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yes, as always you can't willy-nilly byos --- i misread that elemental is the lower version of purifying - but it is fire/cold/magic and magic/poison/disease heh.
I'll update.
you also don't get an error/stacking msg from eq that you can't use both elemental and purifying - which is obnoxious and one of the reasons some of the lower level stuff is left
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ChatWithThisName updated MQ2Bard with a new update entry:
09/17/2024c
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09/17/2024c
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Tested with..... 2 or 3 or 4 builds back (So like.. yesterdays build?)
Used bard with a meleedots config in vorpal. Did not epic, QT, or FE. This seems to have been patched/fixx0red already. Superb - I need to update and re-evaluate.
As I typically operate a bard in a tank/melee dps group, meleedots is my "go to" and i'd personally never use the rest. Understand Amplification is not configured (sad, but okay). The real question, is why are we using Potato Song of Suffering, over Arcane Potato? What I've seen in bard discord and personal experience, suffering doesn't seem to proc enough to justify using it although its procs are larger. Arcane seems to fire off more frequently, but of course for a smidge less. My understanding (and it may in fact be flawed) is that Arcane offers both caster and melee groups a better solution than Suffering would.
Is that not the case or is there other justification for using Suffering over Arcane? Am I somehow missing out general knowledge? Maybe the setup can be better? I am unsure and curious about this.
Arguably, I'd like to see our "adps" songs for melee/melee dots (such as war march and aria) already be rolling pre-fight, so we can get on to other things like slathering dots, epics, flinging potatoes, etc and refreshing those 'always up" sorts of songs as needed. Obviously there's some preference there. Thinking out loud looking for a min/max.
Used bard with a meleedots config in vorpal. Did not epic, QT, or FE. This seems to have been patched/fixx0red already. Superb - I need to update and re-evaluate.
As I typically operate a bard in a tank/melee dps group, meleedots is my "go to" and i'd personally never use the rest. Understand Amplification is not configured (sad, but okay). The real question, is why are we using Potato Song of Suffering, over Arcane Potato? What I've seen in bard discord and personal experience, suffering doesn't seem to proc enough to justify using it although its procs are larger. Arcane seems to fire off more frequently, but of course for a smidge less. My understanding (and it may in fact be flawed) is that Arcane offers both caster and melee groups a better solution than Suffering would.
Is that not the case or is there other justification for using Suffering over Arcane? Am I somehow missing out general knowledge? Maybe the setup can be better? I am unsure and curious about this.
Arguably, I'd like to see our "adps" songs for melee/melee dots (such as war march and aria) already be rolling pre-fight, so we can get on to other things like slathering dots, epics, flinging potatoes, etc and refreshing those 'always up" sorts of songs as needed. Obviously there's some preference there. Thinking out loud looking for a min/max.
I love the plugin. If any change I would make would be that when I uncheck useAoEmez that the plugin in not require that song for gem9. There is pretty much 1 song missing from all the loads outs that I use mainly cause I never use the mez songs. Would be nice not to have to BYOS, delete aoe mez from gem 9, and then mem the song I like for each of the load outs. Even with this issue playing with my grp and or grps in my own raids has been soooooo much nicer. The bard is always where they should be doing what they should be doing. They also never break invs anymore and train the crap out of me.
the only thing fixed was using the command to change when to use epic. so if you had it set to shaman buff, and you didn't have a shaman, for example, that would cause that
It looks like somewhere usage of quicktime got smashed with something else, so i'll correct that, thanks for that note
FE is tied with epic usage, so i imagine once your epic usage is sorted out, FE will be too
it is, it just isn't in a loadout - byos/byos-custom if you want to use amplification - It was in the vid / faq
Q. Amplification makes frenzied kicks go ham, y no memorize?
A. you can byos/byos-custom if you want to use Amplification. We check Amplification for normal usage, and prioritize it if Frenzied Kicks is active.
I'm happy with suffering/arcane usage, you can always use casterdots loadout if you want the casterdots arcane proc. I do know that some guilds / servers were reporting issues with proc songs like suffering and arcane, so i'm curious if that's where that comes from. but yeah you can just swap to casterdots to get what you want np
yeah this is a tough one - this falls into the "have you thought of xyz" from the FAQ. It is something i've thought a lot about - I'll give it some more thoughts and see what some changes or options are. Aria and War march are obvious choices - but the idea of just 24/7 rolling around keeping stuff up starts getting into the "obviously botting / sketchy behavior" territory but the same argument can be made for eskay/paladin keeping their self buffs up in non-safe zones.
sure that makes sense to me.
guessing amplification or jonthan?
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ChatWithThisName updated MQ2Bard with a new update entry:
09/18/2024
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Does this use the group or non group overhaste lines?
Please see >>> Getting Started with CWTN plugins! (Movement, UI Window, Clickies, Pulling, ETC) Check Here First! <<<
there's a "how to ask for help" there.but also, there's a pretty easy way to test if it uses something or something-else. try it.
Great job on the plugin, thank you for letting us download and test it out. I played with it for a few hours last night and have a few questions/observations:
Is there a way to set the plugin to chain pull (I know this could be answered in another thread, but may be nice to have a reference in this one)?
Would it be possible to set a song priority or frequency? Arcane XXX with the recent buffs is a pretty strong dps boost in the RoF era currenlty and it'd be great to have that as my every-4th song type of thing for when my casters blow through the charges
Did a dps test in guild hall with BYOS and amp loaded, it did a constant amp loop on me. However out in PvE combat environments it worked much better.
Jonthan's self song, I used BYOS and loaded this song up and the plugin didn't sing it. Is there a way to fix this?
Had the insults going with the push insults enabled, it was by default trying to use lyrin's insult from level 90 versus kaficus or hykast which were the 2 newer versions
I'm very impressed with this plugin overall
Is there a way to set the plugin to chain pull (I know this could be answered in another thread, but may be nice to have a reference in this one)?
Would it be possible to set a song priority or frequency? Arcane XXX with the recent buffs is a pretty strong dps boost in the RoF era currenlty and it'd be great to have that as my every-4th song type of thing for when my casters blow through the charges
Did a dps test in guild hall with BYOS and amp loaded, it did a constant amp loop on me. However out in PvE combat environments it worked much better.
Jonthan's self song, I used BYOS and loaded this song up and the plugin didn't sing it. Is there a way to fix this?
Had the insults going with the push insults enabled, it was by default trying to use lyrin's insult from level 90 versus kaficus or hykast which were the 2 newer versions
I'm very impressed with this plugin overall
no. use whoever is tanking in huntertank with everyone else in chase. we don't think there's much use for old timey "chain pulling"
no. we have priority where we think it should be - having said that, i moved war march/chorus and aria to general downtime, which will make the stuff you do in combat happen more quickly
weird - i'll take a look but haven't seen that
will take a look, i wonder if there was a duplicate when i split them that i missed a while ago --- yes lyrin is in timer 6 also when it should only be timer 6 push - after patch i'd need you to show me you having spells that it isn't saying you do because we check for hykast T3push and kaficus t6push
From what I've read on the bard discord as well as my own experience:
Arcane is good for bard specifically because it's focused by wind instrument mod and they don't cast spells so the charges never drop and end the buff early.
Arcane is also better on hybrids due to benefiting from both the "effect" and the "strike" proc.
Is it game breaking? No. It's a little extra dmg where it wasn't there before.
Of Suffering I'd suspect would be better on pure melee but I don't have parse data to prove it.
Comparing my SKs procs of Arcane Strike vs Kanghammer's Strike. Arcane Strike falls short by about 5k dps.
I byos and run both in my group SK/Brd/Nec/Nec/Shm/Clr
talking about min/maxing and "little extra damage" while running shm and cleric =p
I need that clericFor sure. In this instance, it's a 6 second or 9 second sort of 'warm up' to get aria and war march and anything else up, before we can start dropping dots or something else. I would agree that a bard standing in a safe zone singing all three or more looks suspicious af. It's a super fine line to walk. If bards could rapidly get songs out instead of the 2.5 to 3 sec cast time, it'd be very moot, but thats also sort of a core class mechanic.
It'd be neat if we had some sort of....pre-emptive or precognitive logic (and there might be?) where the plugin recognizes hostile mobs within a radius if we're not invis and 'preps' adps songs as a just in case. Or doesnt start til mobs are on xtar and aggro (ie mobs on the way in). Admittedly Im not sure how to code something like that, or how valuable it'd be just to eek out more combat uptime. And even those examples come with their own sets of problems.
It still looks really good, though!
yep
Missing songs:
guessing amplification or jonthan?
No
1. tank support I replace the gem 9 aoe mez with spite for more ac, proc, and hate.
2. In caster I replace gem9 with the fire focus song if with mages/wiz, and the dot focus song if with necros.
But do not get me wrong I LOVE the plugin... I just play dif than most on some of the classes. Like same with my SK and Paladin. I have to BYOS them 95% of the time because mine are pure DPS. I have asked enough times for a dps load out and heard that is what BYOS is for. I just doing the same with bard... But that one change with aoe mez always loading would fix my BYPS issue.
guessing amplification or jonthan?
No
1. tank support I replace the gem 9 aoe mez with spite for more ac, proc, and hate.
2. In caster I replace gem9 with the fire focus song if with mages/wiz, and the dot focus song if with necros.
But do not get me wrong I LOVE the plugin... I just play dif than most on some of the classes. Like same with my SK and Paladin. I have to BYOS them 95% of the time because mine are pure DPS. I have asked enough times for a dps load out and heard that is what BYOS is for. I just doing the same with bard... But that one change with aoe mez always loading would fix my BYPS issue.
thanks - was just curious - all good homie
yep certainly! thought i already did, but reviewing I did not
Just do what the sham plugin does with its epic, soon as something is on aggro, start the song chain. That aspect of the sham plugin actually annoys me because on a long pull, the epic is sometimes nearly over before the team engages the pull :P Would be plenty good enough that way.
We actually already do. Only dmg/dots are tied to engaging in melee combat, the rest is on xtarget, but again I already made some adjustments.
If you want epic when mobs come on xtarget, use combat
There is not, but we start to try and recast them so as there is no gap.
nah, just don't want the epic firing when the mobs are 30+ seconds away from camp on a long pull, until they're within a reasonable range. It's even worse when pulling a caster. I don't do camp mode very often, so it doesn't affect me too often, but when I do use a camp it is pretty glaring that it fires WAY too quickly and is more than half spent on its timer by the time the mobs arrive to engage. Probably should put that in the sham section though instead of here.
For both bard and shaman that is intentional.
Shammies are very *busy* and can't twiddle their thumbs - it was originally like that when we first started working on mq2shaman, but it was too risky, especially for lesser geared folks.
if you're worried about efficiency, then don't camp pull, or at least move your camp around closer to the mob you're pulling. Or you can pause/unpause toons when you don't want them doing stuff.
That's not really something we're looking to change.
Worked great! Loved it.
The only thing I am not seeing and/or maybe I missed was a way to not melee. I noticed on raid that bard still gets stuck on target making it hard to move when necessary. Only option was to continue to use a re-target key key and come to me button. Which is same as using KA but with KA I would simply turn off melee for those events to avoid issues.
Everything else seemed pretty groovy. I used BYOS to make differnt lineup and it worked well. Really excited to finally have all my toons under one umbrella and commands.
Aweseome work on something that has so many intracies and different use situations to play.
The only thing I am not seeing and/or maybe I missed was a way to not melee. I noticed on raid that bard still gets stuck on target making it hard to move when necessary. Only option was to continue to use a re-target key key and come to me button. Which is same as using KA but with KA I would simply turn off melee for those events to avoid issues.
Everything else seemed pretty groovy. I used BYOS to make differnt lineup and it worked well. Really excited to finally have all my toons under one umbrella and commands.
Aweseome work on something that has so many intracies and different use situations to play.
Thanks for the kind words
Bard works like all other cwtn melee toons. If switchwithma is on, it will clear if the ma/rama clears their target or targets itself. This behavior is "universal".
All of my vids since mid tov uses mq2bard, and you can see my bards backing off as expected - being able to do this is pretty fundamental to being able to have a boxed melee toon, not only in raids, but group content as well.
Turning off melee isn't something we plan on doing, sorry about that - make sure you didn't turn off switchwithma, manage your camp radius and attackat values, and let your ma/raidma manage targeting, which also manages backing off.
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It was great for late levels. Lots of low to mid level work and consideration was needed.@Sic You've been holding this great tool from us for that long?!
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That is so true! I actually usually don't get any gear for them until 120 now, with the LS drops. They seem to die quite a bit while leveling, but it tends to even out.A live boxer toon's are naked and never move until 115
Ok just checking on main reason I wanted the bard plugin was not to train my grp when I move. So lastnight I was in PD and all on chase all with bard invs on and ran through the caves. Bard got agro for sining while invs and wiped us. SO far out of all my testing it this has only happened once. But I was like wait how do I got agro and I clicked on npc and my bard was target I had KA flashbacks....
Q: How does it use Fierce Eye?
A: Assuming we have our epic and it isn't set to never be used, we dynamically check our dot_crit and our spell_crit_chance to determine if we should stagger our fierce eye usage to get maximum "uptime". If for some reason we're just not using our epic or we don't have it, we just use it and don't bother trying to min/max it.
so you'll want to turn off "burnallnamed/burnalways" and adjust your burncount to something silly, like 99 --- and then when you do a "burnnow" it will fire burn, when it throws the epic
I'm betting you this was something else.
we absolutely don't sing songs / do stuff if you are invis - this is universal across the plugins --- but since we're not using mq2twist or mq2melody - we're checking those things (outside if issuing a /stoptwist if you use the "aainvis" command if you have mq2twist loaded). I would make sure that you don't have anything conflicting, like reacts/lems/etc, i would make sure you're not passing by a see invis mob, etc.
this is the absolute first thing i made sure worked when we started working on bard like 4 years ago. the amount of times i was "singing songs when i was wasnt supposed to" is a total of 0. believe me, the issues you mentioned were a huge pain point for me (and have continued to be something i've had to give support to misc folks using other automations for the entire time i've been around rg/mq.
I would make sure you're using the
/brd aainvis to invis yourself and save yourself a bunch of grief with bad timing. using this command has special handling involved (like the aforementioned checking if mq2twist is loaded and then issuing a stoptwist to try and help folks save them from themselveswe would only break invis to start fighting something or if you had a camp set, just like the other plugins - that is universal and not handled individually plugin to plugin
Please let me know if you figure out what it is.
we absolutely don't sing songs / do stuff if you are invis - this is universal across the plugins....
Yep 1st time this has happened to me even the month I tested it last year over the 3 day test
But I will try and get it to happen again cause I was like wth I have never seen bard plugin do that so need to try and break it again
Yep 1st time this has happened to me even the month I tested it last year over the 3 day test
But I will try and get it to happen again cause I was like wth I have never seen bard plugin do that so need to try and break it again
