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Strategy - Where are we at in 2020 with best box groups?

Joined
May 25, 2011
RedCents
44¢
So, after my lovely affair with a Daybreak GM and my long, long, long ban..... I`m back and DBG Actually unbanned 1 of my toons, althought its a "Case by case" basis and won't unban my bystandard accounts but had no problem unbanning the one involved. I`m making a new crew after a 4 year break.... So far I have my Heroic 86sk and my decked out 95 Zerker. Heroic toons are back and I`m looking to build a squad. I`m not going to be attempting anything to crazy, just the normal leveling grid and farming old raid mobs (Play on FV) Below is my list of what I was going to chose - I know the bard with the chanter is iffy - Should i switch it up to another zerker and lose the chanter? Any thoughts? i know threads like these get started every year on whats the best box setup, I researched them all and didn't find anything definite. I do have another 95 Zerker that was freshly unbanned, just weary of using the tainted toon with a huge red flag.


SK
Zerker
Enchanter
Cleric
Wizard
Bard
 
Joined
Dec 4, 2016
RedCents
30¢
Personally I LOVE utility so I play Sk/clr/chanter/bard/mage/wiz. The buffs pumping into mage/wiz from chanter+bard more than make up the dps loss of 2 pure dps versus 3.

The highest DPS group in the game right now is War or SK /shaman/bard/zerker/zerker/zerker. The shaman can be swapped with cleric for better heals but you give up dps procs and buffs pumping to your zerkers. If your main goal is raiding old content then you have a solid group for utility and variety. I might switch enchanter with a mage for COTH.
 
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May 25, 2011
RedCents
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Oh, I don't want an enchanter plus bard - I need to swap one out, all depends on what - Bard i think would be better for overhaste with 2 zerkers, or whatever dps, or stick enc with wizzys idk
 
Joined
Dec 7, 2014
RedCents
11¢
I play sk, clr, shm, enc, mage, wiz. But, i have been debating switching out the chanter for a bard. Also thinking i might mess with a few different set ups with the heroics coming out!
 
Joined
Mar 19, 2019
RedCents
2,044¢
Latest expansion favours melee group for the missions because there's cases where DPS needs to be turned on/off the quicker the better. Other than that either:-

a) Max out caster or melee, or
b) Choose stuff you like

There's only a few classes that don't really shine when boxing (IMO) - Necro (fights too short in group game, DOT's a liability on some missions), Druid (others do what they do better), Monk (you'd only use it as DPS unless you "Main"ed it, and Zerkers are better). I'm pretty cool on BST's when you 6 box too, similar reason to Druid - mage has better pet, shaman has better buffs and heals, others dps better. Also, it's fun to say what I've just said in the "General" channel and watch a flame war.

Oh and Ranger, they just don't shine in a box group.
 

Saffron

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Joined
Jul 15, 2019
RedCents
785¢
SK BRD SHM BER BER BER with a CLR to swap out on one account for tougher encounters when heals aren't cutting it.
 
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
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627¢
War, Cleric, Bard, Beast, Zerk and Monk. With MQ2Monk set to PullerAssist, there is very little downtime, if any at all. It really is similar to chain pulling. The monk will out dps the Zerker on occasion but not that often. However the monk is always in the top 3 on dps. If you go with a heavy melee group, you must have a Beast in the group. If you don’t there will a lot of downtime. Beasts provide so much endurance for the group it is essentially a requirement to have them on that basis alone. (Plus their dps and buffs are solid).
 
Joined
May 31, 2018
RedCents
400¢
tank(any), healer(shm) can swap w cleric, bard, 2 zerks 1 bst
I feel the bst increases net dps of other 2 zerks that its worth it

Wondering how much better it would be to have different synergies vs stacking zerkers
 
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
RedCents
627¢
@dealings good question. Rogues and Monks are a pretty selfish class. Monks have an aura that grants a bonus to riposte, parry and block. Rogues have a group buff that increases accuracy but that is really it for those two classes. Shaman and beasts have similar buffs with a few exceptions. Shaman have Roar which is a dps proc and small heal. Beasts have endurance Regen and attack increase buffs, but those buffs don’t stack with ranger attack buffs, which would remove the ranger synergy. While I have not tried it, a possible group with the best synergy to enhance Zerker dps could be tank, shaman, bard, beast and Zerker X 2.
 
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
RedCents
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The issue with mixing a caster + melee group with a Bard is that you miss out on the full effect of the song line up. To be effective for a zerker/rogue/ranger, you'd want to sing melee related songs. But then you also need to sing songs for your casters, so you end up dividing yourself. When you're talking utility, as @ihurst9 said: Sk/clr/chanter/bard/mage/wiz is probably a lot of fun. Wiz for ports, Mage for coh, bard for speedy feets!

Previously I did a SK/ENC/MAG/Wiz/BL/CLR - the casters really benefit from each other with twincasts, chromatic haz, dicho, etc. My 4 box team that can handle pretty much anything (with group gear and lots of AA) is SK, ENC, MAG, Wiz + Wiz merc and Healer merc.
 
Joined
May 31, 2018
RedCents
400¢
tank, shaman, bard, beast and Zerker X 2
its my current favorite
I dont think you have to choose either or when it comes to shm and bsts, the adps and personal dps of a bst earns them a spot separate from shammies
Always wondered about ranger adps but if there are stacking issues , what are u gonna do
I does clear some air if the monk rogue class only benefit each other at best and benefit from others, so bottom line they aren't bringing good adps on top of their personal dps
 

Saffron

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War, Cleric, Bard, Beast, Zerk and Monk. With MQ2Monk set to PullerAssist, there is very little downtime, if any at all. It really is similar to chain pulling. The monk will out dps the Zerker on occasion but not that often. However the monk is always in the top 3 on dps. If you go with a heavy melee group, you must have a Beast in the group. If you don’t there will a lot of downtime. Beasts provide so much endurance for the group it is essentially a requirement to have them on that basis alone. (Plus their dps and buffs are solid).
I have zero downtime with my group. I don't know where you are getting this must have beast nonsense from.
 

Saffron

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It is merely my opinion on the matter. As the saying goes, "Opinions are like Saffron, everyone has one."
Wow. Right back at ya. Your comment "If you don't there will a lot of downtime" is ignorant and absolutely false. If you weren't talking out of the body part you so "cleverly" substituted my name for I wouldn't have said anything. If you don't know how to play any other characters that's fine. Saying there is no way to make a balanced group without a beast lord is silly.

I was expecting a reply on how you tried 50 different class combinations over days of gameplay and that's how you came to your conclusion. Or how I haven't ran my group long enough or in tough enough situations or something like that. I wasn't expecting a child's response from a playground though.
 

Saffron

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Jul 15, 2019
RedCents
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I have learned through life to never argue with a fool, since they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Keep throwing out insults. Show me your lack of intelligence and your inability to learn. Spend your life thinking you know more than everyone like how it is impossible to make a balanced group without a beast lord. Good job.
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
RedCents
306¢
@wildwilewoods Help me understand how there would be any downtime in your group even if you removed the BST? With the monk you have swift tails chant (which is group end regen). But, more importantly, all the melee characters have breather right? So, there shouldn’t be any end issues anyway.

The monk also adds Adps with his synergy. It’s something like a 30% bump with a liberal hit limit. Just FYI, because I think someone said monks have no adps.

@Saffron I mean am I wrong about all this? Maybe I’m missing something.
 

Smokeybear72

Only YOU can prevent forest fires !
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It's basically the same topic on this thread : https://www.redguides.com/community/threads/best-beastlord-group.70932/#post-403594

Here are my points on this topic :

Most folks on here don't talk about a group that you go back and do previous content with. The reason I bring this up is there is a huge difference in building a group to go out in the open and single pull on AFK, vs building a team to do content and gain Herioc Stats etc.

Most of the box groups that spot a Warrior will use a Chanter or main a puller Bard / monk and AFK the Warrior. In this set up the warrior is by far the easiest to box.
If you Main the tank, like alot of us, then the SK throughout all content has tools that neither Warrior or Pally has and frankly is fun as hell to play.
ToV obvsiously is undead so Pallys are getting some better love, but for most of the content, they swing a butter knife.

Personally I have built and went through content with several different groups, but the group I love and consistently destroy confidently with is:
SK - Fully Play with no Macro's ( Some use KISS for buffs, but it will consistently re-target you and cast self buffs at in-opportune times. ( Its possible to become better at MQ2 and other stuff to influence this, but I have not dove into it )
Cleric - Hands down the best healer , group heals , can rez in combat, group HP buffs etc. Group heal also cures.
----- When Tank is buff , can swap out for Shammy just farming trash and keep up well if u are keeping pulls down to 1 or 2 but duplicates BST funtionality and dont need mana regen
BST -SWISS Army knife..... Off tank, side puller, Spot healer ( with AA and gear can keep tank up if cleric dies on an SK- easy) Solid DPS , Buffs, Buffs, Buffs. and more buffs( Not quite Sham, Ranger, Bard, but plenty enough boost - TBL Dissident progession gives group proc buff that really makes the melee dps go nuts every 60 seconds )
Zerk - 1... even in Tier 1 non=prestige gear on Silver account will out DPS everything but a rogue
Zerk - 2... ....Decap isn't limited to human type mobs which is what restricts Ranger/Rogue

and finally.. I have a Chanter.

Auras, great DPS buffs ( offsets alot of BARD imo ) some DPS, absolute lockdown , cripple, slow, and runes if needed.

Parse a Warrior and Bard pulling and tanking which is single or 2 normally at max.. then parse an SK bringing back 6-10 mobs and having them parked where you dont stop dps.... ( Again play style dictates what you like, single pulls ../bleh :) )

Between the SK, BST feeding mana and endurance back, my zerkers usually never fall bellow 80%,

Overall the utility buffs of an Enchanter, BL, Cleric are terrific and it allows you to double invis the group except the SK, which can easily flop around / self change invis type instantly with AA's, to a camp or use Fellowship etc. ( Double invis is a great song/AA from a bard as utility, but this group has the buffs also )

Bards: Great class if played live can make a difference, but as a box.... just dont think the dps boost over a chanter overall is a time saver at all................. overhaste... 217%( Hopefully everyone has clicked an ACoF on there main melee boxers ) haste vs 225% haste... someone please find me a parse when mobs die in under 15 seconds where this really matters......, which is about the average on trash mobs for a main group.

I do have 7 accounts and can mix and match Shm/Bard for Cleric/Chanter or Bard/Rogue for Zerker/Chanter --- 7th account I have Bard/Mage/Ranger (Outside DPS or COTH, or forager etc )
----- When you start making new toons ALWAYS ALWAYS plan ahead of how to swap classes into your main box and stack them accordingly on your accounts or you will really hate yourself in 6 months !! ----

also --------------------------------------------------------------
There will be plenty of HA's and named that you will end up using both a cleric and shammy until your warrior is max AA, close to ideal Type 5 and Type 7 augs and have the gear, so I strongly encourage putting the shammy under a DPS .. basically anything other then the cleric.

Stacking accounts that I have
1. SK /Tank
2. Cleric
3. BL
4. Enchanter / Shammy - Shammy doesn't need crack and with secondary healing and his crazy slows you can tank 2-3 when CC isn't needed when you run with cleric.
Also both HP auras of Shammy and Cleric stack for the group which adds a TON of HP when you are leveling.
5. Zerker / Rogue / Wizzy --- utility DPS slot
6 Zerk/Monk/Druid
7- Bard / Mage / Ranger ( 7th Account )

Again, its your play-style and how fast you want to plow content and how many times you want to wipe and recover =P

Personally the functionality of a BL and Bard to a group doesn't stack and synergize as well as others, but most of us have level 100+ alts stacked across all our accounts trying to master where to put what classes until we settle on the one we want to main.
 

Saffron

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Joined
Jul 15, 2019
RedCents
785¢
I
@wildwilewoods Help me understand how there would be any downtime in your group even if you removed the BST? With the monk you have swift tails chant (which is group end regen). But, more importantly, all the melee characters have breather right? So, there shouldn’t be any end issues anyway.

The monk also adds Adps with his synergy. It’s something like a 30% bump with a liberal hit limit. Just FYI, because I think someone said monks have no adps.

@Saffron I mean am I wrong about all this? Maybe I’m missing something.
I only commented about the nonsense about any group without a BL will have a lot of downtime. Preferences beyond that are great and I like hearing what people like doing. I don't like when peeps spew BS and I do call that crap out as people asking for help don't need a bunch of misinformation confusing them.
 
Joined
Mar 19, 2019
RedCents
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Curious how a Rogue might fair into the mix now with IHC rogue and Chats Rogue ? for swapping out the 2nd zerker ?
I use both rogue methods (I wrote the ihc one but have the plugin) and neither will be as much dps as a zerker. But SOS is handy, and you never get rooted or blinded (which is manageable but a pain).
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
RedCents
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@Smokeybear72 i think WAR > SK when it comes to driving the tank. Warriors have developed so many great defensive abilities that stack very well over the years, I think it’s one of the more challenging classes to play correctly. People just look at the main defensive abilities and think, wow! So easy. Because of the lack of spells, you have so many combat abilities and aas to study if you want to play well.

Then with SK it’s just tap tap tap and ae aggro.. sounds pretty boring. Plus, the fact that 40% of some servers are probably SK.... meh. Live a little and play a warrior!
 

Saffron

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Curious how a Rogue might fair into the mix now with IHC rogue and Chats Rogue ? for swapping out the 2nd zerker ?
I think they would be pretty similar from what I have seen but a parse comparison would be cool to see. Rogues can put out some good deeps but on average you probably won't see a huge difference if similarly equipped and AA. I found that my zerks were easier to epic than my rogue.
 
Joined
Jan 20, 2013
RedCents
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I think they would be pretty similar from what I have seen but a parse comparison would be cool to see. Rogues can put out some good deeps but on average you probably won't see a huge difference if similarly equipped and AA. I found that my zerks were easier to epic than my rogue.
Equally geared zerker will out dps the rogue in group content just because of dicho/dissident but it has gotten closer in recent years. The key is the zerker needs his epic the rogue doesnt.
 

Smokeybear72

Only YOU can prevent forest fires !
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@Smokeybear72 i think WAR > SK when it comes to driving the tank. Warriors have developed so many great defensive abilities that stack very well over the years, I think it’s one of the more challenging classes to play correctly. People just look at the main defensive abilities and think, wow! So easy. Because of the lack of spells, you have so many combat abilities and aas to study if you want to play well.

Then with SK it’s just tap tap tap and ae aggro.. sounds pretty boring. Plus, the fact that 40% of some servers are probably SK.... meh. Live a little and play a warrior!
Boring is having 3 zerkers.. :)

I have only played a warrior to 110, but you sir might be the only person to say that playing an SK is boring compared to a Warrior that I have seen :lol:

Warriors are harder to kill and I agree are pretty badass when you get them built up, but I thought playing my warrior is just alot of button mashing. with no spells or pets its just not alot going on.

But honestly, I believe that which toon you tank really gets magnified with your supporting classes that you love to have with you and that is what you will hear from me consistently.

My take is if you start with an SK, you will learn to play a tank, a pet class, a puller /splitter , learning to use pet for this was even more fun and challengeing. So you get a taste of several other classes hybrids.


I started playing a Druid and Ranger years ago, so I guess I have always enjoyed the hybrid class.... curious did you start a Warrior or Rogue or NON-Hybrid / Pet Class first ?
 
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Started a WAR originally and it’s my main. Which I admit, makes me biased. If I wasn’t going to drive the toon, then I would go SK for the extra utility.

But if you are going to drive the toon, or make it your main then I’d go with the warrior. I think the warrior is harder to fine tune and play to it’s full potential, but this also makes mastering the class more rewarding.

Just my opinion, and I’m sure there are lots of SKs that disagree with me.
 

Smokeybear72

Only YOU can prevent forest fires !
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Started a WAR originally and it’s my main. Which I admit, makes me biased. If I wasn’t going to drive the toon, then I would go SK for the extra utility.

But if you are going to drive the toon, or make it your main then I’d go with the warrior. I think the warrior is harder to fine tune and play to it’s full potential, but this also makes mastering the class more rewarding.

Just my opinion, and I’m sure there are lots of SKs that disagree with me.
If you are not going to drive the toon, then go with the warrior is it boxes super easy. SK's no matter how much they try to macro, just basically turn them into Warriors =P

I agree we both are biased, but a close friend of mine played an SK and then last fall moved over to a warrior because it was much easier to box due to the flash points of death between the two. Warriors go into the whole shit I am enraging to low health, which allows you to be healed in time... a macro'd SK probly already blew their lifetaps and have no more o shit heals left because they are on cooldown.

Redcents are hard to come by when you have good content unless you are well known, and this is good content :) , so I grant you a cent in hopes your bloody warrior brains are able to get more sense /duck <3
 

Smokeybear72

Only YOU can prevent forest fires !
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And in case the folks read my post about having 3 zerkers is boring..... please don't dignify a response as I also have that combo available and anyone that boxes knows that group is OP and devastating... which was not the point of my comment.
 
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
RedCents
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High DPS when the stars align ...

SHD SHM BRD BST RNG BER

if ranger isn’t your thing and you don’t like managing bow distance swap it for a MNK or another BER
 
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Feb 24, 2005
RedCents
1,741¢
If you are not going to drive the toon, then go with the warrior is it boxes super easy. SK's no matter how much they try to macro, just basically turn them into Warriors =P

I agree we both are biased, but a close friend of mine played an SK and then last fall moved over to a warrior because it was much easier to box due to the flash points of death between the two. Warriors go into the whole shit I am enraging to low health, which allows you to be healed in time... a macro'd SK probly already blew their lifetaps and have no more o shit heals left because they are on cooldown.
I wouldn’t consider bad programming a reason to dismiss a class. I have both BIS TOV raid Warrior and SHD.

I raid tank with both and group / macro tank with both. Comes down to right tool for the job. I can 2 hand tank group content for hours without a healer and even run missions with SHD / BRD + 4 Melee DPS
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2017
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So, I just want to drop my 2 cents here, seems like there's a little disgruntled stuff going on.

Any group makeup you make is the best choice, for you, as a player. Suggestions can be made, but truly any setup can/will be viable with time. When I came back about three ish months ago, I asked a lot of questions. I really enjoy my caster group, and I know they're more challenging, plus pet ranking is well entirely different play style and risk.

Anyhow, I stuck with my group makeup, and I've had struggles, but now I'm making adjustments as needed, and learning my weak points. This overall has made me a better player, and I'm grateful for it. I know eventually, I'll need a tank, which is why I've been gearing my Paladin, which again I know most people dislike, but hey it's my game to.

Challenges will come and go regardless of anyone's decisions in the game. I feel you go with your gut, then decide hey I need to make a change, and ask for opinions. But, at the end of the day it's your option to go any route. Also, just because someone is succeeding on a 17 sec kill, doesn't mean they suffer in other areas you don't.

So, in closing! Enjoy the game, learn how to adapt your group to the play style you enjoy! And remember have fun!!!
 

Smokeybear72

Only YOU can prevent forest fires !
Joined
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RedCents
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I wouldn’t consider bad programming a reason to dismiss a class. I have both BIS TOV raid Warrior and SHD.

I raid tank with both and group / macro tank with both. Comes down to right tool for the job. I can 2 hand tank group content for hours without a healer and even run missions with SHD / BRD + 4 Melee DPS
Raid gear just shouldn't count when it comes to talking about how to run content ..... and you know it :) The distance that gear puts on toons even from max T3 is sadly MASSIVE. Here is just the Knight 2hs alone.

1584240489502.png

vs:
1584240559586.png


I have made good points towards both Warrior and SK.


Fueil, I agree with what you posted as well, peeps just gotta play toons and combos until they find what fits into their playstyle.
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2012
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I wouldn’t consider bad programming a reason to dismiss a class. I have both BIS TOV raid Warrior and SHD.

I raid tank with both and group / macro tank with both. Comes down to right tool for the job. I can 2 hand tank group content for hours without a healer and even run missions with SHD / BRD + 4 Melee DPS
I wonder how you comparing raid tanking between SK and WAR.
 
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
RedCents
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I wonder how you comparing raid tanking between SK and WAR.
War = tank bosses
SHD = tank adds // do tank rotations on bosses as needed

I also run my SHD in tank groups, so clicking the epic alone with multiple tanks meleeing adds a ton of healing / utility for all the tanks :P (Dual wielding warrior with SHD epic is like unkillable).
 
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