Question - Opinions on box team switchup (1 Viewer)

[Hanlons Razor]

Resolved, read edit below.

Hi guys! I'm thinking about replacing some chars in my box team and would like some opinions.

Right now I have:
SK (85 with 2.5k AAs)
Monk (86 with 2.5k AAs)
Bard (85 with 1k AAs)
Sham (85 with 1k AAs)
Druid (85 with 1k AAs)
Mage (85 with 1k AAs)

The SK, Monk, and Bard are staying - the monk is my main and SK/Bard are just so useful that I couldn't imagine replacing them.

So with that said, the three that I might swap:

Mage - I love the utility, damage shield and the pet toys to go around, but I'm not particularly impressed by the DPS output. I've got kissassist setup pretty well, but her DPS is being matched by my SK and doubled by my monk consistently on both burn and sustained. Is this going to change by level 100? I will eventually go gold on this account, so I understand if it requires more AAs.

Sham - Decent healer and I love the buffs/debuffs, but DPS if needed is pathetic. I know he adds solid Adps to all the pets and the tank/monk, so I would like to keep him around.

Druid - Love the utility of ports/evac/succor, but everything else is pretty weak. DPS is poor and very inefficient on mana, healing is equivalent to sham at best. Synergy with my other chars is nil.

I have considered keeping the mage and replacing dru/sham with wiz/cleric, or just replacing the druid with a wizard and keeping the sham. There are also melee classes to think about, but they do require more effort with AAs/gear and macro setup to be competitive.

EDIT:

Ended up going with these:
SK
Mnk
Clr
Shm
Wiz
Brd

I've found that this team does very respectable DPS and is tough as nails when pulling current-content zones. At 85, they were able to handle T7/T8 UF zones on AFK macro mode - and now able to handle VoA T2 at 92 AFK.

Above I was debating how useful the shaman is, but with this team dynamic he's actually amazing. If I'm chain pulling tough mobs and a LOT of healing needs to go out I switch his healing %ages higher than my cleric and being the infinite mana battery that he is, my team keeps chugging along without the healers running OOM. If the mobs are easy enough that the cleric can basically solo heal without going OOM, the shaman goes on full debuff/DPS mode and can actually do a decent little chunk of damage (8-10% of each mob's life).

As far as DPS, the monk has been consistently doing more sustained DPS than my wiz - and this is with the wizard chaining ethereals going all out at all times. The sustained with a decent kiss/mq2melee setup is very impressive. My wizard only out DPSes him on named burns but the the amount of damage done on those burns is amazing and completely worth it. Below is a summary of about 500 mobs to give an idea of overall damage. The monk is burning about 20k DPS and the wizard 35-40k.

Combined: 171664k @20687dps ---Monk 55218k @6659dps (32.17%) --- Wizard 51088k @6165dps (29.76%) --- Shadowknight + pets 35577k @4288dps (20.73%) --- Bard + pets 18942k @2285dps (11.03%) --- Shaman + pets 10827k @1306dps (6.31%) --- Cleric 11k @10dps (0.01%)

The cleric's huge heals plus in-combat ressing works much better than the previous druid/sham combo. Shining rampart makes swarming easymode, also.

 

[tms]

Hi guys! I'm thinking about replacing some chars in my box team and would like some opinions.

Right now I have:
SK (85 with 2.5k AAs)
Monk (86 with 2.5k AAs)
Bard (85 with 1k AAs)
Sham (85 with 1k AAs)
Druid (85 with 1k AAs)
Mage (85 with 1k AAs)

The SK, Monk, and Bard are staying - the monk is my main and SK/Bard are just so useful that I couldn't imagine replacing them.

So with that said, the three that I might swap:

Mage - I love the utility, damage shield and the pet toys to go around, but I'm not particularly impressed by the DPS output. I've got kissassist setup pretty well, but her DPS is being matched by my SK and doubled by my monk consistently on both burn and sustained. Is this going to change by level 100? I will eventually go gold on this account, so I understand if it requires more AAs.

Sham - Decent healer and I love the buffs/debuffs, but DPS if needed is pathetic. I know he adds solid Adps to all the pets and the tank/monk, so I would like to keep him around.

Druid - Love the utility of ports/evac/succor, but everything else is pretty weak. DPS is poor and very inefficient on mana, healing is equivalent to sham at best. Synergy with my other chars is nil.

I have considered keeping the mage and replacing dru/sham with wiz/cleric, or just replacing the druid with a wizard and keeping the sham. There are also melee classes to think about, but they do require more effort with AAs/gear and macro setup to be competitive.

Glad to hand out redcents for good feedback!

Since your SK/MNK/BRD are staying, we will look at the other 3 spots.

The Mage i would keep, just because he brings pretty nice utility and good dps.
Keep also in mind, if you ditch the mage AND the shm you will loose malo.
DPS wise should your mage be higher on the dps meter than your sk. With maxed pet aa's and dmg aa's from the mage atleast. If he's silver and got no more than 1000 aa's then thats pretty low (aawise). You could do an dmg parse on an target dummy for 5 minutes, i think the dmg will be different. My Mage debuffs before he starts to dps, and since my sk tanks he starts later than the sk, stops earlier (no nukes <20%) and i do malosinete and then Malosene on the mob before i start to nuke.

On trashmobs that means he do ony like 50% of the time dmg.

anyway:

With your shaman you have an slower, haste is covered with the bard. He brings some good heals and buffs.
The Druid brings ports, evacs, some heals and some dps

I would change the Druid with an Wizard : You have your ports and you have very good dps, and he's easy to box also. IMHO thats an no brainer.

I find it hard with the shm/cle decission, because if you ditch the shm you loose some good buffs, but what hurts more: you will loose your slow. The Bardslow just sucks. On the other hand, i am not sure if the heals from an botted! shaman will be enough in the later groupgame. And thats the reason why i would ditch the shm for the cle, and just tank the mobs unslowed (trash) or bardslowed (bosses).

So, i just realize thats basically more or less exact what you wrote.

 

[Hanlons Razor]

Yeah that pretty much mirrors my thoughts. I'm thinking the sham would have to stay well geared/AA'd to be the only healer and my SK will need to outgear content as I do it. Sham slow + heals vs Cleric heals and bard slow may be a tossup so I'm having a hard choice on this one.

Now what about Bst/cleric instead of sham/wiz or wiz/cleric? I know the bst will do considerably less DPS than wiz on burst, but he brings a slow and ghetto unity with solid sustained DPS - plus my bard can focus on melee songs.

 

[beastdaddy]

Bsts are AWESOME but I am biased I guess. They do exceptional dps, pets can tank, have slow, have shm buffs albeit shorter duration, SE, Fero. Plus handle damage via discs well. And tbh I can heal a properly geared tank with my bst as a main healer if it came to it.

 

[Hanlons Razor]

Bsts are AWESOME but I am biased I guess. They do exceptional dps, pets can tank, have slow, have shm buffs albeit shorter duration, SE, Fero. Plus handle damage via discs well. And tbh I can heal a properly geared tank with my bst as a main healer if it came to it.

Might have to replace sham with Bst... I am a fan of melee classes, Wiz seems a bit boring. Would hate to give up all the porting utility.

 

[Oadno]

I would totally go with the Beast/Cleric/Wiz changes to your team. I have a lvl 100 shaman that now pretty much just buffs before I head out. The beast typically doesn't have any issues slowing mobs and does add good DPS. The cleric is just so much easier to heal with than a shaman or druid and the 2 auras/shining proc line are awesome. My wiz is pretty much totally automated. He tash's at first attack (go-go Tash orb) and starts nuking. Only thing I miss at all is the shaman Epic Clicky for burns and I was kinda fond of the Counterbias line of slows. BTW my box team is SK/Ranger/Cleric/Bard/BL/Wiz . I have a 100 monk 100 Zerker 100 necro and 100 shaman I can swap in there but I really like the way this team works together. Of course AAs make or break a toon, but it is so easy now days to get 4k plus AAs just doing those stupid daily tasks that it almost isn't even worth mentioning.

 

[tms]

Might have to replace sham with Bst... I am a fan of melee classes, Wiz seems a bit boring. Would hate to give up all the porting utility.

Keeping the Druid (ports, heals), replacing shaman with bst (buffs, backupheals) is a good idea (however i am not a fan of botted! (not boxed!) melees) could be a nice option, keep in mind: To many botted melees and it's pretty obvious they are botted.

The question stays: Will be the heals from an druid (even with backupheals from the bst) be enough for the L100 T4 Groupgame (i dont know!)?

You have to keep in mind, vs bosses you can allways ditch an groupmember for an t5 cle merc.

 

[Hanlons Razor]

My main two considerations right now are this:

SK+Monk+Brd+Wiz+Mage+Sham - Simply replacing the Druid with a Wizard. Keep the port utility, but pick up a TON of dps in exchange for reduced healing. My SK, bard and sham will need to be well geared/AA'd for the content due to reduced healing. This means keeping up on aug camps and buying T1 gear each expansion... not something I'm opposed to.

SK+Monk+Brd+Mage+Cleric+Bst - Pros: More melee/pet synergy, Much stronger healing, Cleric shining armor buff to help swarm content earlier and easier than I could otherwise. Cons: No port utility and ghetto sham buffs, more melee being botted, and above team will probably burn higher dps.

I do appreciate the help so far all. I wasn't considering the extra melee being botted and looking more suspicious. That's certainly a concern. It's easier to say I'm just boxing when the melee classes aren't /sticking to targets like glue. Also, I'm only rerolling one character when swapping druid for Wiz. Leaning towards option #1 right now!

 

[tms]

My main two considerations right now are this:

SK+Monk+Brd+Wiz+Mage+Sham - Simply replacing the Druid with a Wizard. Keep the port utility, but pick up a TON of dps in exchange for reduced healing. My SK, bard and sham will need to be well geared/AA'd for the content due to reduced healing. This means keeping up on aug camps and buying T1 gear each expansion... not something I'm opposed to.

SK+Monk+Brd+Mage+Cleric+Bst - Pros: More melee/pet synergy, Cleric shining armor buff to help swarm content earlier and easier than I could otherwise. Cons: No port utility and ghetto sham buffs, more melee being botted, and above team will probably burn higher dps.
!

Maybe WIZ+CLE+BST is an Option ? If you reroll one or two or three characters doesent really makes an difference, can powerlevel them to 65 grouped in one day, after this you just group them with our high levels and continue with your grind. They will catchup pretty fast. Stop an grind some AA, while going to levelxp on the rerolled chars. (i do the same currently, and my wiz is at lv 81/1000 after 2 days).

With wiz+cle+bst you have buffs, ports, slows, very good heals.

I know, this would be a bit of work and you loose like 2-4 weeks to get them on par, but in the end ...

I personaly just think, that it would be better to have an full healer. If you now reroll only your dru to wiz, it could be that you later regret it. Then all your work would be void.

And SK/MNK/BRD/WIZ/CLE/BST is a pretty good combo.

 

[Hanlons Razor]

Maybe WIZ+CLE+BST is an Option ? If you reroll one or two or three characters doesent really makes an difference, can powerlevel them to 65 grouped in one day, after this you just group them with our high levels and continue with your grind. They will catchup pretty fast. Stop an grind some AA, while going to levelxp on the rerolled chars. (i do the same currently, and my wiz is at lv 81/1000 after 2 days).

With wiz+cle+bst you have buffs, ports, slows, very good heals.

I know, this would be a bit of work and you loose like 2-4 weeks to get them on par, but in the end ...

I personaly just think, that it would be better to have an full healer. If you now reroll only your dru to wiz, it could be that you later regret it. Then all your work would be void.

And SK/MNK/BRD/WIZ/CLE/BST is a pretty good combo.

I *have* been disappointed with the mage and the disadvantages to going cler/bst disappear when I swap mage for wiz, so now you've pretty much got me convinced. I'm sure with SK/bard between swarming and DS PLing, I can get the alts up to 80/1k in the matter of a few days. My SK was created only 2 weeks ago haha.

 

[Hanlons Razor]

So with this group of SK/MNK/BRD/WIZ/CLE/BST - I've just realized I'll lose malo. I know the bard can get some tash clickies and has HoS... is it worth putting HoS into his combat twist for the wizard to nuke? If not, I wonder if a wizard nuking non-debuffed vs a mage nuking with malo would favor the mage. Any opinions on this? I have the wizard up to 80/500AAs already, but not quite up with the mage. I guess Wiz/Bst could be Wiz/Shm or Mag/Bst instead if one might work better.

 

[Maskoi]

I would personally drop the monk for the mage. Malo, mage aura and pet toys affect Sk and BST pets plus DS that gets big push from bard songs. also stuns from air pet. Truthfully MQ2Melee and Kiss do not reach the full potential of DPS on a monk because of all the crazy combo shit you have to do. Mage DPS much closer to max.

 

[Dutch_SK]

How is bard mezzing with Kiss? Like how many can he keep mezzed without loosing too many buff songs?

Imo bard songs bring more DPS and regen to the group then an ENC, but ENC mezzing is superior afaik.

 

[Maskoi]

the bard can lock down up to 5 I think last time i played mine. I orginally wrote Kiss around my bard because no other macro handles them well si i spent a lot of time on the mez.

 

[Dutch_SK]

Then I don't see that an Enchanter can be better as a Bard cause I never pull more then 3 or 4.

And Bard buffs > Enc buffs

 

[tms]

Then I don't see that an Enchanter can be better as a Bard cause I never pull more then 3 or 4.

And Bard buffs > Enc buffs

You realize that he wont play other songs while mezzing adds ?

Or at least, per add one song less, depends on how kiss handle this.

If you have a 5 song lineup, in the best case he will only play 4 songs, while mezzing one, or 3, while mezzing 2, 2 while mezzing 3. At a max of 5 mobs he wont be playing any other songs but mezzes.

And as i said, i dont know how kiss handle this:

a.) only mezz, stop playing other songs.
b.) start /twist 1 2 3 4 5 -> /twist hold -> mezz -> /twist start
c.) /twist 1 2 3 4 5 -> mezz -> /twist 1 2 3 4 5

in every case, buffs will drop. More mezzes : more buffs will drop.

- - - Updated - - -

I would personally drop the monk for the mage. Malo, mage aura and pet toys affect Sk and BST pets plus DS that gets big push from bard songs. also stuns from air pet. Truthfully MQ2Melee and Kiss do not reach the full potential of DPS on a monk because of all the crazy combo shit you have to do. Mage DPS much closer to max.

I would do the same, but the monk is his main

 

[Dutch_SK]

Yeah I realize that, that's the reason I asked how many mobs a bard can mezz without loosing too many bard songs.

Just need Aria and 1 or 2 regen songs (Got BST haste for backup) to keep singing, so 2 or 3 mobs mezzed should be doable in the best case scenario?

 

[tms]

Yeah I realize that, that's the reason I asked how many mobs a bard can mezz without loosing too many bard songs.

Just need Aria and 1 or 2 regen songs to keep singing, so 2 or 3 mobs mezzed should be doable in the best case scenario?

If you only use aria and 1 or 2 regen song the bard is wasted.

(Got BST haste for backup)

Thats a pretty crappy backup

Hastening of Sviir Rk. II	ENC/100	 GROUP  V2
2: Increase AGI by 194 
3: Increase DEX by 162 
4: Increase ATK by 170 
5: Increase Attack Speed by 68% 
6: Increase Chance to Critical Hit by 35% with All Skills
7: Increase Chance to Triple Attack by 22% 
8: Increase Critical Damage by 14% with All Skills

Alacrity	BST/60  SINGLE 
1: Increase Attack Speed by 32% (L21) to 40% (L36)

 

[Dutch_SK]

It's only during mezzes ofcourse, on normal pulls the bard will have 5 songs up.

Exceptional Velocity gives 55% or something I think, with Aria still better then single Enc I think?

Guess it will all depend on how good the puller is on single pulling or would you go with an Enchanter in either way?

 

[tms]

Exceptional Velocity gives 55% or something I think, with Aria still better then single Enc I think?

Do me a favor and try to cast Exceptional Velocity on an player :-)

if no mezzes are needed and the bard is not pulling (maybe even then) i would take the bard.

 

[Dutch_SK]

Your pet does, as soon as you cast it on your pet it casts it on his group or am I mistaken here?

It has a recourse effect.

EDIT: Convinced it needs to be an enc, I had not considered the pulling part, so it's definately going to be an enchanter /appreciate

 

[Hanlons Razor]

I would like to swap the monk for something higher utility, but he's my main and I'm just not doing it. Plus I have a pretty complicated downshit setup which along with some basics in kissassist keeps his DPS pretty impressive. It's definitely not tops on burns at this level, but at 96+ it will be easier to do so since heel takes over as top burn disc instead of the classic special attack disc > special attacks > click off and cast speedfocus deal. At 85, he's doing 40-45% of my group's total DPS.

Right now my main debate is between the shaman and beastlord. I know my group will do more total DPS with the beast (and mana regen), but the sham adds nice Adps, debuffs, and a large increase in group safety when afk botting or doing difficult/current content. Also, talisman of celerity is indeed nice to have around when my bard is mezzing a few adds and not keeping war march up consistently. Another thing to keep in mind is the sham 2.0 effect on monk burn DPS... monks rely on giant crits from crane/thunder kick procs and sham epic greatly amplifies those.

 

[Oadno]

Just to add confusion to the Haste discussion , if you are keeping the bard, you need to farm Songblade of the Eternal from PoTime. It is a clicky that casts 60% haste to the whole grp. Not anywhere as good as chanter haste because of the added effects beyond haste, but no need for the BL to haste anyone. That and most any waist item 80+ will get you to the v2 haste cap. It doesn't drop super often, but it's not exactly a rare drop imo and their is a Tacvi item with the same clicky although I have never had to farm it.

 

[tms]

Just to add confusion to the Haste discussion , if you are keeping the bard, you need to farm Songblade of the Eternal from PoTime. It is a clicky that casts 60% haste to the whole grp. Not anywhere as good as chanter haste because of the added effects beyond haste, but no need for the BL to haste anyone. That and most any waist item 80+ will get you to the v2 haste cap. It doesn't drop super often, but it's not exactly a rare drop imo and their is a Tacvi item with the same clicky although I have never had to farm it.

Rapier of Somber Notes from Tacvi and Songblade of the Eternal from Plane of Time

It's not more rare than any other drop from the boss, but they have a large loottable and i saw bards farming time 50 times without songblade.

 

[Hanlons Razor]

I ended up going with this:

SK, Mnk, Cle, Shm, Brd, Wiz

I know this is a relatively low DPS group with too much support, but the monk and wizard can attain very high burst DPS and both are excellent sustained, especially with all the support in the group. I'm trying to do group content at appropriate levels/gear and 2 healers adds a lot of safety for this. I can deal with the reduced killing speed while grinding/afk.

Once they're all 100 and solid on AAs, I may move the cleric out of group and add the mage in his place.

edit: new chars are up to 85/1.5k AAs while my original team members are all 86 and over 3k. They're now successfully afk boxing T8 UF with no deaths and no sweat, even with my SK face pulling up to 5 mobs.

 

[elerick]

I am returning to the game and would like to do a full group of silver accounts 1k/AA cap. What would be the sturdiest group to see the game that i missed over the years? I am locked to 18/20 expansions and cap at 95.

I love my monk but i notice everyone saying he doesn't offer enough utility in the above discussions. At this point i am trying to research and am having a heck of a time since allakhazam is so restricted if you don't pay.

 

[Dutch_SK]

Biggest problem would be a tank I guess, with 1k AA and no decent aug set.

Think u can build a decent mage pet tank with only 1k AA, you lock out a melee class then though, but more then enough choice for a caster only group.

 

[elerick]

right now i am doing monk + healer merc, Wizard + healer merc, then rest of group. im not opposed to dropping a SK with 1kaa for a merc if necessary at higher levels

 

[Hanlons Razor]

Only way to tank decent content at 95 with 1k AAs is going to be a mage with everything invested in pet AAs and EM12+ focus. My SK had 1k AAs by 75 and still has a ton to go with 4.5k @ level 92. Not to mention augs that will require gold.

If you want to keep the monk, you'll need to go gold on your tank IMO.

 

[elerick]

I think that I'm ok with going gold on a single account. I'm not totally thifty but this game adds up with each little expense.

 

[Hanlons Razor]

I think that I'm ok with going gold on a single account. I'm not totally thifty but this game adds up with each little expense.

I ended up going gold on my SK by level 70 after realizing he was going to need some serious AAs/Augs to tank well enough. He's now level 92 with 4.5k AAs, 90k HP and 7.6k AC fully buffed by my team and we can pull off just about anything that a group of live level 92 players could.

 

[wowfool]

I would think a box team like that could get enough plat to Krono one account, even with the skyrocketing prices.

 

[Hanlons Razor]

I would think a box team like that could get enough plat to Krono one account, even with the skyrocketing prices.

The camp I'm currently doing is pulling about 75k/8hours