Iksar for AC Bonus.

Wizard - Dark Elf for Hide or Gnome for Tinkering, The only class that Doesn't suffer from Dark Elf's terrible origin points.

tl:dr​

If you can be an ogre be an ogre. (Unless you're a shaman and really want regen and the ability to snare mobs with the worst snare in the game, then be an Innoruuk Troll.)

Pally, Cleric, Druid. Halflings get sneak and hide.

Dark Elf Int Casters get hide
at the cost of a crappy Origin point.

Dark Elf Innoruuk Clerics get Hide and Snare clicky neck at the cost of a crappy Origin point. (Human Innoruuk Clerics can also get the clicky Neck (and Paineel Fear Mask) with less terrible origin point and faction.)

Necros benefit a lot from Iksar Regen for a long time.

Wizards should be Dark Elves.


Origin points:​

GFay and Felwithe are the best early on and stay really good. Easy access to main early level dungeons, closest possible Luclin Spires, PoK Book in same zone as Kelethin and another PoK book right near Felwithe. Also BB docks are one zone away for quick access to Firionia Vie and Freeport areas.

Second best during classic/kunark is probably Freeport for access to EC tunnel and the docks to BB in Freeport and OT in Oasis and improves in Velious cause of N Ro Docks to Iceclad. Takes a Hit in Luclin cause of no Nexus Spires but there's plenty of Druids and Wizards in Commons to buy a port from.

Nothing changes much in Luclin except Erudites get access to a nearby Set of Luclin Spires.

Once PoP drops it's all about how far you have to run and whether you need to zone to get to the PoK Books.​

Froglok Village in Rathe Mountains, Wood Elves in GFay, North Qeynos Classes, and West Freeport Classes all have a PoK book in the same zone as their Origin point and are pretty much the best Origin points.

Lots of others are slightly worse but still above average, like Fewlithe Clerics and Paladins do have to zone once but it's a very short run to the zone line and the Pok book is very closeby outside.

Most others are like a medium run and zoning once, kind of annoying but not a huge deal. Like Rivervale, Cabilis East. Felwithe Int casters have to zone twice but both are very short runs.

The Worst is Basically anything in Neriak but especially third gate like Necros and SK's because they have to zone 3 times and then it's still a long run to the PoK book once you're in Nektulous. A close runner up is West Cabilis, zoning twice and running over canals with crap hanging overhead to get stuck on. 3rd worst is probably Ak'Anon, just feels like forever getting to the zone out and then you still have a way to go to get to the PoK book.​

There are a bunch of others that also require zoning more than once or just annoying cities to navigate like Paineel, Erudin, and most guild halls that are in the deeper parts of a multi zone city. Surefall is a zone-twice situation with a bit of a run but at least it's a straight line you can autorun and the Druid port is right inside the zone.

So if you care a lot about Origin Points that have a PoK book in the same zone:​

1 Kelethin

2 Rathe Mountains Frogs

3 North Qeynos Classes

4 West Freeport Classes
 
What is your source please? You said "someone shared" but provided no credit.

Are you starting on a TLP? This is a good race/class with some deity choices min max guide that someone shared prior to the Teek launch.

Early TLP Min-Max Race Choice.​

First off know that Starting stats are pretty low impact, generally if you're broke on a new server dumping points into Strength so you can carry a lot of vendor loot is more helpful than anything else. If you're gonna be able to afford weightless bags early and wear your armor without being overloaded then you can afford to worry about Int, Wis, Stamina, Agil, and Dex. Int and Wis early on are more impactful for classes that use mana than any other stat they can get.

One exception is Charisma. On any toon where you are going to be pulling a ton with Lull/Pacify it will save you from criitcal failures (pacify resists that actually agro the mob.) It is suprisingly very high impact in reducing critical lull failures. Probably the most high impact starting stat overall, but only applies to lull pullers. Also helps you get better prices from vendors so dovetails nicely with the strength meta.

Stamina is more HP which is always great and very early on it's a tough stat to get on gear whereas lots of gear has strength on it from the start. The downside is that at low levels it doesn't give much HP but it does improve as you level.

Dex and Agil are the lowest impact early on, unless your agil is so low (<75) that you take an AC penalty.

Racial innate abilities don't mean much for most classes. Some are particulary low impact. A few are nice-to-haves. But a few are pretty impactful. And since eventually you're going to be capped on every stat picking that erudite for higher starting Int will be completely worthless whereas your Dark Elf "Hide" skill won't be.​

Major Abilities:​

Ogre frontal stun immunity is definitely the highest impact racial ability and generally if your class can be an Ogre he probably should be.​

Halflings are the only race to get the Sneak ability. Occasionally very useful for instant indifferent faction with any NPC and sometimes even for actually sneaking past mobs! Really nice for classes that don't get invis, like clerics, warriors and later paladins.​

Iksars get a bonus to AC and Regen. The Regen is actually very impactful for Necros early on and more AC is always nice for any class but less valuable for tanks than ogre stun immunity.​

Halflings, Wood Elves and Dark Elves all get the Hide ability. Useful for AFK'ing as it's an unlimited duration invis as long as you don't move.​

Wood Elves and High Elves have the best origin point early game due to access to 1) the most popular early leveling zones, 2) the Nexus Spires during Luclin and 3) PoK Books that are very close to Kelethin and Felwithe.​

Once Frogloks are available they are generally the best Origin point for any class they can be.​

Only Gnomes can do the Tinkering Tradeskill so you have to be a gnome if you want to do Tinkering.​

Ogres, Trolls and Barbarians all get the ability "Slam", doesn't do much but it's an extra attack with a tiny amount of damage and chance to interupt casters.​

Wood Elves and Iksars get the Racial ability to Forage. Slightly useful for Iksars spending a lot of time in lands without access to merchants.​

Innoruuk Troll Shaman, Innoruuk Human Clerics, and Innoruuk Dark Elf Clerics can do a simple quest to get a clicky with unlimited charges of the lowest necro/sk snare.​

Trolls get racial regen like Iksar which is kinda nice for regenning back health from Cannibalize but combined with the Snare Clicky makes them a reasonable second choice for Shamans after Ogres. The Regen has Negligible impact for War/Sk unless you're soloing a lot which is trash exp on official servers compared to grouping.​

Small races like Gnome, Halfling, and Dwarf also have an advantage in that you typically don't need to worry about getting a shrink clicky or pots.​




Class by Class:​

Bard - Low impact. Wood Elves best Origin Point.

Beastlord - Ogre for frontal stun immunity or Iksar for AC Bonus.

Berserker - Ogre for frontal stun immunity.

Cleric - Halfling for Hide and Sneak. Dark Elf for Hide and easy Snare Clicky Quest. (Must Choose Innoruuk)

Druid - Halfling for Hide and Sneak.

Enchanter - Dark Elf for Hide or other for preferred Origin point.

Magician - Dark Elf for Hide or other for preferred Origin point.

Monk - Iksar for AC and Regen. (Humans are Cooler though and get better origin points and faction.)

Necromancer - Iksar for Regen. Initially high impact but eventually meaningless as you get raid gear.

Paladin - Low impact except Halfling (if avail) for Hide and Sneak. High Elf for best origin point. Dwarf for best starting stats.

Ranger - Low impact. Wood Elves best Origin Point.

Rogue - Low impact. Wood Elves best Origin Point. Gnome so you don't feel bad about not having a Mask of Tinkering.

Shadowknight - High Impact. Ogre for frontal stun immunity or distant second Iksar for AC Bonus.

Shaman - Ogre for frontal stun immunity or Iksar for AC Bonus and Regen or Troll for regen and easy Snare Clicky Quest. (Must Choose Innoruuk)

Warrior - High Impact. Ogre for frontal stun immunity or distant second Iksar for AC Bonus.

Wizard - Dark Elf for Hide or Gnome for Tinkering, The only class that Doesn't suffer from Dark Elf's terrible origin points.

tl:dr​

If you can be an ogre be an ogre. (Unless you're a shaman and really want regen and the ability to snare mobs with the worst snare in the game, then be an Innoruuk Troll.)

Pally, Cleric, Druid. Halflings get sneak and hide.

Dark Elf Int Casters get hide
at the cost of a crappy Origin point.

Dark Elf Innoruuk Clerics get Hide and Snare clicky neck at the cost of a crappy Origin point. (Human Innoruuk Clerics can also get the clicky Neck (and Paineel Fear Mask) with less terrible origin point and faction.)

Necros benefit a lot from Iksar Regen for a long time.

Wizards should be Dark Elves.


Origin points:​

GFay and Felwithe are the best early on and stay really good. Easy access to main early level dungeons, closest possible Luclin Spires, PoK Book in same zone as Kelethin and another PoK book right near Felwithe. Also BB docks are one zone away for quick access to Firionia Vie and Freeport areas.

Second best during classic/kunark is probably Freeport for access to EC tunnel and the docks to BB in Freeport and OT in Oasis and improves in Velious cause of N Ro Docks to Iceclad. Takes a Hit in Luclin cause of no Nexus Spires but there's plenty of Druids and Wizards in Commons to buy a port from.

Nothing changes much in Luclin except Erudites get access to a nearby Set of Luclin Spires.

Once PoP drops it's all about how far you have to run and whether you need to zone to get to the PoK Books.​

Froglok Village in Rathe Mountains, Wood Elves in GFay, North Qeynos Classes, and West Freeport Classes all have a PoK book in the same zone as their Origin point and are pretty much the best Origin points.

Lots of others are slightly worse but still above average, like Fewlithe Clerics and Paladins do have to zone once but it's a very short run to the zone line and the Pok book is very closeby outside.

Most others are like a medium run and zoning once, kind of annoying but not a huge deal. Like Rivervale, Cabilis East. Felwithe Int casters have to zone twice but both are very short runs.

The Worst is Basically anything in Neriak but especially third gate like Necros and SK's because they have to zone 3 times and then it's still a long run to the PoK book once you're in Nektulous. A close runner up is West Cabilis, zoning twice and running over canals with crap hanging overhead to get stuck on. 3rd worst is probably Ak'Anon, just feels like forever getting to the zone out and then you still have a way to go to get to the PoK book.​

There are a bunch of others that also require zoning more than once or just annoying cities to navigate like Paineel, Erudin, and most guild halls that are in the deeper parts of a multi zone city. Surefall is a zone-twice situation with a bit of a run but at least it's a straight line you can autorun and the Druid port is right inside the zone.

So if you care a lot about Origin Points that have a PoK book in the same zone:​

1 Kelethin

2 Rathe Mountains Frogs

3 North Qeynos Classes

4 West Freeport Classes
 
I don't know. I just cut and paste it into my research docs when I decided I was going to play on Teek. Teek is my first TLP so I took the OP at their word.
 
Question - In 2025, Does Starting Race and Deity Matter Anymore?

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