From the other thread:
shadowstalker said:
There are 2 ways to look at this, in my opinion:
A. People who bitch and moan about WoW never played it.
B. People who bitch and moan about WoW played it, sucked at it, got their ass handed to them in PvP and never made it into a PvE raiding guild.
I did pretty much everything that was available to do in WoW before I quit. The things I didn't do would just be a different version of the dame thing (i.e. maxing smithing vs tailoring..
I FEEL THAT smithing is no more fun or interesting than tailoring so there is no reason to say I left something out because I didn't max both). That being said I don't really like WoW. I stuck around for so long because I got so many of my RL friends to play it and I kept thinking that eventually I would find the part where the game gets good. I thought "If I get to max level..." "Maybe once I finish all of my gear..." "I'll rank up in PvP..." "I'll join a raiding guild..." "Maybe once we get further in Naxx..." "I'll get some faction and get all of these crazy recipes..." etc etc etc... It never happened. The game never really got "good"
IN MY OPINION. This is not to say it is a bad terrible evil wrong horrible game. It's just not that good
IN MY OPINION IN CASE THAT ISN'T OBVIOUS FROM ME TALKING ABOUT MY EXPERIENCE WITH THE GAME IN THE WHOLE REST OF THE PARAGRAPH. WoW is mediocre (plus or minus a bit towards good or bad in differing cases) in just about every respect
IN MY OPINION. If you total it all up, WoW is probably the best mmorpg ever released after you weigh in every factor
THOUGH THIS IS OF COURSE JUST MY OPINION.
I FEEL THAT every other game that did something better than WoW did something else worse. Unfortunately for me the things these other games did wrong are trivial to me and the things they did right are more important. *shrug*
From this thread:
Mordiceius said:
OH NOES!! WOW IS KILLING GAMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously people, SHUT THE FUCK UP.
I'm sick and tired of people saying that WoW is ruining the gaming world. Perhaps, millions of people play the game because it offers what they want in a game.
Actually.
THE WAY I SEE IT WoW is by no means "Killing Gaming".
I FEEL THAT it is however doing a pretty good job of killing what a good number of people want in their games.
FROM WHAT I CAN TELL you are completely right in that the "dark age of gaming" as you choose to call it is going away. I don't really think I am holding on for nostalgia's sake however. I simply want something different from my game than you do. From your other post:
Mordiceius said:
We're all forgetting one of the most important things about games though: They are supposed to be fun.
I disagree with this. At least in the sense that they are "always" supposed to be fun. They are supposed to provide an experience the player enjoys
IN MY OPINION. This doesn't necessarily have to come from having "fun". People go and see sad movies, they see scary movies, they see happy movies, they see violent movies, they see movies with intense drama, etc. Watching "The Passion Of The Christ" isn't supposed to be "fun" it's supposed to evoke some form of emotional response
FROM WHAT I CAN TELL. Why is it not okay for me to want something similar for my gaming experience?!
IN MY EXPERIENCE WoW is attempting to be nothing but fun fun fun fun fun. I don't want that. I want to experience more than win win win win tempered by the occasional minor annoyance of the extremely insignificant consequences of failure. I am capable of experiencing a much broader range of feeling and I would like a game that delivers an experience that understands and plays upon that.
AS I SEE IT fun fun fun fun is not immersive, it's cheap thrill after cheap thrill, it's laying in a hospital bed after surgery and hitting the morphine button over and over and over again. To me there is nothing stimulating or memorable about this type of experience. Real life is full of ups and downs
IN MY EXPERIENCE. To create an immersive experience for me it has to be somewhat realistic *shrug*.
IN MY OPINION WoW ruins the fun factor of playing in a virtual world because it trivializes fun. With ups and downs you have the means of quantifying and differentiating between the good times and the bad
OR SO I'VE HEARD. With WoW it's the same day in and day out
IN ALL THE TIME I HAVE SPENT PLAYING IT. With WoW I never get that "OMFG I can't believe we just did that!!!" feeling. It's more like "That was neat... Did it drop anything I want?". WoW is the first game that ever made me care more about advancement than about the "journey". I view this as a bad thing. I was never even close to doing everything that could be done in EQ yet I enjoyed playing. I was never max level, never had the best gear, never had a huge guild, etc... I tried everything I could think of to find a way to enjoy WoW in the same way and failed miserably.
Gouka said:
If you all want WoW banished and some hardcore uber MMO for you to grief in, fine, make one yourself. You'll probably get 10 subscibers, aka no MONEY. You can't pay for the maintenance, etc. And your 'oh-so-wanted' hardcore MMO dies. Then you realise it's not the game...it's just that NO ONE is interested in a hardcore MMO, except those 10 WoW-haters.
This is silly
IN MY OPINION. An MMORPG costs millions and millions to make
OR SO I'VE HEARD. I don't want to make an MMORPG. I don't even hold on to the idea that someone will ever make my perfect game. It's unlikely even if I were to make it myself I could accomplish this. There is always something that could be better or at least "different". What I, and I assume others like myself, want is for it to be known that there IS a market out there for games that offer something more. It won't be the 8 million sub WoW market
IN MY OPINION. But I am pretty sure there are enough people who want something more from their game that they could sustain an MMORPG. I think even new people who are hardcore into WoW would still be interested in a game that offers more challenge and a "deeper" experience.
The thing is that
I FEEL THAT no game coming out now or any time in the near future (next 3-4 years) is going to take a significant chunk of WoW's market share away. So why even try to capture that market?
I THINK THAT VG, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, etc will not be able to touch WoW. So why try to fight for a chunk of a market that you can't win when you can make a game that appeals to a market that has no where to go. I have had several people I know try Vanguard and decide not to play it. When I asked them why... General answer was something along the lines of: "It's too similar to WoW and it runs like shit... Why would I want to start over there when I can already play WoW." VG never ever never had a chance to beat WoW or even put a dent in its subscriber base
IN MY OPINION. Yet instead of appealing to a different subset of players, someone over there at SOE decided VG had to appeal to WoW players
FROM WHAT I CAN TELL... Why?! I THINK it could have been different and offered a real choice for players. Now the options are "Play WoW?" or "Play WoW that runs like shit and is incomplete". *shrug*
***Edited so that no one is misled into thinking I speak da troof.