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Think about this statement... (1 Viewer)

Yes.

The fact that every statement you make is a lie, is true, because you do not clearly understand the parameters of the statement. Lies are statements in one sense but false statements in another, therefore if every statement you make is a lie, you must be telling the truth in only a first person perspective.
 
Boobies are Weapons of Mass Distraction and all chicks with a nice rack should be sent to Gitmo because they can use thier Ultimate Weapon(s) to win any arguement, distract any man, and cause temporary Dain Bramage.

It's like Sap, only it lasts as long as the female's nipples are visible.
 
If every statement I make is a "lie," then that would mean that I am lying about the statement, which would in turn mean that every statement that I make is not a lie, but that I can tell the truth, which would mean that every statement that I make is not false.

It's like saying that there is no such thing as an objective truth. In the fact that you are saying there is no such thing as truth, you are making a truth claim, therefore, there must be truth. "The absolute truth is, that there is no such thing as absolute truth" is what one would be claiming. It's what we like to call a self-defeating statement.

Therefore, there is such a thing as truth...Chew on this for a while...What is truth?
 
Someone esle could state that "that person never tells the truth" and it may be a truthful statement, but a person can not claim to always lie and have it a truthful statement, as they would prove themselfs wrong by telling the truth, so it makes it a lie. If a person was to claim that "I almost never tell the truth" or "I lie most of the time", the statement might or might not be truthful, yet it doesn't counterdict itself.

If you make the statement "Every statement I make is the truth" I would question it, as I only know one person in existance who is without sin - Jesus the Christ. All men, except for Christ, has committed at least one sin, and most people more than two. Your sin may be murder, so you could be telling the truth, and never make a false statement. I would find it easier to belive if you made a statement such as " I always tell the truth, and have done so for the last 5 years", or even "I am concerned about the truth of every matter as much as I am about the ants in China and the rich diet of rice they are eatinig".

So, again, your statement is a lie about lieing.
 
Erol-Tob said:
Yes.

The fact that every statement you make is a lie, is true, because you do not clearly understand the parameters of the statement. Lies are statements in one sense but false statements in another, therefore if every statement you make is a lie, you must be telling the truth in only a first person perspective.
Click to expand...

This post was entirely irrelevent, because although lies are statements, and false statements, a false statement is also, inherently, a statement. The sole purpose of your post was to use the word "parameter", much like the purpose of mine was to use the word "inherent".

By the way, in regards to your signature...
http://pwned.nl
= D
 
awev said:
as I only know one person in existance who is without sin - Jesus the Christ. All men, except for Christ, has committed at least one sin, and most people more than two.
Click to expand...

Gotta love philosophy, but history is also important.
Note: not saying I believe ANY of this, so don't take this as an assault on Christianity, but here it is:

In The Da Vinci Cod, it mentions that Jesus may indeed have had an affair with Mary Magdalene, it has not gone unseen by historians, merely overlooked. In this way, we can observe that no one, living or dead, has ever lived a life free of sins and lies.

Just a different point of view, say what you will...
 
Lol, I am enjoying Philosophy class.

Awev, I did not "make" the statement personally, I was only making it for the purpose of discussion. I completely agree that it is irrevelant and agree with your position that it could be agreed that one could say, "Almost every statement that I claim is a lie," for this would leave open the opportunity for the base statement to either be true or false.

I do agree completely that there is only one being to ever exist that never sinned, and can never sin. This could bring up an entire new subject in itslef, of which I would love to discuss.

My thoughts are that there is moral proof, truth truth, and even scientific proof, and even more proof that there is an Uncreated Creator. This can be none other than God Almighty, who sent His One Son Jesus to live a perfect life so that He may be the perfect sacrifice that would eternally atone for our sins. The past, present, and future.

Smurf, keep note that Dan Brown's "Da Vinci Code" is a complete fictional book, and has no relvevance to truth. It would be as if I stated that the Cat in the Hat was a real being who truly existed and came into childrens homes and talked to goldfish. It was a fictional book. If you want to start a new thread on the Da Vinci code, I would be more than willing to discuss the absurdness of it and how it uses complete false information, and no historical information to write a false book about the truthful Man, Jesus Christ.

The truth of the matter is that Jesus is Truth, and we would not be able to know truth apart from Him. Why? Because God revealed it to us. How can we know what truth is unless there is a base foundation, that being the One truth, (even Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle in their ignorance of God still came to the conclusion of some "higher being." Plato I believe called God the Demiurge, or The One, but we know Him as the King of kings and the Lord of lords, God. And yes, I know that you weren't attacking Christianity, I'm just presenting my views.

Here is another thought...
Where was God, before He created the world, and what was He doing? I have an idea, but I would love to hear from you...
 
papasmurf99 said:
By the way, in regards to your signature...
http://pwned.nl
= D
Click to expand...

I almost put that in my sig! rofl... :)

"WHAT THE F*** HAPPENED TO MY COMPUTER!!?!?! NYUUUUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

'the next day at school'

*cocks gun* *boom, *boom"
 
I think the word that needs to be looked at in a statement like "that person is always lying," is the word "always," Not the other philosophical mumbo jumbo.

The word "always" used in this context, is invariably an estimation. It's much less common to hear "The Earth is always spinning!" as opposed to "This guy is always driving me nuts!" Both are acceptable statements in our society, but only the first one is essentially true by definition.

Which reminds me of a joke...

So this pirate walks into a bar with a steering wheel in his pants. The bartender is like, "Hey buddy... You know you got a steering wheel in your pants?" So the pirate is like, "Arrr! It's drivin' me nuts!"

-CodeCaster
 
RedBema said:
Smurf, keep note that Dan Brown's "Da Vinci Code" is a complete fictional book, and has no relvevance to truth. It would be as if I stated that the Cat in the Hat was a real being who truly existed and came into childrens homes and talked to goldfish. It was a fictional book. If you want to start a new thread on the Da Vinci code, I would be more than willing to discuss the absurdness of it and how it uses complete false information, and no historical information to write a false book about the truthful Man, Jesus Christ.

Here is another thought...
Where was God, before He created the world, and what was He doing? I have an idea, but I would love to hear from you...
Click to expand...

The first part of this quote is only partially true... there are many paganistic facts in there, and lets just say that the Christian Church hasn't exactly always been the most truthful either (example: sometime around 1400 A.D. church starts taking bribes for admittance to heavan...), but the analogy was hilarious, so it's fine by me ^^.

About the second part, I have no idea, which is why I am a skeptic. People have always blindly followed the idea that god created the universe, and before he did so, there was nothing. If there was nothing, then where or what was god? How can one even begin to fathom the existance of an intelligent being (or any at all) in a complete lack of anything, an absolute nothingness is hard to imagine. When others ask me what I mean when I say this, I explain it through another paradox... what to blind people actually see? They don't see black, this is a common misconception brought on by the belief that when ours eyes close, they 'turn off' or something, when in reality you are only seeing the insides of your eyelids. Black and white are considered the default, which exists only with a complete lack of color... but even a lack of color must be seen... and if blind people can't see, they don't see white, black, anything... when I imagine nothing, I imagine space, meaning blackness... but even black is a color... hopefully someone understands what I'm trying to say.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter, because I was once religious, but then I began to think about it and there were so many things that no one could explain to me...so please, in all sincerity, let me know...

(This is the first time in years I've had a philosophical conversation... It's actually fairly enjoyable!)
 
PapaSmurf, let me ask you this: Can order come out of chosa, and where did the matter originate for the big bang?

I hope you don't mind me quoting from the bible. In John, chapter 1, verses 1 - 3,
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Click to expand...

As to how did God come to being I have no idea, nor answer. Yet, I have to wonder, how does the atom know how to come into existance? And the quakes? How did our solar system, galaxy, etc, come to be as it is, to support life, from the chaso of an explosion? What is the random chance that chaso would create the laws of physics, and chose to obey them, to create all that is seen and unseen?

As to the blind knowing black and white, or not knowing, I belive I understand what you are trying to say. How does a deaf person know what your voice sounds like if he or she can't hear you? How could they compair it to my voice, it they can't hear that either. Using your own arguments, how can you say God doesn't exist, as where the matter for the big bang come from?
How can one even begin to fathom the existance of an intelligent being (or any at all) in a complete lack of anything, an absolute nothingness is hard to imagine.
Click to expand...
How can you imagine planets, suns, black holes, life as we know it, if it started from nothing? Again, where the matter come from to form the big bang? The Lord has stated that he is the Alpha and Omega - the begining and the end. That is more than what the universe has told us.

Some things just have to be accepted on faith.

I don't agree with the Cathlic church, and because of that I have joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints. The cathlic church teaches to pray to the virgin mother Mary, and ask her to speak to her son, Jesus, and have him speak to his father, God, on your behalf. That is just plain wrong, as the bible teaches that Jesus is the way, and you should pray to your father in heaven, and no other name is given.

Some people find it hard to belive in God, and others find it impossible to belive otherwise. Looking at the latest scientific evidence I just can't see how we came to be without a God. I won't call anyone dumb for not sharing my belifes, just that I am reminded of a song, with two lines from it: I don't belive in heavan. And I pray that there is no Hell.

Now, back to the original statement. Can we apply bit logic to it? 1 = True and 0 = False, can we agree to that? Now, what if we use two bits to evaluate the statement?

0 0 is a completely false statement
0 1 and
1 0 is some truth mixed in with some false statements
1 1 is pure truth

Will have to take this up later, my brian is headed south, and my eye lids are way too heavey now.

Parting though - the best lies and jokes both have some truth in them.
 
papasmurf99 said:
The first part of this quote is only partially true... there are many paganistic facts in there, and lets just say that the Christian Church hasn't exactly always been the most truthful either (example: sometime around 1400 A.D. church starts taking bribes for admittance to heavan...), but the analogy was hilarious, so it's fine by me ^^.

About the second part, I have no idea, which is why I am a skeptic. People have always blindly followed the idea that god created the universe, and before he did so, there was nothing. If there was nothing, then where or what was god? How can one even begin to fathom the existance of an intelligent being (or any at all) in a complete lack of anything, an absolute nothingness is hard to imagine. When others ask me what I mean when I say this, I explain it through another paradox... what to blind people actually see? They don't see black, this is a common misconception brought on by the belief that when ours eyes close, they 'turn off' or something, when in reality you are only seeing the insides of your eyelids. Black and white are considered the default, which exists only with a complete lack of color... but even a lack of color must be seen... and if blind people can't see, they don't see white, black, anything... when I imagine nothing, I imagine space, meaning blackness... but even black is a color... hopefully someone understands what I'm trying to say.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter, because I was once religious, but then I began to think about it and there were so many things that no one could explain to me...so please, in all sincerity, let me know...

(This is the first time in years I've had a philosophical conversation... It's actually fairly enjoyable!)
Click to expand...

I am very glad that you are enjoying this conversation smurf. I am too. I find it very intriguing to talk to others about thoughts such as these, that's why I posted this thread to begin with...

Lol, yes I agree, the analogy was off the wall, but that's why I used it, to show how off the wall the Da Vinci code really is. And you are right, the church did begin to take bribes to "accept" people into heaven and that was wrong. But know this, just because the church did it, doesn't make it right. People often forget that Christians are mere humans also, and we are judged very harshly. And yes, some Christians do judge others harshly also. I am the first to admit that I am a sinner, but there is a difference, and that is that I believe I am saved by grace. Secondly, my observation has been that many people seem to lose their faith because of the church, or other Christians, or better yet, some lose their faith, because they lack faith. It is no secret that no matter what you believe, whether agnostic, or atheism, or whatever, you still serve some type of god. Whether it is yourself, or a form of some kind. But there is only One True God, and that is what they miss. It's almost as if we are all created with some sort of "moral code." Why is right right? Why is wrong wrong? Who was to say that killing someone is wrong? We are created with that internally, almost as if there is some God shaped hole in all of us.

Anyways, hypocrites is what they call alot of Christians. Hypocrite comes from the Greek word, hypocritos, which stood for an actor who would literally change his mask in the middle of a scene of a play to talk to himself. But think about this:

God /Hypocrite in church / Faithless man

Notice that the hypocrite is closer to God in the equation. No one ever said that we are perfect, the only difference is that we live for something that we believe is higher and better than this world and try to do better. I fall short all of the time. And I'm a preacher! But God's grace is so sufficient. And I do my very best to please Him so that one day when I face Him I am not ashamed.

About the question I posed at the end of my previous post. I believe it was Augustine that said this. God created "time." So to ask what He did in the time before He created the world would be an absurd question because there was no time. He created the "clock" time that we know. Therefore, He lived in some sort of world that we really can't imgaine and for me thats okay. For others, they may have a harder time accepting that but I go with Deut. 29:29 that basically states that "the secret things belong to God." If we were to know everything, then why would there be a need for the Savior? If we were ultimatley strong, why would we need His strength, or wisdom, etc. You see, our wisdom is folliness to God, just as is our strength is weakness. He created us to need Him. For me thats amazing.
 
I was just surfing the web and came upon this discussion. I personally love discussing ethics/religion/politics... actually just about anything. So here is my thoughts on the topic. (not that anyone cares really)

First of all. How did our universe come into existence from nothing. God, Big bang, or sneezed out of some giant things nose (if you don't get it read some Douglas Adams). Well a common misconseption is that there had to be a beggining. Our brains do not like thinking of infinity so we don't. But it is a possiblity that there never was a beginning.

But then why is the universe still expanding? Well there had to be some cosmic event that caused the universe to do something. My thoughts on this are the dimensional membranes of M theory. (M theory is the combination of the 5 different froms of String theory.) It is to long to explain on this post but not that hard to look up. Or read the book The Elegant Universe.

In case you have not noticed i am not terribly religious. And even that is an over statement. I have never belonged to any religious organization, and the closest i have come is going to a friends Bar-Mitvah when I was 9. I think that religion can be a very good thing for people. It gives hope, something to believe in, and comfort for those who do not like the thought of death being the end.

But religion can also corrupt. The catholic church has reformed, but between the 1400's and the 1600's it had some very corrupt popes and cardinals. I also dislike missionarys. I live in Utah so i get a lot of them. I am constantly in discussion with them while i stand in the cold at my front door. They dont seem to like the fact that i dont agree with there way of thinking. But thats o.k. they don't seem to agree with some of my ideas either.

P.S. "I swear there ain't on heaven, but i pray there ain't no hell" is from the song I ain't afraid of dying. by Blood Sweat and Tears.
 
First off, I'd just like to thank you, Redbema, for giving me another point of view on the matter. Honestly, it was the most well thought out and organised display of this thought process I have ever heard, and I am glad I read it. Everything you said makes sense to me, and makes me think, this doesn't mean I've seen the light, but it certainly means that I will be looking into these things (The Elegant Universe(Ring ring) and possibly the Bible).

Although I'm only 16 years old, yet recently I've found myself contemplating my existance for more hours than I sleep...

It's funny how life works, I came to this website looking for some guides to a video game, and found myself pondering the very creation of our universe.
 
Lol... Amazing how that works Papa =). If you are looking into the elegant universe you can also get it on DVD. It is narrated by Brian greene and has amazing special effects and computer animations of a lot of the things which make it easier to understand.
 
Just because I'm 16 doesn't mean I'm dumb ><. I'm taking several courses at the local college (dartmouth, ever heard of it? lol) I attend school several towns away, but Dartmouth provides free courses for H.S students who qualify, and grade all of your papers, it's an awesome deal.
 
I apologize papa i did not mean to offend. The book was a little to indepth for me so i got the DVD. It really helped me understand some of the concepts in the book that did not grasp while reading. That sounds like an amazing program and You are very lucky to have access to it. It sounds like your very smart and you probably can read the book and understand it better than me. I just suggested the DVD because it helped me a lot.

I apologize again and i did not mean to insult.
 
I'm not claiming to be a genius or anything close to it, come on now... I play WoW = ). Anways, I've taken too much crap for refusing to anonymously post on forums and whatnot, I'm 16 and not afraid to admit it... but I get thrown into the 12-16 year old stereotype on a daily basis. I wasn't bragging or trying to attack you, I was...venting anger. Thanks for apologizing though, it takes so much more courage to apologize than to point a finger and laugh.

By the way... did anyone else notice how much this topic has changed?
 
RedBema said:
If you have any thoughts about this statement, please respond...

"Every statement that I make is a lie"
Click to expand...

Everyone has made this a little bit more complex than it needs to be. Most look at this and and say that if the statement is true then it has to be false. The Liar that made this statement was telling a lie. The lie is in "Every Statement". Now most say that well that means that every statement he makes is not a lie. If the Liar says 50% truth and 50% lies then he was caught in a lie when he made the statement. Thus, after some rambling ... the statement is true.
 
Did not the atom not exist until man thought it might exist and start to look for it and therefore was it not the thought of man that brought into existence the atom ?
 
Boswell said:
Did not the atom not exist until man thought it might exist and start to look for it and therefore was it not the thought of man that brought into existence the atom ?
Click to expand...

Not exactly.

Truth is still truth whether we believe it or not. Atoms have always existed since the creation, man just discovered them.

Like electricity. Before Thomas Edison went out to fly a kite and was struck was there no such thing as electricity? Of course there was, it just hadn't been discovered yet. Another way to look at it is that I have a black car sitting outside of my office right now. That is the truth. A co-worker may not believe it until he goes outside and discovers it. The truth was that it was out there all the time.

Also, think about Colombus discovering America. Did it not exist until he came up and saw the land? Of course it did.

I see your thoughts though, but I believe them to be illogical.
 
papasmurf99 said:
It's funny how life works, I came to this website looking for some guides to a video game, and found myself pondering the very creation of our universe.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I feel the same way. It's amazing isn't it how things work out.

I have never heard of the "elegant universe" so I can't post any thoughts or critques about it. Wish I could. Maybe I'll look into buying it so that I can.

And smurf, I am more than willing to always post my thoughts about religion. I also love the conversations and find them compelling. They keep me on my toes with what others think and how they interact with what I think.
 
Mr. Phony mick ring ring said:
But religion can also corrupt. The catholic church has reformed, but between the 1400's and the 1600's it had some very corrupt popes and cardinals. I also dislike missionarys. I live in Utah so i get a lot of them. I am constantly in discussion with them while i stand in the cold at my front door. They dont seem to like the fact that i dont agree with there way of thinking. But thats o.k. they don't seem to agree with some of my ideas either.
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree, religion can be corrupt because people are corrupt. One problem is associating Christianity with Catholicism because believe it or not, I would go as far to say that most Catholic churches preach a different gospel than that of the Bible.

And living in Utah, those missionaries that are coming to your door most likely aren't Christians, but Mormons, which is something completley different than Christianity, and they are very evangelistic in their ways. So beware of them, lol, because they are not associated with Christianity.

They may use the word "Christian" but their definition is different. It is like they took the word blue, and defined it as red, while Christians mean blue when they say blue.
 
Lol, what video is that Boswell,

Reminds me of my old days at Team Fortress Classic,

mwahahahaha!!!

That was a very funny video...
 
redbema, if you're referring to the http://pwned.nl video, look at the signatures in this post (can't remember whos) "owned by Mygot7"

and by the way, I got a free trial membership! Thanks guys!
 
RedBema said:
Truth is still truth whether we believe it or not.
Click to expand...

ah ... so truth is absolute ?

When we discover a truth it was always a truth ?

How do we know atoms existed before we thought of them and went looking ?

How do we know that Thomas Edison did anything more than label the entity previously created by the thought of another ?

The black car exists because it was your truth before it became another's ... but if someone stole that car and your co-worker never saw it, would your truth be any more or less valid than that of your co-worker ?

Is it not that America existed before Columbus only because it was another's truth that Columbus re-discovered ? How do we know that the America's would ever have existed except for the dreaming of the natives who, centuries earlier, went looking ?

If a tree falls in a forest and no one is there to hear it fall, does it make a sound ? How would we ever know that it ever fell ? Would it not have fallen except for the truth that someone went looking expecting it to have fallen ?
 
How would you know that the tree fell down if no one was there to see that there was even a tree Boswell?

You stated the truth that it fell down.

So let me put what you are saying in a nutshell..."The absolute truth is, is that their is no such thing as absolute truth."

Isn't your statement a truth?
 
I will have to take the Jerry Sienfield stance on this. What word are you emphasizing! Hehe. The "lie" part of the statement does not necessarily have to be talking about the "truth" part. It could be lieing about the "every" part of the statment. Therefore making it not every statement you make is a lie. Which is appselutely true.

Or the it could be lying about the whole thing in which we would have to reverse most of the words making it "Some statements that I make are true" Which is also True
Or even this. "Some silences that i do not make are true" Which makes not sense but if the person is lieing then everything will be opposite. Heh im confused

Or why does a lie have to be the exact opposite. Saying every statement i make is a lie is lieing so that it you must make true statements. But that does not mean you cannot also make some false ones too. And this one could be one of the false statements that you sometimes make.

Basically it means nothing. All it is, is someone exercising there right to free speach in a very confusing and frustrating way. It can be interepeted anyway you like, therefore it could mean something different to everyone in the whole world. Much like the Bible/koran/Torah.. and most religious scripts of anykind.

Thanks for posting this, it gives my friends a break from my insesent rambling =)

P.S. This is also Mr. Phony Mick Ring Ring, I have two accounts and im not sure how that happened Heh.
 
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