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Discussion - The Ethics Of Boxing (1 Viewer)

RobRenfro

RobRenfro

Level 2
Joined
Apr 12, 2023
RedCents
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I was having an in game discussion with a fellow boxer yesterday. And we both kind of laughed at the idea that boxing is cheating. That maximizing your gameplay and getting the optimal game experience is unfair. Everyone tries to do it in every game. When we were saving copper for bandages in the year 1999 it was to maximize our gaming experience. I've been leveling up an Enchanter which will be primarily a buffbot. It's on one of my now 7 paid accounts. I'm doing it in EW killing Frost Mammoths.

If my killing mammoths in an instanced EW So I can buff folks in the Guild Lobby causes anyone to feel cheated by me, I would love to hear their argument. I don't understand half of what is written here. But I understand enough to know that people are just trying to have fun playing Everquest. I've yet to read a post from someone I felt was trying to cheat the game. People just want to enjoy the game with the smaller player base we now have.

And building your own custom group just seems like a natural evolution from building your own custom character after 24 years of a game. At least that's my take which I thought I would share.
 
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Fair warning to replies: if this gets dumb or tinfoily, it's going to fippys, and should probably (and will likely. Get merged into mega thread)
 
When I speed down a highway and no one is around, I hurt no one, but I still break the law. It's 'wrong', but I find the consequences acceptable. I don't kill people, because I don't want to deal with the consequences (likely feelings of guilt and the death chair / life imprisonment if I did). There is always a chance I could kill someone when I speed down the highway, but I feel like I understand the risks.

I attempt to make the same types of evaluations here. Due to my lack of knowledge of programming, detection, and how EQ is built, it's easier for me to 'follow the laws' as 'written' by the developers and programmers here. I am certainly breaking the law of DBG, and I am generally OK with that.
 
Boxing isn't cheating if you're manually playing each character. As soon as you introduce automation programs to control the characters, you've given yourself an advantage and crossed that line into cheating territory. It's just like using aim bots and wall hacks in an fps game.
 
Yawn, not this dead horse again

Homer Simpson Wow GIF by Justin
 
I do believe we all here know what we are doing in game is against the rules set forth by Daybreak, and i'd wager that no one here would be surprised if they got a slap on their wrist from Daybreak if caught.
As it is cheating and no matter how much we try to "clean" it up, we do get an advantage vs those that do not box etc. with software.

None the less it is an awesome way to play EQ and i know quite a few people now that has showed me things i didn't think could be done.
So i think we should some time and consider showing support to the devs of MQ and drop a donation their way for the work. (There are sticky by redbot)
and be grateful of what this community offers for us "cheaters" no matter what kind of ethics we try and presend :)
just my 2c <3
 
Boxing I don’t think is cheating.
Using automation to play other characters is cheating. And I’ll say it loud and clear (just not in game obv) .. Yes I am a cheater and I’m happy with that.

Now people who afk in modern zones or in the same zone for days and days at a time or the idiot on YouTube (he’s here and knows who he is) is stupid and shouldn’t be happening in my opinion.
 
I can't get enough cheating. When I first started cheating I was amazed at the things we could do. Then I got bored of standard cheating and went the route of really really cheating. Then I was like, ya know....I don't like the way I'm cheating and I want to cheat more effectively. So I grabbed my "Thinking Cap -1" and started learning how to change the cheating I did into less effective cheating until I finally started cheating more effectively. Now I'm cheating really well, and then I help others cheat more better.
 
ChatWithThisName said:
I can't get enough cheating. When I first started cheating I was amazed at the things we could do. Then I got bored of standard cheating and went the route of really really cheating. Then I was like, ya know....I don't like the way I'm cheating and I want to cheat more effectively. So I grabbed my "Thinking Cap -1" and started learning how to change the cheating I did into less effective cheating until I finally started cheating more effectively. Now I'm cheating really well, and then I help others cheat more better.
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That's it. Under the rest for you.
 
Ethics are a man made idea to keep you thinking about your actions instead of acting so that someone who doesn't have any worries can overtake you. Its basically a conscious trap made up by people who don't care one thing about ethics. Do whatever you want as long as you don't stop others from doing what they want, that's how free will works. When you start violating the ability for others to act freely, then you start having the problems that have been described as sin and suffering. Interfering with others is the hallmark of humanity and creating ideas like ethics is one way people on this planet are being interfered with. All the debates of ethics and the "good" that people want to derive from such a debate can be summarized as... stop ruining others lives just to get ahead. Cheating in EQ doesn't really affect anyone else in a bad way. It provides opportunity. I just about always got someone else in my group that I'm helping that I couldn't even begin to help without the way I am boxing because I wouldn't be playing the game if I couldn't use MQ.

Furthermore, if people didn't cheat in everquest so that they could box their own crew, I'm pretty sure the game would already be over.
 
I don't feel they have made the rules clear enough. Very ambiguous. Now, I know if that sign says stop and I run it then I cheated. Or if my boyf is giving me lots of flowers and chocolates then chances are he cheated. But those rule are plain. Automated game play and afk can be interpreted many ways.

But within the game they can bend, gloss over or just totally ignore these ambiguous "rules". Sometimes something is and sometimes its not.

I honestly think the whole thing about cheating is not that we are cheating but that other players are jealous because they cannot do it and they are under the misguided impression that we hoard all the Krono. But because they are loud about it then it gets attention. Notice how quiet it got when that latest TLP was opened. They had to expend their Karen energy's elsewhere and yet most of us just carried on as usual.

Not sure what boxing has to do with it since there is no limit on how many EQ characters or accounts you can have.
 
Using MQ period violates the EULA but at least it's disabled on truebox. We may be cheaters but we aren't monsters.
 
Gohast said:
Using MQ period violates the EULA but at least it's disabled on truebox. We may be cheaters but we aren't monsters.
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This is what I feel they should say, correct me if I am wrong, but does it say in the EULA that no players is allowed to use MQ. Or do they say "using automated programs"



 
Redmonkey said:
This is what I feel they should say, correct me if I am wrong, but does it say in the EULA that no players is allowed to use MQ. Or do they say "using automated programs"
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It's even more catch-all than that. They forbid the use of any third party program that "in Daybreak's sole determination: (a) enable or facilitate cheating of any type;"
 
Knightly said:
I don't mind the conversation, as much as it's been rehashed. Always new people joining. But if I'm being honest, I'd have already lost the bet.
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This is my first time reading something lIke this.

My take it’s not cheating. It IS a violation of the EULA. If we used active hacks I’d consider that cheating because it would give a toon an unfair advantage. My opinion is so long as a single toon isn’t made better by MQ I don’t think it’s cheating. Just because it benefits a single player makes no difference. Each account is payed for, each account doesn’t use active hacks, so I’m not cheating other players.

I don’t think violating DBGs rules = cheating.


My 2 Redcents. BB~
 
Redmonkey said:
Or if my boyf is giving me lots of flowers and chocolates then chances are he cheated.
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Or he really appreciates you.
BlueBug said:
My take it’s not cheating. It IS a violation of the EULA. If we used active hacks I’d consider that cheating because it would give a toon an unfair advantage.
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It is in fact cheating.
With the use of MQ you can...literally automate an entire raid. You can automate the handling of loot. You can automate bag management. You can navigate multiple characters simultaneously from one area to the next. You can react to event messages programmatically, you can even log in your entire crew with a few clicks. If those options aren't a clear enough advantage, you can see everything on the map, you can determine when named are up at a glance, you can get notifications to a discord when certain events happen, you can...well, I mean, just go look in the resources and find all the things you can do that someone not using MQ can not do.

It's not even a relatively blurry line. This is definitely cheating. This is definitely a violation of the EULA.
 
ChatWithThisName said:
………..you can see everything on the map, you can determine when named are up at a glance, you can get notifications to a discord when certain events happen, you can...well, I mean, just go look in the resources and find all the things you can do that someone not using MQ can not do.

It's not even a relatively blurry line. This is definitely cheating. This is definitely a violation of the EULA.
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Yah know. Guess I’d gotten so used to it I didn’t even consider this. You’re right, scratch what I said before. Lol how odd one paragraph changed my opinion.

So ok I am cheating. But I don’t feel unethical.

BB
 
Doc James said:
YUP! Every time I have been pulled over for speeding it went something like this...."Sir, do you know why I pulled you over?" ME: Yes, because I was speeding. Gets 'em every time. :xd:
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I quote Fluffy and say "because you could smell em" (short: he makes a joke about being pulled over with a box of donuts, and the cup cracking up when he said that line i used)
Sadly they dont find me as funny as i do :(

(video link: )
 
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