Raid - Cheap EQ hardware gems (1 Viewer)

[Silverspaceman]

Like the rest of you, EQ has been granted a reprieve from the scrap pile of time in my life by MQ and Redguides. Running a group alleviates the old problem of LFG for hours, waiting around for my poor wiz to get an invite somewhere to do something other than root+nuking frogs in POStorms.

Moving from EQ to MQ+EQ was eye opening like meeting the wizard behind the curtain. There is a magic deeper still. What if you played with yourself even more than you do now? Get your mind out of the gutter - I'm talking about raiding on your own or maybe with a couple friends.

Unfortunately, I'm at a point in life where dreams die along with the youthful distance between now and my own inevitable cessation, so I don't ever see myself being able to learn how to solo raid. However, I know there are many of you who have time and drive to learn stuff like that. Primary systems built for playing the latest and greatest, whether this year's or 2016's, aren't built with the same requirements in mind as EQ multiboxing - high core / thread count & loads of RAM (~1.1GB/instance) or maybe EQ was the only video game you ever enjoyed. Perhaps, like me, playing EQ on your main system just feels wrong. So rather than building around a new 13900 Intel or 6950 gen AMD Ryzen system with 128GB of pricey, high-end DDR4 or DDR5, and sacrificing this year's ribeye budget, is there another option?

Well hello there, HP Z440; don't you appear to occupy a sweet spot at this moment in time for this very niche purpose.

• Barebones or minimally loaded tower @ $80 - $120
• Cheap DDR4 ECC RAM @ ~$1.10/GB (documented support is for 16GB modules 2133 or 2400 MHz) - 128GB max on this motherboard; 4x32GB modules will cost less than 8x16GB
• Cheap, high core-count CPUs (16C/32T E5-2683 v4 @ $25)

The HP Z440 system accepts a wide range of E5 v3 & v4 Broadwell-era Xeon processors from 4c/8t to 22c/44t (fewer than 8c/16t and more than 18c/36t, I'd make a different choice). If loading up a 7-9 group raid sounds like fun, here's what that might look like on your wallet:

HP Z440 bare bones $97
QVL listed 2400Mhz DDR4 x 96GB $108 (note; if you're patient, you can pick up 32GB modules at $25/ea. and nail 128GB @ $100)
Xeon E5-2683 v4 16c/32t $24
Total: $229

Throw in storage, an old GPU, keyboard, mouse, and monitor, which most of us have laying around, and you can probably get by with a sub $250 system that will run more accounts than most of us have the ability to attend to - excluding your storage, GPU, keyboard, mouse, and monitor options. For disclosure, I am not sure what the upper limit on this system would be as I don't even have enough accounts to stress mine out (5 groups). You most assuredly could keep up with the RAM requirements (system's official support is 8x16GB modules, but you can run 4x32GB - I used memory.net to find compatible modules and then eBay to buy), so the CPU lag would be my only question in regards to how many cores/threads you'd want to reach for. If I can manage to make 54 accounts, I'll load everyone up and report back. Also, if you have more than 4 RAM (or any 32GB) modules installed, there's a sensor that throws an error w/o the RAM shroud/fan cooling solution, but this can simply be cleared and booting continued.

If you wanted to go really crazy, you could step up to the HP Z840, which is a dual-CPU upgrade. The chasis/psu/motherboard will run you 2x the Z440's cost, but a dual 12c/24t CPU set would set you back a whopping ~$25 @ 210w TDP (dual E5-2650v4), which would be fun and still gives you room to move up to dual 16c/32t or higher.

Now for those of you who are happy to run one group of characters, but maybe your system is on its last legs and cash is tight, take a look at the HP Elitedesk 705 G4 mini or SFF. The CPU option you'd want to look for is the 2400GE or 2400G, both 4c/8t processors with a decent (for an APU) Vega 11 APU, which is relatively modern. The mini version is more expensive than the SFF versions, but you can still pick up a box with the 2400G, 16GB RAM for under $150. The biggest attraction, IMO, is the mini 1L system is 1) easy on the eyes = higher likelihood of spouse accepting it in the living space, and 2) easy to keep out of the way (heck, you can mount it behind your monitor). I've had many a guildy over the years take extended breaks due to a computer breakdown; at least this replacement/backup is easier on the wallet than most. The Elitedesk 800, Prodesk 600 and other brands' mini and SFF systems come with similar CPU options, though the VEGA APU is much better than comparable Intel onboard graphics. Many of the Intel options in the 8th and 9th generation are 6c/6t, but some are 4/4. You have to be a bit more careful picking those out as the 64-bit upgrade left those 4/4 CPUs stuttering worse than me in 6th-grade being asked to read in front of the class.

Critiques? Opinions? Should I delete this post in shame at my lack of technical knowledge? I hope it helps someone out or at least drives some curiosity or maybe saves someone some money. If anyone knows of similar horsepower & RAM available in a much smaller form factor, I'm all ears!

 

[Doc James]

What if you played with yourself even more than you do now?

Impossible. I am like Al Bundy over here....

 

[an_image]

Like the rest of you, EQ has been granted a reprieve from the scrap pile of time in my life by MQ and Redguides. Running a group alleviates the old problem of LFG for hours, waiting around for my poor wiz to get an invite somewhere to do something other than root+nuking frogs in POStorms.

Moving from EQ to MQ+EQ was eye opening like meeting the wizard behind the curtain. There is a magic deeper still. What if you played with yourself even more than you do now? Get your mind out of the gutter - I'm talking about raiding on your own or maybe with a couple friends.

Unfortunately, I'm at a point in life where dreams die along with the youthful distance between now and my own inevitable cessation, so I don't ever see myself being able to learn how to solo raid. However, I know there are many of you who have time and drive to learn stuff like that. Primary systems built for playing the latest and greatest, whether this year's or 2016's, aren't built with the same requirements in mind as EQ multiboxing - high core / thread count & loads of RAM (~1.1GB/instance) or maybe EQ was the only video game you ever enjoyed. Perhaps, like me, playing EQ on your main system just feels wrong. So rather than building around a new 13900 Intel or 6950 gen AMD Ryzen system with 128GB of pricey, high-end DDR4 or DDR5, and sacrificing this year's ribeye budget, is there another option?

Well hello there, HP Z440; don't you appear to occupy a sweet spot at this moment in time for this very niche purpose.

• Barebones or minimally loaded tower @ $80 - $120
• Cheap DDR4 ECC RAM @ ~$1.10/GB (documented support is for 16GB modules 2133 or 2400 MHz)
• Cheap, high core-count CPUs (16C/32T E5-2683 v4 @ $25)

The HP Z440 system accepts a wide range of E5 v3 & v4 Broadwell-era Xeon processors from 4c/8t to 22c/44t (fewer than 8c/16t and more than 18c/36t, I'd make a different choice). If loading up a 7-9 group raid sounds like fun, here's what that might look like on your wallet:

HP Z440 bare bones $97
QVL listed 2400Mhz DDR4 x 96GB $108
Xeon E5-2683 v4 16c/32t $24
Total: $229

Throw in storage, a GPU, keyboard, mouse, and monitor, which most of us have laying around, and you probably paid about $250, but definitely less than $300, after tax, for a raid box - excluding your storage, GPU, keyboard, mouse, and monitor options. For disclosure, I am not sure what the upper limit on this system would be as I don't even have enough accounts to stress mine out (5 groups).

Now for those of you who are happy to run one group of characters, but maybe your system is on its last legs and cash is tight, take a look at the HP Elitedesk 705 G4 mini or SFF. The CPU option you'd want to look for is the 2400GE or 2400G, both 4c/8t processors with a decent (for an APU) Vega 11 APU. The mini version is more expensive than the SFF versions, but you can still pick up a box with the 2400G, 16GB RAM for under $150. The biggest attraction, IMO, is the mini 1L system is 1) easy on the eyes = higher likelihood of spouse accepting it in the living space, and 2) easy to keep out of the way (heck, you can mount it behind your monitor). I've had many a guildy over the years take extended breaks due to a computer breakdown; at least this replacement/backup is easier on the wallet than most. The Elitedesk 800, Prodesk 600 and other brands' mini and SFF systems come with similar CPU options, though the VEGA APU is much better than comparable Intel onboard graphics. Many of the Intel options in the 8th and 9th generation are 6c/6t, but some are 4/4. You have to be a bit more careful picking those out as the 64-bit upgrade left those 4/4 CPUs stuttering worse than my shy, 6th-grade self being asked to read in front of the class.

Critiques? Opinions? Should I delete this post in shame at my lack of technical knowledge? I hope it helps someone out or at least drives some curiosity or maybe saves someone some money. If anyone knows of similar horsepower & RAM available in a much smaller form factor, I'm all ears!

@Silverspaceman ... "There is a magic deeper still. What if you played with yourself even more than you do now?"

<Son asks> What you doing dad...
<@Silverspaceman> Uh nothing...hardware ... bits ... memory ... you know ...

 

[Vrakenor]

Silverspaceman

Great post. Would you be able to supply a little more information please? Like where do you shop for these? HP Store? Google it? But either way thanks for the info.

Vrak

 

[an_image]

Like the rest of you, EQ has been granted a reprieve from the scrap pile of time in my life by MQ and Redguides. Running a group alleviates the old problem of LFG for hours, waiting around for my poor wiz to get an invite somewhere to do something other than root+nuking frogs in POStorms.

Moving from EQ to MQ+EQ was eye opening like meeting the wizard behind the curtain. There is a magic deeper still. What if you played with yourself even more than you do now? Get your mind out of the gutter - I'm talking about raiding on your own or maybe with a couple friends.

Unfortunately, I'm at a point in life where dreams die along with the youthful distance between now and my own inevitable cessation, so I don't ever see myself being able to learn how to solo raid. However, I know there are many of you who have time and drive to learn stuff like that. Primary systems built for playing the latest and greatest, whether this year's or 2016's, aren't built with the same requirements in mind as EQ multiboxing - high core / thread count & loads of RAM (~1.1GB/instance) or maybe EQ was the only video game you ever enjoyed. Perhaps, like me, playing EQ on your main system just feels wrong. So rather than building around a new 13900 Intel or 6950 gen AMD Ryzen system with 128GB of pricey, high-end DDR4 or DDR5, and sacrificing this year's ribeye budget, is there another option?

Well hello there, HP Z440; don't you appear to occupy a sweet spot at this moment in time for this very niche purpose.

• Barebones or minimally loaded tower @ $80 - $120
• Cheap DDR4 ECC RAM @ ~$1.10/GB (documented support is for 16GB modules 2133 or 2400 MHz)
• Cheap, high core-count CPUs (16C/32T E5-2683 v4 @ $25)

The HP Z440 system accepts a wide range of E5 v3 & v4 Broadwell-era Xeon processors from 4c/8t to 22c/44t (fewer than 8c/16t and more than 18c/36t, I'd make a different choice). If loading up a 7-9 group raid sounds like fun, here's what that might look like on your wallet:

HP Z440 bare bones $97
QVL listed 2400Mhz DDR4 x 96GB $108
Xeon E5-2683 v4 16c/32t $24
Total: $229

Throw in storage, a GPU, keyboard, mouse, and monitor, which most of us have laying around, and you probably paid about $250, but definitely less than $300, after tax, for a raid box - excluding your storage, GPU, keyboard, mouse, and monitor options. For disclosure, I am not sure what the upper limit on this system would be as I don't even have enough accounts to stress mine out (5 groups).

Now for those of you who are happy to run one group of characters, but maybe your system is on its last legs and cash is tight, take a look at the HP Elitedesk 705 G4 mini or SFF. The CPU option you'd want to look for is the 2400GE or 2400G, both 4c/8t processors with a decent (for an APU) Vega 11 APU. The mini version is more expensive than the SFF versions, but you can still pick up a box with the 2400G, 16GB RAM for under $150. The biggest attraction, IMO, is the mini 1L system is 1) easy on the eyes = higher likelihood of spouse accepting it in the living space, and 2) easy to keep out of the way (heck, you can mount it behind your monitor). I've had many a guildy over the years take extended breaks due to a computer breakdown; at least this replacement/backup is easier on the wallet than most. The Elitedesk 800, Prodesk 600 and other brands' mini and SFF systems come with similar CPU options, though the VEGA APU is much better than comparable Intel onboard graphics. Many of the Intel options in the 8th and 9th generation are 6c/6t, but some are 4/4. You have to be a bit more careful picking those out as the 64-bit upgrade left those 4/4 CPUs stuttering worse than my shy, 6th-grade self being asked to read in front of the class.

Critiques? Opinions? Should I delete this post in shame at my lack of technical knowledge? I hope it helps someone out or at least drives some curiosity or maybe saves someone some money. If anyone knows of similar horsepower & RAM available in a much smaller form factor, I'm all ears!

On a more serious notes...laptops are the way to go. My main farmbox is a lenovo t420 that's running 20+ chars on a docking station. Got it for free from an old employer like 10 years ago, maxed the ram and changed the HD (doesn't even have a graphics card). It's dual core...runs a little hot but who cares all i have is 30 bucks into it and came with the docking station.

Main rig is a lenovo Legion...got it like 2 years ago on clearance...has a decent graphics card, intelcore 5, like 8 cores?, 16 GB ram...sitting on a cooling pad...runs 40 without breaking a sweat (granted clip plane, detail level, and all spell effects are off on everything but my main tank boxes)

All in all less than $500 all in...running 60+

 

[Gaelicboy]

I would also suggest people look at the Ace Magician line of low cost "gaming" pc's if you are interested. Under 400 bucks for the AMR5 and you should be able to run 6 toons at least with ease.

 

[Silverspaceman]

Silverspaceman

Great post. Would you be able to supply a little more information please? Like where do you shop for these? HP Store? Google it? But either way thanks for the info.

Vrak

These are older workstation systems that would have been marketed towards larger enterprises. If you're already in the IT field or at a business that tosses old gear, you might be able to nab something way cheaper than eBay (or free), but eBay is my go-to for old enterprise stuff. Much of it's sold off lease and parts are pretty cheap (after this generation, hardware gets much more expensive - still want an Epyc build, but it's out of my price range). It should all have been tested and at least backed by eBay's buyer guarantees, so you can get it and make sure everything works almost risk-free.

I linked some nicely-priced current auctions for the HP Z440 workstation (the RAM in the link is on the QVL list). For finding memory, I use e-recycler sites that have QVL listings for the memory, but sell at 2x eBay prices and look through eBay for the part#. I stuck with the 2400Mhz, 16GB modules when buying mine. If you're patient about that part in particular, you'll frequently find relevant DIMMs at $23-25, but sometimes you will find auctions for 2x @ $32 or individual sticks at lower prices (for example, the $18/ea. price there). Like anything else on eBay, the hunt is half the fun. Follow up note on this - I picked up some 32GB DIMMS for $25/ea. and ended up maxing out system memory (128GB) on 4 of those. Market prices fluctuate. A week after I had several options at $25/DIMM, I am seeing them at $35/DIMM.

The little Elitedesk minis and similar USFF systems from Dell, Lenovo, and Fujitsu, are available on eBay as well. Servethehome has a few articles on their site and videos on YT going over those systems. They are great for home networking projects on x86 architecture and, if you were so inclined, you could use them as a main EQ system if your goal was a group or two without shelling out for either a new system or a low-end laptop.

There are much more capable and modern mini systems by Minisforum or Beelink available on Amazon at prices from ~350-500 that will get you current or last gen APUs that will run circles around the USFF mini systems for a handful of groups.

 

[Silverspaceman]

On a more serious notes...laptops are the way to go. My main farmbox is a lenovo t420 that's running 20+ chars on a docking station. Got it for free from an old employer like 10 years ago, maxed the ram and changed the HD (doesn't even have a graphics card). It's dual core...runs a little hot but who cares all i have is 30 bucks into it and came with the docking station.

Main rig is a lenovo Legion...got it like 2 years ago on clearance...has a decent graphics card, intelcore 5, like 8 cores?, 16 GB ram...sitting on a cooling pad...runs 40 without breaking a sweat (granted clip plane, detail level, and all spell effects are off on everything but my main tank boxes)

All in all less than $500 all in...running 60+

That's really impressive efficiency! I am surprised you can run that many on 16GB of RAM since I can't get my instances down below 1.1GB ea. I do the same thing with gimpy graphics on non-tank instances.

 

[an_image]

That's really impressive efficiency! I am surprised you can run that many on 16GB of RAM since I can't get my instances down below 1.1GB ea. I do the same thing with gimpy graphics on non-tank instances.

Old graphic models, kill clip plane down to zero on everything but pullers, kill all level of detail, spell effects, and turn on framelimiter.

Pop a $5-10 amazon cooling stand under them off the USB ...I like the KLIM ones...it's basically a flat box fan with cool LED lighting effects. Note...don't plug the USB for the cooling pad into the laptop, get an actual USB HUB and plug it into that to minimize draw off of your laptop

There's also something about setting cores to -1 which made a huge difference on all instances.

Minimize zoning...everyone not engaged (melee) something should be facing the wall (caster's/clerics/enc)...kill sky and water effects back to regular.

/hidecorpse alwaysnpc (thanks @Sic)...all those corpses laying around on farmbots suck a ton of processing

Don't open the map windows (with every named tag) unless you absolutely have to...

 

[Naturesong]

Like the rest of you, EQ has been granted a reprieve from the scrap pile of time in my life by MQ and Redguides. Running a group alleviates the old problem of LFG for hours, waiting around for my poor wiz to get an invite somewhere to do something other than root+nuking frogs in POStorms.

Moving from EQ to MQ+EQ was eye opening like meeting the wizard behind the curtain. There is a magic deeper still. What if you played with yourself even more than you do now? Get your mind out of the gutter - I'm talking about raiding on your own or maybe with a couple friends.

Unfortunately, I'm at a point in life where dreams die along with the youthful distance between now and my own inevitable cessation, so I don't ever see myself being able to learn how to solo raid. However, I know there are many of you who have time and drive to learn stuff like that. Primary systems built for playing the latest and greatest, whether this year's or 2016's, aren't built with the same requirements in mind as EQ multiboxing - high core / thread count & loads of RAM (~1.1GB/instance) or maybe EQ was the only video game you ever enjoyed. Perhaps, like me, playing EQ on your main system just feels wrong. So rather than building around a new 13900 Intel or 6950 gen AMD Ryzen system with 128GB of pricey, high-end DDR4 or DDR5, and sacrificing this year's ribeye budget, is there another option?

Well hello there, HP Z440; don't you appear to occupy a sweet spot at this moment in time for this very niche purpose.

• Barebones or minimally loaded tower @ $80 - $120
• Cheap DDR4 ECC RAM @ ~$1.10/GB (documented support is for 16GB modules 2133 or 2400 MHz)
• Cheap, high core-count CPUs (16C/32T E5-2683 v4 @ $25)

The HP Z440 system accepts a wide range of E5 v3 & v4 Broadwell-era Xeon processors from 4c/8t to 22c/44t (fewer than 8c/16t and more than 18c/36t, I'd make a different choice). If loading up a 7-9 group raid sounds like fun, here's what that might look like on your wallet:

HP Z440 bare bones $97
QVL listed 2400Mhz DDR4 x 96GB $108
Xeon E5-2683 v4 16c/32t $24
Total: $229

Throw in storage, a GPU, keyboard, mouse, and monitor, which most of us have laying around, and you probably paid about $250, but definitely less than $300, after tax, for a raid box - excluding your storage, GPU, keyboard, mouse, and monitor options. For disclosure, I am not sure what the upper limit on this system would be as I don't even have enough accounts to stress mine out (5 groups). You most assuredly could keep up with the RAM requirements (system's official support is 8x16GB modules), so the CPU lag would be my only question in regards to how many cores/threads you'd want to reach for. If I can manage to make 54 accounts, I'll load everyone up and report back. Also, if you have more than 4 RAM modules installed, there's a sensor that requires the RAM shroud & fan, but you can clear the error on boot up and go along your merry way.

Now for those of you who are happy to run one group of characters, but maybe your system is on its last legs and cash is tight, take a look at the HP Elitedesk 705 G4 mini or SFF. The CPU option you'd want to look for is the 2400GE or 2400G, both 4c/8t processors with a decent (for an APU) Vega 11 APU. The mini version is more expensive than the SFF versions, but you can still pick up a box with the 2400G, 16GB RAM for under $150. The biggest attraction, IMO, is the mini 1L system is 1) easy on the eyes = higher likelihood of spouse accepting it in the living space, and 2) easy to keep out of the way (heck, you can mount it behind your monitor). I've had many a guildy over the years take extended breaks due to a computer breakdown; at least this replacement/backup is easier on the wallet than most. The Elitedesk 800, Prodesk 600 and other brands' mini and SFF systems come with similar CPU options, though the VEGA APU is much better than comparable Intel onboard graphics. Many of the Intel options in the 8th and 9th generation are 6c/6t, but some are 4/4. You have to be a bit more careful picking those out as the 64-bit upgrade left those 4/4 CPUs stuttering worse than my shy, 6th-grade self being asked to read in front of the class.

Critiques? Opinions? Should I delete this post in shame at my lack of technical knowledge? I hope it helps someone out or at least drives some curiosity or maybe saves someone some money. If anyone knows of similar horsepower & RAM available in a much smaller form factor, I'm all ears!

Yup, those old HP small business servers are great for this kind of job.

The Elitedesk stuff won't be as good.
The mini versions of these run laptop memory, CPUs and onboard graphics, but with slightly better cooling than a laptop - this is not a great option but should run a couple of groups fine.
If you can get a proper box rather than the mini, you'll have more scope for upgrading parts, larger power supply, proper graphics card and better heat control.

 

[Silverspaceman]

[...] The mini versions of these run laptop memory, CPUs and onboard graphics, but with slightly better cooling than a laptop - this is not a great option but should run a couple of groups fine.

The inclusion of that was just a super-cheap option for MQEQers looking to run 1-2 groups rather than a full raid group. I don't think that most EQers would consider the availability of such a system in that use case when looking to replace a busted system. I've had a lot of guildies over the years disappear because money was tight and their primary system pooped out on them, but they didn't know why and were thinking a replacement was going to be a few hundred bucks. Most the people I chat with in EQ these days seem to be retirement age, on fixed income, and run 1-group worth of characters, so I am hoping that info would benefit that demographic.

 

[Naturesong]

The inclusion of that was just a super-cheap option for MQEQers looking to run 1-2 groups rather than a full raid group. I don't think that most EQers would consider the availability of such a system in that use case when looking to replace a busted system. I've had a lot of guildies over the years disappear because money was tight and their primary system pooped out on them, but they didn't know why and were thinking a replacement was going to be a few hundred bucks. Most the people I chat with in EQ these days seem to be retirement age, on fixed income, and run 1-group worth of characters.

Yup, I remember when these came out. I was doing automated builds for a medium size enterprise running about 15,000 workstations of all flavours. We we're doing a major hardware refresh and these mini's were a godsend, so great as general purpose workstations. Huge fan.

 

[Silverspaceman]

They're great as project boxes for stuff - low price & low power & space consumption! I have one I'm setting up for FileCloud and just ordered one of the 705 G4 (with the Ryzen 5 PRO 2400G) to install Batocera on so my kids can enjoy some emulated goodness. I'll probably end up with at least one more as another project toy. At $100-150, they're a steal.