Splash Heals!!! Those wonderful INSTANT Heals a Shaman has plus the most lethal DoTs in the game. And with Canni they never run out of mana. If you want a Battle Rezzer and you don't have a click stick throw in a Necro in the group that leaves either 2 slots for DPS and 1 for CC or 3 DPS depending on what you're doing.
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Question - Do you know why SK and Shaman work better than SK and Cleric (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter RobRenfro
- Start date
I'm glad you had success where I couldn't.
its simply a differance of opinion. I know a lot of people that swear by their shammy sk combo.
I came back to the game with obsolete gear (of course), and SHM+CLR kept me alive while I bridged the level/ gear gap. I am surprised how good healers are shamans.
I made a choice though, retired the shaman and kept the cleric. I could have done the other way around and the team would work too...somehow, I am a cleric person.
Good discussion
I made a choice though, retired the shaman and kept the cleric. I could have done the other way around and the team would work too...somehow, I am a cleric person.
Good discussion
I’ve been running sk/shm/clr/mnk/rogue and bard recently, and have been happy with it (tlp).
You give up a bit on dps by having the second healer in group, but it just makes for a very comfortable situation. Cleric can concentrate on heals while the shaman can buff/debuff.
Certainly giving up a bit of dps, but I do like having the extra heals.
You give up a bit on dps by having the second healer in group, but it just makes for a very comfortable situation. Cleric can concentrate on heals while the shaman can buff/debuff.
Certainly giving up a bit of dps, but I do like having the extra heals.
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Maybe it would help if you think of Shaman slow as passive healing or HOT healing that you do not see numbers ticking up but it's there since your enemy attack speed is 75% slowed. That plus shaman has awesome buffs and debuffs that last a long time. Cleric is more simple to play because it's just shield buff and heal. Definitely less busy than a Shaman. But RobRenfo is right. With Canni, it's basically unlimited mana and one of the best dots in the game.
The difference between Shaman and Cleric is how fast they can cast heals.
Clerics have the fastest spam heals in the game and can keep them in rotation with out seriously dipping into their mana pool. This makes the super easy to box. If your cleric is well geared with specialization aug and mana return weapon, they basically run nearly forever, unless you are doing an event that has a mana drain.
The main benefit of the shaman is all the extra stuff they bring to the table. Assuming they heal "well enough" then you also get all the extra stuff. The cost is you need a script/plugin/whatever that does all the extra stuff.
Clerics have the fastest spam heals in the game and can keep them in rotation with out seriously dipping into their mana pool. This makes the super easy to box. If your cleric is well geared with specialization aug and mana return weapon, they basically run nearly forever, unless you are doing an event that has a mana drain.
The main benefit of the shaman is all the extra stuff they bring to the table. Assuming they heal "well enough" then you also get all the extra stuff. The cost is you need a script/plugin/whatever that does all the extra stuff.
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The downside at topend is that group content doesn't live long enough for any of the shaman's fancy dots to matter, or even tick more than once. OTOH clerics blow shaman healing out of the water and let you mass pull 3x as many group mobs at a time. My real dps classes getting to aoe everything > shaman dots. Being able to lazily plow group content by just blundering along and killing whatever hordes aggro > shaman dots. My shaman is relegated to melee raid group healer while I never leave home without the cleric.
I switched to my shaman for healing yesterday and have not died since. The slow makes a huge difference. I even have plenty of time to drop a couple dots. The cleric battle res with 100 percent is good, but if you don't die it makes no difference.
My shaman can easily heal double and triple pulls (AOE slows are awesome). It is true that the dots are pretty much useless, as a person who started with a shaman from the early day of the original Kunark, I really hate that they have turned shaman into pure healers now.
That's crazy, I see sham healing and doing 600k to 800k dps. Especially if the group's overall dps is a lil low, those dots can really add up.
have used both shd/clr and shd/shm . it comes down to time to kill , with the cleric you prolly won't die but you get little dps or adps from the cleric, with the shaman you'll get more dps and might have to lean on taps on the shd but you'll kill overall faster.
I'd have to echo that my cleric healer is far more effective than my shaman. But the shaman brings debuffs and Adps where my cleric just brute force heals through stuff.
The one gray area is if stuff is being slowed either with a tank belt or lethargy line. If shamans are getting things slowed while still healing but the cleric is just plowing through mobs that arent debuffed, it could skew the results a bit.
The one gray area is if stuff is being slowed either with a tank belt or lethargy line. If shamans are getting things slowed while still healing but the cleric is just plowing through mobs that arent debuffed, it could skew the results a bit.
At some point, with gear, it kind of stops mattering. My SK can do HF mission, with no slower, no slow belt, and a druid as the only priest. That doesn't make the druid better than the shaman, or better than the cleric. It just showcases the reality that this game can be experienced dramatically differently based on the content you're doing, and the gear and aa levels you're doing it with.
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then you're doing something wrong because they can heal a full group being the only priest
I love noobs that don't fully appreciate clerics...more camps, mobs, and loot for me.
Tank/Bard/Enc/Cleric + 2 dps for life yo!
I also love noobs who try to train me...free pulls! yay!
I love noobs that don't fully appreciate clerics...more camps, mobs, and loot for me.
Tank/Bard/Enc/Cleric + 2 dps for life yo!
I also love noobs who try to train me...free pulls! yay!
Aggressive, I'll take 5-7 pulls all day long and burn down mobs far faster with - tank, brd, bst, shm - two real dps which means rogues or monks. LS mobs only last 12 seconds when grinding....
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I second this. This is part of my main group. SK, CLR, SHM, RNG, BST, BRD killer combo and i never run out of mana.
Between SK, BRD, BST mana regen abilities, its pretty solid.
@Naeeldar meh...dps isn't really a problem once everyone has their aa's, armor, and clickies. I've parsed it both ways and clerics are just amazing in all circumstances, groups, raid, whatevs...
Shaman's have their place in the guild hall buffing...same as Pallies...on the bench watching or on the floor dead...lol
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Shaman and Cleric are just fundamentally different. There are areas of the game where the Shaman really struggles as a solo healer (80ish range of levels) and the cleric really shines.
High end the shaman is on par or better healer than a cleric and has a multitude of other beneficial traits that a cleric simply cannot accomplish. The DPS and ADPS of a shaman over a cleric are night and day. If you're able to shaman then shaman certainly has it's benefits over a cleric. Cleric does have their own benefits but certainly doesn't provide the ADPS or DPS that the shaman does while also being a main healer.
I still prefer my cleric over the shaman. But that's just me. Sic prefers the shaman over the cleric.
High end the shaman is on par or better healer than a cleric and has a multitude of other beneficial traits that a cleric simply cannot accomplish. The DPS and ADPS of a shaman over a cleric are night and day. If you're able to shaman then shaman certainly has it's benefits over a cleric. Cleric does have their own benefits but certainly doesn't provide the ADPS or DPS that the shaman does while also being a main healer.
I still prefer my cleric over the shaman. But that's just me. Sic prefers the shaman over the cleric.
So my main was a Mage for years ,
I raided from around 2001ish my wife used watch me and one day says she wanted to play and made a shammy , For next 15 years we duoed later adding a bard, She even was convinced to raid for a while being the healer and ADPS in the melee group she was assigned,
She saved my ass a lot when we played , We used to Use VP and CoH to split pulls not the most efficient way but it worked, So when she quit and i started a little group i never thought of using any other healer just used to having a shammy have my back
I raided from around 2001ish my wife used watch me and one day says she wanted to play and made a shammy , For next 15 years we duoed later adding a bard, She even was convinced to raid for a while being the healer and ADPS in the melee group she was assigned,
She saved my ass a lot when we played , We used to Use VP and CoH to split pulls not the most efficient way but it worked, So when she quit and i started a little group i never thought of using any other healer just used to having a shammy have my back
Some folks absolutely nailed it. Cleric and Shaman perform differently in different eras of the game in group content.
As an SK/SHM backbone myself, i've tried using a cleric and they do alright in groups. Up to the 60s/70s or so (tlp land) a cleric is probably "better" in terms of raw healing, and the shaman doesn't have as many tools to support a tank unless they are conservatively pull/tank one mob at a time. Shaman start getting their renewal and recourse lines in the 80s or 90s and keeping those at 100% uptime makes a huge difference, plus at 115 (tbl era) wen they have 90% uptime of dissident, there is a lot of rolling passive healing happening tog ive the shaman rbeathing room to slow, dot, take a nap, whatever. the 90-100+ game, shamans have so many tools for passive rolling heals, plus near instant patches (reckless, union, vp click stick, intervention x2..) they can solidly offer a lot to a group.
I also keep a pocket druid that i've wanted to replace for another dps, because in all of my parsing while the SK and SHM account for 80-85% of all group healing, that 15% the druid does has been crucial insurvivability for my playstyle. But that's because I do not believe in CC and pull 4-10+ current er amobs at once and just rip through. the shaman shows some weakness there as a sole healer/slower trying to keep a tank alive with that much damage incoming and trying to slow everything. the druid patching there makes it survivable, and a cleric main with sham heals might be a better solution in all honesty.
it boils down to playstyle, competence, and the era, IMO
As an SK/SHM backbone myself, i've tried using a cleric and they do alright in groups. Up to the 60s/70s or so (tlp land) a cleric is probably "better" in terms of raw healing, and the shaman doesn't have as many tools to support a tank unless they are conservatively pull/tank one mob at a time. Shaman start getting their renewal and recourse lines in the 80s or 90s and keeping those at 100% uptime makes a huge difference, plus at 115 (tbl era) wen they have 90% uptime of dissident, there is a lot of rolling passive healing happening tog ive the shaman rbeathing room to slow, dot, take a nap, whatever. the 90-100+ game, shamans have so many tools for passive rolling heals, plus near instant patches (reckless, union, vp click stick, intervention x2..) they can solidly offer a lot to a group.
I also keep a pocket druid that i've wanted to replace for another dps, because in all of my parsing while the SK and SHM account for 80-85% of all group healing, that 15% the druid does has been crucial insurvivability for my playstyle. But that's because I do not believe in CC and pull 4-10+ current er amobs at once and just rip through. the shaman shows some weakness there as a sole healer/slower trying to keep a tank alive with that much damage incoming and trying to slow everything. the druid patching there makes it survivable, and a cleric main with sham heals might be a better solution in all honesty.
it boils down to playstyle, competence, and the era, IMO
I think the essence of the combo IS the slow of shaman, because in years the shaman won a lot of healing spells and the cleric dont have any slot to make the difference in combat.The cleric have more powerful heals but the shaman too and renewals and the slow make the difference. At start of Eq the shammy heals but a lot lot lesson than the cleric