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News - Upcoming changes to Escape AAs (1 Viewer)

dulak

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Over the last four years we've watched how these changes have impacted gameplay and decided a different adjustment was in order. There were several lessons learned, some aspects of the changes we've been happy with, while other aspects have caused friction in ways that wasn't our goal.

We've reevaluated how we want to limit the power of these abilities and will be making a number of changes that we consider an overall improvement for most classes. See the following excerpt from next month's update notes.

  • All - AA abilities that allow characters to escape combat have been retuned to provide a more consistent experience. Now, rather than some classes' escape abilities relying on level limits and variable success chances, all AA escape abilities will have a 100% chance to succeed on opponents up to 5 levels above the caster. These abilities will now have higher reuse times and resource costs for most classes, as this better reflects our vision for these abilities.
  • Bard - Fading Memories - Removed ranks 4-40. Ranks 1-3 now consume 12, 6, and 2% of your mana to activate.
  • Berserker - Self Preservation - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%), increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3), and removed the self-stun component of this ability. Removed ranks 4-11 and adjusted the hastening so that this ability has a 10 minute reuse by rank 3 at level 85 (up from 6 minutes at level 100). This ability now consumes 20% of your endurance to activate.
  • Beastlord - Falsified Death - This ability is now available at level 80 in Underfoot. This ability consumes 2% of your mana to feign death and allows you to escape combat from NPCs up to a level difference of +5 and your warder to escape combat from all NPCs, with a 2.5 minute reuse time.
  • Cleric - Divine Peace - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%), increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3), set the reuse time of this ability to be 15 minutes (up from 3 minutes), and made the ability available in Underfoot at level 85 (previously it was unlocked in Veil of Alaris at level 91).
  • Druid - Veil of the Underbrush - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%), increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3), set the reuse time of this ability to be 15 minutes (up from 3 minutes), and made the ability available in Underfoot at level 85 (previously it was unlocked in Veil of Alaris at level 95).
  • Enchanter - Friendly Stasis - Increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3). This ability now consumes 20% of your mana to activate.
  • Enchanter - Self Stasis - Increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3). Removed ranks 5-11 and adjusted the hastening so that this ability has a 10 minute reuse by rank 4 at level 85 (up from 6 minutes at level 105). This ability now consumes 20% of your mana to activate.
  • Magician - Drape of Shadows - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%), increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3). Removed ranks 2-14 and set the reuse time of this ability to be 15 minutes (up from 3 minutes at 105). This ability now consumes 20% of your mana to activate.
  • Monk - Imitate Death - Reduced the reuse of ranks 1-8 by 30 seconds. This ability now consumes 2% of your endurance to activate. Rank 9 is now available in Underfoot (it was previously unlocked in House of Thule).
  • Necromancer - Death's Effigy - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%), increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3). This ability now consumes 2% of your mana to activate. Ranks 1-4 are now available in Underfoot (rank 1 was previously unlocked in House of Thule and ranks 2-4 in Call of the Forsaken).
  • Paladin - Balefire Burst - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%), increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3), increased the reuse time to 15 minutes (up from 3 minutes) and made the ability available at level 85 in Underfoot (it was previously unlocked in House of Thule). The ability now consumes 20% of your mana to activate.
  • Ranger - Cover Tracks - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%). Removed ranks 4-15 and adjusted the hastening so that this ability has a 10 minute reuse by rank 3 at level 85 (up from 3 minutes at level 100). This ability now consumes 20% of your mana to activate.
  • Rogue - Escape - Reduced the reuse of ranks 3-11 and added rank 12 resulting in a 1.5 minute reuse timer at level 85. This ability now consumes 2% of your endurance to activate.
  • Shadowknight - Death's Effigy - This ability now consumes 2% of your mana to activate.
  • Shaman - Inconspicuous Totem - Increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3). Removed ranks 4-13 and adjusted the hastening so that this ability has a 10 minute reuse by rank 3 at level 85 (up from 4 minutes at level 105). This ability now consumes 20% of your mana to activate.
  • Warrior - Howl of the Warlord - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%), increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3), and removed the cast time. Removed ranks 2-5 and adjusted rank 1 so that this ability has a 15 minute reuse time (up from 3 minutes) at level 85 and is available in Underfoot (it was previously unlocked in House of Thule). The ability now consumes 20% of your endurance to activate.
  • Wizard - A Hole in Space - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%), increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3), set the reuse time of this ability to be 15 minutes (up from 2.5 minutes), and made the ability available in Underfoot at level 85 (previously it was unlocked in Veil of Alaris at level 95).
 
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What a bunch of fucking trash. 20% endurance to activate??? 2% of mana to activate for bards??? (the only class that can't reasonably regenerate mana). 20% of your mana for classes like rangers (with a 10 minute reuse)? 2.5 min reuse for beastlords (so much for the possibility of pulling with them)??
 
Ya this is crap! Rangers had one great facet if you were really good at playing ranger and that was pulling. Cover tracks is huge in that and with it being nerfed to 10 min timer use. I dont care so much about the mana cost but gd this is a huge nerf to pulling ability! (And really its not a 20% cost of mana , its going to be a 100% cost of mana because you will be dead from not being able to shake off those extra adds lol)
 
Ya this is crap! Rangers had one great facet if you were really good at playing ranger and that was pulling. Cover tracks is huge in that and with it being nerfed to 10 min timer use. I dont care so much about the mana cost but gd this is a huge nerf to pulling ability! (And really its not a 20% cost of mana , its going to be a 100% cost of mana because you will be dead from not being able to shake off those extra adds lol)

My ranger is near oom most of the time because of how cast heavy my .ini is... so ... fuckin cover tracks will never work for me.
 
Look at the dev that is making these changes. Same one that believes there is no space for a spell and a AA that does the same even if they are radically different.
 
I missed the broader conversation - did they say *why* they wanted to make all of these changes to escape/fade AAs? some seem borderline unreasonable
 
I missed the broader conversation - did they say *why* they wanted to make all of these changes to escape/fade AAs? some seem borderline unreasonable


The team wanted to take a moment to highlight a particular set of changes coming in next month's update and offer some insight on why these changes are being made.

The last major changes made to AA abilities that allow characters to quickly escape combat took place during the September 23, 2015 game update. Those changes involved fixing bugs with how escape functioned and increasing restrictions on how these abilities work by limiting their chance to succeed and enforcing a maximum level of NPC that characters can escape from.

Over the last four years we've watched how these changes have impacted gameplay and decided a different adjustment was in order. There were several lessons learned, some aspects of the changes we've been happy with, while other aspects have caused friction in ways that wasn't our goal.

We've reevaluated how we want to limit the power of these abilities and will be making a number of changes that we consider an overall improvement for most classes. See the following excerpt from next month's update notes.


We felt it appropriate to offer context for these changes while taking a brief review of the history of escape AA abilities.

The first of these abilities was implemented in Shadows of Luclin with the intent of letting Rogues escape a bad situation and was balanced by having a relatively long reuse time. The team considers the ability to escape death a very powerful asset.

The second escape AA ability was given to Bards in Planes of Power with instantaneous reuse and was balanced by charging a significant amount of mana, historically a very limited resource for the Bard class. This resulted in improving a Bard's ability to pull important NPCs out of a group in ways that was traditionally handled by classes with feign death. Just like escaping death for many classes, the team considers the ability to split mobs more quickly as a very powerful tool for pulling classes.

Several expansions later Monks were given Imitate Death, many expansions later Enchanters obtained Self Stasis, and during the two subsequent expansions every class gained access to an escape ability with the sole exception of Beastlords.

The proliferation of a once highly limited ability without its initial heavy restrictions was partially what prompted the changes during the 2015 update to help ensure that player power remains in a reasonable place versus the difficulty of the content.

Fundamentally, a button that you press in a dire situation that is intended to save your character's life 'should work'. The fact that many classes have a button that has a 10% chance to do nothing when activated isn't consistent and obviously causes a great deal of frustration. Additionally, having different maximum levels of opponents that you can escape from on a per class basis leads to inconsistencies we haven't been happy with.

It is for these reasons that all classes' escape abilities will now have a 100% chance to succeed on targets up to 5 levels higher than the caster. We believe that allowing these abilities to function in a consistent and reliable manner is going to make for a better experience.

That said, because we consider these abilities incredibly powerful for both their pulling and survival properties, we believe they should have a commensurate resource cost. It is for this reason that we are retuning the reuse time and adding a mana or endurance cost to all of these abilities.

We've grouped the classes together as follows to determine what the reuse time and resource cost should be.
  • Escape abilities for all classes will now have their final rank available by level 85 during the Underfoot expansion. In cases where there are now fewer ranks than there were previously we will be automatically reassigning the proper rank of your abilities so that a refund/repurchase is not necessary after logging in.
  • Escape abilities for Bards, Beastlords, Monks, Necromancers, Rogues, and Shadowknights will have a shorter reuse time (1s to 2.5 minutes) and a resource cost of 2% mana or endurance based on class.
  • Escape abilities for Berserkers, Enchanters, Rangers, and Shaman will now have a reuse time of 10 minutes and a resource cost of 20% mana or endurance based on class.
  • Escape abilities for Clerics, Druids, Magicians, Paladins, Warriors, and Wizards will now have a reuse time of 15 minutes and a resource cost of 20% mana or endurance based on class.
Our aim in messaging these changes early is to give time to consider community feedback and so that you can plan ahead to /testcopy for next month's test server update to test out how these changes impact your gameplay.

Dzarn, Yesterday at 6:01 PM
 
It seems Beastlords are about the only class getting some benefit. Beastlords are getting new fade (2.5 min re-use) while keeping Playing Possum. Maybe I'm understanding this wrong, idk.
 
It seems Beastlords are about the only class getting some benefit. Beastlords are getting new fade (2.5 min re-use) while keeping Playing Possum. Maybe I'm understanding this wrong, idk.

My impression is playing possum will go away and be replaced by this new ability.
 
Am I the only one who sees this change as good thing.
I believe these AAs are great and were meant to be used to escape in an emergency.
This will restore some sanity to pulling classes. Max AA for bards fade 2% mana. Yes If you are pulling correctly you don't need to use fade every pull.
 
I simply see useless AA and dev time wasted. If you are fighting and things go so south that you need to escape like this then you probably also do not meet the necessary mana/endurance requirement. If you are moving somewhere and need to fade then 15 minutes later you can get off your butt and start moving again.

So once pigs fly you might use this. On raids forget it the cost is simply too high,
 
I have to agree with Maskoi, reading the replies in that thread makes it pretty clear that people had discovered creative uses for the abilities that had nothing to do with why they'd been put in the game. They should be happy that the devs didn't just remove them and revert the older fade abilities back to what they had been
 
I have to agree with Maskoi, reading the replies in that thread makes it pretty clear that people had discovered creative uses for the abilities that had nothing to do with why they'd been put in the game. They should be happy that the devs didn't just remove them and revert the older fade abilities back to what they had been

OF COURSE players are going to come up with creative uses for abilities put into the game. That's what we're supposed to do.

Nerfing them because the devs didn't think about secondary or tertiary effects is stupid, though. Unless it's SUPER disruptive to the game, which none of the fade changes were, then its just wasted time they could have been doing one of the 1000 other projects we actually want but they never seem to have time to complete.
 
then its just wasted time they could have been doing one of the 1000 other projects we actually want but they never seem to have time to complete.
This is what angers me, there is always time to nerf stuff but things like necro dot revamped now about 3 years delayed then the audacity by dev to blame players for it not happening
 
I dont get why it has to be changed at all to be honest. I mean...why? Why now? As a puller, in a place where 2 mobs beating on you will kill you at max level / aa... in a few rounds... ummm...

You are in a dungeon and a room has to be broke... you want to bring the ph out into the hallway... you have to snare the ph and they all come like they know you are a punk ranger bitch, your group is sweating whats now on the extended target and you drop thanks to cover tracks. You are the puller. You've been doing this for years. You lay there waiting. The mobs not snared shrug eventually and walk away but your snared ph is still hanging there...bring him to camp. Then break the room, after 3 minutes you could rinse and repeat.

I dont get how anyone thinks that changing this ability to a longer refresh time is a good thing. For classes that were meant to be pullers like bards or rangers that dont have feign death this is a blatant nerf of one of their facets of pulling.

I mean no offense @Maskoi, but I am never going to ever think this is a good thing. Its always been a main staple in pulling on my ranger at end game. Sure, if you are dicking around with two or three mobs that are puntable, vinelashable blah blah blah i dont want to hear it but... if you know wtf you are doing, and bringing end game mobs to a group as a ranger, that you know will round your cleric or anyone else, you have to use ranger fade ie cover tracks. Now with a 10 minute refresh timer? ....Have to wait ten minutes to rebreak that room oh wait...by then the other mobs will have respawned so... BAHHHHHHH

The 20 percent mana cost is a whole other issue with a ranger as well, as they are always oom because of the cost of their spells to keep dps rolling , which has needed to be adjusted but hasnt. All I will say about that at this time. I am obviously most bent about the timer change to rangers on there "fade". Lame.

I give it a thumbs down. I rank it with the first nerf they gave to mage earth pets.
 
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  • All - AA abilities that allow characters to escape combat have been retuned to provide a more consistent experience. Now, rather than some classes' escape abilities relying on level limits and variable success chances, all AA escape abilities will have a 100% chance to succeed on opponents up to 5 levels above the caster, they will trigger their secondary invisibility or sanctuary buffs regardless of proximity to attackers, and they will reduce the amount of hatred any NPC the caster fails to escape from by 1 million points. These abilities will now have higher reuse times and resource costs for most classes, as this better reflects our vision for these abilities.
  • Pet Users - Summon Companion - Rank 2 now provides a 100% chance for your pet to escape combat from all NPCs (up from a level difference of +3 and a maximum success chance of 95% at rank 4). Removed ranks 2 and 3 of this ability and made rank 2 available in Underfoot. Ranks 1 and 2 now consume 1% of your mana to activate.
  • Bard - Fading Memories - Removed ranks 4-40. Ranks 1-3 now consume 12, 6, and 2% of your maximum mana to activate. This ability now applies Evader's Invisibility regardless of your proximity to attackers.
  • Beastlord - Falsified Death - This ability is now available at level 80 in Underfoot. This ability consumes 2% of your maximum mana to feign death, allows you to escape combat from NPCs up to 5 levels higher than you, allows your warder to escape combat from all NPCs, triggers Evader's Invisibility, and has a 2.5 minute reuse time.
  • Berserker - Self Preservation - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%), increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3), and removed the self-stun component of this ability. Removed ranks 4-11 and adjusted the hastening so that this ability has a 10 minute reuse by rank 3 at level 85 (up from 6 minutes at level 100). This ability now applies Evader's Temporary Sanctuary regardless of your proximity to attackers. This ability now consumes 8% of your maximum endurance to activate.
  • Cleric - Divine Peace - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%), increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3), set the reuse time of this ability to be 10 minutes (up from 3 minutes), removed the 0.25 second cast time, and made the ability available in Underfoot at level 85 (previously Veil of Alaris at level 91). This ability now applies Evader's Temporary Sanctuary regardless of your proximity to attackers. This ability now consumes 8% of your maximum mana to activate.
  • Druid - Veil of the Underbrush - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%), increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3), set the reuse time of this ability to be 10 minutes (up from 3 minutes), and made the ability available in Underfoot at level 85 (previously Veil of Alaris at level 95). This ability now applies Evader's Invisibility regardless of your proximity to attackers. This ability now consumes 8% of your maximum mana to activate.
  • Enchanter - Friendly Stasis - Increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3). Fixed the mesmerization duration to be 18 seconds rather than 30 seconds. This ability now applies Evadee's Invisibility regardless of your target's proximity to attackers. This ability now consumes 8% of your maximum mana to activate.
  • Enchanter - Self Stasis - Increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3). Removed ranks 5-11 and adjusted the hastening so that this ability has a 5 minute reuse by rank 4 at level 85 (down from 6 minutes at level 105). Fixed the mesmerization duration to be 18 seconds rather than 30 seconds. This ability now applies Evader's Invisibility regardless of your proximity to attackers. This ability now consumes 8% of your maximum mana to activate.
  • Magician - Drape of Shadows - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%), increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3). Removed ranks 2-14 and set the reuse time of this ability to be 10 minutes (up from 3 minutes at 105). This ability now applies Evader's Invisibility regardless of your proximity to attackers. This ability now consumes 8% of your maximum mana to activate.
  • Monk - Imitate Death - Reduced the reuse of ranks 1-8 by 30 seconds. Rank 9 is now available in Underfoot (previously House of Thule). This ability now applies Evader's Temporary Invisibility regardless of your proximity to attackers. This ability now consumes 2% of your maximum endurance to activate.
  • Necromancer - Death's Effigy - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%), increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3). Ranks 1-4 are now available in Underfoot (previously House of Thule for rank 1 and Call of the Forsaken for ranks 2-4). This ability now applies Evader's Invisibility regardless of your proximity to attackers. This ability now consumes 2% of your maximum mana to activate.
  • Paladin - Balefire Burst - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%), increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3), increased the reuse time to 10 minutes (up from 3 minutes), removed the 0.5 second cast time, and made the ability available at level 85 in Underfoot (previously House of Thule). The ability now consumes 8% of your maximum mana to activate.
  • Ranger - Cover Tracks - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%). Removed ranks 4-15 and adjusted the hastening so that this ability has a 10 minute reuse by rank 3 at level 85 (up from 3 minutes at level 100). This ability now applies Evader's Invisibility regardless of your proximity to attackers. This ability now consumes 8% of your mana to activate.
  • Rogue - Escape - Reduced the reuse of ranks 3-11 and added rank 12 resulting in a 1.5 minute reuse timer at level 85. This ability now applies Evader's Invisibility / Evader's Shroud of Stealth regardless of your proximity to attackers. This ability now consumes 2% of your maximum endurance to activate.
  • Shadowknight - Death's Effigy - This ability now applies Evader's Invisibility regardless of your proximity to attackers. This ability now consumes 2% of your maximum mana to activate.
  • Shaman - Inconspicuous Totem - Increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3). Removed ranks 4-13 and adjusted the hastening so that this ability has a 10 minute reuse by rank 3 at level 85 (up from 4 minutes at level 105). This ability now applies Evader's Invisibility regardless of your proximity to attackers. This ability now consumes 8% of your maximum mana to activate.
  • Warrior - Howl of the Warlord - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%), increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3), and removed the 0.5 second cast time. Removed ranks 2-5 and adjusted rank 1 so that this ability has a 10 minute reuse time (up from 3 minutes) at level 85 and is available in Underfoot (previously House of Thule). This ability now applies Evader's Temporary Sanctuary regardless of your proximity to attackers. This ability now consumes 8% of your maximum endurance to activate.
  • Wizard - A Hole in Space - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%), increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3), set the reuse time of this ability to be 10 minutes (up from 2.5 minutes), and made the ability available in Underfoot at level 85 (previously Veil of Alaris at level 95). This ability now applies Evader's Invisibility regardless of your proximity to attackers. This ability now consumes 8% of your maximum mana to activate.
===================

  • Classes that were changed to have a 15 minute reuse timer in the initial proposal will now have a 10 minute timer.
  • Enchanter Self Stasis have been changed to have a 5 minute reuse timer (now an improvement rather than a nerf).
  • Abilities that were changed to have a 20% resource cost will now have an 8% resource cost. To clarify, this cost is a percentage of your total mana or endurance (not your remaining mana or endurance).
  • All escape abilities that previously had a cast time are now instant cast.
  • All escape abilities will now apply their secondary effects (invisibility or sanctuary) regardless of the caster's proximity to attackers.
  • All escape abilities will now reduce your aggro with any NPCs you fail to escape from by 1 million points.
In addition to these changes, we've made the following adjustment to spells for the October update:
  • All melee classes - Hiatus can now be activated in combat. It still has the melee speed penalty and endurance cap.

Dzarn updated the original post.
 
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I dislike that the mana/end cost is based on percent of your pool and not a static value. When this goes into affect, these abilities will always cost 2-8% of your total, now and forever. So as you gear up and get more mana/end, fade becomes more costly at the same rate. We should have been able to push off the cost of fade as time goes on.
 
I dislike that the mana/end cost is based on percent of your pool and not a static value. When this goes into affect, these abilities will always cost 2-8% of your total, now and forever. So as you gear up and get more mana/end, fade becomes more costly at the same rate. We should have been able to push off the cost of fade as time goes on.
I totally agree. Stupid how the more powerful you get the worse this will get.
 
===================

  • Classes that were changed to have a 15 minute reuse timer in the initial proposal will now have a 10 minute timer.
  • Enchanter Self Stasis have been changed to have a 5 minute reuse timer (now an improvement rather than a nerf).
  • Abilities that were changed to have a 20% resource cost will now have an 8% resource cost. To clarify, this cost is a percentage of your total mana or endurance (not your remaining mana or endurance).
  • All escape abilities that previously had a cast time are now instant cast.
  • All escape abilities will now apply their secondary effects (invisibility or sanctuary) regardless of the caster's proximity to attackers.
  • All escape abilities will now reduce your aggro with any NPCs you fail to escape from by 1 million points.
In addition to these changes, we've made the following adjustment to spells for the October update:
  • All melee classes - Hiatus can now be activated in combat. It still has the melee speed penalty and endurance cap.

Dzarn updated the original post.
This is part of what is so concerning --- how can they make such broad changes and then within a few days say "you know, 15 minutes does *sound* like a lot, let's do 10 instead --- and "you know, 20% resource does sound like a lot, let's do (rolls a D20) 8%"

How can you make changes so large and yet have such a large margin that you're willing to immediately change to? this tells me it hasn't been thought out or internally tested very well.

some of these changes make sense - some of them are just stupid, and in context of the broader game, are short-sighted. take cleric fade now going to be a 15 10 minute cooldown up from 3 minutes - the majority of the time i end up fading is due to game stupidity - like mobs warping/teleporting, depending on the pathing of the zone/event 10 minutes is going to be frustrating.

There was some conversation on discord yesterday which was silly too - it said basically that this stuff is getting changed because people weren't using it as intended, and suggested we should have mages in zones/camps around the game to move if we wanted to use fade to run places --- the purpose of aggro drop is to drop aggro - there's no context for that, no conditions that must be met - it is to drop aggro - I'd argue making mages and parking them all over the world in any camp i need/want to run to if a far leap from "intended" use of fade abilities lol.

I'm wondering if there was some raid event somewhere that you were able to bug out with fade abilities and they wanted to find a way to eliminate that "sploit" - its gotta be either that or some more TLP bullshit
 
1. The Devs trolled the EQ Community. Now the community feels like its a win for them. These new changes are most likely what the devs had in mind from the start.
2. New xpac is coming out. How can they not give us fade ability AA level increases with out first making them worse :)
3. Too many thing were working right. Needed to introduce new bugs for statistical analysis for the "how screwed up are we" award.
 
Yep agree, we got trolled hard. Almost as if devs looked at politicians and their tactics. Also another reason not to report broken stuff to them/live and learn
 
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