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IRL - Congratulations on the first build from the new test/live update team!

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Redbot

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Huge congratulations are in order for @Razzrr, @captboom, @boxbuddy, @ncellular, @iluvseq and @Sic for working non-stop over the last week to bring you a build for the Test server! After MacroQuest devs retired from live/test (to focus exclusively on emu) we weren't sure if we'd ever see another live/test build, but this is the beauty of open source. If there's demand, skill, and time, it'll happen.

At the same time, there are some signs that new MQ detection methods were added to EverQuest, so please think twice before playing with a valuable account, at least for the first few weeks.
 
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If you find something that's not working please just post in this thread.

If you're crashing or having a bad time it's not because anybody is a big meanie, the folks that have been working on this tirelessly are learning a lot as they go so we all appreciate your patience.
 
GREAT JOB GUYS! I am SOOOOOOOOOO Happy to hear that the RG community is still going to be supporting live, hopefully and hopefully for years to come!!!
 
Strong work, team!

I wonder what the secret sauce to bypassing the new detection will be. Obviously they’re not going to broadcast that out in the open but I’m sure the team will beat it 🫡🙌
 
I am getting a pop-up saying there is a new version of MQ when I launch but redfetch gets nothing new. It crashes on loading toons 3 and up.

Crash ID: c298fbc5-4f52-46a8-8448-5d0da70a4f22
 
I get that out of date message too but it loads fine with no crashes yet on one toon. imgui windows do not appear to be showing though. Have a wizard up and the CWTN plugin loads and is memming spells/casting but the imgui window for it does not show even after doing a /wiz show. No other imgui windows appear to display either, tried a few random scripts plus the MQ console.

With that said, awesome job guys! Amazing team effort to get this going.
 
I suspect the macroquest loader will probably say that something is out of date, because we have to be forked

As far as the in gooey window goes I don't know that that is related to the patch. I would check to make sure that you don't have any conflicting overlays running just like normal
 
my fault that's an update checker I added, I need to update redfetch or everyone's gonna get that message
 
I suspect the macroquest loader will probably say that something is out of date, because we have to be forked

As far as the in gooey window goes I don't know that that is related to the patch. I would check to make sure that you don't have any conflicting overlays running just like normal
You are correct, sir. I had RivaTuner overlay going when I was playing some other games this week. I unloaded it and restarted the toon and imgui is back showing. My bad
 
Strong work, team!

I wonder what the secret sauce to bypassing the new detection will be. Obviously they’re not going to broadcast that out in the open but I’m sure the team will beat it 🫡🙌

I let them know about it but it will be up to them to figure out how to solve it.

edit: knightly said it better than I a few posts down.
 
Amazing job fellas!

@Redbot please get their information so we can spin up some new donation threads! Or maybe one mega fund we can support and you can distribute? I know there's many hands involved.
 
I let them know about it but it will be up to them to figure out how to solve it.
everyone who is working on it in whatever means/methods they're working on it with welcome any information with open arms.

We all respect that you dont want to work on live any longer (at least we should) - but just saying stuff is wrong without pointing folks or helping folks just feels a little cruel.

again - i *get it*, it just feels a little "lul"
 
Congratulations to the team!

The unfortunate position I'm in, having relinquished control of this portion of the project, is that anything I say is going to seem like I'm naysaying the people moving forward. It will seem like bitterness coming from the old guard. I'm not naysaying nor bitter and I wish them the best. However, I do care about people getting suspended and banned, so I'm going to say this and then I'll leave it alone.

That line that Redbot has in bold is something I asked him to add I don't think it's strong enough. This build unequivocally misses things that should have been caught before pushing a build to users. And it chooses to do nothing about those either because they don't see it, they're not sure how, or they haven't put time into it yet. Whatever the reason, I think the wording "there are some signs" is much too light and I would not use this build on any account you care about.

I understand this puts me at odds with others working on this and that some will think I've lost the right to say anything given that I'm not working on it myself. I'll also not press the issue. But it's a pretty important issue that feels like it's a bit glossed over, so I'm mentioning it. Do with that information what you will.

That said, it's not at all up to me what people choose to release or how people use stuff on their account. I just think disclosures are important so people can make informed decisions.

[Edit: Redbot's previously bolded message has since been enlarged. That does change the context of the above but I leave it in its original form]
 
I do get this crash randomly when loading toons. I've had it happen twice on loading 4 toons. Loading that toon again right after that they loaded up fine. I will say I am using accounts that I care nothing about to test this just as an fyi.

---------------------------
EverQuest Crash Detected
---------------------------
MacroQuest caught a crash:

Process ID: 31044
Version: 3.1.1.3791
Location: new_dll_main+0 (C:\EQLQ\eqmain.dll+000000000000C6A0)

CrashID: 23d0cd7b-8125-4cd0-ac47-e9bb517f857a

You can either:
* [RETRY] Continue execution and hope for the best.
* [CANCEL] Write a crash dump and terminate EverQuest.

Copy the contents of this dialog to your clipboard by pressing Ctrl+C

---------------------------
Retry Cancel
---------------------------
 
This is hugely promising for the future and I'm extremely grateful for the efforts of everyone involved!

Thank you so much, guys!

Yes, I've read and understood the caveat but still see this as a HUGE leap forward!

Congratulations! VERY encouraging!
 
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Congratulations everyone! Thank you for everyone's hard work that has helped in the past and will be assisting in the future! Well done!
 
I mean, bans left and right for over a year. Doubt anyone is playing accounts they care about getting banned anymore 🤣
 
Congratulations you guys are some incredible heros! Viva red guides and here's to more trips around the norrathian "sun" together! Cheers guys
 
Congratulations to the team!

The unfortunate position I'm in, having relinquished control of this portion of the project, is that anything I say is going to seem like I'm naysaying the people moving forward. It will seem like bitterness coming from the old guard. I'm not naysaying nor bitter and I wish them the best. However, I do care about people getting suspended and banned, so I'm going to say this and then I'll leave it alone.

That line that Redbot has in bold is something I asked him to add I don't think it's strong enough. This build unequivocally misses things that should have been caught before pushing a build to users. And it chooses to do nothing about those either because they don't see it, they're not sure how, or they haven't put time into it yet. Whatever the reason, I think the wording "there are some signs" is much too light and I would not use this build on any account you care about.

I understand this puts me at odds with others working on this and that some will think I've lost the right to say anything given that I'm not working on it myself. I'll also not press the issue. But it's a pretty important issue that feels like it's a bit glossed over, so I'm mentioning it. Do with that information what you will.

That said, it's not at all up to me what people choose to release or how people use stuff on their account. I just think disclosures are important so people can make informed decisions.

[Edit: Redbot's previously bolded message has since been enlarged. That does change the context of the above but I leave it in its original form]
The only comment I'm going to make on this, and then I'll drop it:

Anyone using MQ must knowingly accept the risk of a ban. It goes with the territory. That said, the following strikes me as a dick move, and I think that's because of the way it reads in a forum post:

"This build unequivocally misses things that should have been caught."

Have you actually performed the reverse engineering on this build yourself and compared it against our work? On what basis are you stating things were missed? You said "unequivocally"-- that's a strong word. It means without doubt, without question. So what, specifically, was missed?

You can't walk up, slap your dick on the table, declare something is wrong, and then offer zero proof. That wouldn't be accepted in any professional setting, any peer review, any code audit -- anywhere. If you're going to make a claim that bold, defend it. Name the specific detections. Show the offsets. Point to the signatures. Something.

Otherwise what you've actually done is post a vague, unsubstantiated warning that undermines the work of the people who stepped up when you stepped back -- while giving yourself just enough plausible deniability to say you were "just looking out for people." That's not disclosure. That's FUD.

If you have real findings, share them privately with the team or post them here. That would actually help people make informed decisions. A hand-wavey "trust me, it's bad" from someone who admittedly isn't doing the work helps nobody.

I respect all the work you've all done in the past but it's pretty evident based on conversations that you all have talked yourself into a decision and that's fine i really don't care but you've said your piece either contribute or move on
 
Big difference between knowing that banning is hypothetically possible, and seeing what happens when MQ is outright detected... see the LS banwaves.

Sounds like someone already did make you aware of something, but maybe I misunderstood.

This entire rant could've been whittled down to a one-line question, if you wanted to set the example on how people act in a "professional setting".

Seems we are off to a great start here!
The only comment I'm going to make on this, and then I'll drop it:

Anyone using MQ must knowingly accept the risk of a ban. It goes with the territory. That said, the following strikes me as a dick move, and I think that's because of the way it reads in a forum post:

"This build unequivocally misses things that should have been caught."

Have you actually performed the reverse engineering on this build yourself and compared it against our work? On what basis are you stating things were missed? You said "unequivocally"-- that's a strong word. It means without doubt, without question. So what, specifically, was missed?

You can't walk up, slap your dick on the table, declare something is wrong, and then offer zero proof. That wouldn't be accepted in any professional setting, any peer review, any code audit -- anywhere. If you're going to make a claim that bold, defend it. Name the specific detections. Show the offsets. Point to the signatures. Something.

Otherwise what you've actually done is post a vague, unsubstantiated warning that undermines the work of the people who stepped up when you stepped back -- while giving yourself just enough plausible deniability to say you were "just looking out for people." That's not disclosure. That's FUD.

If you have real findings, share them privately with the team or post them here. That would actually help people make informed decisions. A hand-wavey "trust me, it's bad" from someone who admittedly isn't doing the work helps nobody.

I respect all the work you've all done in the past but it's pretty evident based on conversations that you all have talked yourself into a decision and that's fine i really don't care but you've said your piece either contribute or move on
 
Have you actually performed the reverse engineering on this build yourself and compared it against our work? On what basis are you stating things were missed? You said "unequivocally"-- that's a strong word. It means without doubt, without question. So what, specifically, was missed?
Answering this directly: Yes, I've looked at your changes. No, I'm not making guesses about my statement.

I said my piece on this and my intent is not to belabor the issue. I understand your frustrations though I don't think there's reason for the hostility, but I do want to address the "vaguebooking" issue. There are potential legal consequences with anyone in the USA telling you directly "this is what I found" and then you using that information. It's a line I'm just not willing to cross. I've never been willing to cross those lines in my history with this project and I am (and have been) pointing you in the direction so that you're aware and what you do with that is up to you. I understand that it's frustrating. I understand that, having never talked to me or otherwise interacted with me, you don't know me well enough to think that I'm acting in good faith. I cannot change how you perceive me.

Anyone working on this project is free to take the stance that they don't care about the consequences (either to themselves or others). I took the stance that I do care. That requirement doesn't rest on your shoulders, it rests solely on mine and I've said what I needed to say with regard to that responsibility.

I was hesitant to post at all because I thought that some would take it as me crapping on the work. Some will still take it that way no matter what I say. Ten years ago there were tons of people who didn't believe that MQ2IC was doing bad things either. Some still don't believe that. And in any case, there will always be people who don't care. The best I can do is raise the issue so that people can make informed decisions. If you choose to take that as a personal affront or think I'm acting in bad faith, it is what it is.

Best wishes.
 
Answering this directly: Yes, I've looked at your changes. No, I'm not making guesses about my statement.

I said my piece on this and my intent is not to belabor the issue. I understand your frustrations though I don't think there's reason for the hostility, but I do want to address the "vaguebooking" issue. There are potential legal consequences with anyone in the USA telling you directly "this is what I found" and then you using that information. It's a line I'm just not willing to cross. I've never been willing to cross those lines in my history with this project and I am (and have been) pointing you in the direction so that you're aware and what you do with that is up to you. I understand that it's frustrating. I understand that, having never talked to me or otherwise interacted with me, you don't know me well enough to think that I'm acting in good faith. I cannot change how you perceive me.

Anyone working on this project is free to take the stance that they don't care about the consequences (either to themselves or others). I took the stance that I do care. That requirement doesn't rest on your shoulders, it rests solely on mine and I've said what I needed to say with regard to that responsibility.

I was hesitant to post at all because I thought that some would take it as me crapping on the work. Some will still take it that way no matter what I say. Ten years ago there were tons of people who didn't believe that MQ2IC was doing bad things either. Some still don't believe that. The best I can do is raise the issue so that people can make informed decisions. If you choose to take that as a personal affront or think I'm acting in bad faith, it is what it is.

Best wishes.
Big difference between knowing that banning is hypothetically possible, and seeing what happens when MQ is outright detected... see the LS banwaves.

Sounds like someone already did make you aware of something, but maybe I misunderstood.

This entire rant could've been whittled down to a one-line question, if you wanted to set the example on how people act in a "professional setting".

Seems we are off to a great start here!
I mean Knightly did come off like a prick in his post 😂

Makes sense
 
Answering this directly: Yes, I've looked at your changes. No, I'm not making guesses about my statement.

I said my piece on this and my intent is not to belabor the issue. I understand your frustrations though I don't think there's reason for the hostility, but I do want to address the "vaguebooking" issue. There are potential legal consequences with anyone in the USA telling you directly "this is what I found" and then you using that information. It's a line I'm just not willing to cross. I've never been willing to cross those lines in my history with this project and I am (and have been) pointing you in the direction so that you're aware and what you do with that is up to you. I understand that it's frustrating. I understand that, having never talked to me or otherwise interacted with me, you don't know me well enough to think that I'm acting in good faith. I cannot change how you perceive me.

Anyone working on this project is free to take the stance that they don't care about the consequences (either to themselves or others). I took the stance that I do care. That requirement doesn't rest on your shoulders, it rests solely on mine and I've said what I needed to say with regard to that responsibility.

I was hesitant to post at all because I thought that some would take it as me crapping on the work. Some will still take it that way no matter what I say. Ten years ago there were tons of people who didn't believe that MQ2IC was doing bad things either. Some still don't believe that. And in any case, there will always be people who don't care. The best I can do is raise the issue so that people can make informed decisions. If you choose to take that as a personal affront or think I'm acting in bad faith, it is what it is.

Best wishes.
I’d just like to say as a member of this community, I’m grateful for both. The warning and the tremendous effort by the new team to get this figured out for us.
 
If you have some combative shitty things to say keep it to yourself. Next bullshit that is incendiary is going to the trash.

Like Redbot said any heads up or warning is better than none and we should be grateful. I am, even if I have the feelings I previously shared. It's a shame we don't get anything more but that's the reality, and no one is obligated to prove it or show anything.

The folks working on it will continue to try and find whatever things they can find so we can continue enjoying the game that we love and the way that we like.

Answering this directly: Yes, I've looked at your changes. No, I'm not making guesses about my statement.

I said my piece on this and my intent is not to belabor the issue. I understand your frustrations though I don't think there's reason for the hostility, but I do want to address the "vaguebooking" issue. There are potential legal consequences with anyone in the USA telling you directly "this is what I found" and then you using that information. It's a line I'm just not willing to cross. I've never been willing to cross those lines in my history with this project and I am (and have been) pointing you in the direction so that you're aware and what you do with that is up to you. I understand that it's frustrating. I understand that, having never talked to me or otherwise interacted with me, you don't know me well enough to think that I'm acting in good faith. I cannot change how you perceive me.

Anyone working on this project is free to take the stance that they don't care about the consequences (either to themselves or others). I took the stance that I do care. That requirement doesn't rest on your shoulders, it rests solely on mine and I've said what I needed to say with regard to that responsibility.

I was hesitant to post at all because I thought that some would take it as me crapping on the work. Some will still take it that way no matter what I say. Ten years ago there were tons of people who didn't believe that MQ2IC was doing bad things either. Some still don't believe that. And in any case, there will always be people who don't care. The best I can do is raise the issue so that people can make informed decisions. If you choose to take that as a personal affront or think I'm acting in bad faith, it is what it is.

Best wishes.
I've talked to knightly a lot of the years, much of it about personal things. I don't always agree with him, or how he communicates, but I do consider knightly a "safe" person for me who is through and fair.

Knightly is often a "behind the scenes" person, but I've never known him to be confidently incorrect nor lie.
 
Not sure I understand the legal consequences comment above.

Does that mean that the guys who are focusing on Emu could face legal action for helping the new guys based on something new in the landscape? That the new guys could face legal action? Something else?

Not trying to be obtuse, I just genuinely don’t understand.
 
Let's please try and keep this thread to the "yay".

The points have been made. Please take anything else to pms
 
Congratulations to all those that contributed on meaningful progress! I'm sure it'll evolve and continue to get better with time.
 
As someone who builds major infrastructure for a living, I tend to take it seriously when someone who has experience says to me "you should look deeper with view for risk" and that's how I looked at the warnings above.

Not everything is a slight, more often than not when folks are part of community its just a piece of advice that they do not want to get too deeply involved past that point. By reacting negatively to these advices we normally ensure that the experienced advice will stop.

PS I appreciate all past and present efforts towards making this work.

PSS Sorry Sic your post was put up whileI was typing
 
IRL - Congratulations on the first build from the new test/live update team!
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