Question - Need to toss some ideas around about activating Rogue discs with holies.

[deziel]

So because of the unique way that rogue's do dps, I've come to the conclusion that the best way to get their disc lineup right w/o tabbing over and activating them all manually, is gonna be through holyshits. Now, when I look at holyshits, I feel like I can kinda/sorta understand them.. kinda. Now, I've looked at the /commands on the mq2 wiki. And I just want to try to come up with a simple way to get the discs firing in the correct order. To simplify rogue dps a bit, lets just say I want to activate Twisted Chance> Frenzied Stabbing> Executioner's> Knifeplay> Razor's Edge> and then Arcwork, finally back to Twisted Chance. Basically before I end up investing quite a bit of my time into tinkering with this, (although I'm sure I'd enjoy it some of the time) I just wanna know if holies are the way to go to for this. Forgive my ignorance when it comes to holies, and downshits; I've just always found a way to do most of the things I needed out of my toons with Kissassist. Thanks in advance guys, and I seriously appreciate any feedback/opinions.

Chad

 

[Zeeeeeee]

Thats nice since my rogue cant dps very well...i will keep an eye on this thread

 

[toots]

Do you normally run through these dps discs with a multibind? Or are the refresh times on the discs to quick to work on a multibind?

 

[deziel]

The way rogue's have to disc to reach their highest dps, is a bit different than the other two pure melee classes. The way that I used to do it (no longer play rogue too often) while boxing was to constantly be tabbing. Some of their more potent discs last 30sec, but they also have a weaker disc that goes for 3 minutes. But their entire cycle of discs refreshes every 10 minutes. My goal is to have a KA, and a mq2melee file that can scale back that tabbing to once every 10 minutes, or only when a named or some other burn situation arises. My zerker KA, and mq2melee settings mesh so well together, the only time I have to tab over is to hit one key to activate full burn when I get overzealous on SK, or when a named spawns. And even though I'm never on the screen he still averages from 120k-140k dps for every night's fighting. This is with 100% group gear and not max AA. I know comparing zerkers to rogues right now seems like apples to oranges, but its really not. Rogue's have the tools to be in the same ballpark. Equally played, the zerker will almost always do more damage, but rogue's can edge out zerkers on single target events, or events where the time of the fight allows the rogue to burn twice, but the zerker only once
So ultimately that is what I'm hoping to accomplish by activating the discs via holyshits. The only other way I can see doing them is via the dps section of KA file. Which I think would be very inefficient. I could be wrong, but I think with all the discs/AA/abilties rogues need to constantly spam, as well as adding the entire rogue disc rotation into KA dps section.... I just see it working poorly, or in the wrong order. Please lmk what some of you holyshit/downshit pros think about the viability of being able to do this through mq2melee. Thanks again

 

[toots]

Should be doable. Just put a check on each disc that checks for the buff from the last disc.

 

[Eltai86]

Look for a holy list that William did for zerkers awhile back. Pretty sure the premise for what you are wanting to do is all setup in the holys there.

 

[deziel]

Unless it was quite some time ago, I don't think it will help. You see Zerkers have one discs they use, it lasts 3 minutes, and it has a cooldown of 3 minutes. Therefore it can be "spammed" with no consequence. And of their Burns are AAs and there's no CA timer issues, or stacking issues (besides Frenzied Resolve, but in order to activate that disc you'd have to either A) burn at the start of the fight, B) get extremely lucky and just have disconcerting wear off just as you're needing to burn, or C) wait around for an undertermined amount of time w/o disconcerting going, as Frenzied Resolve needs a clear CA timer, but it doesn't take up combat window). If the mq2 file is from before that, it could still help to see what kind of language he used in it. Actually, I think that would help a bit, its not exactly the same situation, but I think there's a bit to be learned from that. Thanks a bunch

 

[Eltai86]

In short, what you need to do is build a list of holys that build sequentially


I.e.
Holy1=if condition x and disc 1 ready /do disc 1
Holy2=if condition x and disc 1 not ready and disc 2 ready /do disc 2
Holy3=if condition x and disc 1 not ready and disc 2 not ready and disc 3 ready /do disc 3

 

[JackDaniels]

i fully admit not being normal, but i found that on characters i needed more control and input over ( IE my cleric, i have never found a healing addon that works anywhere near as good as i want) that i spent a little bit of time and just made some EQBCA hotkeys for that toon on my control toon.

So you could be on your tank, pull a named or whatever and just simply hit a hot button that sends a tell to your rogue and makes him press whatever discs you set up. You can also a timer depress on those keys so you can also easily see whats up and down all without ever leaving your main char screen.

Once i figured out how that eqbc program worked it completely changed the way i play the game and use macros.

 

[Eltai86]

If you only want them to fire when kiss assist is going add ${Macro.Name.Equal[kissassist.mac]} to the list of statements required. You should just need to update Disc1, Disc2, Disc3 etc to the proper disc names (Please reshare once you do), let me know how you go.

holyshit1=/if (${Me.PctEndurance}>=5 && ${Me.CombatAbilityReady[${Spell[Disc1].RankName}]} && ${Me.Combat} && ${Target.PctHPs}<99 && !${Melee.DiscID}) /disc ${Spell[Disc1].RankName}

holyshit2=/if (${Me.PctEndurance}>=5 && !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[${Spell[Disc1].RankName}]}&&  ${Me.CombatAbilityReady[${Spell[Disc2].RankName}]} && ${Me.Combat} && ${Target.PctHPs}<99 && !${Melee.DiscID}) /disc ${Spell[Disc2].RankName}

holyshit3=/if (${Me.PctEndurance}>=5 && !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[${Spell[Disc1].RankName}]}&&  !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[${Spell[Disc2].RankName}]} && ${Me.CombatAbilityReady[${Spell[Disc3].RankName}]}&& ${Me.Combat} && ${Target.PctHPs}<99 && !${Melee.DiscID}) /disc ${Spell[Disc3].RankName}

holyshit4=/if (${Me.PctEndurance}>=5 && !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[${Spell[Disc1].RankName}]} &&  !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[${Spell[Disc2].RankName}]} &&  !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[${Spell[Disc3].RankName}]} && ${Me.CombatAbilityReady[${Spell[Disc4].RankName}]}&& ${Me.Combat} && ${Target.PctHPs}<99 && !${Melee.DiscID}) /disc ${Spell[Disc4].RankName}

holyshit5=/if (${Me.PctEndurance}>=5 && !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[${Spell[Disc1].RankName}]} &&  !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[${Spell[Disc2].RankName}]} &&  !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[${Spell[Disc3].RankName}]} && !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[${Spell[Disc4].RankName}]} && ${Me.CombatAbilityReady[${Spell[Disc5].RankName}]}&& ${Me.Combat} && ${Target.PctHPs}<99 && !${Melee.DiscID}) /disc ${Spell[Disc5].RankName}

holyshit6=/if (${Me.PctEndurance}>=5 && !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[${Spell[Disc1].RankName}]} &&  !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[${Spell[Disc2].RankName}]} &&  !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[${Spell[Disc3].RankName}]} && !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[${Spell[Disc4].RankName}]} && !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[${Spell[Disc5].RankName}]}&& !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[${Spell[Disc6].RankName}]}&&  ${Me.Combat} && ${Target.PctHPs}<99 && !${Melee.DiscID}) /disc ${Spell[Disc6].RankName}

 

[deziel]

Okay, I have have a partial part of the file I did up, with Eltai giving me some seriously inspiration to get this done. I want to share this snipit to see if I'm on the right track, or not, As well as try to gain a bit more incite as to how I can define that variables in the disc rotation in the simplest way possible.

[MQ2Melee]
assassinate=1
Barrage=1
backstab=1
bleed=20
disarm=1
Disorientation=1
enrage=1
escape=50
evade=0
facing=0
Hack=1
hidden=1
infuriate=1
jugular=20
melee=1
pickpocket=1
pinpoint=20
plugin=1
rake=20
resume=75
slam=1
stickbreak=1
stickrange=0
thiefeye=1
twistedshank=1
vigdagger=20
holyflag0=1
holyflag1=1

holyshit0=/if (${Me.CombatAbilityReady[${Spell[Thief's Eyes].RankName}]} && ${Me.PctEndurance}>=5 && ${Target.PctHPs}>1 && !${Me.Song[Thief's Eyes Rk. II].ID}) /Disc ${Spell[Thief's Eyes].RankName}

holyshit1=/if ${Macro.Name.Equal[kissassist.mac]}(${Me.PctEndurance}>=5 && ${Me.CombatAbilityReady[${Spell[Twisted Chance Discipline].RankName}]} && ${Me.AltAbilityReady[Rogue's Fury]} && ${Me.Combat} && ${Target.PctHPs}<99 && !${Melee.DiscID}) /multiline ; /alt activate 3514 ; /delay 5 ; /disc ${Spell[Twisted Chance Discipline].RankName}

As you can see I THINK I've just activated 2 of the 5 AAs /discs that compromise the initial burn. After I get Dicho, spire, and rake's rampage, activated, everything else is just as straight forward as activating the next discipline when the previous one ends. Now, my questions are, is it okay to be activating two components of the rotation in one holy? And if that's okay, would it then be safe to assume that I could activate the remaining 3 tools collected together in the next holy? I would consider myself fairly ignorant in this area, although I do have a large amount of game knowledge, so hopefully that will help as I dive further still into this exciting little challenge. Any feedback will be welcome, and appreciated.

Chad

 

[Akatora]

ill tell you right now mq2melee covers thiefs eye already

 

[timmy]

i use knifeplay last because it has stacking issues with rogue's fury. i'm sure there is a way to use it more efficiently. i stole this order from the internet somewhere. i'm not a prorog. i don't afk so i always try to pull 3 or more. i rarely if ever get to knifeplay before frenzied is up again and basically my rog is always under disc.

holyshit14=/if ((${Me.XTarget} > 2 || ${Target.Named}) && (${Me.AltAbilityReady[Rogue's Fury]})) /alt activate 3514

holyshit15=/if ((${Me.XTarget} > 2 || ${Melee.DiscID} > 0 || ${Target.Named}) && (${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Frenzied Stabbing Discipline]} && ${Target.PctHPs} < 98)) /disc Frenzied Stabbing Discipline

holyshit16=/if ((${Me.XTarget} > 2 || ${Melee.DiscID} > 0 || ${Target.Named}) && (!${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Frenzied Stabbing Discipline]} && ${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Twisted Chance Discipline]} && ${Target.PctHPs} < 98)) /disc Twisted Chance Discipline

holyshit17=/if ((${Me.XTarget} > 2 || ${Melee.DiscID} > 0 || ${Target.Named}) && (!${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Frenzied Stabbing Discipline]} && !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Twisted Chance Discipline]} && ${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Executioner Discipline Rk. II]} && ${Target.PctHPs} < 98)) /disc Executioner Discipline Rk. II

holyshit18=/if ((${Me.XTarget} > 2 || ${Melee.DiscID} > 0 || ${Target.Named}) && (!${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Frenzied Stabbing Discipline]} && !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Twisted Chance Discipline]} && !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Executioner Discipline Rk. II]} && ${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Razor's Edge Discipline Rk. II]} && ${Target.PctHPs} < 98)) /disc Razor's Edge Discipline Rk. II

holyshit19=/if ((${Me.XTarget} > 2 || ${Melee.DiscID} > 0 || ${Target.Named}) && (!${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Frenzied Stabbing Discipline]} && !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Twisted Chance Discipline]} && !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Executioner Discipline Rk. II]} && !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Razor's Edge Discipline Rk. II]} && ${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Arcwork Discipline Rk. II]} && ${Target.PctHPs} < 98)) /disc Arcwork Discipline Rk. II

holyshit20=/if ((${Me.XTarget} > 2 || ${Melee.DiscID} > 0 || ${Target.Named}) && (!${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Frenzied Stabbing Discipline]} && !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Twisted Chance Discipline]} && !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Executioner Discipline Rk. II]} && !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Razor's Edge Discipline Rk. II]} && !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Arcwork Discipline Rk. II]} && ${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Knifeplay Discipline Rk. III]} && !${Me.Song[Rogue's Fury XV].ID} && ${Target.PctHPs} < 98)) /disc Knifeplay Discipline Rk. III

 

[Eltai86]

What sort of gear level, aa and dps are you getting out of your rogue?

 

[Meistro]

I dont run a rogue, but I do play with a lot of holies. My question is what sequence and timing are you looking for. What are the "casting times" of the discs/AA's you are firing off.

For example need to know type info

Start of fight I want to activate disc/AA 1 (instant) and disc/AA 2 (casting time 1.5 sec).
When disc 2 drops I want to activate disc/AA 3 (Instant)
When disc one drops I want to activate disc/AA 4(Instant), and disc/AA 5 (Casting time .5 sec)
and so on till you've gone your list of discs and abilities.
And with each would need to note if it puts a buff in your buff window, song window or uses your combat ability timer.

With that information one can start to come up with a set of conditions and holies that will work for durations.

For burns, I'd just list them in the BURN section of KA, or make a 2nd set of holies to accommodate if target is a named then fire all of these....and when this and this drop fire these...

I'd look into this more for you but my rogues are heroic 85's so I really haven't played them to test anything, only have the heroic granted AA, and with my schedule I really don't have the time to work with it.

 

[timmy]

What sort of gear level, aa and dps are you getting out of your rogue?

tbm raid weapons and the rest is eok group gear. no augs other than slot 5 dex. not max aa but the majority of the dps aa done. 100k sustained over hours. only fighting white or yellow cons so no assassination procs.

 

[ihc385]

These were done by bruce_lee but I think it might be what your looking for...or easy to modify so you dont have to start from scratch:

downshit1=/if (${Me.PctEndurance}<21 && ${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Breather]} && ${Me.Endurance}>25 && !${Me.CombatState.Equal[COMBAT]} && ${Melee.DiscID}==0 && !${Me.Invis} && !${Select[${Zone.ShortName},guildlobby,poknowledge,potranquility,guildhall,guildhalllrg_int,guildhallsml_int,nexus,neighborhood]}) /disc Breather
holyshit1=/if ((${Target.Named} || ${Me.XTarget}>3) && ${Me.ActiveDisc.Name.Equal[Knifeplay Discipline Rk. II]}) /stopdisc
holyshit2=/if (${Me.AltAbilityReady[Fundament: Third Spire of the Rake]} && !${Me.ActiveDisc.Name.Equal[Knifeplay Discipline Rk. II]} && ${Melee.DiscID}) /alt act 1412
holyshit3=/if (${SpawnCount[npc radius 30 zradius 10]}<2 && ${Target.Named} && ${Me.AltAbilityReady[Rake's Rampage]}) /alt act 829
holyshit4=/if (${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Frenzied Stabbing Discipline]} && !${Melee.DiscID} && (${Target.Named} || ${Me.XTarget}>3) && ${Target.PctHPs}<98) /disc Frenzied Stabbing Discipline
holyshit5=/if (${Me.AltAbilityReady[Rogue's Fury]} && (${Me.ActiveDisc.Name.Equal[Frenzied Stabbing Discipline]} || ${Me.ActiveDisc.Name.Equal[Twisted Chance Discipline]}) && (${Target.Named} || ${Me.XTarget}>3) && ${Target.PctHPs}<98) /alt act 3514
holyshit6=/if (${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Twisted Chance Discipline]} && !${Melee.DiscID} && (${Target.Named} || ${Me.XTarget}>3) && ${Target.PctHPs}<98) /disc Twisted Chance Discipline
holyshit7=/if (${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Executioner Discipline]} && !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Frenzied Stabbing Discipline]} && !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Twisted Chance Discipline]} && !${Melee.DiscID} && (${Target.Named} || ${Me.XTarget}>3) && ${Target.PctHPs}<98) /disc Executioner Discipline
holyshit8=/if (${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Razor's Edge Discipline Rk. II]} && !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Frenzied Stabbing Discipline]} && !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Twisted Chance Discipline]} && !${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Executioner Discipline]} && !${Melee.DiscID} && (${Target.Named} || ${Me.XTarget}>3) && ${Target.PctHPs}<98) /disc Razor's Edge Discipline Rk. II

 

[deziel]

I hate to tell ya, but you're missing out on a lot waiting till last to click Knifeplay. Firstly, rogue's fury will be long finished by the time Twisted Chance, Frenzied Stabbing, and Executioners discs are completed, hell most of the time if you're on the ball, it will be finished after the two biggies (TC/FS). Also if you try firing Knifeplay whilest Rogue's Fury is still active.... it won't discontinue RF, it just won't like you hit Knifeplay (unless they changed something VERY recently). Also after the big burn is outta the way and Executioner's is fading, that is usually when shaman epic, our epic, and piercing marks are up, giving you a very strong mini burn, that will rival what other melee dpsers are doing at this point in the fight. Just something to think about. Also I haven't forgot and should have a complete KA, and mq2melee file that work together here within a week or so. Big ups to Ac1d here for letting me use his rogue in game for testing, much appreciated sir!