Discussion - Gearing Your Toon Priorities (1 Viewer)

[RobRenfro]

This thread is intended to show players the best way to gear their toons. What their priorities should be and why?

1. Tanks Eat First Always
1.a. Repeat!!! Tanks Eat First
Your tank gets the best gear and weapons First and Always.
2. Healer
Next look to your healer. Make sure they have the gear they need to heal your group.
3. Melee DPS Weapons
Make sure your melee toons have the best available weapons.
4. Caster Gear
Make sure you take care of your casters as you can.
5. Melee Gear
Finally look to your melee armor.

For those of you wondering how to spend your cash. This is a pretty good model.

 

[ArcaneProphet]

This thread is intended to show players the best way to fear their toons.

 

[ArcaneProphet]

What about if you don't drive/pull with your tank? Would you prioritize the driver 3rd behind Healer? Or would you suggest still following the same priority of classes regardless if it's a driver/puller?

 

[an_image]

This thread is intended to show players the best way to gear their toons. What their priorities should be and why?

1. Tanks Eat First Always
1.a. Repeat!!! Tanks Eat First
Your tank gets the best gear and weapons First and Always.
2. Healer
Next look to your healer. Make sure they have the gear they need to heal your group.
3. Melee DPS Weapons
Make sure your melee toons have the best available weapons.
4. Caster Gear
Make sure you take care of your casters as you can.
5. Melee Gear
Finally look to your melee armor.

For those of you wondering how to spend your cash. This is a pretty good model.

Tank, Healer, Crowd Control...then everyone else @RobRenfro ...

Those with more wisdom/experience will always tell ya those are your 3 big rocks...everything else fits in around those 3 things.

And now...this

 

[RobRenfro]

What about if you don't drive/pull with your tank? Would you prioritize the driver 3rd behind Healer? Or would you suggest still following the same priority of classes regardless if it's a driver/puller?

There are exceptions to everything I just wanted to give a baseline.

 

[RobRenfro]

Tank, Healer, Crowd Control...then everyone else @RobRenfro ...

Those with more wisdom/experience will always tell ya those are your 3 big rocks...everything else fits in around those 3 things.

And now...this

Bards and Enchanters don't require much in the way of armor so I let them fall into class in the baseline.

 

[ArcaneProphet]

I love the baseline and appreciate it. Was just curious if others drive with their non-tank like me what they would do. I know it's not necessarily recommended and will be the exception. Right now I tend to prioritize my driver 3rd but can be convinced otherwise.

 

[RobRenfro]

I love the baseline and appreciate it. Was just curious if others drive with their non-tank like me what they would do. I know it's not necessarily recommended and will be the exception. Right now I tend to prioritize my driver 3rd but can be convinced otherwise.

To answer your question of course I would prioritize armoring your puller/driver I'd put that 3rd as you suggested. As people often put Bards anyway.

 

[Eltai86]

This comes from the perspective of someone who has geared out an entire 54 man raid force including both in the group and raid game.

Weapons:
Melee dps>tanks>bards>casters>healers

Gear:
Tanks>dps>bard/enc>healers

I take a per slot perspective, a wrist does more for a nec/bst/shm/enc then it does for a ranger for example.

 

[secret_wombat]

I usually go Tank > Others except if the item has a better Focus Effect in which case it goes DPS>Tank>Others

 

[eqsubi15]

Agree fully. Your team will die fast if your Tank is too squishy, or cannot hold aggro. Makes no sense to give your DPS classes priority of gear. All you'll end up doing is pulling aggro off your tank fast and wipe.

Upgrade your team with the fight concept "slow and steady wins the race". Basically, you'll do fine killing stuff as long as your tank can take the hits, hold aggro, and your healer has no mana issues. Improving your DPS gear after the fact will just speed up that concept. Can't do it backwards without some really hairy battles, lol.

 

[JustGlassin]

also prioritize the big 3 epics (sk shm brd)! im kinda regretting all the time i spent so far while being too lazy to do my epic. by the time i get around to doing it ill be max AA and will barely need it anymore lol.

its basically running 1/3 of the time for a huge dps gain. probably more effective timewise for your team than getting good weapons will be.

also heroic stat augs have felt pretty huge to me, definitely dont forget those!

 

[juice999]

Bards and Enchanters don't require much in the way of armor so I let them fall into class in the baseline.

This is true, they don't require as much armor. However, I waited to do my Enchanter's raid gear last recently and I honestly felt like I might have waited longer than I should have. The amount of survivability he gained was amazing and he actually even started doing some damage. My point is, I think that what order you gear your team beyond Tank/Healer is kind of subjective to what era you're in, what your team composition is, and just how bad your team's gear is so you can locate weak points.

 

[TempusX]

It's definitely dependent on group composition, but I fully operate on a biggest bang for the buck in terms of upgrades. As a group with no CC (okay, bard, but screw mezzing), I operate on a Might Makes Right to handle bad pulls, which means I need a beefy tank and DPS giving their all. Or we wipe. If I can kill it (them) before it gets me, we're golden. if not, we go try again.


So for me, my upgrade concerns are:

Tank Armor - if it's 5-40 Item AC (Ish) upgrades and the tank is doing fine, I'm not worried and revisit this at a later time.
Melee DPS weapons - Major priority
Healer ... heal focii.

After those very few slots are covered it becomes case by case as Eltai mentioned. Often maybe a spell focus for shaman dots might be a better upgrade than it would be on a monk in the same slot being just raw survivability stats. Once we're done with any focii we *might* use, it's very much dex augs to melee/tank, then shoring up hp/mana/end on whatever slot is weakest on that slot on the team against the items I have access to, either in my bags or capacity to kill via group or raid format. Typically outside of heal focii, my healers eat dead last unless an AE or something kills them, which is pretty rare. Chances are if the raid geard tank dies, the group is going to red mist if they have enough gear or not, so another 20 or 50k on a healer is unlikely to save them. Their self DI procs are a safer bet.

 

[pasthiml]

I think it depends on drop. If it is a melee weapon, then melee DPS goes first. If it is pet mod earring, mage, bst nec go first. Depends on the mods, and how it affects the group. If in doubt, the baseline is a good fall back.

 

[RobRenfro]

This comes from the perspective of someone who has geared out an entire 54 man raid force including both in the group and raid game.

Weapons:
Melee dps>tanks>bards>casters>healers

Gear:
Tanks>dps>bard/enc>healers

I take a per slot perspective, a wrist does more for a nec/bst/shm/enc then it does for a ranger for example.

I've geared a small army and raid force also. I think the Slot method is totally viable. But I would have needed a spreadsheet to properly layout who gets what over whom. I do micro slotting for lack of a better term. Slotting within the confines of my basic ruleset.

 

[Sic]

This comes from the perspective of someone who has geared out an entire 54 man raid force including both in the group and raid game.

Weapons:
Melee dps>tanks>bards>casters>healers

Gear:
Tanks>dps>bard/enc>healers

I take a per slot perspective, a wrist does more for a nec/bst/shm/enc then it does for a ranger for example.

i agree with this approach pretty fully.

I haven't raid gear'd 54 on my lonesome, so not even close to Eltai's approach, but he seems pretty spot on

couple other points to mention

assuming everyone has base hps they need, healers get gear'd last pretty much

some stuff get's prio - like pet ears for mag/nec/bst
zerk getting zerk weapon asap cause they're needy fuckers

could other things to consider:
ensuring shammies have double duration most-recent-progressive spell
ensuring necros have most-recent short pyre focus

I think Rob is on FV and i don't think Eltai is, so that would also factor in, being able to share stuff of downgrades to other toons - not being able to share means putting a little more forethought into how you're distrubuting gear --- accidentally giving your warrior 3 wrists would be a bummer on non-FV rules loot server (i think hytiek did this)

Spoiler

too bad the TA can't get hand me downs - sorry hytiek

 

[Nobody99]

While my tank gears first, my healers tend to get whatever castoffs I have. They have no issue healing without the best gear. Dps however, needs as much as they can get that helps with their primary role.

 

[Naeeldar]

While my tank gears first, my healers tend to get whatever castoffs I have. They have no issue healing without the best gear. Dps however, needs as much as they can get that helps with their primary role.

THIS.. Healer needs a heal focus and to Sic's point base hps. but once they have that you want to gear up the melee dps first. When they begin putting out big numbers - you frankly care less about gear for everyone because you burn through mobs.

 

[Eltai86]

I've geared a small army and raid force also. I think the Slot method is totally viable. But I would have needed a spreadsheet to properly layout who gets what over whom. I do micro slotting for lack of a better term. Slotting within the confines of my basic ruleset.

And this is why I have a Google sheet that is slots as columns, character as rows. I color code gear tiers. In 5-10 secs I can quickly identify who would gain the most out of an upgrade most of the time

 

[Eltai86]

i agree with this approach pretty fully.

I haven't raid gear'd 54 on my lonesome, so not even close to Eltai's approach, but he seems pretty spot on

couple other points to mention

assuming everyone has base hps they need, healers get gear'd last pretty much

some stuff get's prio - like pet ears for mag/nec/bst
zerk getting zerk weapon asap cause they're needy fuckers

could other things to consider:
ensuring shammies have double duration most-recent-progressive spell
ensuring necros have most-recent short pyre focus

I think Rob is on FV and i don't think Eltai is, so that would also factor in, being able to share stuff of downgrades to other toons - not being able to share means putting a little more forethought into how you're distrubuting gear --- accidentally giving your warrior 3 wrists would be a bummer on non-FV rules loot server (i think hytiek did this)

Spoiler

too bad the TA can't get hand me downs - sorry hytiek

Yep that is very close to what I did in NOS.
Bps went to shamans until they all had theirs because of the duration boost for ecliptic.

It also depends on expansion and what events you can handle. When I was doing tol for example zelnithak was the second mob to go down, because of this ores did not get prioritized to pet classes out the gate (because hello pet ear piñata).

Yes, being on a non-fv ruleset has its disadvantages because you need to be a lot more strategic with how you distribute. Also can’t just loot everything and sort it later either It also depends somewhat on the leaps you are taking, if you worked through cov then tol into nos into LS the base tier is already established. My clerics ate last outside of a neck upgrade.

If you are going from raid tier to raid tier upgrading arms/legs on your melee is less important then if you’re going from grp gear to raid gear.

 

[RobRenfro]

I just want to make one counterpoint about gearing your healers last.
When someone posts on this forum a topic like "My Shaman just can't keep up with heals"
What is the first question everyone asks?
Well what kind of gear does he have?
Or some version of that. Except me I just call them a fucking liar a Shaman can heal anything.

 

[RobRenfro]

And this is why I have a Google sheet that is slots as columns, character as rows. I color code gear tiers. In 5-10 secs I can quickly identify who would gain the most out of an upgrade most of the time

Dude I know just from our couple of conversations that you are far more detailed and efficient than I am. I admire the hell out of that and generally listen to the wisdom of your posts.

 

[Eltai86]

I just want to make one counterpoint about gearing your healers last.
When someone posts on this forum a topic like "My Shaman just can't keep up with heals"
What is the first question everyone asks?
Well what kind of gear does he have?
Or some version of that. Except me I just call them a fucking liar a Shaman can heal anything.

The bigger question is what gear/aa/augs does the tank have and how many mobs are they tanking at a time. Tanking/healing/dps all have contextual numbers to them.

 

[Nobody99]

Your healer needs enough hp to function and a few focii that concerns healing, anything else is just gravy. Of course, even my healers have 425k hp because that's where gear just is these days.
Going out and buying raid gear would pretty much do nothing, I don't raid so they don't see raid level aoe's. They just don't need it.

Priests are among the classes that I'm completely okay with running as a FTP.

 

[vandersl]

If one day I think to myself "I think I will spend some time getting gear", and my tank has any equipment that is not BIS then guess what? I will be going after gear for my tank.

Once the tank is fully up to date, then I might start spending time getting gear for the rest. Everything other than weapons is pretty simple - the modern game has reached the point where everyone ends up with the same gear, other than weapons. So I would prioritize:
1) Any under geared member that is constantly taking dirt naps. Assuming that's not the tank. See top priority.
2) Weapons for the melee classes. Will help clear PH's faster, which just helps a bit for the rest.
3) Pet earring for MAG, BST and MAG. I don't solo with a pet class, so doesn't make too much difference to me.
4) Other loot that really everyone needs.

As for dirt naps - I find Shaman, Bard and Cleric to be the toons that get hit / nap most often other than the tank. So I would put them at the top of the list for 1) and 4).

 

[Naeeldar]

I just want to make one counterpoint about gearing your healers last.
When someone posts on this forum a topic like "My Shaman just can't keep up with heals"
What is the first question everyone asks?
Well what kind of gear does he have?
Or some version of that. Except me I just call them a fucking liar a Shaman can heal anything.

First question is always aa. If you don’t have healing adept plus shower focus aa good luck.

 

[Nendiil]

I love the baseline and appreciate it. Was just curious if others drive with their non-tank like me what they would do. I know it's not necessarily recommended and will be the exception. Right now I tend to prioritize my driver 3rd but can be convinced otherwise.

I drive with my bard - for me the gearing priority is SK, SHM, Mage then others. I'm ok with CC getting some gear, but if the tank goes first and heals second, they can hold 3 mobs till CC gets shit under control. The key to maintaining in my mind is killing, if you have no DPS you'll drag on forever and eventually someone's cracks are gonna show. Substitute mage for whatever your top DPS is.

I don't know Pally and Warrior as well as I do SK, but with an SK in my experience, you get a lot of help on the AE aggro front. I could maybe see with a warrior and cleric combo, having solid CC may be a much bigger thing than my comp.

Be able to take some hits, dump some heals and drop the bastards. Then figure out the gaps to get each of your dudes to their best. That's my route.

 

[Atheos32]

I always prioritize my top DPS, the best defense is a good offense, right?

 

[RobRenfro]

First question is always aa. If you don’t have healing adept plus shower focus aa good luck.

That bullshit. Look at the threads. The first thing everyone wants to knows is about gear. Then FTP and then maybe AA. Not your first question. The consensus first question. It's gear man, pick a thread or two at random.

 

[Naeeldar]

That bullshit. Look at the threads. The first thing everyone wants to knows is about gear. Then FTP and then maybe AA. Not your first question. The consensus first question. It's gear man, pick a thread or two at random.

Tank gear yes. Shmana gear - it's the wrong question. Im running about 10 teams now every combination imaginable. Anybody worried about shaman gear is picking the wrong topic. It's actually irrelevant. I can run a shaman naked with my tank and it works fine. Why? My tank has 10000+ ac with 2 hander and my shaman has max aa. Shaman gear is irrelevant outside of AEs hence the baseline. Anybody asking what gear is shaman is - is just wrong. Simple as that.

 

[Redmonkey]

I think its like a catch -22. Without the AA then the armor is less, without the armor the AA is less, without augs its less and without progression AA they are less. So it all works together.

Although I have seen more "why is my sk sucking" posts than most others. And the answer is usually they lack augs.

 

[Nendiil]

I haven't really thought of it that way, a shaman can heal quite effectively naked, and the adept/focus AAs are 100% top AAs for a new shaman. I agree - they are the perfect class - but I still don't put him last on my gear priority list.

I want the shaman to be able to survive, by himself, if shit does hit the fan and he takes a few hits. I know so long as he doesn't take hits, he can heal better than Optimus Prime in his wildest wet dream. However, a few hits and I feel like my nekkid, maxed AA frog or lizard is gonna go visit his bind point pretty quick. Maybe a barbarian could take a few more nekkid hits than the amphibs..

 

[Grpsmashin]

Just my 2 red cents from lvl 100 and up:

Tank, Support, Healers = Gear

Tank, Support = type 7 & 5

Healers are a bit weird. I have run a new CLR and SHM and totally forgot to aug them. I mean they had none! lol both in separate groups also being main healer with no issues

But bigger discussion for melee vs caster groups too. But most of this was stated above from others

 

[Eltai86]

That bullshit. Look at the threads. The first thing everyone wants to knows is about gear. Then FTP and then maybe AA. Not your first question. The consensus first question. It's gear man, pick a thread or two at random.

I think a lot of this has to do with who is asking the questions as well.

I’d argue 70% of players have zero clue about Eq mechanics/classes, 10% know enough to misunderstand and be dangerous, 15% of them can reference why xyz and <5% understand, test, data analyze and can fully do the optimization/maximization for a particular class themselves and not be dependent solely on abc guide says to do xyz.

Example 1: How many people do you think can tell you what the optimal Aug configuration for a warrior is given a unique static group configuration, gear set and additional parameters?

Example 2: How many people do you think understand what +20 SD actually does including a basic understanding of how SD functions, when it gets applied and how, and what that actually means for their dps.

Example 3: Before the recent change to battle leap how many people playing bers/wars hit Vehement rage anyways when it basically had a non parseable impact with large detriment.

Example 4: How many know why using Bst dicho is better optimization vs using any of the following versions of the line. I’m sure Sic can vouch for how many people would have ranted/posted/messaged why is mq2bst using dicho instead of the composite/dissident/ecliptic line if they had just hard coded what is in 99% of the cases the optimal strategy instead of making it a toggle.

Just my 2 red cents from lvl 100 and up:

Tank, Support, Healers = Gear

Tank, Support = type 7 & 5

Healers are a bit weird. I have run a new CLR and SHM and totally forgot to aug them. I mean they had none! lol both in separate groups also being main healer with no issues

But bigger discussion for melee vs caster groups too. But most of this was stated above from others

loved seeing you bring up the melee vs caster groups here.

The answer is outside of increasing hp and mana pools type 5/7 augs do very little for casters/priests. After a certain point hp pool size becomes less relevant, increased mana pool only increases the time before needing to take a quick med break. The same cannot be said for melee dps or tanks.

 

[Nobody99]

So just for giggles, I put my free heroic 100 as a persona on my druid acct. No gear other than the granted, autogrant aa's. About 75k hp, grandiose has no bp click. No epic, etc. 5 minute old character. Ran unity, and currently running a grind in NOS. I'd run LS grind, but I'd need to be level 110.

No problem at all. It's all about the tank. And I don't have anywhere near a top end tank. It's TOL raid geared.

-edit to add-
Of course, the shaman dps is pretty weak at that level/gear. Only hitting 100k dps per fight occasionally. Usually about 50-60k. No point in melee with the grandiose stick in hand.

 

[TinyBubbles]

This thread is intended to show players the best way to gear their toons. What their priorities should be and why?

1. Tanks Eat First Always
1.a. Repeat!!! Tanks Eat First
Your tank gets the best gear and weapons First and Always.
2. Healer
Next look to your healer. Make sure they have the gear they need to heal your group.
3. Melee DPS Weapons
Make sure your melee toons have the best available weapons.
4. Caster Gear
Make sure you take care of your casters as you can.
5. Melee Gear
Finally look to your melee armor.

For those of you wondering how to spend your cash. This is a pretty good model.

What Sir Rob of Clan Renfo said!

Reading the comments about AA's ... I make the assumption those come as you level. I used to be get the 5 levels and then AA grind. In LS, I got 1 level +10% die buffer, then maxed AA, next level +10%, then maxes AA. Rinse Repeat to 125. For me, I am now sold on 1 level +max AA for level, then next level, etc.

When it comes to gearing, I agree with Rob. 100%. Before I was here in these forums, I had a regular group. And we'd always gear the tank first. Tank dies, everyone dies (No, its not that simple, but Imma keep it that simple). So the Tank gets the gear, the healer gets 2nd dibs. I, as a non-tank/healer can get a rezz after the fight those two survived. And I'll eventually get my gear and augs, etc. My qualifier is that gear has never meant much to me. Its always been about hanging out and having fun. I understand some folks are built like that and put different priorities on things.

So... Preach it Brother Rob of the Renfo!

 

[RobRenfro]

What Sir Rob of Clan Renfo said!

Reading the comments about AA's ... I make the assumption those come as you level. I used to be get the 5 levels and then AA grind. In LS, I got 1 level +10% die buffer, then maxed AA, next level +10%, then maxes AA. Rinse Repeat to 125. For me, I am now sold on 1 level +max AA for level, then next level, etc.

When it comes to gearing, I agree with Rob. 100%. Before I was here in these forums, I had a regular group. And we'd always gear the tank first. Tank dies, everyone dies (No, its not that simple, but Imma keep it that simple). So the Tank gets the gear, the healer gets 2nd dibs. I, as a non-tank/healer can get a rezz after the fight those two survived. And I'll eventually get my gear and augs, etc. My qualifier is that gear has never meant much to me. Its always been about hanging out and having fun. I understand some folks are built like that and put different priorities on things.

So... Preach it Brother Rob of the Renfo!

You would be perfect in our Guild. It's all Red Guides members. We have something special right now. If you ever make toons on FV we are drafting you!

 

[RobRenfro]

Tank gear yes. Shmana gear - it's the wrong question. Im running about 10 teams now every combination imaginable. Anybody worried about shaman gear is picking the wrong topic. It's actually irrelevant. I can run a shaman naked with my tank and it works fine. Why? My tank has 10000+ ac with 2 hander and my shaman has max aa. Shaman gear is irrelevant outside of AEs hence the baseline. Anybody asking what gear is shaman is - is just wrong. Simple as that.

I appreciate your enthusiasm for Shaman healing. I honestly do. Sometimes between my brain and my mouth not everything I want to say comes out right or at all since the stroke. Let me try again. I gear the Shaman not to heal but to stay alive so he can heal. I play primarily in the wild, seldom in the safe confines of an instance. A mob can walk up and start whacking your Shaman for a hundred reasons. For me a healer s most important ability is survivability. To keep the group upright. Good gear goes a long way in that direction at any level.

As for whether people are wrong about asking what gear you have. Look I've been playing a Shaman since before there were AA in the game. I managed to heal just fine and keep my mana up with canni and Regen mostly. I just don't place the same value on AA you do. As for measuring toon dicks, who doesn't have at least 10k AC with a 2 Hander. All my tanks do. Shit including the 1 in NoS T1. You're picking the wrong hills to die on man. Hell my Shaman prolly have 10k AC with 2 Handers. And I'm nothing special. But I have geared 44 toons at last count. And I have played a Shaman for like 23 years.

 

[RobRenfro]

I think a lot of this has to do with who is asking the questions as well.

I’d argue 70% of players have zero clue about Eq mechanics/classes, 10% know enough to misunderstand and be dangerous, 15% of them can reference why xyz and <5% understand, test, data analyze and can fully do the optimization/maximization for a particular class themselves and not be dependent solely on abc guide says to do xyz.

Example 1: How many people do you think can tell you what the optimal Aug configuration for a warrior is given a unique static group configuration, gear set and additional parameters?

Example 2: How many people do you think understand what +20 SD actually does including a basic understanding of how SD functions, when it gets applied and how, and what that actually means for their dps.

Example 3: Before the recent change to battle leap how many people playing bers/wars hit Vehement rage anyways when it basically had a non parseable impact with large detriment.

Example 4: How many know why using Bst dicho is better optimization vs using any of the following versions of the line. I’m sure Sic can vouch for how many people would have ranted/posted/messaged why is mq2bst using dicho instead of the composite/dissident/ecliptic line if they had just hard coded what is in 99% of the cases the optimal strategy instead of making it a toggle.


loved seeing you bring up the melee vs caster groups here.

The answer is outside of increasing hp and mana pools type 5/7 augs do very little for casters/priests. After a certain point hp pool size becomes less relevant, increased mana pool only increases the time before needing to take a quick med break. The same cannot be said for melee dps or tanks.

If you use your type 7/8 Augs just to increase pool size you would be right. But I put my 7/8 Augs squarely into mana regen Augs and use my type 5 Augs to increase pool size. Maybe that's why I seem to have a better result with casters than most folks.