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Discussion - BST as healer in pet-heavy group? (1 Viewer)

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Nov 28, 2013
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I drive with my mage in SK, SHM, BRD, ENC, MAG, MAG, 110+. Dps is nice, I give all pets summoned rage swords, and tanking is divided between sk and pets.

tanking individual is almost always at 100% health. I atribute it to runes, proc runes, and life taps for the sk.

I also have a 110 f2p bst, undergeared and with autogrant aa.

I have tried swapping him in for the sk, there was no real difference in my short test.

But then it hit me: since shm is never really healing, could bst act as main healer? So swap shm out?

I have all relevant mq2class plugins, and I dabble in Lua.

what would be net benefits, and what would be drawbacks?
 

Sic

"punch, stab, slice, eye gouge, kick, slap" - hdex
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I absolutely do not think that bst would work as main healer

shm also brings shm epic and progressive spell to your group - so definitely wouldn't want to ditch them for no heal (cause you're losing adps too)
 
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I have seen others say this and I have experienced it myself, SK's can kill without any other char healing at all. I have had my shaman die and the SK doesn't need to stop pulling while I rez the shaman. This is more likely the reason your Shaman is never really healing. But if the situation were to change and your SK started needing some heals, I also think you would be in bad shape at that point with the BST as your main healer.

If you are always doing the same content and are 100 percent certain the shaman never casts any type of heal, all I can tell you is to experiment with it and see if it works for what you are trying to accomplish. I really doubt you are going to find anyone giving good examples of pro's and con's of using a BST as a main healer.
 
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enchanter with classplugin is great cc, mana, and adps. I die more without the enchanter, but with, a 5-pull is no biggie, and often goes well with 7-8.
 
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why do you want to bring the f2p bst? Need more DPS? AS Sic pointed out, you will lose alot of ADPS without the shm... and if you wanted to, could go BYoS mem some spells and up the shaman DPS (They can also melee).

Depending on AA's and gear, as pointed out, SK's can TRUE solo most CoV open world content. Your post says 110+, doesnt mention AA's or gear, so your mileage may vary on solo and with a bst.

The enchanter and bard are sorta redundant, however, its your group and your allowed to run what you want/works best for you. I agree with Arander and would shelve one, but all up to you.
 
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Hi all,

Thanks for the replies :-).

  • I see several posts related to BRD/ENCH stacking :-). I realize there is some redundancy, but with the two mages as main source of DPS, both the enchanter and bard actually add a lot to the group, both as adps, and as sources of mana, which is the bottle neck when I grind XP. I sometimes run without one or the other, but I tend to gravitate back to running with both. Only wish I could get the enchanter to cast more group runes :-).
  • I am talking about could it work, the challenge and fun would like in making a healer-less group work; I don't think it would be a permanent setup for me.
  • I would sub the bst for the experiment...
  • The Shaman is the main healer, but he just don't do a lot of healing
  • Shaman adps is very apreciated, especially in a hybrid caster/melee group. I realize pure melee groups are far superior, but I think it is fun to make something different work
  • I don't need more dps, the content I do melt in 6-15 sec (maybe I should do harder :-D), and I am not sure the BST would actually add that much more adps/dps.

So the question is: could it work? I see that it would likely be a less optimal idea :-P
 

Sic

"punch, stab, slice, eye gouge, kick, slap" - hdex
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Hi all,

Thanks for the replies :-).

  • I see several posts related to BRD/ENCH stacking :-). I realize there is some redundancy, but with the two mages as main source of DPS, both the enchanter and bard actually add a lot to the group, both as adps, and as sources of mana, which is the bottle neck when I grind XP. I sometimes run without one or the other, but I tend to gravitate back to running with both. Only wish I could get the enchanter to cast more group runes :-).
  • I am talking about could it work, the challenge and fun would like in making a healer-less group work; I don't think it would be a permanent setup for me.
  • I would sub the bst for the experiment...
  • The Shaman is the main healer, but he just don't do a lot of healing
  • Shaman adps is very apreciated, especially in a hybrid caster/melee group. I realize pure melee groups are far superior, but I think it is fun to make something different work
  • I don't need more dps, the content I do melt in 6-15 sec (maybe I should do harder :-D), and I am not sure the BST would actually add that much more adps/dps.

So the question is: could it work? I see that it would likely be a less optimal idea :-P
no, I do not think that it could work. at least not for more than just a small single pull camp. doing missions and progression regularly? no, i do not

me said:
I absolutely do not think that bst would work as main healer
 
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Hi all,

Thanks for the replies :-).

  • I see several posts related to BRD/ENCH stacking :-). I realize there is some redundancy, but with the two mages as main source of DPS, both the enchanter and bard actually add a lot to the group, both as adps, and as sources of mana, which is the bottle neck when I grind XP. I sometimes run without one or the other, but I tend to gravitate back to running with both. Only wish I could get the enchanter to cast more group runes :-).
  • I am talking about could it work, the challenge and fun would like in making a healer-less group work; I don't think it would be a permanent setup for me.
  • I would sub the bst for the experiment...
  • The Shaman is the main healer, but he just don't do a lot of healing
  • Shaman adps is very apreciated, especially in a hybrid caster/melee group. I realize pure melee groups are far superior, but I think it is fun to make something different work
  • I don't need more dps, the content I do melt in 6-15 sec (maybe I should do harder :-D), and I am not sure the BST would actually add that much more adps/dps.

So the question is: could it work? I see that it would likely be a less optimal idea :-P
1)yes brd and ench spells stack, however your talking about mana regen, the Bst has single target paragon and group paragon, bst will do 5x or more hte dps of the ench meaning things die faster. If your worried about mezzing then ur bards INI is not good enough. i run bard and can pul 8 mobs, bard will mezz 7 pretty easily. i have my bards ini set to cast the aoe mez(will lock 6) then target mez. so inside 40 seconds he has 7 locked down.

2)Could it work. Technically yes. you could handle 1 or 2 mob pulls pretty ok using SK with plugin casue he doesnt need much heals. however if anyone else in group needed a heal, nope, if you took on something ur SK couldnt tap through, nope.

3)yes sub the bst atleast for awhile

4)/5)set the shm in hybrid stance, or dps stance and let him really shine, i run mine in dps stance for stuff i farm, hybrid for most of the rest

6) if ur melting things in 6-15scs u need harder content. Yes the bst will bring ALOT to the group. it will trigger the synergy from mages, his own synergy will trigger on mages pets. He brings bst mana/hp regen for group, bst hp/ac buff, then also brings targeted paragon which is massive mana regen, and group paragon wich does same thing for whole group.

yes i understand doing different things to see if it works. i currently have 3x of almost every class (except monk i really really dont like monks) and i have roughly 12 differnt group make ups that i run with to play and try things and have fun
 
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so inside 40 seconds he has 7 locked down
Wow - in the content where I need a real healer, if 7 mobs aren't locked down in the first few seconds it's game over. If I can last 40 seconds I probably don't need CC :) But yes, a bard for CC handles the job pretty well.

To the OP - if you are 110+ and just grinding out XP in FM use whatever group works for you. If you are 115 in CoV trying to get Hardened Destiny drops from raid trash and get a multiple pull, good luck with your BST healer. Life as a group-geared tank isn't as easy at the end.
 
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Wow - in the content where I need a real healer, if 7 mobs aren't locked down in the first few seconds it's game over. If I can last 40 seconds I probably don't need CC :) But yes, a bard for CC handles the job pretty well.

To the OP - if you are 110+ and just grinding out XP in FM use whatever group works for you. If you are 115 in CoV trying to get Hardened Destiny drops from raid trash and get a multiple pull, good luck with your BST healer. Life as a group-geared tank isn't as easy at the end.
:-)
Doing lesson burn in Sathir's Tomb and progression in TBL.

Agree on the need for fast CC of mobs.
 

ABWar

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I doubt a F2P beast would even make up the dps lost for just the mages tbh (the permanent shaman aura is a huge boost to RS pets and requires zero effort)

If the goal is to handicap yourself, then sure
 
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Wow - in the content where I need a real healer, if 7 mobs aren't locked down in the first few seconds it's game over. If I can last 40 seconds I probably don't need CC :) But yes, a bard for CC handles the job pretty well.
as a group geared SK War OR Paly in COV if you cannot use discs to last atleast 40 seconds with less than 9 mobs on you, rethink your casting orders.

Each of those 3 have a ability that adds hate and lets them avoid next 2 inc attacks, they have defensives that reduce all inc dmg by a HUGE amount, and each one of the 3 has a form of deflection allowing them to avoid ALL inc melee dmg for 15 to 30 seconds. add the first and 3rd together you ahve alteast 35 to 40 seconds of no dmg taken. toss in one of the better defensives and you have alot longer than that.

and normally the lockdown happens alot faster, the aoe mez casts pretty fast, then single target any that resisted the aoe.
 

Knightly

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Honestly, the question of whether it would work for you comes down to “can you accomplish all the things you want to accomplish.” Without knowing what you want to accomplish you’ll get a lot of people telling you how that group composition would impact the things they want to do.

But for non-trivial content I wouldn’t count a Beastlord as Heals. They can do a pretty good job healing though, so try it and see if it works for you if that’s what you want to do. It’s not a waste of time if you enjoy it.
 
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as a group geared SK War OR Paly in COV if you cannot use discs to last atleast 40 seconds with less than 9 mobs on you, rethink your casting orders.

Each of those 3 have a ability that adds hate and lets them avoid next 2 inc attacks, they have defensives that reduce all inc dmg by a HUGE amount, and each one of the 3 has a form of deflection allowing them to avoid ALL inc melee dmg for 15 to 30 seconds. add the first and 3rd together you ahve alteast 35 to 40 seconds of no dmg taken. toss in one of the better defensives and you have alot longer than that.

and normally the lockdown happens alot faster, the aoe mez casts pretty fast, then single target any that resisted the aoe.
Running MQ2Eskay normally, it does a good job. And yes, can survive large pulls well, at least when discs are up. Deflection can handle 24s (12s + 12s from focus AA), at least every 40 minutes, etc.

But that wasn't really my point - I was commenting on the 'within 40s he has 7 locked down' after you mentioned his bard INI maybe not being good enough. I read that as saying your bard gets 7 locked down in 40 seconds, whereas I think you can (and will often need) to get the mobs mezzed faster than that. But reading your post again, you may have been saying 'you have up to 40 seconds to lock down the mobs'. In which case I agree, as long as you have some discs available.
 
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Thanks all for the input 🙂

The shaman is staying :-).
A buddy is now leveling a necro, so we will try: necro, mag, mag, ench, brd, shm, and see if we can survive group content without an SK 🙃. I expect it to be fun…
 
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Running MQ2Eskay normally, it does a good job. And yes, can survive large pulls well, at least when discs are up. Deflection can handle 24s (12s + 12s from focus AA), at least every 40 minutes, etc.

But that wasn't really my point - I was commenting on the 'within 40s he has 7 locked down' after you mentioned his bard INI maybe not being good enough. I read that as saying your bard gets 7 locked down in 40 seconds, whereas I think you can (and will often need) to get the mobs mezzed faster than that. But reading your post again, you may have been saying 'you have up to 40 seconds to lock down the mobs'. In which case I agree, as long as you have some discs available.
aye, i ment 40 secs as in the maximum time it takes to get them locked and i can easily live for that long with most group content.

Normally its around 12 seconds which is super easy to last
 

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