Discussion - Starting Second Group (1 Viewer)

[Naturesong]

Hi All,

Looking for some advice for my second group. Looking to set up for raiding, specifically the raids where due to mechanics, a single group doesn't cut it.
As well as raid configuration, it'd be nice to be able to run it (or some combination of the 12) as two groups.
Additionally, it'd be nice to round out all the buffs and abilities.

Current Situation:
6 Toons, all lvl 90 - 92
Running KissAssist on everything.
Pop: All flagged to Time
SoF: Half Grp Flagged for Crystallos
Don: Completed
MPG Trials: Completed
HoT: Completed up to tier 4 group. On the last Morrel ones at the moment.

War; Lvl 90 (All Access), no epic, up to Wingblade
Enc, Lvl 90, (All Access), epic 1.5
Mnk, Lvl, Lvl 90 (All Access), have all parts for epic 1.0, but currently using Robe of the Whistling Fists for bard haste.
Clr, Lvl 92, (Free), Epic 1.0
Dru, Lvl, (Free), no epic, up to Venril Sathir
Mag, Lvl, (Free), no epic, have some bits

Proposed new group:

Pal / Sk (not sure which yet - probably Pal for group heals)
Shm
Brd
Rog
Wiz
Bst

This gets me two good groups, a caster group with the enc, and a melee group with the bard. But unable to form a good raiding configuration with these classes so far. 3 groups would be ideal, but I'm not ready, nor do I have a machine that'll run 18 toons (yet).

I'm curious on people thoughts for raid configuration, and possible changes to classes, bst is probably easiest to drop as he's largely there for Paragon.

 

[Shadow]

New Group: SHD/SHM/BRD/BST/BER/ROG - Drop the Wiz.

 

[naamloseeen]

I like a paladin for second group because of the splash heal/cure and a second battle rez. Some raids you'll get deaths no matter what, so you want people back up as fast as possible. PAL also brings lay-on-hands and sacrifice (or whatever it's called) which can help keep the tank up since you've only got one warrior.

I would probably swap things around so the War is in the melee group. The bard songs and monk aura will both help the War tankiness and the WAR will put out more DPS than the PAL anyway.

So you could consider:

WAR/CLR/BRD/MNK/ROG/BST
PAL/SHM/ENC/DRU/MAG/WIZ

That leaves the Shaman outside of the melee group which isn't ideal. You could swap the CLR and SHM. The CLR will still heal the WAR, but you'd lose the group-only AA heals/balance, so tough call.

Either way I think the proposed class lineup is fine, so it's just matter of swapping them around until it feels right.

Like you said, you really just need a 3rd group

 

[nuggy]

I run a mage/bard/bst/sham/sk/necro killer dps ...

 

[Naturesong]

I like a paladin for second group because of the splash heal/cure and a second battle rez. Some raids you'll get deaths no matter what, so you want people back up as fast as possible. PAL also brings lay-on-hands and sacrifice (or whatever it's called) which can help keep the tank up since you've only got one warrior.

I would probably swap things around so the War is in the melee group. The bard songs and monk aura will both help the War tankiness and the WAR will put out more DPS than the PAL anyway.

So you could consider:

WAR/CLR/BRD/MNK/ROG/BST
PAL/SHM/ENC/DRU/MAG/WIZ

That leaves the Shaman outside of the melee group which isn't ideal. You could swap the CLR and SHM. The CLR will still heal the WAR, but you'd lose the group-only AA heals/balance, so tough call.

Either way I think the proposed class lineup is fine, so it's just matter of swapping them around until it feels right.

Like you said, you really just need a 3rd group

This is the group combination I would use generally.

Alternately I could create three 4 toon groups
Tank - WAR/PAL/CLR/DRU
Melee - BRD/ROG/MNK/BST
Caster - ENC/MAG/WIZ/SHM

And for raids that have to be split into 4 (Ritual of Terror):
1: WAR/DRU
2: PAL/ENC
3: MAG/CLR
4: BST/SHM/BRD/ROG/MNK/WIZ

I run a mage/bard/bst/sham/sk/necro killer dps ...

Yes, but I want to balance melee / caster dps as I'll have bard / enchanter.
A third group would give the all the options

New Group: SHD/SHM/BRD/BST/BER/ROG - Drop the Wiz.

Yes, but then I've an extra melee that I'll have to put in the caster group so wont have the bard to help. berserker might be a better replacement than rogue. But I like the utility of the Rogue.

 

[Shadow]

What content are you planning to raid at your current level that will only be 12 toons? Additionally, I understand the want, but you do not need a full caster or melee group. You can mix and match. What is the end goal? There are plenty of people on here that do raids solo, or with a partner. A lot of planning goes into the groups, synergies, etc.

 

[Naturesong]

What content are you planning to raid at your current level that will only be 12 toons? Additionally, I understand the want, but you do not need a full caster or melee group. You can mix and match. What is the end goal? There are plenty of people on here that do raids solo, or with a partner. A lot of planning goes into the groups, synergies, etc.

My intention is to raid HoT onwards, keeping as close to level appropriate as I can.
I'll likely run the new group through Luclin, PoP, MPG, DoN and SoF as I level.
The goal after, and what has prompted me to increase my stable of toons, is the HoT raids, then VoA.
As a returning player, this is new content for me, so I want to run through it before I get to levels where it's no longer challenging.

 

[Sippi]

I would recommend SK/SHM/BRD/ROG/BER/BST. I scrolled up and to some other posts before I submitted my response and I see a number of them agree with me. What did you end up doing?

 

[Naturesong]

Paladin - Level 25 - Maximum Effort!
Bard - Level 25 - Maximum effort!
Rogue - Level 15 - Maximum effort!
Shaman - Level 25 - Maximum effort!
Beastlord - Level 25 - Maximum effort!
Wizard - Level 25 - Maximum effort!

Rogue is causing me trouble as I don't want to use MQ2Melee and will have to write a bunch of LEM triggers, or a low level version of LeRogue.

When they're up to level I'll Swap the Wizard (and maybe Paladin) out for the Monk (and Warrior).

Starting to think about a third group now - will definitely have an SK in that one.

 

[kaen01]

That is a solid group except the wizard, i would've gone with a ranger, because rangers are cooler.

and you don't need to use mq2melee, if you are using kissassist, look up the ambush tag on and stuff on the kissassist wiki

 

[WiseTrapper]

Hi All,

Looking for some advice for my second group. Looking to set up for raiding, specifically the raids where due to mechanics, a single group doesn't cut it.
As well as raid configuration, it'd be nice to be able to run it (or some combination of the 12) as two groups.
Additionally, it'd be nice to round out all the buffs and abilities.

Current Situation:
6 Toons, all lvl 90 - 92
Running KissAssist on everything.
Pop: All flagged to Time
SoF: Half Grp Flagged for Crystallos
Don: Completed
MPG Trials: Completed
HoT: Completed up to tier 4 group. On the last Morrel ones at the moment.

War; Lvl 90 (All Access), no epic, up to Wingblade
Enc, Lvl 90, (All Access), epic 1.5
Mnk, Lvl, Lvl 90 (All Access), have all parts for epic 1.0, but currently using Robe of the Whistling Fists for bard haste.
Clr, Lvl 92, (Free), Epic 1.0
Dru, Lvl, (Free), no epic, up to Venril Sathir
Mag, Lvl, (Free), no epic, have some bits

Proposed new group:

Pal / Sk (not sure which yet - probably Pal for group heals)
Shm
Brd
Rog
Wiz
Bst

This gets me two good groups, a caster group with the enc, and a melee group with the bard. But unable to form a good raiding configuration with these classes so far. 3 groups would be ideal, but I'm not ready, nor do I have a machine that'll run 18 toons (yet).

I'm curious on people thoughts for raid configuration, and possible changes to classes, bst is probably easiest to drop as he's largely there for Paragon.

Since your characters are only 90ish, you dont have a lot of gear/content already invested so you can do whatever you like.
Uncertain how its going to perform on raids, but here is what I have
Group 1 - SK, Cleric, Enchanter, Mage, Mage, Beastlord - considering dropping a mage for a druid or a necromancer
Group 2 - SK, Shaman, Bard, Rogue, Berserker, Ranger - considering dropping ranger for a necromancer

 

[kaen01]

Group 2 - SK, Shaman, Bard, Rogue, Berserker, Ranger - considering dropping ranger for a necromancer

i feel you missed the post where i said rangers are much awesomer than anything!

 

[Naturesong]

That is a solid group except the wizard, i would've gone with a ranger, because rangers are cooler.

and you don't need to use mq2melee, if you are using kissassist, look up the ambush tag on and stuff on the kissassist wiki

I checked out the Ambush tag - not working for this disc.
It's Sneak Attack, have to sneak, hide and then backstab.
Have auto sneak on, but I'm getting you have not hidden for long enough to use this ability type message (forget the exact words.)

 

[kaen01]

might need to write a lem then, that will pause macro, hide/sneak, stab, and then unpause macro.

 

[Naturesong]

Since your characters are only 90ish, you dont have a lot of gear/content already invested so you can do whatever you like.
Uncertain how its going to perform on raids, but here is what I have
Group 1 - SK, Cleric, Enchanter, Mage, Mage, Beastlord - considering dropping a mage for a druid or a necromancer
Group 2 - SK, Shaman, Bard, Rogue, Berserker, Ranger - considering dropping ranger for a necromancer

The idea was to end up with a caster group and melee group so they could each perform as a standalone.
This grouping achieves that. Also gets me the whole buff range - Bst was for Paragon, and every set needs at least one rogue for the general sneakiness and corpse runs. Much as I like flopping my monk around, rogues are better at this.
I think need 1 or 2 more groups to split them into specialist raid groupings: Tank, CC, DPS etc.

I't at that point I'll look at 5 mages or 5 zerkers or other boxing wierdness.
It'd be nice to run a complete set though, though that may be less practical until I'm running a ton of toons (which I have no intention of doing currently)

 

[Naturesong]

might need to write a lem then, that will pause macro, hide/sneak, stab, and then unpause macro.

I'm thinking along the lines of

• Pause mac
• Attack off
• Sneak on
• Hide on
• Move behind mob
• Pause
• Initiate Sneak attack
• Unpause mac

I've only written a couple of events in LEM, and really like it. So will be going that route instead of a rogue assistant lua.