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  • A TLP without truebox has thawed (Very Vanilla ready)
    Frostreaver

Two 6 man boxes

R

Rushdown

Level 2
Joined
Mar 18, 2026
RedCents
191¢
Hello me and my friend will be both 6 boxing on the new frostreaver server. We have never used cwtn or rgmercs before. I was hoping by to get some feedback from some more experienced boxers. The goal of our 12 man is to small man as much content as we can. The current set up we will be using is.
Friend=warrior/cleric/bard/enchanter/monk/rogue
Me=warrior/cleric/bard/shaman/monk/6th dps unsure of currently was thinking berserker.

So my question is to anyone who has done these small mans before what is a good set to get into this quickly after server launch are we choosing the correct comp? Also what content have you small manned at server start and what comp do you believe works best with automation, thank you.
 
Each person has to decide whats right for them. In all my groups I follow a general "formula"

If you have the basic 3, Tank, healer, and crowd control, then you have 3 spots for dps.
I personally pair Bard with melee, and enchanter with casters.
Also, I personally prefer SK over warrior. If you plan to raid stuff 1 warrior and 1 SK is very good way to go.

Friend=warrior/cleric/bard/enchanter/monk/rogue
(my personally opinion on this set up is that it is very strong, but slow on DPs. Having a bard and enchanter in the same group is too much over lap for me. Since you have melee dps already I would go with another melee dps instead of enchanter. Bst is nice)


Me=warrior/cleric/bard/shaman/monk/6th dps unsure of currently was thinking berserker.
(In the same way that your friend has bard and enchanter, you have Cleric and Shaman. My shaman is a dream come true and I never have healing issues in my groups, ever. Since you have cleric buffs available from your friends group(I just pop cleric merc for my buffs, then suspend him when he's done buffing) , to me... it makes sense to have SK, shaman, enchanter, then 3 caster dps. Wiz are incredible right now, and a mage is so nice for so many reasons.)

How ever you go about it. Pick whats fun for you. Have a great time and enjoy playing with your friend!
 
I'd go with one melee group and one caster group - both setups are very capable and you'd have more options (e.g. ports).

Something like:
  • Melee: SK / BRD / SHM / ROG / MNK / BER
  • Caster: PAL / ENC / CLE / MAG / WIZ / NEC
For better dps on the caster group you could replace the cleric with a druid, but you'd lose combat rez and the better buffs. You could also use a WAR instead of the PAL if you like WAR more :D
 
Scharnhorst said:
I'd go with one melee group and one caster group - both setups are very capable and you'd have more options (e.g. ports).

Something like:
  • Melee: SK / BRD / SHM / ROG / MNK / BER
  • Caster: PAL / ENC / CLE / MAG / WIZ / NEC
For better dps on the caster group you could replace the cleric with a druid, but you'd lose combat rez and the better buffs. You could also use a WAR instead of the PAL if you like WAR more :D
Click to expand...
Yeah we’re gonna do double warrior because of defensive disc for early small man raiding.
 
Assuming you want to do raid content, you'll really need to have all the classes you have listed. That means each group will be a little lower on DPS, but there's only so much you can do with two groups.

You really have to think about building a strong raid team and not two strong groups.

I tend to agree with @JustaDad, but I will say that I think ENC/BRD works OK in this era because charm is still very strong and you'll want to have an ENC for CC.

AoE mez is just very good, especially for such a small raid team.

I think a BST would fit well for your last slot for good DPS and buffs. BER or Wiz are higher individual DPS, but the BST buffs will help everybody out. Raid timers suck and you'll want every bit of mana regen you can get.

I would stick with WAR for both groups. They have better DPS in older content and will let you alternate defensive disc, which you will need if you plan to raid.

You'll also need two clerics for combat rez and CH.

When I was doing this, I found Complete Heal rotations still work really well, but you'll have to figure out how to coordinate them between the two of you. It's tough to fully automate because the rotation timing ends up different for every raid and for every tank.

Having the shaman for spot healing will help a lot.

It sounds crazy, but you could even consider adding another healer for your 6th. With only two tanks, you have a very small margin of error. If heals can't come in fast enough, the raid wipes, regardless of how much dps you have.

It'll really just depend on how easily you can get good gear and how well your automations work. You'll probably just have to feel it out and replace toons if needed.

It'll be fun. I think small team raiding is the last challenge left in EQ.
 
naamloseeen said:
Assuming you want to do raid content, you'll really need to have all the classes you have listed. That means each group will be a little lower on DPS, but there's only so much you can do with two groups.

You really have to think about building a strong raid team and not two strong groups.

I tend to agree with @JustaDad, but I will say that I think ENC/BRD works OK in this era because charm is still very strong and you'll want to have an ENC for CC.

AoE mez is just very good, especially for such a small raid team.

I think a BST would fit well for your last slot for good DPS and buffs. BER or Wiz are higher individual DPS, but the BST buffs will help everybody out. Raid timers suck and you'll want every bit of mana regen you can get.

I would stick with WAR for both groups. They have better DPS in older content and will let you alternate defensive disc, which you will need if you plan to raid.

You'll also need two clerics for combat rez and CH.

When I was doing this, I found Complete Heal rotations still work really well, but you'll have to figure out how to coordinate them between the two of you. It's tough to fully automate because the rotation timing ends up different for every raid and for every tank.

Having the shaman for spot healing will help a lot.

It sounds crazy, but you could even consider adding another healer for your 6th. With only two tanks, you have a very small margin of error. If heals can't come in fast enough, the raid wipes, regardless of how much dps you have.

It'll really just depend on how easily you can get good gear and how well your automations work. You'll probably just have to feel it out and replace toons if needed.

It'll be fun. I think small team raiding is the last challenge left in EQ.
Click to expand...
I don’t think beastlord would be good for my group because I have most of his benefits covered by shaman we’ve discussed adding one to his raid team.
 
Rushdown said:
I don’t think beastlord would be good for my group because I have most of his benefits covered by shaman we’ve discussed adding one to his raid team.
Click to expand...
It's not the Shaman buffs you want. Beastlords get lines of buffs that are unique to them and stack with everything else you'll have.

Here are a couple, but I can't remember exactly when they get everything.

 
naamloseeen said:
It's not the Shaman buffs you want. Beastlords get lines of buffs that are unique to them and stack with everything else you'll have.

Here are a couple, but I can't remember exactly when they get everything.

Click to expand...
Forgot about those would it be worth giving up a dps slot for a beastlord heard they’re overall dps is kinda low on motm targets we talked about running one when luclin released
 
Rushdown said:
Forgot about those would it be worth giving up a dps slot for a beastlord heard they’re overall dps is kinda low on motm targets we talked about running one when luclin released
Click to expand...
I think it probably is worth it. They aren't normally available in this era, so it's kind of hard to say. I guess a lot of it will come down to what gear/weapons are available to them in Velious.

With the crazy loot rules, it probably won't be hard to get BiS stuff, whatever that may be.
 
Any class combo will largely work for any kind of content in this game.

Paladin + 5 mages in your group, your friends group stays the same.

If you don't want to meme status with 5 mages, you can (and should) still roll a paladin, ditch the cleric (you got a shaman) and roll with a mage/your choice of another DPS

Mage coth is valuable and paladins are by far the best ae threat generating tank in early expansions
 
i have a ton of experince 12maning in lower expac tlps. your group is the group i ran for most of it. its a very good group. your friends group is also good but personally i would drop the rog for a mnk or ber. even with stick its alot easier to to position ber and mnk then baby sit your rog so it gets good backstab arcs. I would also create personas to make some stuff easier. an example is rangers are the best dps on low maning seru
because they take 0 dmg and just need to auto fire. your clr and shms can focus on keeping the tank alive instead of curing melee.

we eventually added 1 other character and it was a clr. so we had 4 clrs to do a ch chain which let us get some more stuff. then when we werent using them we used them as bazaar accounts.

coh isnt as valuable as people make it out to be in early expacs unless they are on a different faction then you are for velious. like in luclin cohing in ssra is the only use for it. i would just get good at controlling your people to go up and down the tunnel. use stick hold to go up and down water tunnels.

motm + bst is aids motm + mage is aids stay away from them. Rng are also better then bst until like sod for buffs / adps. paragon and se is all they bring basically. shm give buffs malo for you and have two slow resists so if something is magic resistant they can disease slow.
 
Frostreaver will launch in velious.

If your goal is raids, Monk is good.
If your goal is not being easily detected as using MQ, Mages... But they're pretty bad on motm targets and will always be oom in groups

Tbh I think you'd be best off having some group flexibility by mapping out which character has different personas.
 
For these types of groups, I think you and your friend - if you're really wanting to raid, need to split your groups.
Defense group
DPS Group.

This allows you to maximize bards, and other classes to get the most bang for the buck - especially for group DPS AA/Spells.
 
eqmoo said:
wait, MQ works on frost?
Click to expand...
most likely, but also pretty likely to get a suspension/ban for using it during the early days due to it being a/the new tlp. Despite it winning the "no truebox" vote, you will have ALOT of karens that will report everyone boxing, i bet.
 
Rushdown said:
Hello me and my friend will be both 6 boxing on the new frostreaver server. We have never used cwtn or rgmercs before. I was hoping by to get some feedback from some more experienced boxers. The goal of our 12 man is to small man as much content as we can. The current set up we will be using is.
Friend=warrior/cleric/bard/enchanter/monk/rogue
Me=warrior/cleric/bard/shaman/monk/6th dps unsure of currently was thinking berserker.

So my question is to anyone who has done these small mans before what is a good set to get into this quickly after server launch are we choosing the correct comp? Also what content have you small manned at server start and what comp do you believe works best with automation, thank you.
Click to expand...
So unfortunately, early on your 12-man targets are basically going to be things like Lodizal, Dozekar, Woushi, Keldor Dek`Torek, the Kunark dragons, Naggy/Vox, or farming ToV and Thurg armor. The common denominator is that almost all of them AoE, so a Bard resist song is pretty much mandatory. A Druid for Circles would also help, but most of these mobs dispel buffs as well, which means you’ll either need very strong healing or enough DPS to brute force through it(With MoTm is much harder than it sounds).

We have never seen a Berserker in straight Velious gear that early, so can’t really speak on what their DPS would look like probably pretty decent. Monks, though, are monsters on early TLPs. You can basically hand them a haste item and they’ll pump sustained DPS forever. You’ll also be able to knock out most epics pretty easily early on, especially the very helpful Monk and Cleric epics.
 
Reading your replies, it seems like you've already decided to run what you listed, so I'm not sure why you asked. There were some responses here with very good advice that you seem to have ignored. Personally, I think your groups will do fine, but they're not optimal nor efficient. As mentioned, you should consider optimizing one for melee, the other for casting support. The biggest flaw I see is that you have two CLRs. Why? Run a CLR or a SHM in your melee group and run the other plus a DRU - yes, a DRU - in your caster group. Given what you have and your stated goals, I'd recommend:

1) WAR, BRD, SHM, RNG, MNK, ROG or BER
2) SK, CLR, DRU, ENC, MAG, WIZ

This minimizes duplications and maximizes synergies. As you level and more content is unlocked, a BST and perhaps a second BRD can replace a healer and the RNG.
 
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I think the team you have will do fine, the only thing I would change is add in some way to port. Saves a lot of time, good quality of life update. It isn't necessary though and your team looks solid.

My 12 man team is this :

Group 1 SK, SHM, BRD, BER, WIZ, WIZ

Group 2 PAL, CLR, ENC, MAG, MAG, MAG

When I am doing group content or just grinding xp it is SK, SHM, BRD, MAG, BER, WIZ // PAL, CLR, ENC, MAG, MAG, WIZ
 
The issue u will find is that early-expansions differ ALOT compared to lvl 90 or even 70+ when classes start to get their defining/cool stuff.

"
Friend=warrior/cleric/bard/enchanter/monk/rogue
Me=warrior/cleric/bard/shaman/monk/6th dps unsure of currently was thinking berserker "

ID highly rec having one of you setup as more the tank/survive group, with the other being raw dps. For early expansions until .. 80 or so, your tank crew could be War-war-cleric-cleric-bard-enchanter or something similar. Warriors grouped with the clerics for easier healing, bard of course, and chanter as a fill-in (could do shaman/sk instead of chanter, but thats more for lvl 70+ content cuz epics/ect)

Dps crew would be either Melee based: Monk-zerk-bard-shaman, with any of SK (for later on with sk epic), chanter if no chanter in the main tank group (for good haste) or another monk/zerker for maximum dps. Can use a rogue if you want variety over maximizing dps. OR add a ranger for their buffs.

For leveling, can swap a warrior for a dps class so each has a tank/dps.

For a caster based dps crew, for early levels (prior to druids getting caster buffs) you could go mage-wiz-chanter-bard-shaman-necro, or swap the necro for another mage/wizard.

Just my 2cents.
 
When it comes to non-MQ boxing on TLP servers I think the general consensus when running a heavy mage group is something like enchanter/healer/mage x4, where you drive with the enchanter. Lull/mez/slow/clarity/charm is just a lot better than having another mage, and enchanter is a fairly fun class to main. Mages are not the best on motm raid targets, but for most group content it's fine.
Cleric is significantly better at healing charmed pets, and rezzing is fantastic - Druids are great for mobility (sow/porting). For any raid targets Clerics are mandatory.
 
Hey sorry about not replying been busy as hell with school work I think we made our final decision on my group=warr bard cleric shaman monk monk and my friend will run warrior bard enchanter cleric mage druid. We are sticking with double warrior for x2 defensive disc seems to be bis for small man even though the sk and pally bring utility we might bring in a pally for ramp tanking once luclin releases and will be switching out 1 of my monks for a ranger maybe both.
 
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