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Macros/Plugins etc Paid moving forward question

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I got a question re 1 year licenses

When I bought MQ2War there was no mention of the license being for 1 year.

When Beast and Cleric have since gone "live" they have very clearly been marked as a 1 year license when I purchased.

Has the War plugin moved to 1 year also? if so, even for people that bought it before this pattern arose?

No complaint here at all, just seeking clarification
 
All of my plugins have always been a 1 year license. It's been documented in a few different ways that it was a 1 year license when they became available for purchase all the way back to march of 2019 when I first released MQ2BerZerker. The information has been shifted around and we've been trying to make it more obvious that they are one year licenses to clean up confusion for the users who have overlooked that they are one year licenses.

Q. Why is it a 1 year license and not forever?
A. Because every year a new expansion comes out and every year they need to be updated to stay up to date with current EQ. Without the updates they aren't very much use in the new expansions.
A2. I'm constantly updating features that end up getting piled into all the plugins to make the software more user friendly and enable users to enjoy features as they are available. I cannot provide free updates forever for only $20 per purchase. If I did that I'd eventually lose interest in the projects and then while you'd have a forever license, the product wouldn't be of much use to you once I stopped working on them.

FAQ.
Q. Can I buy a forever license.
A. No, because if I do forever licenses the price would typically be in excess of what a user is willing to pay for a single product. It would reduce the amount of people who were willing to try the product. This way you also pay only for the class you want, for as long as you want to use it. If you decide you no longer need/want to use my product there is no obligation to you to purchase it again, and I as the seller don't receive funds for a product that you aren't using anymore.

When I originally created MQ2BerZerker I had no idea that my products would be as popular as they have turned out to be. At the time I was hard on money and I considered my own budget and what I would be willing to pay for what I considered a great product. In the end I decided that I'd be more willing to pay $20 a year, than $300+ for a forever license. I'd also feel more comfortable that a product would continue to receive updates if the seller would quit receiving money if they failed to maintain the product. Most agreed with the idea of the price and the way it was going to be handled at the time. Since then the question of a forever license has come up and I've been firm on my belief that I don't want to take anymore than I've earned through development and updates. I even go so far as not to charge for access to what I consider is the unfinished product, wanting only to charge people once I feel it's complete enough to compete with the content that is available freely, while also providing benefits that justify a price tag. However, once the products were move to their paid variations, the license was always a year for all of my plugins.

I've worked with redbot in an attempt to make it clearer that there is a limit of 1 year on the license for the purchase to ensure that users don't feel cheated because the information was overlooked. It's been relocated, emphasised etc to the best of our ability to ensure that it's made available as relevant information to the user. If the information was missing or overlooked at some point then I apologize in advance. It's never been my intention to mislead anyone into thinking that any of my plugins were forever licenses.
 
(i've mentioned this a few times) they are free to use on test server with your redguides lvl 2 - so you can /testcopy your team and give them a full real-world try - or create some low lvl dudes and play at that low lvl you would have on a tlp.
Lol, I am a huge idiot for some reason I did not realize I could testcopy from a TLP. *Facepalm*
 
Dude I chuckled at this one. I know you been looking for help which is kind of why i asked if its going to move to paid. When guys like you get burnt out the only option we will have is paid......unless KA lives forever.

I would love to have all MQ2(insert class here) but I cant drop $180+ annually which sucks because i have 50+ 115's. the only class I really dont have currently is a monk (sorry monks). Please consider a government cheese option for people who want all your plugins but cannot afford.

Its like being on crack and suffering withdrawal except I'm not doing "THAT"to get the goods~
Thankfully, you still have plenty of free, supported options here. KissAssist and ModBot will play any class very well if you take the time to set them up. I'm fairly sure they'll always be free as long as RG exists. There are some free, though not all open source, alternatives to CWTN's plugins.

MQ2Heals is one of them. It will play any class with heal spells, but plays a Cleric and Druid very well, and a Shaman somewhat okay (I don't know how to play a Shaman, or it would probably be better). What it doesn't do is anything else. It doesn't DPS (though MQ2AFNuke will), it doesn't buff, it doesn't make you sandwiches, and it doesn't run your business for you. It doesn't have any idea of a "camp" or "auto follow", etc... There are a ton of other plugins for that stuff. What it does, and does very well: Heals! The same goes for DPS. MQ2AFNuke will play your Wizard, Mage, Enchanter, Druid, Ranger, or Bst... It will play your wizard almost as good as a current main wizard player (because I wrote it to play like I did when I was a top tier DPS wizard in a current content raiding guild). I don't have much experience with the latter two classes, so if you want it to be better, I need your support. Much like noted before, my RL is very busy (I have a full-time job, loads of kids, I still raid actively, I am starting a business, etc.), but as long as I play EQ, these plugins will be updated and supported (in whatever capacity of free time I have). Sometimes it's a lot, sometimes it's not much.

Over time, I intend to combine these plugins and add more classes, but in the mean time, you still have plenty of free options that will likely stay free. As long as there's a community here, I'm sure we'll always have options.

From what I hear, CWTN's plugins are excellent, and well worth the $$. If you can't fork over $180 up front for all of them, try one out for $20, and use a macro or other plugin while you decide whether or not you want to pay for the rest. I think they're fairly priced, especially considering the amount of work that plugin development requires. Not to mention, from what I see, the support for these plugins is also excellent.
 
Guys first off I think what you are doing and have done is beyond anything that I could do (maybe in a few years buttttt). I was more of playing devil's advocate and seeing what everyone was thinking. As I said before your time and effort (at least with me) has been top notch. Once I finish learning the ins and outs of KissAssist I will get the full set. (Hope they work on the Necro next.) The 20 dollars for the one year license to me is a bargain for the work you have done and continue to do.

With that said it back to the game....
 
well that's your opinion that you're entitled to.

if it was up to me, personally. no one would ever hear about them until they are ready for release - but its not up to me. folks want to use them and try them out, and that is something that Chat and Red have worked out. You have mentioned that before, and I'm sorry you feel that way. No one is asked to use them, I go out of my way to ensure i give other suggestions to folks depending on what they're looking for - if *you* don't like them or have issue with them, don't use them.

I’m not interested in making a lot of drama around this stuff, but my point is broadly crowdsourcing the development and debugging of the plugins (not the code/routines, but how the plugins actually PLAY) and then monetizing that work later seems “off” to me. I get that you and Chat and others look at it from the perspective of “letting people use them while they’re still in development.” And that’s fine... you own this stuff and therefore your opinions will always be worth at least 51% of whatever “vote” there is... but my cheap, virtually irrelevant opinion is I‘m unconvinced that it is the right way to do it.
 
That's fine. No longer going to have any alpha versions of my plugins available because it hurts @Sum1 's feelings.

I should probably stop forcing people to use my stuff while I'm at it.

Feel free to hop on test if you insist that they shouldn't be charged for. 100% free on test server with your level 2 of Redguides.

At the end of the day I 100% encourage you, Sum1, not to put yourself through the horrible experience that is the alpha version of my plugins at absolutely zero cost to yourself. You can always take advantage of one of the freely available options present on the redguides market. We have IHCMercs, KissAssist, Core, and of course there's always the option of spending months of your life trying to perfect your own macro/plugin and using that instead.
 
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That's fine. No longer going to have any alpha versions of my plugins available because it hurts @Sum1 's feelings.

I should probably stop forcing people to use my stuff while I'm at it.

Feel free to hop on test if you insist that they shouldn't be charged for. 100% free on test server with your level 2 of Redguides.

At the end of the day I 100% encourage you, Sum1, not to put yourself through the horrible experience that is the alpha version of my plugins at absolutely zero cost to yourself. You can always take advantage of one of the freely available options present on the redguides market. We have IHCMercs, KissAssist, Core, and of course there's always the option of spending months of your life trying to perfect your own macro/plugin and using that instead.

Look, you can clearly see (and I’ve already stated) that I’m a customer. I’ve also acknowledged that you hold all the cards here. I’m sorry if my opinion regarding the development lifecycle of the plugins is some hot button issue.
 
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Well this is the second such time you've voice your opinion. I explained last time. I could be like every steam/kickstarter out there and start charging for access for alpha but I don't.
Your post. https://www.redguides.com/community/threads/mq2bst.71867/post-416980

My response. https://www.redguides.com/community/threads/mq2bst.71867/post-416982

Clearly I heard you last time. You keep acting like you were some major part of development, or you feel that people are being cheated when I charge for my plugins because they helped debug it. That's fine, but if you're going to voice your opinion. I'm going to defend my end of it because for whatever reason you feel I'm taking advantage of people somehow.

Me charging for my plugins isn't any different than mule charging for his, or william12 charging for his macros etc. Only difference is that when mine are ready for people to play with it in a less than ideal state I let them. If me letting you use something for free, having said it would end up going to a paid version upsets you. Use something else until it has a price tag so you can avoid all the heartache that comes along with the alpha to paid transition.
 
I have zero issue with people wanting to be paid for their work. I'm just hanging out for a little bit more ease of access at the moment.

Is there any thought going into bundle pricing for the future? I have a hard time justifying to my wife when she asks 'whats this? another $35??!' (my weak exchange rate)
 
Well this is the second such time you've voice your opinion. I explained last time. I could be like every steam/kickstarter out there and start charging for access for alpha but I don't.
Your post. https://www.redguides.com/community/threads/mq2bst.71867/post-416980

My response. https://www.redguides.com/community/threads/mq2bst.71867/post-416982

Clearly I heard you last time. You keep acting like you were some major part of development, or you feel that people are being cheated when I charge for my plugins because they helped debug it. That's fine, but if you're going to voice your opinion. I'm going to defend my end of it because for whatever reason you feel I'm taking advantage of people somehow.

Me charging for my plugins isn't any different than mule charging for his, or william12 charging for his macros etc. Only difference is that when mine are ready for people to play with it in a less than ideal state I let them. If me letting you use something for free, having said it would end up going to a paid version upsets you. Use something else until it has a price tag so you can avoid all the heartache that comes along with the alpha to paid transition.
There are 51 (now 52) posts in this thread and you’re hyper focused on mine... and frankly, I’m not sure why.

I’m going to turn notifications off here now. I voiced my opinion, and I’m not particularly sorry about that. I am sorry it seems to have offended you.

Cheers
 
I like the way it works now. Free alpha/testing. See if it works for you and provide some feedback. In EQ there isn't a huge market and pool of people to test stuff. I don't even play on live and I have bought some of Chat's stuff just to support the efforts!
 
Hopefully post #42 answered some of the questions in regards to my plugins in particular.

I also wanted to mention that this is my job. This is what I use to pay my light bill, my cable bill, buy food, pay for my car insurance etc. My only job is Redguides, and my plugins. When someone implies repeatedly they aren't happy that there is an expectation to pay for one of the resources, especially someone who's bought other ones, knows it's an alpha and will go to paid etc. It would be the same as me saying you should just go work for free at whatever job it is you do in RL that you use to put food on your table. So yeah, it grinds my gears and I'm going to defend my position, even though I shouldn't have to.

When I first came to redguides it was my intention that everything would be just given to people. I still have a lot of free resources. None of which I plan to put a price tag on. Due to demand I've put a lot of my attention on my plugins and have encouraged others to take over my macros so that they too might get into coding. When requested I certainly look into issues and track down bugs in mq2 itself, or plugins available to RG users, as does Sic.

Anyone that has messaged me about my plugin should know that I take care to try and respond to everyone who messages, and Sic probably gets 5x as many messages about the plugins as I do, and he certainly makes sure to assist everyone. I know as much because we spend the majority of our days/nights in voice chat with each other discussing one thing or another about whatever class we happen to be working on at the moment. So even though it was never actually factored into the price, the continued support of those plugins means that I feel obligated to respond to everyone, because they have bought a product, and if they need help with it they should get it.

The idea of a subscription model has been floated, the infrastructure isn't present currently on the website and since everything I've been developing is pretty new I'm not yet ready to consider a bundle or price decrease at this time. The oldest plugin being MQ2Berzerker has been out barely a year. Considerations for these things are being made however and I'm playing it by ear at the moment.

In reference to the launcher not showing that cleric was going to a paid resources. In the future I'll try to remember to specifically request that it makes it to the patch notes. My plugins have their own patch notes and Redbot just copy's and pastes those notes to their respective plugins. I tend to have a large amount of patch notes and we wanted to avoid flooding the VV patch notes with paid plugin notes for that reason. In the image at the bottom of this post is the file I use to track changes. They don't even fit on screen in a normal full window, and would be quite cumbersome in the RG patch notes and would possibly flood out notes for anything else that might be relevant for the resources freely available for users. For my class plugins I recommend following the ones you've bought, or are interested in, specifically if another one makes it to a free alpha state so that you can be notified about changes. But I see where you are coming from, and a mental note has been made.

Is this the trend moving forward, meaning will everything start to be paid? Not to my knowledge. As sic mentioned there have been additions to the VV plugin/macro list that aren't paid resource more so in quantity than there have been paid resources that have been released. Dewey was generous enough to agree to my request to add MQ2Autoclaim here and I made adjustments to it. Sic maintains MQ2Status, MQ2TSTrophy, and there is a mess of random macros. KA is provided by RG so it's the intention that it be part of redguides free for users with level 2. To my knowledge that won't ever change. To the specifics of what we can expect moving forward is ultimately up to individual developers to decide if they are looking to charge for their products. I'm sure that depends on things such as time to develop, complexity, and if the specific user has a need to be funded at all. In regards to me specifically (Can't speak for anyone else), my class plugins in particular were always going to be a paid resource. I try to be clear about that to the best of my ability. I have nothing else that I intend to be paid for beyond the class plugins at this time, I don't think it's necessary.

Denethor went through great lengths to develop the explorer macro rising to a request that I myself turned down due to the immense amount of work it would be to develop I never actually used the macro and bought it specifically because I understood how much work it was. We have MQ2EQWire, MQ2SlotColors, my plugins, more recently Denethor's EpicReq.mac, and at one point we had a RazNuke that was a paid macro but has since changed to free due to lack of author responses. I believe these are the paid resource available on RG atm. Then of course you have other who've had their own macros available for sell that haven't been listed as resources such as William12 macros and I'm sure there are others out there I'm just not aware of. But I don't see this as being a change in direction for resources moving forward so much as Redbot has made the process of publicly listing a product for sale easy, and more visible, instead of us needing to deal in private messages for transactions.

This is my perspective. Sorry for the book. :-)


(example of patch notes length in raw format)
1593446422137.png
 
You're defending a different position than what Sum1 was expressing his opinion about. He had no issue with them being paid.

He's talking about the method of development and on that you two both have different perspectives. From his perspective, you're using people's time and feedback to perfect your work and then, once all of that feedback and testing is done, you're putting it behind a paywall. From your perspective, you're allowing people to get some benefit from it and participate in the development process as well as see if they'll want to purchase it. It's just different perspectives and you two aren't going to agree so I think we've exhausted that specific line of conversation.

Summary:
1.) People are free to sell or not sell their work as they please on RG
2.) It is not the intent of RG as a whole to put stuff behind an additional paywall outside of Level 2, but RG does support authors who want to sell their work separately.
3.) RG tries to be transparent about this and there could be better ways to do so (some ideas from this thread are really good).
 
Locked this thread as we've pretty much exhausted all reasonable conversation on the matter - Knightly sums it up fairly well, and i think any "sides" have said their peace.
If you have any questions re: specifically cwtn plugins and their costs/alpha testing etc - please direct them to CWTN in a PM
 
Macros/Plugins etc Paid moving forward question
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