Question - Small Army Composition: Need Advice.

[Valdemar]

Currently, I have 2 groups as follows:

Melee Group
SK
BRD
SHM
RNG
BST
ROG

Caster Group
PAL
BRD
DRU
ENC
MAG
NEC

I've been playing these two groups independently of one another, until recently, when I started playing them as a single force to practice all the skills necessary for running an army. Additionally, I have cobbled together the makings of a tank group as follows:

Provisional Tank Group
War
SK - not created yet so which class to include here is open, but leaning toward an SK.
BRD
RNG
CLR
SHM

I need some advice on the tank group, specifically, but I welcome any reasonable suggestions about any group composition. Secondly, I have some "left-over" characters that I've inherited and I was think of forming a 4th junk group and I'd like some suggestions on how to best integrate these toons.

Junk Left-over Group
RNG
DRU
MAG
ENC

Thanks. I should mention that this is as large an army as I'm looking to build as I'm still new to controlling multiple groups and I'm a very casual player.

 

[eqsubi15]

I'm by no means super proficient in running multiple groups, but I have a similar raid force as you do. I've been able to do various ToV, CoV, and NoS raids without it being too crazy. For starters, I don't necessarily build them into tank and dps groups. I pretty much leave the structure as group setups (tank, cc, dps x2, support, healer). Based on my success on various targets lead me to adjusting toon counts. For example, if healing was an issue, I would swap out a support or dps for another healer and so forth.

I place all tanks under healer's extended target window. I put my beefiest tank as the raid MA, which is also my driving toon. If he falls, the other tanks grab aggro and continue on without much of an issue. Granted, they tend to fight over aggro sometimes, but it has been a blessing in disguise to lean out the burst damage on the MT that could have killed him in those moments.

I don't know what plugins you use, but I found that keeping all toons under CWTN plugins made it super easy to manage. I'm sure others can chime in with having a mix of CWTN, RGMercs, and KA with just as much success.

What I would recommend is just play around with keeping the group structure and invite them all into a raid. Practice having them all follow, assist, etc. Best places for simple targets to do that would be raid instances in various expansions where you can kill a bunch of raid trash. Added bonus to get some Luck augs too while you're at it.

Make sure to have 1 toon with logging on so you can review the parses later and see where you need improvement on.

Best of luck

 

[Sentient_Pasta]

I've had great success running a Tank/DPS group with the following makeup:
WAR
SK
SHM
BRD
BER
BST

The ADPS from the group is very good. I use the SK as a DPS class mostly and occasionally as a backup tank if the warrior goes down. I make sure that SK epic is up as often as possible and use Spirit Drinker's coating on the warrior early and often to fill in gaps in the SK epic timer. I've been able to out-tank and out-DPS other groups for a long time. For Hstats I do HDex on everyone except the Shaman, who gets HSta. Warrior's gear is all AC-heavy, not HP, to promote strong mitigation and high DPS output. The Shaman and SK bring enough healing ability to the group to not need a second healer (but getting bonus heals from out-of-group healers definitely helps on higher-hitting raids)

For Melee group i've found that the following makeup works well:
BST
BER
ROG
MNK
BRD
SHM

Maximize ADPS and let the tank group do the tanking. The classes are well rounded so all sorts of mobs take all sorts of damage

Hope that helps! Ultimately it's best to have fun, regardless of the group you have. A "well built" group isn't worth anything if you don't enjoy playing it

 

[Valdemar]

I'm by no means super proficient in running multiple groups, but I have a similar raid force as you do. I've been able to do various ToV, CoV, and NoS raids without it being too crazy. For starters, I don't necessarily build them into tank and dps groups. I pretty much leave the structure as group setups (tank, cc, dps x2, support, healer). Based on my success on various targets lead me to adjusting toon counts. For example, if healing was an issue, I would swap out a support or dps for another healer and so forth.

I place all tanks under healer's extended target window. I put my beefiest tank as the raid MA, which is also my driving toon. If he falls, the other tanks grab aggro and continue on without much of an issue. Granted, they tend to fight over aggro sometimes, but it has been a blessing in disguise to lean out the burst damage on the MT that could have killed him in those moments.

I don't know what plugins you use, but I found that keeping all toons under CWTN plugins made it super easy to manage. I'm sure others can chime in with having a mix of CWTN, RGMercs, and KA with just as much success.

What I would recommend is just play around with keeping the group structure and invite them all into a raid. Practice having them all follow, assist, etc. Best places for simple targets to do that would be raid instances in various expansions where you can kill a bunch of raid trash. Added bonus to get some Luck augs too while you're at it.

Make sure to have 1 toon with logging on so you can review the parses later and see where you need improvement on.

Best of luck

Good stuff! Sincere thanks.

 

[Valdemar]

I've had great success running a Tank/DPS group with the following makeup:
WAR
SK
SHM
BRD
BER
BST

The ADPS from the group is very good. I use the SK as a DPS class mostly and occasionally as a backup tank if the warrior goes down. I make sure that SK epic is up as often as possible and use Spirit Drinker's coating on the warrior early and often to fill in gaps in the SK epic timer. I've been able to out-tank and out-DPS other groups for a long time. For Hstats I do HDex on everyone except the Shaman, who gets HSta. Warrior's gear is all AC-heavy, not HP, to promote strong mitigation and high DPS output. The Shaman and SK bring enough healing ability to the group to not need a second healer (but getting bonus heals from out-of-group healers definitely helps on higher-hitting raids)

For Melee group i've found that the following makeup works well:
BST
BER
ROG
MNK
BRD
SHM

Maximize ADPS and let the tank group do the tanking. The classes are well rounded so all sorts of mobs take all sorts of damage

Hope that helps! Ultimately it's best to have fun, regardless of the group you have. A "well built" group isn't worth anything if you don't enjoy playing it

It would feel weird not having a plate tank in front of my other groups, but the MNK as the lead in my melee group makes a lot of sense. I could then sub the SK from that group into the tank group. I suppose I could also move the PAL to the tank group and drop the RNG. This would allow me to add one of my left over casters to this group. Probably the ENC. I was hoping to not create anymore new toons, but converting the melee group into a pure DPS group is worth consideration.

Good tips. Thanks.

 

[Tim2051]

Currently, I have 2 groups as follows:

Melee Group
SK
BRD
SHM
RNG
BST
ROG

Caster Group
PAL
BRD
DRU
ENC
MAG
NEC

I've been playing these two groups independently of one another, until recently, when I started playing them as a single force to practice all the skills necessary for running an army. Additionally, I have cobbled together the makings of a tank group as follows:

Provisional Tank Group
War
SK - not created yet so which class to include here is open, but leaning toward an SK.
BRD
RNG
CLR
SHM

I need some advice on the tank group, specifically, but I welcome any reasonable suggestions about any group composition. Secondly, I have some "left-over" characters that I've inherited and I was think of forming a 4th junk group and I'd like some suggestions on how to best integrate these toons.

Junk Left-over Group
RNG
DRU
MAG
ENC

Thanks. I should mention that this is as large an army as I'm looking to build as I'm still new to controlling multiple groups and I'm a very casual player.

Something to keep in mind for any raid groups when it comes to tanks is the synergy with them together. Having both a shaman and cleric’s aura is good stuff. And if you’re adding a knight, a paladin would provide additional group heals and a backup rezzer - which you’re light on when it comes to combat rezzes.

Xtarget is a great thing!

Monks also have a good def aura - but no clue if it’s actually passable.

 

[Darkwynd3]

One thing to keep in mind, is that while optimizing groups is always valuable, you're going to see far greater increases in what you can accomplish, by learning to drive your 3-4 groups, and writing small scripts than anything you'll gain from moving this toon here or that toon there in your group setups. Don't get too lost in the minutia of group setups and synergies when your real capability is locked behind your ability to maneuver and control your teams.

 

[rbf3]

A friend and i each run 24 characters and do raids with the 48 of them. It's probably the most fun i have had in the 20+ years of playing EQ. Of my 24 i have a tank group War,War,(War or SK) Shm,Cle,Bard. Some raids i like to have the 3 War in the MT group and others i like the SK. Then i have 2 Melee DPS groups and a caster DPS group. First Melee group = Bard, Shm, Rog , Mnk , Raner, BL. Second melee group = Bard , Shm , Rog , Mnk, (SK or War) , (Cleric or Ranger ) again depending on event. Then my caster group = Bard , Dru, Enc , Mag , Nec , (Ranger or Cleric) . Any group i make will have a bard because they just add so much to any group. This is my setup, I like it a lot and most importantly have a blast with it. So as many have said play what you enjoy to play and make it work.

RBF3

 

[519helvis]

all great ideas listed above ... i roll with a few folks and play the main tank group ... i guess my first question is what do you plan on raiding and how geared are your tanks. my main tank gruop is

war
war
clr
clr
brd
shm

its very linear for sure but it can pretty much stand up to almost anything we tackle (endgame ToB)

i use the cwtn plugs and offset all the healing between the clrs and shm. with reckless on the shm being the holy sh*t button ... also use buttonmaster to tank swap if one of the wars goes down. the bard is there for the all the goodies bards always bring to a group in this case tanky song stuffs

so again depending on what your goals are and how well geared the tanks are you can always sub in other classes ... but ive been running this group now for a few years and have had almost no failure with it.

 

[Valdemar]

One thing to keep in mind, is that while optimizing groups is always valuable, you're going to see far greater increases in what you can accomplish, by learning to drive your 3-4 groups, and writing small scripts than anything you'll gain from moving this toon here or that toon there in your group setups. Don't get too lost in the minutia of group setups and synergies when your real capability is locked behind your ability to maneuver and control your teams.

Thanks very much for the suggestions. While I'm sure you're correct, it's not realistic given my schedule that I could learn and then write Lua scripts. All I can reasonably do is use the existing library of scripts that our fellow community members have created. I appreciate the insights.

 

[Valdemar]

all great ideas listed above ... i roll with a few folks and play the main tank group ... i guess my first question is what do you plan on raiding and how geared are your tanks. my main tank gruop is

war
war
clr
clr
brd
shm

its very linear for sure but it can pretty much stand up to almost anything we tackle (endgame ToB)

i use the cwtn plugs and offset all the healing between the clrs and shm. with reckless on the shm being the holy sh*t button ... also use buttonmaster to tank swap if one of the wars goes down. the bard is there for the all the goodies bards always bring to a group in this case tanky song stuffs

so again depending on what your goals are and how well geared the tanks are you can always sub in other classes ... but ive been running this group now for a few years and have had almost no failure with it.

It's a good question and I don't have an answer. I've been doing single group content and playing intermittently at that. So right now, I'm in the learning stage of running multiple groups. I've been farting around in older content that presents no real risk just to get familiar with control. Since I don't plan any time in the foreseeable future of doing more than the 3-4 groups I have now, I may be limited to what content I can do. I think to start with, I'll try and conquer some older content raids and then progress more or less in line with the expansions.

As for my tank group, based on what toons I have and the suggestions made, I'll roll with:

WAR
SK
PAL
BRD
SHM
CLR

and then add a melee DPS to my melee group (I'm liking the MNK suggestion) and either a ENC or MAG to the existing caster group. As for my leftovers, I'd have 2 RNG, a DRU, and either an ENC or MAG depending on which one I don't put in the existing caster group. Not sure how to fix that group. Oh, and thanks for the buttonmaster suggestion. Any suggestions or critiques are welcome.

Appreciate it.

 

[Valdemar]

A friend and i each run 24 characters and do raids with the 48 of them. It's probably the most fun i have had in the 20+ years of playing EQ. Of my 24 i have a tank group War,War,(War or SK) Shm,Cle,Bard. Some raids i like to have the 3 War in the MT group and others i like the SK. Then i have 2 Melee DPS groups and a caster DPS group. First Melee group = Bard, Shm, Rog , Mnk , Raner, BL. Second melee group = Bard , Shm , Rog , Mnk, (SK or War) , (Cleric or Ranger ) again depending on event. Then my caster group = Bard , Dru, Enc , Mag , Nec , (Ranger or Cleric) . Any group i make will have a bard because they just add so much to any group. This is my setup, I like it a lot and most importantly have a blast with it. So as many have said play what you enjoy to play and make it work.

RBF3

A question about your caster group: The inclusion of a CLR is obvious, but a RNG? I'm intrigued. Can you elaborate on that choice?

Thanks for the tips.

 

[reedreddington]

A question about your caster group: The inclusion of a CLR is obvious, but a RNG? I'm intrigued. Can you elaborate on that choice?

Thanks for the tips.

Scarlet Cheetah Fang. Worth reading over.

 

[RobRenfro]

Currently, I have 2 groups as follows:

Melee Group
SK
BRD
SHM
RNG
BST
ROG

Caster Group
PAL
BRD
DRU
ENC
MAG
NEC

I've been playing these two groups independently of one another, until recently, when I started playing them as a single force to practice all the skills necessary for running an army. Additionally, I have cobbled together the makings of a tank group as follows:

Provisional Tank Group
War
SK - not created yet so which class to include here is open, but leaning toward an SK.
BRD
RNG
CLR
SHM

I need some advice on the tank group, specifically, but I welcome any reasonable suggestions about any group composition. Secondly, I have some "left-over" characters that I've inherited and I was think of forming a 4th junk group and I'd like some suggestions on how to best integrate these toons.

Junk Left-over Group
RNG
DRU
MAG
ENC

Thanks. I should mention that this is as large an army as I'm looking to build as I'm still new to controlling multiple groups and I'm a very casual player.

Honestly it looks like you have it pretty well figured out.

 

[Ssoulle]

It really depends on your goals and if you are teaming up. If you are doing current raids, some require a decent number of tanks.

For a tank group, brd/shm/clr/sk/war/war is fine. there is nothing in this expac that needs paladin splash, so unless you just really like the paladin for some reason.

For melee groups, monks are just incredibly strong right now. Being that a melee group has to have brd/bst/ber/shm, the last 2 slots are the only real flexibility. I dont think any melee is worth a slot over a mnk, so that leaves 1 flex slot. Having at least 1 rng is great, auspice is the best raid cooldown in the game. And because of meleequest, you'll want a second melee group.

For casters, mages are a half step below the other 2 right now. necros definitely shine most tob fights, because there is often more than 1 target to dot. But there are a lot of caster comps that work.
Brd/enc is obviously a lock. If you stay wizard, then you must keep a druid, but the druid does nothing for the necro. If you are keeping mag/nec, then swapping the druid to a shaman benefits both classes better. Then slotting in another necro or mage instead of the paladin.

All this doesnt matter if you arent raiding or doing hard content. If you are just doing old raids or xp grinds and stuff, keep in mind that the difficulty of EQ is such that an sk/shm/brd can 3 box the essentially entire groupable game, so the optimization only matters as much as you want it to.

 

[fakename]

you already have two tanks. dont make a third tank group. just make one new tank in that group and then put all the tanks in the group together. i run 18 when i split them up to do missions i do the whole sk shm brd dpsx3 and when i put them together in a raid i have a tank group and two dps groups. my tank group is skx3 brd shm clr and my dps groups are bst ber ber brd shm mnk and clr brd enc wizx3.

for your groups incorporate the junk group into the other groups.

sk pal war shm clr brd for the tank group

rog bst rng brd ber shm

mag mag dru enc brd rng

then the left overs can go in a group with the 2nd druid but i would just not use them also i dont think you need 3 rangers and a ber would help the melee group greatly from aura and synergy aa but if you want 3 rangers do that instead
ssoulles advice is how i would do it but i was trying to offer an alternative to swaping out most of your dudes

 

[Valdemar]

you already have two tanks. dont make a third tank group. just make one new tank in that group and then put all the tanks in the group together. i run 18 when i split them up to do missions i do the whole sk shm brd dpsx3 and when i put them together in a raid i have a tank group and two dps groups. my tank group is skx3 brd shm clr and my dps groups are bst ber ber brd shm mnk and clr brd enc wizx3.

for your groups incorporate the junk group into the other groups.

sk pal war shm clr brd for the tank group

rog bst rng brd ber shm

mag mag dru enc brd rng

then the left overs can go in a group with the 2nd druid but i would just not use them also i dont think you need 3 rangers and a ber would help the melee group greatly from aura and synergy aa but if you want 3 rangers do that instead
ssoulles advice is how i would do it but i was trying to offer an alternative to swaping out most of your dudes

Thanks for the advice, and you're right, I don't need so many RNGs and PALs. The left-over junk group was toons that I inherited from a friend who stopped playing a few years ago, which is where the extra PALs and RNGs come in. They are decently equipped, AA'd, and leveled so I am hoping to put them to use eventually, but it would NOT be an ideal group. As far as the melee group goes, I'm going with MNK over BER for the SK that moved to the tank group. And the caster group has a NEC in place of your extra MAG. Excepting these changes, my three groups are the same.

 

[Valdemar]

Honestly it looks like you have it pretty well figured out.

Thanks Rob. Appreciate you.

 

[Valdemar]

It really depends on your goals and if you are teaming up. If you are doing current raids, some require a decent number of tanks.

For a tank group, brd/shm/clr/sk/war/war is fine. there is nothing in this expac that needs paladin splash, so unless you just really like the paladin for some reason.

For melee groups, monks are just incredibly strong right now. Being that a melee group has to have brd/bst/ber/shm, the last 2 slots are the only real flexibility. I dont think any melee is worth a slot over a mnk, so that leaves 1 flex slot. Having at least 1 rng is great, auspice is the best raid cooldown in the game. And because of meleequest, you'll want a second melee group.

For casters, mages are a half step below the other 2 right now. necros definitely shine most tob fights, because there is often more than 1 target to dot. But there are a lot of caster comps that work.
Brd/enc is obviously a lock. If you stay wizard, then you must keep a druid, but the druid does nothing for the necro. If you are keeping mag/nec, then swapping the druid to a shaman benefits both classes better. Then slotting in another necro or mage instead of the paladin.

All this doesnt matter if you arent raiding or doing hard content. If you are just doing old raids or xp grinds and stuff, keep in mind that the difficulty of EQ is such that an sk/shm/brd can 3 box the essentially entire groupable game, so the optimization only matters as much as you want it to.

Great advice. It isn't rational, but I just didn't want to create a bunch of new toons, so transferring the PAL to the tank group was the main reason he's there. Melee group is MNK, BRD, SHM, RNG, BST, ROG and caster group is RNG, BRD, DRU, ENC, MAG, NEC. This meant creating the MNK and NEC, but worth it. As far as my choice of content, it's purely driven at this point by the need for training wheels and limited play time. Once I feel comfortable with controlling 3 groups, I'll definitely seek a greater challenge. Having said that, there is also just a lot of older raid content I've not done. So doing them is more about exploring, experiencing, and completion than jumping to the hardest possible content I could conceivably do. I'm sure I'll get there eventually. Again, many thanks.

 

[fakename]

if you have the time to create the automation i have to imagine everything cov and below is 3 groupable. some stuff will be hard though esp in tbl while tbl is scritable some of it is painful with low amounts of people.