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Discussion - Why Do You Love Bards? (1 Viewer)

RobRenfro

RobRenfro

Level 2
Joined
Apr 12, 2023
RedCents
2,740¢
People love them some Bards. I don't. I can tell you why I don't.

1. The worst human players I've ever met in my life have always been Bards. Almost without exception.
2. I use a pretty simple system. Tanks gets best weapons and best armor. Casters get good armor for stats and who care what their weapon is as long as I can load up Mana Regen on it. Melee DPS get past expansion bazaar raid gear with +1 Endurance and frontline weapons. But Bard's need top tier armor and top tier weapons plus their Epic 2.0 They are a huge financial investment and time sink.
3. Because of my aversion to Bards I don't know anything about their song lines so that would be a further time investment.
4. I trust RGMercs to Run a Bard until a CTWN Plugin comes out but I don't see the benefit. My groups kill fast enough.

Please feel free to tell me why I am wrong about Bards being a waste of my time. I would like to hear some cogent points in favor of Bards. I don't have enough experience with them to know the positives.
 
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I like bards because they can do decent dps, pull responsibly if i want it, CC in a pinch and boost the dps of everyone else in the group. A very melee friendly buff class as an alternative to enchanters.

plus 1 button double invis, selos speed, pick lock. they can kite, slow, snare and boost my damage shields for PL groups.

I like both enchanters and bards. i have 2 groups and run one of them in each.

If you got gold accts and can properly gear a melee team then a bard is going to help them rip through things so much faster.
 
Bards are okay. I do like them, but not to the same degree as others do. Not because I discount their worthiness in groups, but because I just don't care for the whole song thing I suppose. Just doesn't do it for me, if that makes sense. I prefer spell casters or Melee Hybrids. Fun fact, I just starting running a bard in a new group just because I am curious how RGMercs runs it. So far it's still just...meh. But my group is only lvl. 94. So we'll see.

I did play one awhile back as well. One thing I do remember liking was Fading Memories. When I was puller for a group, it was a nice reset button on a bad pull or a necessary split at a camp.
 
Robren911 said:
People love them some Bards. I don't. I can tell you why I don't.

1. The worst human players I've ever met in my life have always been Bards. Almost without exception.
2. I use a pretty simple system. Tanks gets best weapons and best armor. Casters get good armor for stats and who care what their weapon is as long as I can load up Mana Regen on it. Melee DPS get past expansion bazaar raid gear with +1 Endurance and frontline weapons. But Bard's need top tier armor and top tier weapons plus their Epic 2.0 They are a huge financial investment and time sink.
3. Because of my aversion to Bards I don't know anything about their song lines so that would be a further time investment.
4. I trust RGMercs to Run a Bard until a CTWN Plugin comes out but I don't see the benefit. My groups kill fast enough.

Please feel free to tell me why I am wrong about Bards being a waste of my time. I would like to here some cogent points in favor of Bards.
Click to expand...
Tom Hardy Bait GIF
 
Love: Huge boost to dps for both melee and casters, versatile, cc if i want it, run speed boost, elite pullers.
Hate: Most of the automation that currently exists for bards does them a massive disservice.
 
just today i was getting AA on a new toon in a NoS grind instance. and opted to run a cleric enc and necro for res and some more positive cc ... i hadnt used my 120 enchanter a whole for much more than a buffbot in our GGH or before we raid etc. being unsure of how well my new tank would handle an NoS zone i was amazed on two things. first being how well the cwtn enchanter plug works and than secondly how solid the cc and buffing was . mt dps slipped a little bit gruopwise but the ssafety net of running an enchanter was really awesome.

ill definitely be using it more for tougher situations. it was fun. definitely realise how situational the two classes can be. but if the bard plug works as well as every other cwtn/sic plug made ill have to re-evaluate this post once more lol.
 
I have to ask how can you not love troubadour's synergy going off 225k damage on any instaspell or melee attack and you get it everytime a bard hits insult or nords.
ontop of the spell or melee attack itself for the whole group man thats lots and lots of dps
 
Vedaire said:
I have to ask how can you not love troubadour's synergy going off 225k damage on any instaspell or melee attack and you get it everytime a bard hits insult or nords.
ontop of the spell or melee attack itself for the whole group man thats lots and lots of dps
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Nord/Sogram double taps for the win!

Doc James said:
I'm just waiting for some of the die hard Bard players to come in here intense like....


View attachment 50039
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I mean don't get me wrong I have 7 of them in one raid force and 8 in the other ;)
 
love，2 reasons

1st whenever my bard died he raises up and begin singing with no mana problems lol

2nd, check laggy and server status using song effects in guild lobby lol
 
Ive raid lead throughout years across live and many TLPs -Having 1 good bard is essential. Tend to find in a guild, half the bards are boxed, the other half are pretty terrible but usually always have at least 1 good player who can pull etc
 
Bards are really good when done right. I think it's their versatility that I like the most. The runspeed, double invis, make traveling a breeze (and very quick). The haste/overhaste, procs, mana regen, fierce eye, epic, etc etc..they're amazing for burns, even in group content. Then there's the crowd control, the ae mezzing and even single target are good. It's not quite as fast as an enchanter, but it's more reliable than I thought it would be and who really wants to split camps when you can just "leroy" your way through the zone/mission/task, etc? Bards are the swiss army knife of EQ, imo. You don't know you need them until you don't have one...I can't wait for the plugin. I heard the beta was pretty solid, and I expect when it actually goes live, it'll be pretty amazing.

When my bard dies (unless he's just standing in a stupid spot..it happens), the group usually is next. I've gotten careless and pull groups of mobs on purpose and just let the bard deal with the adds until my tank can get to them. Amazing in group content..I don't know much about current raiding, but I know tlp guilds like to have as many well played bards as they can find.
 
I'm not trying to bait hard core Bards. I don't know enough about Bards to even discuss them really. One of my friends insisted I roll a Bard. I would like to understand what benefit it brings to my boxing setup. I may have worded it poorly. I understand the drawbbacks, I was just hoping some folks would point out the positives. I thank you for doing so.
 
For me bards are an invaluable tool for my melee groups. The 2x invis and selos makes moving my groups around a breeze. The added dps is decent and CC is beneficial. BUT, without automation I don't think I would ever play a bard. Hell I don't even give my bards food/drink yet they keep me trucking along.
 
Robren911 said:
I'm not trying to bait hard core Bards. I don't know enough about Bards to even discuss them really. One of my friends insisted I roll a Bard. I would like to understand what benefit it brings to my boxing setup. I may have worded it poorly. I understand the drawbbacks, I was just hoping some folks would point out the positives. I thank you for doing so.
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Honestly it’s rather simple. Bards add massive ADPS. I’ll have to actually parse the difference but it’s roughly 30% more overall group dps with a bard than without. I‘ve got almost every group combination imaginable at max level in TOL t2 raid gear.

The simple truth is while the ench is a powerhouse at CC, they are weak in terms of ADPS. The CWTN plugin may be great but there is a more than strong bard KA ini for all modern levels.

Bard epic 2.0 (which is super easy to do btw I have like 8 of them) + fierce eye alone is probably enough justification to just having the permenent crit advantages. Throw in songs, synergy. IT’s a no brainer.

Simple truth is there is really no replacement for brd/bst combo in any group for ADPS.
 
I love bards. They are basically the group modifier. A well played bard is changing songs for group composition, then twisting songs/instruments/weapons for best DPS while mostly boosting the entire rest of the group.
Poorly played bards are just a waste.
 
Biggest reason:
- Force multiplier - Epic + songs make your caster or melee dps group better.
- Run speed - I'm all melee so no TL'ing around. Got to hoof it and bard speed makes that suck a little less.
- Double invis - Single cast , fast refresh, group is ready to move out.

Bard epic is one of the easiest to do. Took me about 6 hrs from start to finish. Compare that to shaman epic which was about 6 days of 2-3 hours each.

Bards also have one of the smallest AA pools. Will max out before the rest of your team.

You get what you put in. No effort, minimal reward.
 
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As a hardcore Bard main player I'm sort of wondering if the OP mains a Shaman. The comment about terrible people playing Bards made me smirk because over the years some of my worst conflicts in the group game were with Shaman players who were frankly rotten people with a chip on there shoulder and who did really stupid stuff like dropping dots and slows on mobs that were mezzed. Not just my mezzes either but Enchanters as well.

A well played Bard is just making everyone in the group better. Some classes like Shaman are really amazing and overpowered TBH but they don't play well with a wide variety of classes so group slots are dictated by what else is going on. Bards work with all other classes

Anyway, I'm not going to make silly threats toward the OP as implied by Doc James. Instead I'm going to compose an insulting satire and laugh at him
 
I remember the first time seeing an epic'd out bard and that that guy was the coolest looking dude. I have not played one past level 49. Having one in any of my groups was rare. Times in Velious getting a bard to escort you across zones. Getting one to max level would be amazing and something new for me. Haste, mana regen for the group, all good things.
 
Cresh Endo in RoV on bristlebane was a fucking amazing person, and I still think about how cool she was
 
InvisigothMT said:
As a hardcore Bard main player I'm sort of wondering if the OP mains a Shaman. The comment about terrible people playing Bards made me smirk because over the years some of my worst conflicts in the group game were with Shaman players who were frankly rotten people with a chip on there shoulder and who did really stupid stuff like dropping dots and slows on mobs that were mezzed. Not just my mezzes either but Enchanters as well.

A well played Bard is just making everyone in the group better. Some classes like Shaman are really amazing and overpowered TBH but they don't play well with a wide variety of classes so group slots are dictated by what else is going on. Bards work with all other classes

Anyway, I'm not going to make silly threats toward the OP as implied by Doc James. Instead I'm going to compose an insulting satire and laugh at him
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I agree I always say there are three kinds of Shaman The buffers who keep a timer on everything. The DPS Killer Shaman more of a soloer. And the just terrible who are bad at everything. I think the two worst human played classes I've experienced were bad Bards and bad Shaman. That's not to say all Bards or Shaman are bad. But we both certainly have our fair share of people who should probably find another class playing both our Bards and Shaman.
 
dewey2461 said:
You actually have two different plugins.

MQ2Twist
MQ2Medley

You just don't have a "easy button" plugin that does everything for you.
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I don't hink I ever said Bards were bad because they didn't have a CTWN Plugin. I have Rangers and Druids and Wizards that don't either. If you are trying to infer I need one Plugin to do everything. Since the stroke it really helps. I feel like a dunce most of the time. So I do appreciate the hard work put in By Sic and ChatsWithNoName on the Plugins. They have given me back something in EQ I thought I would never get back. A feeling of control despite the fact the PLugins do all the work. I love them. I think my post was poorly written in the first place. I wanted to state the negatives that kept me from playing Bards from my own experiences not to chase people off the class. IN hopes Bards would take the opportunity to counter-point. Show me why I should give Bards a better look. An Epic that takes 6 hours to do, an AA set that's easy to max but still beneficial. These were the kinds of things I wanted to learn as I roll my first Bard. I think I'm kind of fortunate that folks read between the lines and understood what Came out the first time wasn't the real heart of what I was trying to get at. That is truly a testament to the amazing thoughtful and insightful people on this forum. Who just know when to overlook me and when to pitch in.
 
Sic said:
Cresh Endo in RoV on bristlebane was a fucking amazing person, and I still think about how cool she was
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For me that's Mechy The Druid and Khrogulai the Pally on Karana. Just amazing players. Best I've ever seen. I didn't want to start a divisive post but I guess it reads that way and I'm sorry for that. I was just hoping I could say in brass tacks like an adult here are my issues. I want to roll a Bard can you folks tell me why I should?
 
Here's the thing about the Bard class, it's easy to set up as a basic no touch /melody character and a lot of bards are boxed by people who don't even understand what the songs do. Pretty useless and embarrassing for people who play Bards.

The next level up is the people that understand their songs a little bit and know that Aria, Fierce Eye and Epic click show a significant boost in group DPS

Finally getting near the high end are people who understand the importance of the Troubadour's Synergy AA as well and a whole list of AA's, clickies and combat abilities that should always be on cooldown.

That doesn't include crowd control, Selo's speed, or pulling though that's not as necessary these days

I keep a /note in game so I can pull up my lists of what's good in different situations.

All that stuff can make it difficult to write up plugins for all occasions which is why I for the most part manually run my Bard while the rest of the crew is automated
 
InvisigothMT said:
Here's the thing about the Bard class, it's easy to set up as a basic no touch /melody character and a lot of bards are boxed by people who don't even understand what the songs do. Pretty useless and embarrassing for people who play Bards.

The next level up is the people that understand their songs a little bit and know that Aria, Fierce Eye and Epic click show a significant boost in group DPS

Finally getting near the high end are people who understand the importance of the Troubadour's Synergy AA as well and a whole list of AA's, clickies and combat abilities that should always be on cooldown.

That doesn't include crowd control, Selo's speed, or pulling though that's not as necessary these days

I keep a /note in game so I can pull up my lists of what's good in different situations.

All that stuff can make it difficult to write up plugins for all occasions which is why I for the most part manually run my Bard while the rest of the crew is automated
Click to expand...

MQ2Medley is a really interesting plugin. You can do some interesting things, but you have to:
1 - Know what you want your bard to do.
2 - Write your own conditional checks.

Basically: You define a list of "things" in the order you want them done.

Ex: ( very simple two song "twist" )

[MQ2Medley-melee]

song1=Aria of Pli Xin Liako^24^1
song2=War March of Centien Xi Va Xakra^24^1

Command: /medley melee

This would "twist" Aria and War March once every 24s


What makes MQ2Medley really interesting:
#1 - Each frame the plugin checks the list of songs and plays the first one that is "ready"
#2 - Each spell has a recast timer so you can modify how long between casts
#3 - Each spell has a condition so you can control when it casts.

song#=[SPELL NAME]^[RECAST]^[Condition]


Here is more complex example:

[MQ2Medley-melee]

song1=possessed dreadstone minstrel's rapier^8^${Target.Type.Equal[NPC]} && (${Target.PctHPs}<98) && !${Target.Slowed.ID}
song2=Selo's Sonata^60^${Spell[Selo's Sonata].Stacks}
song3=Blade of Vesagran^120^${Target.Type.Equal[NPC]}&&${Target.PctHPs}<98&&(!${SpawnCount[group pc shaman radius 100]}||${Me.Song[Prophet's Gift of the Ruchu].ID})
song4=Aria of Pli Xin Liako^24^1
song5=War March of Centien Xi Va Xakra^24^1


What this does is ...
song1 = says use the item: "possessed dreadstone minstrel's rapier" once every 8 seconds *IF* the target is an NPC that is not slowed.
song2 = once every 60s go ahead and do Selo's.
song3 = Bit more complex: If there is a shaman in the group close to us then wait for their epic, otherwise go ahead and use it any time the targets hp are less than 98%


The down side is you have to constantly go into the INI file and update the song lists every time you get a new set of spells and the syntax for writing the conditions is not the most user friendly.
 
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