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Tech - Slow zoning and High CPU useage (1 Viewer)

Joined
Sep 7, 2020
RedCents
1,061¢
I am boxing 30 accts. I am running into high CPU Useage and slow zoning times. Characters will zone but takes a long time to render all screens. I have great internet service with pings in the 30-40 range.

Sometimes all accts will freeze up and I generally have to reboot.

What can I do to speed up zoning times and fix problems?

System:
3900 Ryzen
3070TI
64 gig
2tb NVME

Software:
Win 11
ISBoxer
RG MacroQuest build

EQ:
New Models off
Low settings for all
Mip mapping/dynamic lighting on
All other settings off
 
Since i do not use this on my laptop for my farm teams, it doesnt matter much!


Since ive completed it to the laptop, i can now run 12 toons with no problems and it doesnt sound like a jet engine now.

With the regard to Lua, maybe someone else can jump in for how this is effected. Not sure hot an xbox app would influence this.
It doesn't/shouldnt
 
Interesting... I removed that while all 43 clients where running and added Lua scripts after the removal and had no problem - perhaps after relogin I get the bill. I will test that after the weekend.
What concerns me most and what I don't understand in any ways:

None of these tools showed ANY sign that my system is somehow at the limit:

- Coretemp (CPU temp)
- Task-Manager (overview of all CPU/GPU/ETHERNET/RAM/GPU-RAM)
- GPU-Z (GPU temp)
- CPUID HWMonitor (replacement for testing)

After my changes (s. above) and removal of a couple of plugins for starting all clients step by step instead of using autologin.dll from the start which seemed to kick the system to the "stuttering" edge and after stopping logs "/log off", I could load all clients at least for starting overseer (which kicks the CPU to 100% for a short time until /endmac). Using "/framelimiter bgfps 0" was great for playing a couple of groups but playing all in a raid drops the DPS into the cellar and is pretty useless in this setup. Using "/framelimiter bgfps 1" resulted in proper loading of all clients (with the usual case to case "no validation" or "an error occurred"-errors from the usual not working login-servers of DGB). After that I changed the "/framelimiter bgfps" according the the toons I played at the moment. Depending on the zones and the complexitiy of the graphics I had around 30-80% CPU consumption with these changes. Interesting is that the Task-Manager shows "100% GPU" while zoning which drops down to nothingness after the zones are loaded. The "stuttering/near freezes" started always when I loaded all clients at once. What I don't understand is why NONE of the tools show any sign of problems with the system performance at all when the "stuttering/freezes" occur.
Perhaps anybody else has an idea why?
 
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Short note about Lua:

- removed XBOX Game App
- checked Task-Manager - no Game App anymore present
- loaded EQ
- started /lua run buttonmaster -> worked
- started settings and Lua Task Manager -> worked
- activated Viewports in the settings
- dragged the windows to the second LCD-Screen (outside of EQ into the Windows Screen) -> worked

Where does Lua need that App? Didn't noticed any disfunctions.
And I normally don't use Lua outside of EQ but its a nice feature because accidentally switching screens while on Lua buttonmaster window makes the window/toon move/change slowly uncontrollable the axis of the screen, which is really nasty in a critical hasty situation. That above action does mean to me that Overlay indeed works without that App.
 
After several ours of playtime sometimes I start to notice that the reaction time of chars seem to decrease. If that happens a log to char select fails for half of the team. Even if not camping to char select and continuing playing eventually I'll get cc's.

I created a Hotbutton:
/dggae /lua stop
/dggae /endmacro
/dggae /reloadui

After I used this hotbutton, all chars seem to run like eq has been started from scratch.
Also I can log to char select to log my buffing chars in for fresh buffs and can restart playing as I have been fresh logged in.

My interpretation is: /reloadui closes and restarts the eq-task(s) handling the ui, clearing also the memory leaks created during the past ours.
While /reloadui freezes the UI for a while, only maybe once in 50 times it causes a cc, for my feeling only when eq was running too long since the start or the last /reloadui.

Since I try to remember to /reloadui with this hotbutton after any about 5 ours of playing I don't get anymore cc while playing.
 
After several ours of playtime sometimes I start to notice that the reaction time of chars seem to decrease. If that happens a log to char select fails for half of the team. Even if not camping to char select and continuing playing eventually I'll get cc's.

I created a Hotbutton:
/dggae /lua stop
/dggae /endmacro
/dggae /reloadui

After I used this hotbutton, all chars seem to run like eq has been started from scratch.
Also I can log to char select to log my buffing chars in for fresh buffs and can restart playing as I have been fresh logged in.

My interpretation is: /reloadui closes and restarts the eq-task(s) handling the ui, clearing also the memory leaks created during the past ours.
While /reloadui freezes the UI for a while, only maybe once in 50 times it causes a cc, for my feeling only when eq was running too long since the start or the last /reloadui.

Since I try to remember to /reloadui with this hotbutton after any about 5 ours of playing I don't get anymore cc while playing.
Out of curiosity, are you using the new control+~ console for all your mq chat?
 
Food for thought. I noticed today before work on my eq options window, they have listing now for FPS foreground and bground settings. WHat are some of yall using for this? Does MQ FPS override this? since we are on the topic of resources and such.
 
Before EQ Next I used MQ2FPS and MQ2Viewport to shrink the wasting of resources.
After x64client and EQ Next I used /framelimiter bgfps / fgfps because I had big trouble with performance output and it has been removed.
Using /framelimiter bgfps 5-10 and /fgfps 30 for gameplay, bgfps 1 for minimum action which are not performance relevant but are necessary for a couple of macros to execute und bgfps 0 for parking toons or the usual mules and buffing stations or macros which have no problem with no window fps.

Advantage: system works with many toons
Disadvantage: mission or raids which are really performance relevant or at the edge of the dps score are nearly impossible to do
Solution: kicking all clients who are not really needed to boost dps (very sad)

To say that: before x64 and MQ Next I had much better overall dps in a raid config that since the changes. And I have to say I updated my whole system out of that reason and even then I need around 2-3 PCs for proper dps scores in raids which needs them. If not configured properly then the dps goes down 1/2 to 1/3 of possible normal output.

Perhaps I should test MQ2FPS and MQ2Viewport again. They didn't worked quite properly short after the changes to x64/Next so I changed and never tested them again.
 
Before EQ Next I used MQ2FPS and MQ2Viewport to shrink the wasting of resources.
After x64client and EQ Next I used /framelimiter bgfps / fgfps because I had big trouble with performance output and it has been removed.
Using /framelimiter bgfps 5-10 and /fgfps 30 for gameplay, bgfps 1 for minimum action which are not performance relevant but are necessary for a couple of macros to execute und bgfps 0 for parking toons or the usual mules and buffing stations or macros which have no problem with no window fps.

Advantage: system works with many toons
Disadvantage: mission or raids which are really performance relevant or at the edge of the dps score are nearly impossible to do
Solution: kicking all clients who are not really needed to boost dps (very sad)

To say that: before x64 and MQ Next I had much better overall dps in a raid config that since the changes. And I have to say I updated my whole system out of that reason and even then I need around 2-3 PCs for proper dps scores in raids which needs them. If not configured properly then the dps goes down 1/2 to 1/3 of possible normal output.

Perhaps I should test MQ2FPS and MQ2Viewport again. They didn't worked quite properly short after the changes to x64/Next so I changed and never tested them again.

There are a lot more settings than just bgfps/fgfps. you should check the framelimiter settings window.
 
There are a lot more settings than just bgfps/fgfps. you should check the framelimiter settings window.
This was my main question. I have the MQ setup for framelimiter via sic's video but i am not sure if the EQ one can conflict with MQ or not.

My options in-game eq under the options window are:

-Foreground set @ 120 FPS
-Background set at 60 FPS

I havent changed these as i just noticed these were an option now ingame
 
This was my main question. I have the MQ setup for framelimiter via sic's video but i am not sure if the EQ one can conflict with MQ or not.

My options in-game eq under the options window are:

-Foreground set @ 120 FPS
-Background set at 60 FPS

I havent changed these as i just noticed these were an option now ingame

There is no conflict. And if you play occasionally without MQ2 then you'll want reasonable values in-game. When you have multiple apps limiting frames the most restrictive is going to rule.
 
CPU-Ram:
30 Toons means around 32GB Ram used (worst case, limit)
Swapping should start around 45GB used (dependent on Windows, estimated 70-80% limit).
With 64GB you should be good.
Check your swapping system - if Win11 swaps, you can disable it for testing purposes.
As long as you dont get beyond 35-40+ toons then it should not reach the limit.

Temperature:
If the AMD is getting too hot then he will slow down extremely, so check temperature (the same is true for Intel).
Your GPUs temperature should get a check too:

- Coretemp 1.17
- GPU-Z

The typical throttle area is 75°C to and fro. I am using Intel so I am always good. I rely on watercooling and my gpu/cpu never reaches beyond 75°C even under hot conditions (normally between 30/40-60°C max, depending on rendering/gaming/numbercrunching)
Check your temperature, if beyond 75 then surely you have a problem. Remove dust, check airflow, get additional fans or switch to watercooling.

GPU-Ram
The 3070Ti has 8GB ram. With 30 toons you should be good. With 43 toons, 6GB GPU-Ram is critical, the system likes to swap out and this combination of swapping and bugs in MQNext/64-bit-client makes the system easily freeze and crash.

Software Bugs:
I had freezes all the time since MQNext and Client change to 64bit. There are a couple of bugs which limit system stability if you are going beyond the usual boxing usage. Like some said, EQBC is a catastrophy. I use the V1.3 version because it seems the most stable. But being at the limit of Ram and CPU power (swapping from GPU to NVMe or from CPU-Ram to NVMe costs ENORMOUS Cpu-Power itself!!!!) brings EQBC in a totally unstable configuration. It looses connection, connects erronously with other names and sucks up space. Dannet is much more harmonic with such a config. This is very true at around 30-40 toons, with a whole 54-raid it is utterly cruel. If you use other versions of EQBCS (like the MQNext built in or the older ones), expect utterly cruel effects, worse then even the v1.3-stuff. As long as you are a 6boxer, you will be good. 30 toons, think about that.... Dannet with 54 toons in this config feels like EQBC with around 12-18 toons except EQBC looses toons and Dannet needs a second command because it looses commands. Never be at the limit of GPU-/CPU-Ram or NVMe-Space. The software/EQ/MQ2/ISB cannot handle that properly and need a bit room for their bugs.

Framelimiter:
I used before MQNext MQ2fps. This was a great tool. I could limit every account easily. But it has its flaws because kicking a toon down to around 10-15 frames meant a ultraslow reaction time in a 54-raid-config. The new framelimiter, once got used to, is much better but has his flaws too. You can set them for the background to zero (/dga /framelimiter bgfps 0) and the toons even react with autofollow (/stick) beautifully. Hey Devs: I bow before you for this ingeniuosity, great, thumb up). But.... if you use EQBC then nothing reacts properly except when you once switch the screen so that the commands get active. If they are not reacting or connecting with EQBC then get them active with a window switch to front. But better avoid EQBC. Not everything runs in that way but some stuff dependent on active keys will not work properly. Using "/framelimiter bgfps 1" will safe the day perhaps for 30 toons and such a fast multicore cpu, but my 8/16-core with 54-raid had his problems. I had to up my 64GB ram to 128GB and added an additional NVMe (Samsung 980Pro 2TB) for a faster reaction time and set a swap to a fast SSD because with 6GB GPU-Ram my GPU is completely at the brink of exodus and is using up all the 6GB Ram with 43 toons. I am heading towards a 3090RTX with 24GB to avoid forever this ram bottle neck. 64GB CPU-Ram was too low, Windows starts swapping early and removing the swapping option crashes the whole system due to the limited GPU-Ram.

Plugins:
MQ2mybuttons/buttons is a beautiful plugin but if you are at the limit of the ram then this thing goes haywire. This seems true for a couple of plugins but because I control the whole raid with 9 groups with different buttons, I recognized this plugin as critical if at limit of Ram.

Win11/10/Software/Antivirus/Firewall:
Never tested EQ with that but had a couple of problems with other games. I use Win10 still. No clue why but using Enterprise vs. Pro then I had a couple of strange behaviors with the Enterprise version. But an important thing was: I have an extra SSD with EQ/MQ/ISB ONLY (Win10Pro). Firewall and Antivirus are switched off completely (registry hack!). The same is true for telemetry and updatestuff. I have limited the system to a max so that microsoft does not check or sent any data, neither does updates which would crack the system power into nirvana. I had that in former times. Bill Gates likes to think for other people and force them his will - and its not a good will. I had too much crashes and accidents because of these stupid Updates which kicked even a couple of times my whole system into nirvana. And I HATE Defender. This stupid thing always uses up CPU power and saws in the back on the SSD/NVMe. It feels like a forced vaccination nobody really wants and shows its issues only after a specific time frame. Switch Defender off the hard way (because the stupid updates restart them all the time - this is only a recommendation if you own a hardware firewall which most router have and if you use your system for EQ only). It also recognizes tools analysing the logfiles erronously partly as a virus - stupid, so: "NEVER CHANGE A RUNNING SYSTEM", as long as there is no need for it. Especially if you use 3rd party firewalls or antivirus then this can slow down the whole system more than 30% (perhaps more with GData active in the background). Switch it off, use EQ only if you want a stable system.

EQ:
Far Clip Plane (option in EQ/graphics) should be set down to minimun for toons which are not in direct use. They suck up GPU-/CPU-Ram and power too much. If I have upped my GPU-Ram beyond 8GB then I can say if the GPU was the last really limit or if CPU power is, but I own a 9900-KF and this CPU should be enough even for 54 toons. After upping from 64GB to 128GB then the CPU power went down from around 70-80% to around 40-50%. So swapping is critical. I expect after GPU-Ram pushed up, then the CPU-Power will go down further and I can increase Far Clip Plane again. If you have problems simply set it to zero and set the main control toon to max and the sub-mains to around 10-20. This should reduce cpu consumption additionally.

ISB/Innerspace
If you have problems with stability or interconnectabilty between a couple of PCs then switch back to version 1.16b6336. I had extreme problems in a heavy network traffic with 3 PCs with that release. If you only use one PC then the lastest one should work - but I never tested them again. I switched/tested around 10 releases to and fro and because the latest versions had all the same issue, I gave up and stuck since years on that old version which may have flaws too but at least I can interact between a couple of PCs and if it does not connect from PC to PC then one of the systems can use ISBoxer Toolkit (still #build42) to export to all inner space and that resets and reconnects all PCs - the only solution so far which worked and still works since years - and ... I NEVER WILL CHANGE THIS RUNNING SYSTEM again... :P

AMD
"Get rid of AMD garbage" is a strange sentence and sounds like a believer, not a technician - or a technician stuck in old dogmas. AMD had and has always problems with compatibility. Their drivers are mostly buggy and because everything is first released with Intel optimization (exceptions may outline the rule) I would say too - if somebody wants a stable system then choose Intel. But both have their issues. The one is temperature. Cooling them without fluid cooling is always tricky. A bit too much dust, a bit too much air temperature in the summer and these CPU kiss the holy temperature limit for throttling. AMD additionally should be provided with STABLE drivers. Choose one of the first unstable releases and the whole system will be in vain. That was for decades the reason why I always avoided AMD (besides CPU Power). But with the 39xx and 59xx-line CPU power should not be a limit. I know boxers who even use more than 60 toons with such a config (128GB Ram) and are good and stable even with AMD. Additionally (but that is for Intel and AMD alike) check your Rams. If they exceed the usual timing limits or go beyond the usual recommended speed then you should really know how to tune your bios. Using a Memtest and a Primtest will check your temperature and Ram stability. Especially if there are 4 Ram slots filled then both CPUs will behave sometimes like and insulted spouse.

After a couple of months break, the boxing of older raids was no fun anymore. But with the mentioned ideas I can now control again all toons. I still need a couple of tuneups (GPU Ram, MQ-Plugs) but I am good. Check the ideas, some have been mentioned by others in this thread and you should be good for 30 toons. They are "one-pc-able".


What settings are you running the game in? 30 toons on one PC seems much.


My 8GB of vRAM runs out at 12 toons, 1440P res.
 
Current EQ Setup:

PC1: 11 toons
PC2: 43 toons ->

Current PC2-Setup:

- CPU Intel i-9900KF (activated OC when raiding at 5GHz/8 cores, 4700MHz Cache)
- Nvidia RTX 3090 Ti (Suprim X) with 24GB vRam
- 128GB Ram still @ 2666
- Res. normal: 2 screens 1080p, 1 single partly 4k scaled or windowed, when not in full raid mode
- 1G down / 50M up - fast ping - cable connect
- NVMe (@max PCIe3 only, capable of PCIe4)

Current problems and workarounds:

Loading:
I have to unload a couple of plugins to get proper logins. MQ2Autologin is sometimes very unreliable and when it hangs (due to lag missing the password or due to the usual "validation" problem of the DGB login servers) then the CPU power is sucked dry easily so that the whole system freezes and only a "hard reset" is possible (I assume a bug). Loading all toons is more or less reliable while </framelimiter bgrender off> - sadly it kicks the DPS down and some commands are not executed properly anymore but it is highly useful to get the whole raid logged in (thanks Brainiac).

Playing:
The biggest problem is DPS and lag. It is easily possible to load them up but certain plugins and macros brings the system to a limit and if the configuration is not properly optimized then the DPS is so sub par that it is more useful to 6box with full speed instead doing a raidbox - neatless to say, this is useless for raids. DPS goes down partly to 50% and more if the system is at the limit and options are turned down. This could be different with fully automated toons/bots/KA via plugins, but I still do everything manually with command distribution on ISB/Innerspace/DanNet. (Auto)-Botters will not have that problem in that form.

I now use MQ2Viewport additionally and use partly </framelimiter bgrender off> (<on> for the main 6box group, <off> for additional toons, buff stations, lazy GH toons), depending on the server lags. At certain time frames it is definitely not possible to box properly a raid due to DGBs server lag problems. Even reducing the lags on the own PC and maximum optimization does not change that. Depending on that problem parts of the raid are </framelimiter bgrender off> or all. DPS-raids are then not possible. The only useful thing is dragging the personal buff station and mules with the group and boosting a bit the 6box-group dps for faster kills. Off course it is also useful to open /picks, if the zone is crowded or camps are occupied. Some guys surely were happy seeing my crew in the zone while some perma-farmers occupied camps. It is easy to spawn picks with the raid (at least in latest content). Additionally it was convinient for all who used the "Darklight Caverns"-Mercenary Quests for boosting up the AA to max. Spawning a pick meant having around 300-600AA for a run without the need to kill/pop the spirits so that around 1000AA/1-2hours are easily possible even without raid gear. For the needy it was possible to spawn additional picks. So gratz to everybody who used that "teaser in NoS" from DGB (every year DGB installs a teaser/feature in form of a "bug" - I am meanwhile convinced that this is an intentional economic booster for the sales).

Optimizing - Hardware - Overclocking:
I have now experimented with overclocking my Intel-9900KF. I have only 8 cores/16 threads. They are not always optimal used with maximum efficiency. Kicking them from 3.6 GHz to 5.0 GHz on all cores and optionally kick the cache frequency from 4300 MHz up to 4700 Mhz gave that little amount of CPU power more to at least be able to cope with occasional stuttering or freezes without the need of a hard reset. The system temporarily sucked up 180W in burnin-mode but with watercooling this is not a big problem. I assume somebody with more cores (e.g. AMD multicore beyond 8-10 cores) does the trick better. This normally makes no difference in good optimized software but in this case with many instances of the same software - this does make a difference.

ISB/Innerspace
Tested the latest system. Still the same bugs but now no window to recognize it at loading. Still the same problems with switching from different PCs and different OS. So far for the updates. I switched back to the old version to at least recognize instantly at the start the usual "hangs" and proper connects to the other PC. Perhaps these issues are gone if ALL PC have the same version of Windows or Win11 - but I am still at Win10 E/Pro (at least for EQ).

EQBCS
Meanwhile I removed all communication with EQBC and changed completely to Dannet because if the PC is at the limit then the communication looses commands, does not react when the rendering in the background is limited and regularly is unable to properly connect all toons when a hotbutton broadcasts commands. DNet at least has only rarely disconnect issues. That is the only reason for me to activate EQBC via </framelimiter bgrender off / bgfps 0> because the commands from EQBC are only activated if the screen is in the foreground. I bring then every screen with the shortcuts temporarily to the front, all toons activate in that moment the broadcasted commands and I can </plugin MQ2dannet unload> and reload it. But I only had that issue once so far.

Raid and DPS
At moment I can theoretically move around 54 toons as a raid on 2 PCs. All groups have separate commands for separate actions with a row of additional buttons. But they are DPS-limited. Future expansion will be a 3rd PC (which I had years ago) but with more fire power and then surely with full DPS. Now the RTX4090 is out and the 14900K is announced for this year. If I get a hand on that beauties I will test that too. AMD is no option at moment because of compatibility and optimization for "non-EQ"-software which is more important here. For EQ-only an extremely multicore AMD could be perhaps even better but I cannot test it. All servers here are Intel too. Perhaps I can test it on a 112-core-server (Twin-Xeon) with 192GB Ram and U2-SSDs if that system needs a replacement or second backup server. But that is future expansion and more a bit fun for a bit "Extreme EQing".

Interesting sidenote:
Fresh installation now on Win10Pro - deactivation of all unnecessary tasks per registry (defender, firewall, updates, telemetry, xbox) and still having around 5min from the start data transfered to US servers (glass wire test) for around a couple of minutes without any task showing up as the reason (processmon, Win10 task manager) but overall there is usage of the CPU present. Something still sucks CPU power without permission temporarily. I assume US companies have the duty for a backdoor and MS transfers some compressed data which I still don't have a clue what it is. They are not allowed to do that to US people but Europe seems to be the wild west. Testing everything with a couple of antivirus/antiroot/antiminerkits resulted obviously in a clean system (I checked if some 3rd party tools or EQ have issues but that would have been a real surprise). This issue is present at a collegues server too. Perhaps the MS Insiders "free" Win version, who knows...


Perhaps these 2 cents give more ideas...
Cheers...
 
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What settings are you running the game in? 30 toons on one PC seems much.


My 8GB of vRAM runs out at 12 toons, 1440P res.

Perhaps a remark:

1440p is around 1.8x more vRam consuming than my 1080p-Setup. More data processed, more Ram used, more CPU to GPU data... simply use the factor on all data for a rough estimation.

Rough estimation:
8GB/12 = 666 MB/EQ.
666MB/1.77= ca. 380MB/EQ

Very rough estimation -> fits.
 
Perhaps a remark:

1440p is around 1.8x more vRam consuming than my 1080p-Setup. More data processed, more Ram used, more CPU to GPU data... simply use the factor on all data for a rough estimation.

Rough estimation:
8GB/12 = 666 MB/EQ.
666MB/1.77= ca. 380MB/EQ

Very rough estimation -> fits.

Thanks.

I was thinking of using my laptop for my other 6 toon gang, not a beast laptop but it should be able to handle 6 toons (Laptop i5 10th gen, and a 3050Ti 4GB, 1080P 160hz monitor)

I can't stand to run the game non-native res on my 1440P monitor. I need the sharpness, hehe.
 
Tech - Slow zoning and High CPU useage

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