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Question - Group Tweaking (1 Viewer)

leadwise

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2020
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Hey Redguides! Thanks for all the useful info you regularly post. Here's my group and a couple questions (on live server):

SK/Bard/Enc/Wiz/Mag/Cleric. The SK mage and bard are 117 and the others are catching up at 108.

Im liking it so far! Some things I wonder.

-Am I gimping myself with the wizard, rather than having another mage in that slot? I like the ports and the big booms so far.

-Do I need the cleric or would a shaman be better for healer? Cleric seems a little easier but might be missing out on stuff with shaman (I have a shaman at 115). My thoughts is with the enchanter CC I can get by with less healing.

-I know most would say Bard/Enchanter is kinda suboptimal but I do like the two together and they stack in some surprising ways.
 
wiz are in a good spot for group, and even raids. could they be more glass cannon, yes, but they arnt as terrible as they have been. dont "need" a bard and enc. bard provides better ADPS (imo), enchanter is peace of mind.. they are CC masters.. but no need for both (imo and as others have pointed out). Id put a necro or bst, maybe? a second mage in that spot. Necros, slow to start, but can be punishing DPS past 45 seconds. BST are ok general DPS, great ADPS, and on a burn can rock it (but general engagements, just ok). Mages is HAM and super solid in current game, but some people dont like to dupe classes.
 
Hey Redguides! Thanks for all the useful info you regularly post. Here's my group and a couple questions (on live server):

SK/Bard/Enc/Wiz/Mag/Cleric. The SK mage and bard are 117 and the others are catching up at 108.

Im liking it so far! Some things I wonder.

-Am I gimping myself with the wizard, rather than having another mage in that slot? I like the ports and the big booms so far.

-Do I need the cleric or would a shaman be better for healer? Cleric seems a little easier but might be missing out on stuff with shaman (I have a shaman at 115). My thoughts is with the enchanter CC I can get by with less healing.

-I know most would say Bard/Enchanter is kinda suboptimal but I do like the two together and they stack in some surprising ways.
I see folks tell you to drop the enchanter to add a bard and that is viable - but its not necessary.
I see folks telling you to add a necromancer, and that is also viable. I have a 120 necro that I rolled in 99 and play it sometimes - just that things die so fast in group that necromancer doesn't really add all that much to the group.
Your wizard provides good burst dps and ports are very nice and convenient.
There is nothing wrong with running bard alongside the enchanter - its a strong adps combination. Your group is fine as is.
However, if it were me - I would probably replace the enchanter with a beastlord. You are missing some important buffs by running the cleric instead of a shaman and the beastlord can help provide those along with another strong pet. Alternatively swap out the cleric for shaman.
Both cleric and enchanter are great guild hall buff bots, some might say a shaman is a great guild hall buff bot too - but its your group and you decide what is fun and effective.
In my groups, I try to max the buff spreads. I usually do without ports, but have been raising a wizard and a druid lately - both are fun
 
Looks fun to play. go with your gut. bst over ench sounds fun/sham over cleric is also nice. one of either beast or shaman would probably be helpful for you. the bard/ench has room for something more dps friendly imo.
shaman/sk combo is really really nice for tank/heals. the rest of your group looks like something a caster would enjoy:). looks like u can cc and hold any issues your group would have and u have probably very good dps regardless.

anyway. have fun and dont sweat trying new things. RG makes it alot easier to do that.
 
Necro does seem a waste in most Group Game content - So I would stick with the Wizard.

Not as great as a Mage in current game - but not far behind.
Stick with the Enchanter too - keep the caster theme and get your Chromatic Haze pumping and watch those booms go crazy.

Cleric is good too. Nothing in the current game is going to be unbeatable with that setup - go with what you enjoy.
 
Necro does seem a waste in most Group Game content - So I would stick with the Wizard.

Not as great as a Mage in current game - but not far behind.
Stick with the Enchanter too - keep the caster theme and get your Chromatic Haze pumping and watch those booms go crazy.

Cleric is good too. Nothing in the current game is going to be unbeatable with that setup - go with what you enjoy.
I play a FTP mage and a raid gear mage - I have an all access wizard i play with them sometimes.
The raid gear mage always does more dps than any other, but the wizard often does more dps than the ftp mage.
If I actually had good gear on the wizard instead of a mix of T1 ToL, mission augs and some stinky heroic still - it would always outdo the FTP mage - currently it only does so most of the time.
 
Suggestions, suggestions, suggestions. We all have them, we all make them, and in the end...does it really matter? Do what you want, play what you want. If you are truly looking to min/max and have the absolute best synergy possible, that is different. If you are pushing end-game mechanics and trying the nearly impossible, that is different. With that said, let me be a hypocrite and offer my opinions LOL!

You ask about a Shaman vs Cleric. 2 things - If this was a melee-focused group, the shaman is 100%. Since it isn't, the cleric is fine and you have rezzes. Does your 115 SHM have the rez stick? While SHM can do just fine in solo group settings, is it necessary to make a switch? I don't think so.

Yes, the BRD/ENC combo is overkill. Sure, there are advantages, but neither is a pure DPS class, and both serve for aDPS and CC roles. Have you ever seen a group in the current game that consisted of 1 Tank, 1 Heals, and 4 ENC/BRD's? Probably not as it is a silly composition and unnecessary. Long gone are the days of kiting stuff around, or charm tanking.

People are talking about adding a NEC is silly in the group game, and I have to say, NEC in equal gear outdoes my MAG for 75-80% of all group content, even the silly trash because he doesn't have mana issues. Ever. And of course, longer fights it isn't even close. I have never once said...too bad I made a NEC, my group is suffering. In fact, the opposite. I have another group I made where I dropped the BST in favor of a 2nd NEC. I made more in line with future raiding, but it is fun to see the two NECs battle it out.

As far as Wizard - I have yet to say "Oh man, I wish I had a port". With clickies, pok books, guildhall, bard double invis, etc...I am never missing not having a wizard. This isn't 1999.

In the end, play what you like. If your goals change to a more - "I want the best of the best of the best to be the best" attitude, then we can offer some more advice. In the meantime, have fun and enjoy the experience.
 
Leadwise

Like everyone else here I have an opinion. But just one. I just got hooked up on CWTN's plugins recently. I have 4 now and the one that has made the BIGGEST difference in my group, is the Enchanter. Like I said in a previous post I have switched the toon that I watch the most from my WAR to my ENC. I truly didn't realize the potential of the class. Just yesterday I was in the Library in HoT and was running invis to a named. Unknowing to me, one toon dropped invis. When I realized it, I already had a extended target window full of mobs. Everybody panic, "Train to zone" lol. Now some of these were light blue, but the rest were dark blue, and there was a shit ton of them. Well all I did was stop and let the tank do his thing getting aggro and then my "Beauty" went to work. She aoe mezzed them, debuffed the one the tank was fighting, charmed one and sicced it on the MA's target, and then nuked the crap out of the target. Bammm, all in like 10 seconds. She kept everything locked down throughout the fight and slowed and debuffed every mob. Because her charmed pet always pulls the most aggro, she would change them up during the fight after one got killed and it seemed like she always had a second mob charmed on standby (not sure how that works). That fight went on for 7-8 minutes and all my toons were standing at the end of it. I was sitting there saying to myself "Holy shit" several times. My ECH is truly awesome. We will give the CLR her props too, but without that ENC I don't think that fight would have gone the way it did. I am just not afraid to pull anymore because of her.

So, yes, in my humble opinion I say keep the ENC and get CWTN's plugin for ENC. Fricking gold man.

Vrak
 
I second not having BRD and ENC in the same group. I am running basically two groups (and looking for feedback myself:)

SK,SHM,BRD,BST,ROG,BER (all at or around the 110 mark)

and (still very low and considering testing. Would LOVE feedback.)

WAR,CLE,ENC,MAG,NEC,DRU
 
I second not having BRD and ENC in the same group. I am running basically two groups (and looking for feedback myself:)

SK,SHM,BRD,BST,ROG,BER (all at or around the 110 mark)

and (still very low and considering testing. Would LOVE feedback.)

WAR,CLE,ENC,MAG,NEC,DRU
1st group is arguably the best melee composition in the game.

2nd group is solid, but I would argue in favor of dropping the druid for another bst.
 
Absolutely. I have the same group but BST over DRU. No issues whatsoever. WAR is not as fun to play as a SHD/PAL though. Pretty dry and straight forward.
 
Absolutely. I have the same group but BST over DRU. No issues whatsoever. WAR is not as fun to play as a SHD/PAL though. Pretty dry and straight forward.
As a secondary point without highjacking this post too much: As far as raw tanking capacity, would I be better served to stay as WAR or switch to PAL? I have no real intention of playing either much myself, but do need a tank and wasn't going to do another SK. I am good with either option, but wanted to do something different from SK.
 
drop the enchanter go with a beastlord. I do these combos
war or sk/bard/beastlord/zerk/zerk/cleric or
pal/bard/shaman/zerk/zerk/monk
pal/druid/enchanter/wiz/wiz/wiz
sk/shaman/bard/mage/mage/mage
replace the dps with wiz/mage/rogue/zerk/ranger/monk/nec whatever dps you like

with a cleric you dont really need a shaman or druid. you'll want slow if your tank doesnt have augs in every slot. bard slow isnt good enough imo so a beastlord/shaman is best. you could use an enchanter for slow/cc/crack instead of the bard but you have to pull with the tank. you'll want to keep endurance up for tankage disks. bards add more dps to classes with pets than enchanters
 
I would stay with the cleric. I have two groups one running Shaman and the other running Cleric and the survivability of the cleric group is much better. Having the cleric 2.0 epic is an amazing "oh shit" button.
 
drop the enchanter go with a beastlord. I do these combos
war or sk/bard/beastlord/zerk/zerk/cleric or
pal/bard/shaman/zerk/zerk/monk
pal/druid/enchanter/wiz/wiz/wiz
sk/shaman/bard/mage/mage/mage
replace the dps with wiz/mage/rogue/zerk/ranger/monk/nec whatever dps you like

with a cleric you dont really need a shaman or druid. you'll want slow if your tank doesnt have augs in every slot. bard slow isnt good enough imo so a beastlord/shaman is best. you could use an enchanter for slow/cc/crack instead of the bard but you have to pull with the tank. you'll want to keep endurance up for tankage disks. bards add more dps to classes with pets than enchanters
How do you like Pal/Dru/Ench/Wiz x3?

I'm looking to start up a caster crew as my current one is heavy melee (sk, clr, shm, brd, zerk, rog -- probably will replace SHM with BST before too long).

I've liked WIZ forever, but it seems they're so underpowered in current content, especially compared to MAG and NEC that it seems like it'd be pretty sub-optimal.

Do the PAL/DRU manage heals and buffs sufficiently well?
 
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How do you like Pal/Dru/Ench/Wiz x3?

I'm looking to start up a caster crew as my current one is heavy melee (sk, clr, shm, brd, zerk, rog -- probably will replace SHM with BST before too long).

I've liked WIZ forever, but it seems they're so underpowered in current content, especially compared to MAG and NEC that it seems like it'd be pretty sub-optimal.

Do the PAL/DRU manage heals and buffs sufficiently well?
It's fast kills and fun to watch when it goes right. You need gear/clickies and AA to sustain Wizard dps. Some of the heals for both the Druid/Pal are similar to the Cleric light line of spells. They take 3 or so seconds to cast. For the Druid Sootheseance is like a Cleric Remedy or depending on your level Rejuvenescence is less than 1 or 2s. I just spam it. Same with the Pal. Touch line takes too long to cast but they have Grotto and Burst which is instant, Lay on Hands and AAs.
 
drop the enchanter go with a beastlord. I do these combos
war or sk/bard/beastlord/zerk/zerk/cleric or
pal/bard/shaman/zerk/zerk/monk
pal/druid/enchanter/wiz/wiz/wiz
sk/shaman/bard/mage/mage/mage
replace the dps with wiz/mage/rogue/zerk/ranger/monk/nec whatever dps you like

with a cleric you dont really need a shaman or druid. you'll want slow if your tank doesnt have augs in every slot. bard slow isnt good enough imo so a beastlord/shaman is best. you could use an enchanter for slow/cc/crack instead of the bard but you have to pull with the tank. you'll want to keep endurance up for tankage disks. bards add more dps to classes with pets than enchanters
Bard slow and beast slow are on par with each other. The idea that the bard one is somehow not viable is just personal prejudice really, especially with how slow mitigation works. Get the RoF class weapon, then 1 group the raids for the raid version and you even get an instant cast clicky of it with better duration.

As for the OP, Run what you enjoy. For me, when I use an SK for tank, I'll always include a Beast and a Druid, then flesh out the rest of the group with whatever. I prefer balanced mixed groups however, so YMMV. The caveat with druids is their AA nukes. Don't use 'em. They do nothing but drain mana, can not be focused, and are therefore the worst use of mana in the game. Avoid those and the rest isn't too bad, especially if you include a mage for rods or a bard, or both? Overall, if you enjoy it, it's the right group to be doing. Also of note is that both the beast and druid will lower attack ratings of mobs, thus having a stacking effect with slow and AC mitigations. It's quite handy, especially if you use a warrior or pet to tank. All that HP bouncing vanishes.
 
Bard slow and beast slow are on par with each other. The idea that the bard one is somehow not viable is just personal prejudice really, especially with how slow mitigation works. Get the RoF class weapon, then 1 group the raids for the raid version and you even get an instant cast clicky of it with better duration.

As for the OP, Run what you enjoy. For me, when I use an SK for tank, I'll always include a Beast and a Druid, then flesh out the rest of the group with whatever. I prefer balanced mixed groups however, so YMMV. The caveat with druids is their AA nukes. Don't use 'em. They do nothing but drain mana, can not be focused, and are therefore the worst use of mana in the game. Avoid those and the rest isn't too bad, especially if you include a mage for rods or a bard, or both? Overall, if you enjoy it, it's the right group to be doing. Also of note is that both the beast and druid will lower attack ratings of mobs, thus having a stacking effect with slow and AC mitigations. It's quite handy, especially if you use a warrior or pet to tank. All that HP bouncing vanishes.
For Brevity
Bard slow Requiem of Time according to Allas is 75% but the spell data shows 52% - 55% | Takes 3s to cast and for my setup if you Bardslow it's not pulling/mezzing/buffing which are short duration buffs. If she gets resisted it's another 3s before a slow could land
Beastlord Sha's Reprisal according to Allas is is 65% but the spell data shows 70% | Instant
Shaman Turgur's Insects according to Allas is 16% - 90% but the spell data shows 66% - 75% | Instant
Enchanter Forlorn Deeds 80% level 61
 
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Hey Redguides! Thanks for all the useful info you regularly post. Here's my group and a couple questions (on live server):

SK/Bard/Enc/Wiz/Mag/Cleric. The SK mage and bard are 117 and the others are catching up at 108.

Im liking it so far! Some things I wonder.

-Am I gimping myself with the wizard, rather than having another mage in that slot? I like the ports and the big booms so far.

-Do I need the cleric or would a shaman be better for healer? Cleric seems a little easier but might be missing out on stuff with shaman (I have a shaman at 115). My thoughts is with the enchanter CC I can get by with less healing.

-I know most would say Bard/Enchanter is kinda suboptimal but I do like the two together and they stack in some surprising ways.
Yea, toss da'Wiz, add Beast-Lord (Mage equipped pet ymm!)
 
Question - Group Tweaking

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