Question - Raid Composition?

[Slade the Magician]

I have been playing a lot lately. The anniversary event giving me an opportunity to get everyone a clicky PoK porter. I made it a goal to make one of every class, just for representation. That accounted for several groups of characters, leveling them a bit (roughly 60-80), and just casually enjoying them. I figured, well I already have ~3 groups of characters made... Maybe I could make enough characters to fill a raid? Sure I could make more groups of characters, I suppose, but what is a good composition for a raid? I wouldn't want to make a bunch of groups just to play around with, and find out a bunch of them aren't useful to bring along. I have not raided anything in Live EQ since Velious Temple of Veeshan was end game.

I know a few people here play enough characters to raid stuff. Just curious what breakdown you have for an effective raid. What do you limit? What IS your limit? Three of each class? 5 Clerics? 1 Enchanter? You tell me!
This is by no means a commitment to actually go raiding solo any time soon, if that is even feasible as a single person boxing 50+ characters. I am curious what effective raids looks like in our community given the tools we have available to us.

 

[durango773]

depends what era. old stuff /faceroll.. all mages but 2.. make em shaman..

TBL and newer, 3 war+, 4+ cleric, 2+ SK, 1 pal, 3+ shaman, 2 chanter, 1 ranger, 1+ dru (depends on dps makeup) 1+ bst (depends on dps makeup), 4+ bard, 1 or 2 necros, fill the rest with dps of choice. zerkers are good, rogues are good, mages are good.. doesnt mean cant throw a wizard or monk, just dont bring alot to the table.

 

[Szazor]

my class makeup is in my signature.

It is a really good thing to plan out before you commit to 54 toons.

Its never going to be perfect for every raid - but its great fun doing old raids.

 

[Slade the Magician]

my class makeup is in my signature.

It is a really good thing to plan out before you commit to 54 toons.

Its never going to be perfect for every raid - but its great fun doing old raids.

That's exactly why I was asking if there are some "must haves" outside of obviously Warriors, Clerics, and Bards. Not to mention how many approximately of those essentials.

I plan to play exclusively on Test, so everyone would be Gold status, and whatever the current free to play expansion goes up to. TBL or EoK I believe currently.

I was just making random characters initially to fill out groups, but was mindful to spread out what kinda tanks and healers each group had. Adding a bit of structure is the goal.

depends what era. old stuff /faceroll.. all mages but 2.. make em shaman..

TBL and newer, 3 war+, 4+ cleric, 2+ SK, 1 pal, 3+ shaman, 2 chanter, 1 ranger, 1+ dru (depends on dps makeup) 1+ bst (depends on dps makeup), 4+ bard, 1 or 2 necros, fill the rest with dps of choice. zerkers are good, rogues are good, mages are good.. doesnt mean cant throw a wizard or monk, just dont bring alot to the table.

This is super helpful! I appreciate the breakdown of what class and how many. I honestly never would have thought that many tanks was necessary. I've been accustomed to raids consisting of maybe 3 tanks, sometimes 2 if they were over geared.

Looks like a healthy helping of Clerics, Shamans, and Bards for sure. I was unsure of things like Druid. I made one to have one of each class still, but looks like probably just stick with one for buffs or prevent rot loot. Shame they aren't shining as much.

 

[Szazor]

I asked a similar question to this, and there was very useful replies.

https://www.redguides.com/community/threads/the-last-2-grps.75029/

Druids are actually are a really great class - they do need a bit of Un-nerfing - but on a raid they do hold their own dps wise.

Dont neglect the caster groups - Wizards/Mages/ENC are much stronger in Raid than they are in group situation. With correct synergies, casters will be in the top 10 of your raid, usually in shit FTP gear too.

I have more wizards than mages, but only because I love Wizard Class. It has been improved in TOL, but its still behind where it should be in my humble opinion. From a DPS perspective, It probably would have been good to have more mages than Wizards.

 

[Slade the Magician]

How complex are raids in current EQ? So complex a single person can't do them reliably? Mostly tank and spank DPS checks?

I have more wizards than mages, but only because I love Wizard Class. It has been improved in TOL, but its still behind where it should be in my humble opinion. From a DPS perspective, It probably would have been good to have more mages than Wizards.

When I played Shards of Dalaya (EQ Emu server) they used the comparison for melee DPS and casters DPS being similar to a sewing machine and a cannon. Sewing machine (melee) should attack fast and for minor/moderate damage. Cannon (casters) should take a while to cast their spell or prep their big damage then absolute devastate the enemy. I liked the analogy, despite it not really holding up in EQ.

 

[Knightly]

Today was the first day I ever thought about a sewing machine in battle, so thank you for that mental image.

With enough scripting, you can overcome anything, but modern raid mechanics are unique so there wouldn’t be a “one size fits all” script for it. You’d just be writing for each raid.

 

[Slade the Magician]

Today was the first day I ever thought about a sewing machine in battle, so thank you for that mental image.

With enough scripting, you can overcome anything, but modern raid mechanics are unique so there wouldn’t be a “one size fits all” script for it. You’d just be writing for each raid.

When I think sewing machine DPS I primarily think it Rogues. Little pokies stabbing so fast. Like lightning.

From the sounds of it, raids are a straight forward pull a few trash then kill a boss without much in the way of mechanics. Sounds more like there are actually things that need to be done during the fights.

I'll have to watch some YouTube videos of raid encounters once I get to a point where I can do them. I feel like it'll be a ways out though. I don't even have a single max level character, let alone max AA, geared, or anything.

One step at a time though

 

[tegas]

This my current make up: bards in every group. Can do majority of cov raids. Couple TOL. Some raids you need one tank, while others you need up to 9. That’s my current obstacle. I’ve got luas that handle off tanking x targets and then they switch back to chasing main assist.

 

[Slade the Magician]

This my current make up: bards in every group. Can do majority of cov raids. Couple TOL. Some raids you need one tank, while others you need up to 9. That’s my current obstacle. I’ve got luas that handle off tanking x targets and then they switch back to chasing main assist.

That's a lot of Bersekers and Mages. I love it. Also at least a representation of every class too, even if it's just one. I can appreciate that.

 

[Sic]

This my current make up: bards in every group. Can do majority of cov raids. Couple TOL. Some raids you need one tank, while others you need up to 9. That’s my current obstacle. I’ve got luas that handle off tanking x targets and then they switch back to chasing main assist.

You are a damn inspiration

 

[tegas]

That's a lot of Bersekers and Mages. I love it. Also at least a representation of every class too, even if it's just one. I can appreciate that.

Sadly I have left out any monks right now. Sorry Hylander.

 

[Slade the Magician]

Oh, I did miss Monk. That's wacky. Aren't Berserkers really just chain wearing, axe wielding, nothing at all like a Monk, Monks?

This my current make up: bards in every group. Can do majority of cov raids. Couple TOL. Some raids you need one tank, while others you need up to 9. That’s my current obstacle. I’ve got luas that handle off tanking x targets and then they switch back to chasing main assist.

9 Tanks? That's bananas. How common is something like that?
A Bard in every group sounds awesome, but for completely negligible reasons I'm sure, in terms of raiding. The run speed and fading memories, which is my only real interactions with Bards outside of buff songs, during grouping.

 

[tegas]

Bards increase group dps dramatically. Casters and melee. Speed is a nice bonus. Also really nice to have double invis handy when grinding back aa and xp lost in raids.

 

[durango773]

Oh, I did miss Monk. That's wacky. Aren't Berserkers really just chain wearing, axe wielding, nothing at all like a Monk, Monks?



9 Tanks? That's bananas. How common is something like that?
A Bard in every group sounds awesome, but for completely negligible reasons I'm sure, in terms of raiding. The run speed and fading memories, which is my only real interactions with Bards outside of buff songs, during grouping.

Bards help every group they are in. atk, regens, mitgation, melee proc, spell proc, agro reducers, agro builders...and do pretty good dps. Kland, defenders (cov) and Swarm commander, Primal vampire all require large tankage.

Let me be clear, i dont 54 man raids, ive ran up to 24 on a raid, and about had a stroke.

It does take coustom script work as pointed out also.

 

[Mikey02]

Does MQNext provide a way to detect raid mechanics such as ground aoe

This my current make up: bards in every group. Can do majority of cov raids. Couple TOL. Some raids you need one tank, while others you need up to 9. That’s my current obstacle. I’ve got luas that handle off tanking x targets and then they switch back to chasing main assist.

If you had to do it again, would you keep the same dps classes?

 

[Szazor]

Does MQNext provide a way to detect raid mechanics such as ground aoe

Not really. Some raids with really complex scripts or that require weird mechanics are really hard to solo. Take TOFS 1 for example. The Mechanics of the Ice makes this just silly to try and automate - and I haven't even bothered trying.

Most AOE is preceded by an emote of some description, so MQ2Events allows you to make some really helpful triggers. A raid of 54 Bots can actually be more reliable than a raid of 54 real people who aren't paying attention.
The introduction of Lua scripts has raised the bar yet again. If toons have to do it in a raid - then you can probably write a script to handle that mechanic.


The best thing is to start small. COTF or Rain of Fear had great raids that you should be able to handle as a boxer. You can zerg some..but others actually need to do mechanics. Start with those. Gear up your 54 toons, and use with Zlandicar in COV as a benchmark. You are not going to get an easier raid than Zlandicar.

I for one dont have regrets about DPS classes, nor do I have a BRD in every group like Tegas.

I favor Rogue over Zerker - and I like Wizards and live in the hope they will be completely un-nerfed.
Just like Tegas, I also have no Monk in my lineup. I dunno why - but Monk just doesnt add anything that I cant get with someone else.

 

[Mikey02]

Thanks. I liked raiding in EQ2 because I only had to maintained 4 teams, and raid there is a lot easier because Asmo goes in and actually code all the data type for new events.

I like to get back into raiding but fielding 54 chars seems like a daunting task. Highest I've gone is 6 teams.

 

[MadaSnave]

When I played Shards of Dalaya (EQ Emu server) they used the comparison for melee DPS and casters DPS being similar to a sewing machine and a cannon. Sewing machine (melee) should attack fast and for minor/moderate damage. Cannon (casters) should take a while to cast their spell or prep their big damage then absolute devastate the enemy. I liked the analogy, despite it not really holding up in EQ.

Today was the first day I ever thought about a sewing machine in battle, so thank you for that mental image.

With enough scripting, you can overcome anything, but modern raid mechanics are unique so there wouldn’t be a “one size fits all” script for it. You’d just be writing for each raid.

not really sewing machine, but for making rugs....

 

[Naeeldar]

This my current make up: bards in every group. Can do majority of cov raids. Couple TOL. Some raids you need one tank, while others you need up to 9. That’s my current obstacle. I’ve got luas that handle off tanking x targets and then they switch back to chasing main assist.

So I think I’ve been mismanaging some of my macros/scripts. Recently started doing raids - my biggest challenge so far has effectively managing the offtanking. For example on queen Sendaiii etc.. At 50 chars with a well banalced raid no problem for a lot of raids but so far the off tanking ones have been the biggest pain in the ass.

I guess i missed the option but from your post is it safe to assume the Lua you run on certain tanks looks for XTAR mobs and picks them up? Right now in the content I’m in I’m running 6 tanks (4 war, 1 pal, 1 sk) but those mass off tanking fights are a pita if I can’t dps through.

 

[Sum1]

Going full rogue and no zerkers means you’re leaving War Cry off the table, which is a hit to your overall raid dps. Same if you opt to not use enough rangers (auspice). All modern raids have a dps check component (which is bullshit, but I digress). It’s really important to incorporate capabilities from a well-rounded raid force.

Also, the raising of the number of negative effects on mobs means you can run more than 2 necros, which is actually a huge potential boost in dps.

 

[Sashimie]

So I think I’ve been mismanaging some of my macros/scripts. Recently started doing raids - my biggest challenge so far has effectively managing the offtanking. For example on queen Sendaiii etc.. At 50 chars with a well banalced raid no problem for a lot of raids but so far the off tanking ones have been the biggest pain in the ass.

I guess i missed the option but from your post is it safe to assume the LUA you run on certain tanks looks for XTAR mobs and picks them up? Right now in the content I’m in I’m running 6 tanks (4 war, 1 pal, 1 sk) but those mass off tanking fights are a pita if I can’t dps through.

I use an “offtankthis” key on my driver toon which pointed my offtank towards a new target, put him in I think manual or sictank mode, then sticks to it.

You can test this setup in a safe environment by running Anguish Keldovan and picking up the adds.

Edit: this key also useful for getting for example an extra monk to run around popping low hp adds without shifting your raids main focus. Just edit who you /dex to do things.

 

[durango773]

Going full rogue and no zerkers means you’re leaving War Cry off the table, which is a hit to your overall raid dps. Same if you opt to not use enough rangers (auspice). All modern raids have a dps check component (which is bullshit, but I digress). It’s really important to incorporate capabilities from a well-rounded raid force.

Also, the raising of the number of negative effects on mobs means you can run more than 2 necros, which is actually a huge potential boost in dps.

Yes, that change out of left field is nice. The semi nerf to rogues and rangers sucks.. and zerker DPS growth didnt keep pace with ToL.. so my raid team is adding +2 necros.

 

[Naeeldar]

I use an “offtankthis” key on my driver toon which pointed my offtank towards a new target, put him in I think manual or sictank mode, then sticks to it.

You can test this setup in a safe environment by running Anguish Keldovan and picking up the adds.

Edit: this key also useful for getting for example an extra monk to run around popping low hp adds without shifting your raids main focus. Just edit who you /dex to do things.

So that’s interesting. Safe to assume you have multiple offtank keys for each tank then? When they kill the mob is it something you worry about later for putting back into an assist mode? I.e. After raid is done?

Lately i’ve been driving the actual fights from one of my offtank tanks because then I’m not clicking on and off on the raid tank the Big mob. So it would be easy to roll in your offtank commands.