Discussion - Mob type changes!

[Turaj Steelfist]

So am I the only one completely frustrated by the mob type changes? I can't get my crew through KV without having to kill a path now and I am not geared like Sic so it takes me about 30 mins to get through the zone. I know someone is going to say "just make a wiz/dru and port past it. Well making and leveling one to 116 takes a little longer than the 30 minutes to kill my way through. Anyone have any real suggestions to deal with this new system?

 

[Knightly]

Make a graph of how many times you have to run through multiplied by 30 and THEN compare it to making a port class.

I use bard most of the time, but I also have a mage for travel purposes.

What's funny to me about the mob type changes is there's no legal in-game way to know what a mob's type is without casting a spell on them so the standardization doesn't give anyone any extra info (and there are still mobs that look like they should be one category totally based on the description of those categories...but aren't).

 

[Hopeless]

So am I the only one completely frustrated by the mob type changes? I can't get my crew through KV without having to kill a path now and I am not geared like Sic so it takes me about 30 mins to get through the zone. I know someone is going to say "just make a wiz/dru and port past it. Well making and leveling one to 116 takes a little longer than the 30 minutes to kill my way through. Anyone have any real suggestions to deal with this new system?

You are not alone.. After this patch, there are see invis mobs in the zone. I have to race with them get to the zone line.

 

[Turaj Steelfist]

My graph already shows the need for a porter, but my stubbornness to leveling one is winning.

 

[Sic]

So am I the only one completely frustrated by the mob type changes? I can't get my crew through KV without having to kill a path now and I am not geared like Sic so it takes me about 30 mins to get through the zone. I know someone is going to say "just make a wiz/dru and port past it. Well making and leveling one to 116 takes a little longer than the 30 minutes to kill my way through. Anyone have any real suggestions to deal with this new system?

fortunately dbg is taking notice of it and hopefully making the proper adjustments

 

[bwood42]

It's definitely stupid. I thought I was just having a weird invis break, or someone charmed something and cast see invis on it... I for some reason didn't suspect DPG of this. Shame on me.

 

[Mikey02]

The nice thing is, if you camp Near Shadow Valley, u get free pulls. The zone is also devoid of 24/7 groups now.

 

[Sifter228]

Lower level, much lower level game play is screwed in some zones due to this change. If this post helps DP I'll feel bad. I'm not doing QA for these asses anymore.

 

[Mikey02]

You realize that they’re touching almost 3 decades worth of coding? During a time where standard practice and documentation hardly exist. I am surprised it didn’t break more than it did.

Them going back and rehashing with old problems gives me hope. It means they care about future improvement and its better than being in maintenance mode.

 

[Sifter228]

You realize that they’re touching almost 3 decades worth of coding? During a time where standard practice and documentation hardly exist. I am surprised it didn’t break more than it did.

Them going back and rehashing with old problems gives me hope. It means they care about future improvement and its better than being in maintenance mode.

Nothing was broken as far as anyone could tell. At least in regards to mob types.

You're right though. They are changing 2 decades of code for no reason as far as anyone could tell.

 

[Mikey02]

Things rarely get adjusted for no reason. Putting uniformity on mob type will allow them easy implementation in the future. I don't have an old list but if they managed to reduce the amount of mob type in game, that will reduce memory usage. Old code is often revisited and refactored for the sake of efficiency.

Just now they're implementing markers for system run time analysis, and I imagine organizing the code for mob types for thousands of mobs across Norrath is for the sake of efficiency. This is my opinion and I have no hard fact to back it up.

 

[Knightly]

I don’t think it will reduce memory. It will reduce complexity and drops everything down to singular types. And you’re right, it makes it easier to design around in the future…but also, it gives them a chance to make it consistent. Now there are clear rules for what is what. (Like how some vampires were undead but most vampires were not)

I think it will be a long while before that consistency is reached though.

 

[jande]

So am I the only one completely frustrated by the mob type changes? I can't get my crew through KV without having to kill a path now and I am not geared like Sic so it takes me about 30 mins to get through the zone. I know someone is going to say "just make a wiz/dru and port past it. Well making and leveling one to 116 takes a little longer than the 30 minutes to kill my way through. Anyone have any real suggestions to deal with this new system?

Make 3 level 1's put them in your fellowship, then run / drag them through KV, rez at the other side.
[BGCOLOR=initial]Now it will take you 10minutes to log them in drop campfire and switch back to your real characters[/BGCOLOR]
[BGCOLOR=initial]Or have a mage at SV side in KV, Im sure there has to be a few spots that is safe[/BGCOLOR]

Stupid change (just saying)

 

[jande]

I don’t think it will reduce memory. It will reduce complexity and drops everything down to singular types. And you’re right, it makes it easier to design around in the future…but also, it gives them a chance to make it consistent. Now there are clear rules for what is what. (Like how some vampires were undead but most vampires were not)

I think it will be a long while before that consistency is reached though.

This is probably going to drag on for a year and then silently dropped as too much effort.

You realize that they’re touching almost 3 decades worth of coding? During a time where standard practice and documentation hardly exist. I am surprised it didn’t break more than it did.

I disagree standard practice and documentation is way older than EQ, they were simply too lazy to use it. In my 20's I was taught good practices by professors and that was years before EQ even existed.
Originally they thought 2-3 years of EQ and then it will fold so why do much effort.

 

[Mikey02]

This is probably going to drag on for a year and then silently dropped as too much effort.


I disagree standard practice and documentation is way older than EQ, they were simply too lazy to use it. In my 20's I was taught good practices by professors and that was years before EQ even existed.
Originally they thought 2-3 years of EQ and then it will fold so why do much effort.

Poor choice of word on my part. Things were more laxed back then. I went through college in the early 2000s and my profs didn’t enforce it much. These days everyone will give you the stink eyes if you don’t document everything.

Maybe it’s the industry I work in but when I am retrofitting systems, I often see code devoid of documentation spanning back as early as Fortran days.

They def didn’t think EQ would last this long.

 

[Hylander]

shadows valley, dragon necropoils, chardok (chokadai) etc. there are myriad zones that have a few see invis mobs that cause deaths and hellacious trains. Why so hung up on this one ?

if it’s such a problem, try the following

1. Level an FTP wiz or Druid. Put it in your Guild Hall. Run a buff bot macro and say ‘shadow‘.

Avoid KV. problem solved.

 

[Klunk]

I remeber years ago on raids , I had to get killed and dragged by a rogue to coth the raid not fun, I'm talking before zonewide coth and you had to have a line of mages people moving through the mage groups to get to the other side of a zone ,
Can you not just camp out a low mage there and coth the group over?

 

[Sifter228]

Now there are clear rules for what is what. (Like how some vampires were undead but most vampires were not)

The only reason some weren't is because a dev screwed up. This change won't prevent that.

 

[Turaj Steelfist]

shadows valley, dragon necropoils, chardok (chokadai) etc. there are myriad zones that have a few see invis mobs that cause deaths and hellacious trains. Why so hung up on this one ?

I have zero problem with zones having a few mobs that can cause issues trying to work around, however, in this case the zone is literally a death trap and has become a hindrance to the game. Luckily for me I have finished the quests in the zone, but there is no way people are going to quest there now because the quests there will take hours upon hours to complete if not days. You need to take your toons there and see the chaos they caused. As for getting a fellowship setup near the end of the zone that one person said that is not possible either because there is no safe spot. As for making a porter to bypass the zone, really? You expect people to make a new toon and put hours/days into that toon just to avoid the poorly made mechanics of a few zones? How about fix what they broke. When they created the zones they did so and made the difficulty according to how much time they assumed it would take and how difficult it would be for, I assume, the average player then they went and at the very least quadrupled the difficulty by changing it a few months later. This isn't about me and making a way for me to bypass the brokenness of the game, but rather all the little guys that don't have the time to do so. I have a 113 wiz that would not be a huge hassle to get to 116. I play to have fun and this change removes the fun. I love the challenge of EQ, but this is not a challenge it is a game breaker.

 

[jande]

As for getting a fellowship setup near the end of the zone that one person said that is not possible either because there is no safe spot.

At the zonein from KV except if people now train mobs there.
Less ideal the little island with quest npc's in the north of the zone, no hostile mobs there at all.

 

[Knightly]

The only reason some weren't is because a dev screwed up. This change won't prevent that.

It’s easy to say “someone screwed up” but keep in mind that people aren’t the same. Keeping on the theme of “vampires” — Twilight vampires are very different from Interview With a Vampire vampires and both differ from the vampire as laid out in Dracula which differs from vampires of mythology. Would a vampire’s reflection show in a modern day mirror since it has no silver backing? Rhetorical, but I’m just pointing out that different developer interpretations don’t necessarily mean someone screwed up.

A clear design document (which is what they have now) doesn’t prevent mistakes, but it does make it so that there’s something to reference for consistency. Otherwise it is open to interpretation. Even if it’s only mostly correct on a go forward basis — laying out “this is how it should be” is a much better step to consistency then “well, immerse yourself in 25 years of conflicting code by multiple developers and then make a judgment call.”

In my opinion, not knowing the right answer and making a choice isn’t screwing up.

 

[Sifter228]

I’m just pointing out that different developer interpretations don’t necessarily mean someone screwed up.

In my opinion, not knowing the right answer and making a choice isn’t screwing up.

We don't disagree at all. We see the same facts. That's what's important.

 

[an_image]

It’s easy to say “someone screwed up” but keep in mind that people aren’t the same. Keeping on the theme of “vampires” — Twilight vampires are very different from Interview With a Vampire vampires and both differ from the vampire as laid out in Dracula which differs from vampires of mythology. Would a vampire’s reflection show in a modern day mirror since it has no silver backing? Rhetorical, but I’m just pointing out that different developer interpretations don’t necessarily mean someone screwed up.

A clear design document (which is what they have now) doesn’t prevent mistakes, but it does make it so that there’s something to reference for consistency. Otherwise it is open to interpretation. Even if it’s only mostly correct on a go forward basis — laying out “this is how it should be” is a much better step to consistency then “well, immerse yourself in 25 years of conflicting code by multiple developers and then make a judgment call.”

In my opinion, not knowing the right answer and making a choice isn’t screwing up.

 

[Hopeless]

From today's patch note, looks like they fixed this issue (hopefully). No more death race......

 

[Sum1]

I just have lots of lvl 85 heroic mages sitting in key places. Kill a path through KV once and then park a mage on the other side. Now, it's a simple coth through rather than something more time consuming. We should all have oodles of free heroic toons from past give-a-ways.