Discussion - Regarding drop of MQ2 popularity (1 Viewer)

[unknown405]

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I posted this in the admin section of my website, so only a small number of those at NotAddicted will have already seen it. I'll go ahead and start by saying this is very long, obviously just an opinion (though based on facts) and yes I know that another MAJOR reason for the drop of MQ2 popularity is because of a drop in EQ population. I also posted a SOLUTION to both of these 2 major problems I am convinced is the reason for the drop of population and they will be public on my website soon enough.

Reason MQ2 popularity has dropped....
I believe that the two SOLE reasons that the popularity of MQ2 websites, namely NotAddicted and MMOBugs (as they are the oldest), has dropped so much are lack of new cheats/new possibilities and lack of public source code as so much of MQ2's functionality is kept private now.

Lack of new cheats/new possibilities
Other than my sites new and never seen before cheats (which is what caused 95% of it's current active users by the way) when was the last time a new cheat was released that was actually useful? I mean there's new cheats that no one REALLY cares about such as that new MQ2 VIP cheat that shows time in seconds before you will have enough mana to cast a certain spell beside each gem, but nothing that really makes a difference.

"Possibilities have dropped so low in recent years because just about everything that can be done has been done." <---THAT IS NOT TRUE!!!

There is a TON of useful and even powerful cheats that have never been created before because people have just lost the passion to find new cheats, the majority of all sites that look for new powerful cheats are SOLELY looking for a new ND instead of spending their efforts looking for something else. Get this BS out of your head and start spending your time looking for new cheats instead of whining that it's all been done.

As a side note to all the developers out there that have made notable plugins in the last few years during MQ2's population decline don't take this personal. I am not saying that NO useful and appreciated plugins have been made, simply that the number of them has dropped SIGNIFICANTLY with how often they used to come out. I am also adding another side note that the number of notable or powerful plugins being released will never be as high as during MQ2's peak but it can certainly get MUCH higher than it is now.

Lack of public source code
This all started because MQ2 got broken for a month or two (I wasn't playing EQ at the time so I don't remember all the "chaos" that I've heard about.) As a result of this, MQ2 put in a few, easy to break for the most part, precautions against active cheats to prevent powerful cheats like ND from coming back and angering the SoE devs into breaking MQ2 once again and causing a ton of work for the MQ2 devs that they really didn't feel like doing.

The most notable precaution and hardest to fix would obviously be the removal of packet sending, which was the basis for all major active hacks of the age. Once all of these precautions were fixed and a new packet sending was developed by the more developed MQ2 websites, it was all kept 100% locked down and private so that no one but that websites developers could use this information. Meanwhile all of the lesser known and less developed sites that could not fix packet sending died away with the one exception of RedGuides which was on a VERY THIN LINE ready to die.

This was a HUGE impact, much bigger than the other one I mentioned, on the popularity of the MQ2 community. There are two reasons for this.....

First is that there were MANY very talented coders that regularly came out with new powerful hacks but just couldn't crack the new networking code and so they all stopped developing which slowed down MQ2's massive growth, removed many talented coders from the community and many active users because of the lack of new cheats, and crippled the MQ2 communities idea of OPEN SOURCE.

Second is that the opportunity for people to come out with new cheats, cool custom compiles and everything in between was completely torn apart. At this point there are only a choice few with all the compile fixes as well as an efficient and working packet sending/networking code. Regardless of how AMAZING and CREATIVE the developers with access to this code are, it is still nowhere near as efficient as having an entire community of some hundred thousand people with the opportunity to create their own cheats.

Every person, just like every developer, is unique in their own way and has their own specialties and specific talents / ideas. There is no doubt in my mind that if the entire MQ2 community had access to the updated MQ2 core then there would be a proficient amount of new plugins coming out, major upgrades in MQ2 functionality, huge improvements in all different aspects of the MQ2 source and a significant increase in active members.

Please answer the poll....
Please, for all those people out there that remember the old community and want it back, answer the poll and post a reply of whether you agree or what YOU think the reason is for the decline of the MQ2 community. I already have a solution to the two problems I posted and they will be available for all on my website as soon as I can get it ready.

I believe the solutions that I have come up with will effectively patch up these two issues I just discussed 100% while upsetting as few people as possible, though I obviously can't make everyone happy. By answering the thread and posting a reply with how you think the MQ2 community can be fixed you will give me an idea of what aspects of this issue I need to prioritize as well as getting the more important issues resolved first to hasten the recovery of this declining community.

Thanks for reading and leave your comments,

-UnKnoWn405 / Corruption

 

[VillageIdiot]

A big problem from what i've seen was people using these "leet" hacks to profit from them. The originals who made these "leet" hacks stopped giving them out when they saw you much money others were making from there hard work. Now everyone wants there piece of the pie for the goods, even if the goods are someone elses.


Greed overpowers sharing. It's how the world turns.

The other problem is that stupid people get ahold of "Leet" hacks and abuse the shit out of them, so SOE has to fix them or the entire EQ community throws a fit. I totally understand why SOE does this and intern why dev's don't release "Leet" hacks much anymore. I heard this phrase awhile ago, back when i was first looking for the original MB and back then i thought whatever, but now i totally understand. "It's like giving a loaded handgun to an infant"

 

[unknown405]

I completely agree with you regarding your opinion of hacks such as GK, despite the fact that I offer GK on my website I am with you 100% on that VillageIdiot. I don't believe that hacks as powerful as ND should ever be released again and I promise you when the last Elite Subscriptions runs out at my sight then it will be removed. However, I really don't think that it had too much to do with the declining MQ2 community, as a matter of fact I think the opposite.

The whole ND/GK scene may have pissed of a lot of people but I can't recall anyone that actually dropped out of the MQ2 scene based solely for that purpose. What I can recall however, is the ever growing (to this day) curiousity about MB/GK/ND. There are actually several people today that are a member of the MQ2 community based simply on the fact that they heard about ND, found these MQ2 websites, tried it out, enjoyed it and have continued to be a part of the community even after it was nerfed.

Though I do value everyones opinion in this because I am working, not alone I'm sure, on fixing the falling community, I don't believe that what you wrote had anything to do with why the MQ2 community fell but more a matter of an opportunity to let your feelings on GK out. I may be wrong and you truely believe that's why the community failed, but as most long time members that have been around for years will tell you, that's not much of a factor to consider as the amount of users that joined the MQ2 community out of curiousity greatly outweighs the amount that left out of frustration. Obviously I'm not basing this on any actual statistics or anything, but just from personal experience, people I have met, posts in the community and general knowledge, that's what I've come to gather.

 

[Czarman]

Honestly I think it would be a good idea to just post the source, but at the authors discretion. I think it was April 20, 2007 when we first got CobFuscator'd by EQ. Pretty much about the time I quit for the 2nd time. While I had access to the source, I respected the authors request to keep it private (I am Wickedmofo on MMobugs).

Around the time Shared Bank was still working, stuff like Ghost Killing was maybe in the hands of very very few. As things disappeared more and more, like Shared Bank getting nerfed, things that were more "Elite" (i.e. GK) got push to the mainstream because what else was there? (Like you said).

This in essence pushed a spot-light on MQ in my opinion that ruined it for every else that didn't use active hacks. Heck if you played a monk you were on the radar, whether you cheated or not. Then we got ND, and it was more like a flood-light then a spot-light. Soon you would enter any zone, say for instance MPG and see someone right at the zone-in killing the whole zone. It really was out of hand.

Some things should be more open, others I would have to say should be more for people that have contributed more (by that I mean those that have either donated more time or money to the community). Is MQ Dead? No, but EQ without MQ, forget it. I think the features it has to offer are great. The more you keep publishing and selling these cheats to the masses the more you can expect crack downs, and tighter rules (more packets, etc) put upon us in the future.

There definitely is room for more plugins. I was of the same mind set myself a few years ago, trying just about anything I could think of ....most being stuff that was server side, but heck I tried. Would be willing to help get things back on track (or whatever you want to call it). While I am by no means a programmer, I am a hacker at heart. Am looking at going back to school/college to get a degree in Computer Sci or Computer Info Tech, or something -- hope MQ is still around for me to practice on :P

 

[Siddin]

I do think the community can be rebuilt, but not only will it take effort from the community itself, but also from Sony. Sony needs to do a full overhaul of eq. It takes up too much processing power, memory, etc. I can run 6 sessions of eq on my computer but I can usually run anywhere from 12+ of most other newer mmo's.
Gameplay needs to be more user friendly, too many zones and not enough people to populate them, etc. Basically they have to actually compete with other mmo's out there rather than just working to keep what people they do have right now.

 

[Alatyami]

I agreed with Siddin.

It is my belief what is truly killing the MQ2 community is the closed sourced plugins and greed. I can understand subscribing to a site for a pre-compile but to sell plugins at $200+ is ridiculous.

Closed source compiles/plugins restricts those that want to learn the more advanced hacks. The decline in creativeness is because those who are true to compiling didn't teach others to be creative. I had a lot of mentors when I first started, and I also had a lot of advanced plugins to learn from.

I think that there is still some hope, but it will take those that are greedy and "closed" minded to lift the iron curtains.

-alatyami

 

[chance98]

to be honest i never new mq2 was in that much trouble... i know i am new to the seen and really still trying to learn alot.... but i just thought there was less eqplayers thus less mq2 users... as for eq they so need to stop the yearly level increases... they need to only do level increases every other year... and just ad new fresh content to its current levels

 

[unknown405]

Well you're new to the community so you don't quite understand how huge the MQ2 community used to be. As we all know there is an EQ community and an MQ2 community, they are two separate communities even if they are intertwined and obviously there are those that belong to both. The big MQ2 sites such as this one (back when it was RedGuides) used to get TONS and TONS of fresh new posts every single day along with new and revolutionary plugins coming out frequently.

There were new exploits that were released all the time and if you requested a macro or a plugin it would get done within 24 hours at the latest 99% of the time. I could go on with how much better it was like this but my point is that the MQ2 community was VAST, it was quite as active as the EQ community really. For those that were around during this time, we all know that the community we know and love is definitely worth fighting for and rebuilding before it completely crashes down.

As far as powerful hacks not being released, I completely agree with that as I said earlier. Plugins such as ND don't necessarily hurt the MQ2 community (causes drama at worst) but rather it hurts the EQ community. The problem with this is that when the EQ community gets hurt then in the long run that's not going to be good for the MQ2 community, therefor cheats THAT powerful should not be released.

However, I definitely believe in active hacking and I feel that without hacks such as warp, zone, /sumcorpse and all those other little active hacks that make the game a whole lot less of a hassle and gives you more time to actually have fun. You just have to know where to draw the limit and I think normal delay GK is the limit for DISCUSSION while the realm of "no delay" hacks such as MB are far past the line.

I actually have 3 different versions of a zone crash plugin, all work very differently but efficient and 100% of the time. Along with other hacks such as this that I have created over time, I have locked these up tight and they will never be released nor used for any reason. I actually came out with a SERVER crash plugin as well, I used it twice and only because I wanted to know for sure if it worked or if it was a fluke. After that, I never released it to a single soul anywhere.

Now I am very much aware that the EQ community has drastically dropped in recent years (seems it's going down faster every year too.) I know that the MQ2 community will NEVER be as large as it was several years ago but I very much believe it can be rebuilt to at LEAST twice what it is now. I am not saying that my solution to these problems WILL fix everything, I will let you know what I am hoping is going to happen...

I am hoping that once I release my solution to these two problems the MQ2 community will grow large enough to rebuild itself back to it's peak. Obviously I know that there are more problems with the community than a simple change from open to closed source, but the vast majority of those problems lies in the community itself being inactive and not making posts and getting involved (I'm sure everyone agrees with me there.)

So I am hoping that by fixing these two problems, enough people will become active once again that they will draw several more people which in turn will draw even more people who in turn will draw even more people and so on until the MQ2 community eventually rebuilds itself to it's peak once again.

 

[nyghteyes]

I believe there is still a large % of people playing EQ that dont even know MQ2 exists.

But how do you recruit commonsense players without advertising to the whole world and getting 5 bozos that bring attention to active hacking for every 1 commonsense player? But I guess thats always been part of the deal.

As far as source goes I fully agree that opening source up at the authors discretion on alot of things would spark a fire under alot of devs asses to WANT to find more hacks. Or atleast come back to the game to WANT to help with feedback/testing.

 

[everdead]

I think the biggest reason for a decline in MQ2 users is because many people were using mq2 as their last resort before kicking the habbit. Personally I had almost all my friends quit eq and so I started soloing. Then content got harder and harder and i started taking more and more account until I was playing 12 accounts and decided that using mq2 was better then trying to keep up that many players by myself.

The issue with mq is people who were making the plugins and macros were getting exploited by people wanting to make a buck. I admit that I used to make 2-3k a month playing eq and was using mq2 but I was never using active hacks to do the work it was my self grinding gear out in qvic and some skilled bard work.

I then started working on more hacks with some friends i made through them catching onto my work and then we started dabbling in some fun stuff that got us in some heat. (Trying to jump the cant cast while divine aura is running and casting through walls for some feratha fun) Then our accounts got banned and I didn't feel like paying up for some mroe accounts at 45 bucks to get everything and they started banning by credit card instead of just by the account.

Anyway I would only come back to eq now to play a single account and wouldn't need mq2 to keep my necro running while I talked to what few friends from my guild I was officer in still play.

 

[kmccue200]

Unknown, you sit here and talk about people sharing code and getting the community back up and running and you charge $275 for the leet hacks you talk about, $75 just to join.

Thanks not helping us, thats advertising your webpage on ours.

 

[unknown405]

Unknown, you sit here and talk about people sharing code and getting the community back up and running and you charge $275 for the leet hacks you talk about, $75 just to join.

Thanks not helping us, thats advertising your webpage on ours.

Perhaps you should investigate an accusation like that at least a little bit before throwing lies out there. I believe I have the cheapest subscriptions that exist right now, it is a mere $7.95 to become a premium member. Then it is $34.95 for an elite subscription and $200 for lifetime. Premium has every single plugin that NA or MMOBugs has, give or take a couple and I have full permission from EVERY SINGLE AUTHOR to use plugins I did not create.

Elite subscription is EXTREMELY cheap, considering it is only $34.95 for GK when MMOPlugins charges hundreds and then hundreds more when they release a new version, on top of the fact that it is so much more sloppily put together and badly coded than mine. They take all my ideas, including using an INI file to change your GK settings. All of my original ideas that no other person has come out with yet, MMOPlugins steals and charges a fortune for.

Lifetime may be expensive but your not simply paying for a lifetime of access (actually as long as the website is around to throw in a little legal notice) but you're getting top notch coding support on any problems you might encounter. There are also tutorials and all new, very cool plugins go into lifetime for testing and may never leave lifetime.

If you are even somewhat active on this website or involved in the MQ2 community then you're already very much aware of how badly my reputation has been tainted, all due to lies. You are also very aware of how much I despise this and how, through all of this libel that has been thrown my away, I have at least maintained the self respect to not do the same to others. If I am going to say anything bad about a person, or even an organization, then I will have 100% facts in my post. I will not hear something from someone, never look into it, and post it for the world to see as you have just done.

You don't know me, you have obviously never even opened my website up in your browser (seeing as how I have the lowest prices and your accusing me of charging a fortune.) So I ask that a MOD please delete that post because God knows I don't need my reputation tainted any further due to complete lies from someone who has absolutely no clue what he is talking about. Also, just for the record, my prices have been like that for a LONG time so don't go and post that I just changed them because that is another ludicrous lie.

Now I would like to address the issue you brought up about advertising my website on this website. Please use "CTRL+F" and try to find EITHER of my 2 domain names anywhere at all in this thread. I have not advertised a single time, so I really don't even know where that came from. I have said that I am going to put this stuff up on my website, but when did I once say what my website name was? Regardless, I have permission to post my website name on these forums but I have simply chosen not to.

Last issue to bring up would be not helping "us", assuming you're talking about the MQ2 community. I am working on helping the MQ2 community very hard, if you can't see that then my only explanation is that you have heard some of the numerous lies about me and it has blinded you from the truth, which is I really am working to help the community as a whole and yes, that even includes MMOBugs even though I do dislike certain people from there.

I never said once in this thread that I already had a fix, I said I was working on fixing these issues and wanted the communities opinion on what they think will also help so that I could possibly incorporate them into the final product that will hopefully give a boost to the MQ2 community. If you don't want to help or you think I'm just doing it for the money then you are entitled to your opinion but, again, please don't spread around rumours and lies such as these when all I am trying to do is help.

However, if you are talking about "us" as in the NA community then clearly you haven't spent too much time here. I actually just looked and I see your join date is Nov 2008, so let me fill you in. I have been helping the NA community since it was Redguides and for a very long time. I have posted numerous plugins in macros for both live and emulated EQ servers not charging a dime for my work. I have posted everything from updated tradeskill macros (brew to 300 for example) to packet plugins on live (trade from anywhere in zone for example) to broken extremely powerful plugins (dupe plugin with SEVERAL different methods of duping on EQEmu for example.) Look below for a small list of what I have done for this community and then tell me that I am not helping you...

MQ2ocFarTrade - Trade with your target from anywhere in zone
VC 6.0 Fix on MQ2 Source - Fixed compile errors for VC6 users
Improved MQ2NoEncumber - Towards bottom
Shards of Dalaya HUGE update - Read post for details
MQ2DoCrackUpdater - Used by NotAddicted and MMOBugs, made by me and selflessly shared with other sites
Adding packets to your source - Removed at zips request
MQ2OffsetUpdater - Just for fun, update offsets while in game VIA my plugin
MQ2iMem - Instant memorize plugin (was long time ago, 90% sure I sent source to JMO)
MQ2uDupe - Several duping techniques on EQEmulator
MQ2uZone - Zone plugin for Shards of Dalaya
MQ2EmulatorLib - Very nice plugin (C++) library for EQEmulator
MQ2uForceDuel - Force duel plugin for EQ Live
MQ2SetGrav - Nothing new, but NA didn't have a SetGrav plugin

Do I really need to go on? Anyone that's been at this site for longer than a month, and I apologize if that sounds rude to you but it's true, knows how much I have put in this site and how little (nothing actually) I have asked for or received in return. So please don't come here pretending you know who I am and spreading libel. I believe this post, as long as it is, accurately and succesfully proves every single one of your accusations wrong.

 

[brainiac]

TL;DR

The MQ2 Community has always been a niche. The vast majority of users visiting the site are there only to receive a service and not to actively participate in it.

The users that actively contribute are in the minority. If you open up a website expecting to have your users do all the work and contribute all of their efforts then you are in trouble.

It has always been like this and will never change. The MQ2 community is still thriving like it always has. Activity may seem to have diminished over time because the things that bring the users back get ironed out to the point continually returning is no longer necessary.

Sure, new exploits will draw people in, but the discoverable, maintainable exploits has long since plateaued. Any new exploits are merely bugs that have an easy fix (as opposed to a design flaw which is not easily fixed nor worth the developers time to fix).

Macros only need to be written once. There reaches a point where development becomes stable, things because mainstream and participation simply no longer becomes necessary for a project to persist. It happens all the time in open source projects.

I won't even get into the profiteering aspect which you so sorely screwed everybody on.

Don't feel like writing any more.

edit: last I checked the project is still open source so I'm not sure what your beef is.