Question - Box group advice

[s0lusek]

Hey all,

I'm looking for some advice for my 6 box setup. Currently, the group is:

SK*
MNK*
BST
MAG*
DRU
ENC

The classes I'm not willing to let go, are SK, MNK, MAG. I'm struggling mostly with the following conflicts.

- Can druid provide enough good group healing for my 6 box, through the bulk of average content an average player would attempt?
- If I subbed out druid, would I be losing a lot in lack of ports for my group?
- Is not having a backup healer going to hurt me later?
- I love the idea of a shaman, but figured I'm getting somewhat close with the BST instead, am I wrong?
- I don't like bards and much prefer the style of enchanter, though I realize perhaps the enchanter doesn't add as much?
- Despite me not liking bards, would subbin him in for something add enough ADPS to everyone else that it would make up for the bards lackluster dps?
- I love the melee heavy concept so am not interested in wizards etc.

Thoughts?

 

[Razkle]

3 things... 1 bard is better for melee group and 2 mnk dropped I would add another mag or bst or necro to pet it up! and 3 quietly smother the druid with a pillow in his sleep and add a Cleric... nothing comes close...

- - - Updated - - -

your other option is to drop the mnk for a zerker, the dps a zerker brings is game changing

 

[BrianGragg]

Hey all,

I'm looking for some advice for my 6 box setup. Currently, the group is:

SK*
MNK*
BST
MAG*
DRU
ENC

The classes I'm not willing to let go, are SK, MNK, MAG. I'm struggling mostly with the following conflicts.

- Can druid provide enough good group healing for my 6 box, through the bulk of average content an average player would attempt?
- If I subbed out druid, would I be losing a lot in lack of ports for my group?
- Is not having a backup healer going to hurt me later?
- I love the idea of a shaman, but figured I'm getting somewhat close with the BST instead, am I wrong?
- I don't like bards and much prefer the style of enchanter, though I realize perhaps the enchanter doesn't add as much?
- Despite me not liking bards, would subbin him in for something add enough ADPS to everyone else that it would make up for the bards lackluster dps?
- I love the melee heavy concept so am not interested in wizards etc.

Thoughts?

SK
BST
Zerk
Monk
Cleric
Bard

Just my $.02. [emoji41]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Meistro]

Bst can cover MOST of the shaman style buffs, and CAN act as somewhat of a back-up healer (have duoed my SK & Bst with Bst healing in ROF content in ROF T1/t2 group gear at Lvl 100). I myself don't have great need for ports, so I don't usually run with Druids/Wizards. But in Most group content (maybe minus named) with gear current or better than era your killing in this group should do OK.

I, myself, am not grand on monks, seeing as how the bst is basically a Monk/Shaman with a touch of Mage, they can cover a wide area of abilities.

But depending on how you plan on running your group, If you can single pull (with Monk or SK) do you need CC from the Enc?

SK =Good aggro control, Melee DPS, Spell DPS (TAPS = Self Heals too)
Monk = Good puller (single pulls very well), Good Melee DPS, Being unfamiliar with high end monks, I don't know what else they can bring to the group.
Bst = Pet, Buffs, Mana/HP/End Regens (Paragon, Focused Paragon), Limited Slows, Good Melee DPS, Good Spell DPS (DD & DoT), Limited Debuffs, Spot Healing, Back up Tankability (both in pet and bst self).
Mage = Pet, CoTH, Pet Kits, Summoned Clickes, Swarm Pets, Good Spell DPS, Pet/SwarmPet Melee DPS, Pet Offtank/Secondary Tank, DS, Defensive DS type procs
Druid = Good Heals, Buffs, DS(maybe), Good Spell DPS (if not healing), Ports
Enc = MEZ (CC), Pet, Mana/End Regen, Runes, Good Spell DPS (If not mezzing a lot, or using Runes a lot), SLOWS, Debuffs.

Hope something here helps, but as far as it goes, I think your group can work. Unless your looking at replacing one of the toons with a Cleric (incase you need better heals), I believe you have a very balanced and workable group.

Just a side note, If you use the plugin MQ2Heals with your druid, you should be able to heal thru most anything even with the Druid (My Shaman can do most TBM group healing with it).

 

[s0lusek]

Thanks guys, few follow ups.

1. Are zerkers really that much more dps than monks? I always thought they were comparable. I had him in here strictly for a utility dps to help me single pull in the future, though I suppose if I'm bringing a chanter, maybe not needed?
2. As I often get interrupted at home, I figured having ports was probably a good idea. If it weren't for the ports I likely wouldn't use the druid and would opt for a shaman proper probably, potentially subbing out the beastlord.
3. I'm really not a fan of the bard simply because it feels like they aren't doing much mid game. I've never taken a group comp over 60 though to be honest so I'm totally inexperienced. In a melee heavy group, does the bard all of a sudden become godly?
4. I've read and been told numerous times that cleric healing is overkill unless you're really pushing it, and that dru/shm are more than enough if done properly. Is that untrue?

 

[Warl0ck45]

my 2 cents, for what it is worth to ya..

First off, group make up.

I have had no issues using a druid to group heal for most things. They are how ever not as specialized/good at it as clerics or shaman. In my opinion, if you can only have the 1 healer slot... clerics for raids, shaman for groups. That is not to say druids are not good at it, but you are comparing a general practitioner doctor to specialists. There are a number of things druids can do to help with the group keeping it up, and from experience they do well enough with most group content though =)

Porting... personally I bind everyone in the hall and pass around the mage doors. I rarely need to more then poof to PoK and either take a guild hall port or PoK run, either way you are no more then 2-3 zones from where ever you want to go for like 99% of the content. If you find you are making frequent runs... set up some AdvPath paths. I have some for instance set up so with PL groups at the end of the day I either throne or door or gate back to the lobby, then use pathing files to run to Pok, then to the library, then to class spell/tome vendors... buy everything they can use, and run them back to the Pok Hotzone guy before logging out.

Bards... their power is more in how they boost the group then in what they themselves do. The enhance other toons enough to really boost their DPS, more then offsetting what folks think is lacking in Bard DPS. I have used Bards and Chanters... and personally it depends on what you like. Bards bring a lot to the table, but only so long as they are with the group (if you have them pulling, the group loses the song buffs) If you are doing a lot of CCing, bards have a definite limit on how much they can lock down... and they can't boost the group while CCing (or at least not as well) Enchanters... are kings for CCing... they are decent DPS in their own right, and their pets got boosted enough to play backup tank in a pinch. They how ever are usually delegated to "pocket chanter" status since what they bring to the table (buffs and CC and added DPS) can be done just as effectively from outside the group while you fill the chanter slot with more DPS or what ever. So... my opinion... play which ever you like =)

Which leads in to the last bit... toons.

I find there is no formula for "awesome uber always works every time" groups. This situation demands more healing, that one heavy CCing, another have in DPS, that one caster only, the one of there melee only. As such.... I have multiple toons on each account that I take care of so I can "plug and play" which ever collection of classes seems to fit the situation. Yes, I have my favorite group set up.... they tend to get first crack at the loots... but I don't let that stop me from swapping out other toons as needed. Matter of fact... for every expansion since HoT I have had to swap out toons after hitting the XP/AA limits.

My suggestion is... since you will be working on some baby toons anyways... work up a second group of toons... full of the classes you might want to try out. Classes change over the levels... what it does at level 30-60-90-105 changes. Each expansions, and sometimes a few times between, brings new stuff to the table for what X class does. Fleshing out some classes you are interested in until the ones you want are high enough to group with your main group, will give you some options to swap other classes in on the solid/boring camps if you want, just to try out some stuff =)

 

[Razkle]

ok you all can argue healers all damn day and into the night, but let me point out 1 thing a cleric can do, that a merc cleric cannot, that a shammy cannot and a druid cannot... B A T T L E R E Z! I don't mean call your corpse back OOM and shit, but full on 96% rez in the middle of a shitstorm. I cannot stress enough the importance of a cleric....

- - - Updated - - -

the basic rule of bard or chanter is simple... if caster heaver choose chanter, if melee heavy choose bard... your playstyle may change that somewhat but that is the rule of thumb...

- - - Updated - - -

personally I run more groups then any sane person... almost all of them are either testing something (like my pet group) or in production getting AAs or PLing or doing a task like farming something I want....

the ones PLing are almost always the exact same makeup, why? cause after 17 years of testing it still works. That is a tank, Sk or War.... a cleric.... a mezzer, Chanter or Bard.... 2 wizzies and whatever the fuck in the last slot.... a wiz if I want to just murder the world, but also I use a beast or a zerker and no, a zerker and a monk are totally different in amount of DPS they put out.... Most of my fights are counted in seconds, and a majority in less then 8 seconds... I call it RodeoEQ!

 

[BrianGragg]

Zerker will spank a monk in DPS all day long. Unless they changed something in recent expansions I missed.

 

[playbetter]

.. B A T T L E R E Z! I don't mean call your corpse back OOM and shit, but full on 96% rez in the middle of a shitstorm. I cannot stress enough the importance of a cleric....

I absolutely love it when General Razkle comes out with ALLCAPS, emhatic puntuation!@#$%^!!!, and profanity(shit yes!!) LOL

If I could type more than three words a minute or had one of them headsets to talk while playing I would really enjoy grouping with EL Capitain Razkle of the "KILL EM ALL AND LET GOD SORT EM OUT" mindset. Or from the school of "Nuke em till they glow" or possibly the "F#@K em all and feed em fish heads." Imagine the sites you might see hanging out with Razkle. It boggles the mind.

thanks Raz and HAPPY FU@KING NEW YEAR!!!!!!
to us all.

As always,
Playbetter

 

[LamahHerder]

Add any healer and any cc and that will work just fine for 95% of the group content, not sure what that remaining 5% is but I am sure there is something.

So if you are set on SHD+MNK+MAG.....

1 SHD
2 MNK
3 MAG
4 BST - because you have a mag + baby heals for <40hp
5 BRD - ADPS + selo's + CC + overhaste ....
6 SHM - ADPS + slow + buffs


I have had 20ish max level groups (for the era) since 99 and just got a max level 105 group (totally different than 50/60/75).
Melee heavy group is an inner-conflict-struggle for me.
For 2 reasons
1 - I love ports+evac because I hate 'waiting' (and no i do not want instant travel like current MMO's... I want to be faster than other ppl!). Basically I enjoy knowing I am making my life easier
2 - Battle rez.... If I am going melee heavy I want a BRD+SHM... which means I need to give up the cleric to get more than 3 melee. I have used battle rez soooooo many times.

The answers I give myself for this struggle.....
1 = DRU plays both healer and porter
2 = PAL plays both tank+melee+healer+rez

I did have a PAL+DRU+MNK+WIZ+BRD+ENC group on LJ... it worked okay but my DPS was just not there

If I was not addicted to Ogres at the moment I would probably do this for my melee group.

PAL (rez + hp buff)
BER
BST (backup tankpet + baby heals)
RNG (for a solid snare really....) could go ROG/MNK and probably be very similar
SHM (ADPS + Slow + heals)
BRD (ADPS + CC + bandaid for no ports =)


I am about to make a melee group that is Ogre heavy =)

1 WAR (cuz i already have 2 ogre SHD's)
2 BER
3 BST
4 SHM

5 BRD
6 DRU

 

[nyghteyes]

Great thread!

My 2

I have tried to bring myself down to 1 group with only 1 pocket toon to switch out depending on the zone. I found out that I need atleast 8 to 10 toons to swap around if I really want to min/max an area. Lots of this is going to depend on your tank.

My play style requires that I always have a chanter, I am impatient and am not going to split pull unless there is some uber loots to be had and it is required to win. Pull em all and let the chanter do its job, as long as the Tank can handle it.

War/SK/Pal
Cleric
Chanter
DPS
DPS
DPS

I've not had the greatest luck with my Bard CC'ing as well as my chanter, might be more my fault.

I have recently been experimenting with rangers, leveling a handful of them at the moment. By weeks end I'll have the main Bow AA's done to know if they will stay active or not til PoP. (PoP is the main reason for them since they really start to shine then)

So many good points on your tank options in this thread, no reason to re-iterate.

 

[Noobhaxor]

My core group is

WAR
CLR
BRD
Fill with DPS

Now right now,
WAR
CLR
BRD
MNK

but I might expand it to
WAR
CLR
BRD
MNK
BST
WIZ

 

[aspire2008]

ok you all can argue healers all damn day and into the night, but let me point out 1 thing a cleric can do, that a merc cleric cannot, that a shammy cannot and a druid cannot... B A T T L E R E Z! I don't mean call your corpse back OOM and shit, but full on 96% rez in the middle of a shitstorm. I cannot stress enough the importance of a cleric....

[/I]

QFT.

I'll add, I can't even imagine how many times Epic 1.5/2.0 and Divine Arb have saved me wipes over the years. You can't even compare mercs in the same ballpark. The only time I pull up a merc cleric is to rogue drag my mage to a camp I can't get to without see invis mobs in the way.

 

[passaway]

ok you all can argue healers all damn day and into the night, but let me point out 1 thing a cleric can do, that a merc cleric cannot, that a shammy cannot and a druid cannot... B A T T L E R E Z! I don't mean call your corpse back OOM and shit, but full on 96% rez in the middle of a shitstorm. I cannot stress enough the importance of a cleric....

- - - Updated - - -

the basic rule of bard or chanter is simple... if caster heaver choose chanter, if melee heavy choose bard... your playstyle may change that somewhat but that is the rule of thumb...

- - - Updated - - -

personally I run more groups then any sane person... almost all of them are either testing something (like my pet group) or in production getting AAs or PLing or doing a task like farming something I want....

the ones PLing are almost always the exact same makeup, why? cause after 17 years of testing it still works. That is a tank, Sk or War.... a cleric.... a mezzer, Chanter or Bard.... 2 wizzies and whatever the fuck in the last slot.... a wiz if I want to just murder the world, but also I use a beast or a zerker and no, a zerker and a monk are totally different in amount of DPS they put out.... Most of my fights are counted in seconds, and a majority in less then 8 seconds... I call it RodeoEQ!

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=85523
Druids/Shamans can battle rez. Just not as well

I've found what matters more then battle rez is not having to rely on a merc for the ever so important spell haste buff, rez's not really a big deal.