Tip - Breather, Respite, & KA

[Harashil]

I've been struggling for a WHILE to get KA to use the Breather disc line. Wouldn't trigger when another disc was running, when chain pulling, or regularly ... even beyond those conditions. I know at least one other user has asked in KA and MA for advice to solve this, to no avail. MQ2Melee was the only way. I find MQ2Melee very inconvenient. It's configured super annoying out of the box. Hell, I still can't get it to stop randomly activating, despite unloading the plugin hundreds of times and toggling it off in my ini's. I digress ...

This solved my issue:
DPS1=Breather|99|Ambush

Also, can anyone show me that the Relax line yeilds a better outcome than Breather somehow? Breather was replaced by Relax at lvl 106. Relax seems to have a major disadvantage over Breather: slowing the character for 48 seconds.

 

[Sic]

I've been struggling for a WHILE to get KA to use the Breather disc line. Wouldn't trigger when another disc was running, when chain pulling, or regularly ... even beyond those conditions. I know at least one other user has asked in KA and MA for advice to solve this, to no avail. MQ2Melee was the only way. I find MQ2Melee very inconvenient. It's configured super annoying out of the box. Hell, I still can't get it to stop randomly activating, despite unloading the plugin hundreds of times and toggling it off in my ini's. I digress ...

This solved my issue:
DPS1=Breather|99|Ambush

Can anyone show me that the Relax line yeilds a better outcome than Breather somehow? Breather was replaced by Relax at lvl 106. Relax seems to have a major disadvantage over Breather: slowing the character for 48 seconds.

you should put this in your buffs section and not in your dps section

relax+ you can use in combat, which might be useful after a rez, but breather is kinda the go-to for regular usage.

you can use the end tag for usage

Buffs1=Breather|End|24

 

[Harashil]

you should put this in your buffs section and not in your dps section

relax+ you can use in combat, which might be useful after a rez, but breather is kinda the go-to for regular usage.

Yeah, it totally does not work right in the buffs section. In fact, it does all the things I listed. You can search some previous discussions on these issues and attempts to solve them. The only solution was MQ2Melee.

 

[Sic]

Yeah, it totally does not work right in the buffs section. In fact, it does all the things I listed. You can search some previous discussions on these issues and attempts to solve them. The only solution was MQ2Melee.

Just fired up my warrior with my cov ini and got low on endurance intentionally - and as soon as out of combat casted breather and started medding

 

[Hylander]

It works like Sic said. 29% for Rk III. One of the few reasons to visit old TBM raids

 

[Harashil]

Just fired up my warrior with my cov ini and got low on endurance intentionally - and as soon as out of combat casted breather and started medding

View attachment 28286

Friends, I have been testing this for a year+ across many thousands of fights. I can tell you as a fact it does not activate reliably on a ROG. Same problem on a BER. I listed some factors that cause it to fail. Feel free to test those.
eg.
- Were you chain pulling?
- Were you running another disc at the time? Rogues are almost constantly running a disc. Dropping it would be a dps loss.
I'm not sure a few minutes on a WAR negates my results.
Also, It is undesireable to have melees take a break to med. That's the point of the disc ... to avoid that. To avoid downtime / having to go OOC. The WAR ran out, case in point.

Here is one example of other discussion on this issue: https://www.redguides.com/community/threads/breather.75262/
Likewise, it doesn't fire right if hidden: https://www.redguides.com/community...-breather-out-of-combat-even-if-hidden.68508/

The best fix to date: Breather in the dps section as an ambush. It's the simplest and most effective solution.
I wish it wasn't. Even that isn't totally optimized to keep END topped up, but it's been more than enough to keep ROG from running out.
You can also use MQ2Melee to solve this, but it drives me nuts.

 

[Sic]

K, well u failed to mention it was specifically while hidden, but yah buffs happen during downtime, so there's that also.

When you said you've tried it hundreds of times and then it instantly worked as expected for me based on what info you provided... dunno what to tell you.

 

[Harashil]

K, well u failed to mention it was specifically while hidden, but yah buffs happen during downtime, so there's that also.

When you said you've tried it hundreds of times and then it instantly worked as expected for me based on what info you provided... dunno what to tell you.

It's not specifically / only while hidden. You seem to be skipping past half the info I provide. Please read through my whole posts and the previous discussions on the problem.

You made a quick test that wasn't hugely relevant to what I described, claiming there was no problem. Breather going off in one minorly-related case does not show it works correctly at large. I dunno how else to reply to that.
There is in fact a malfunction and I posted a solution. It's that simple.

The malfunction is that a utility to stop down-time / dps loss from running out of END does not work reliably across classes in KA. KA doesn't let you use it many times it is available. Looks like you may have inadvertantly demonstrated it with your quick WAR test. Why didn't Breather trigger before he had to stop and med at 2% END? If you just dumped END then turned on KA ... you didn't really test what I described. I didn't claim Breather NEVER goes off. Just that it doesn't activate many times it can and 'should'.

Again, I am just posting a tip with a very easy and effective solution to a long-term problem.

 

[kaen01]

Buffs1=Breather|End|15

and you golden, end tag runs in both combat and outside of combat, and i have used this on multiple melee toons since forever, and it works. i dont know what your are doing to it to make it not work, however that said, i dont use mq2melee, and its the first thing i turn off in in my kiss inis.

if your war takes a med break, change your medstart setting. and wars will run out of energy, just a fact.

 

[kaen01]

hmm you linking to muleassist thread, muleassist and kissassist is not the same thing, and the issue with combat abilities using activedisc checks was fixed in kissassist long time ago, but probably wasnt done in muleassist, until recently

 

[kaen01]

also if your tank is the puller check out the new features of kiss12 that allows you to set a pull condition, so you could have a condition checking your endurance and and breather readyness, and then puase until breather is fired in buff, and then bam go happy pulling.

 

[Harashil]

Buffs1=Breather|End|15

and you golden, end tag runs in both combat and outside of combat, and i have used this on multiple melee toons since forever, and it works. i dont know what your are doing to it to make it not work, however that said, i dont use mq2melee, and its the first thing i turn off in in my kiss inis.

if your war takes a med break, change your medstart setting. and wars will run out of energy, just a fact.

This is kinda like running in circles ... here we are back at the beginning.

Your chars don't run out of END when fighting long enough without downtime? You get breather to trigger in KA when other discs are running? Likewise when chain pulling and not leaving combat? When hidden as a ROG? From the buffs section? I'd have to see that for sure. Other posts say that's not possible (did you check those out?), and match up with my experience. Breather is available to use in all of those cases though. It doesn't trigger from the buffs section many times when it is actually available in game, and chars can run low. Thus putting it in the dps section. It's probably not something crazy I'm doing. Don't even know what I could do inside an ini to make the buff line that's getting quoted not work.

Anyone that claims this works for them, feel free to provide a ROG or BER ini. I will test it out. I bet your chars are taking breaks, running out of END, or fighting slow enough / short enough that you never notice. Especially if they are a ROG.

When breather is working right, eg a char playing manually, I never run out. Breather is enough to essentially have unlimited end on both ROG and BER. Are you saying that WAR can burn through END faster than that kaen?

 

[Harashil]

hmm you linking to muleassist thread, muleassist and kissassist is not the same thing, and the issue with combat abilities using activedisc checks was fixed in kissassist long time ago, but probably wasnt done in muleassist, until recently

yeah, the MA thread said they posted in KA too. I'd love to beleive that changes since make Breather work in all those cases, but that's not my experience. I was seeing the problem worst on melee dps chars.

 

[Sic]

This is kinda like running in circles ... here we are back at the beginning.

Your chars don't run out of END when fighting long enough without downtime? You get breather to trigger in KA when other discs are running? Likewise when chain pulling and not leaving combat? When hidden as a ROG? From the buffs section? I'd have to see that for sure. Other posts say that's not possible (did you check those out?), and match up with my experience. Breather is available to use in all of those cases though. It doesn't trigger from the buffs section many times when it is actually available in game, and chars can run low. Thus putting it in the dps section. It's probably not something crazy I'm doing. Don't even know what I could do inside an ini to make the buff line that's getting quoted not work.

Anyone that claims this works for them, feel free to provide a ROG or BER ini. I will test it out. I bet your chars are taking breaks, running out of END, or fighting slow enough / short enough that you never notice. Especially if they are a ROG.

When breather is working right, eg a char playing manually, I never run out. Breather is enough to essentially have unlimited end on both ROG and BER. Are you saying that WAR can burn through END faster than that kaen?

breather has to be out of combat (which is why you have to ambush). relax you can use in combat.

 

[kaen01]

the |end tag in buff section will fire the skill in and out of combat if you are below the stated endurance. now if the skill cant be used in combat, well then it cant be used in combat, simple as that, but you cant tell me there is a situation where your rog or ber is not out of combat just for a smidgen of time.

 

[Harashil]

breather has to be out of combat. relax you can use in combat.

Right, I think that's the catch here. The difference between when buffs section will use breather and when a char can actually trigger it manually

 

[Harashil]

the |end tag in buff section will fire the skill in and out of combat if you are below the stated endurance. now if the skill cant be used in combat, well then it cant be used in combat, simple as that, but you cant tell me there is a situation where your rog or ber is not out of combat just for a smidgen of time.

Will it fire when I have another disc running? It's a significant dps loss to be short-stopping discs.

There are those smidgens and that's the problem. They reduce to nearly 0 triggers when combined with the other constraints. At least enough that the chars are running out of end.

If someone doesn't have this problem, I'd love to validate their ini.

 

[Harashil]

also if your tank is the puller check out the new features of kiss12 that allows you to set a pull condition, so you could have a condition checking your endurance and and breather readyness, and then puase until breather is fired in buff, and then bam go happy pulling.

That'd do ... almost exactly what I accomplish with putting it as a dps ambush for my (non pulling) melee dps chars .... right ?

 

[kaen01]

if it fires when dps1=breather|ambush, youd be out of combat and probably have an activedisc running.

however the buff section does take a few seconds before engaging, this could be your issue i suppose if you are chain pulling, but then again youd not be able to fire it on ambush anyways.. so..

 

[vandersl]

Never paid much attention to this - as an SK I don't find myself running low on END much. And I run MQ2Eskay anyways. But doesn't 'out of combat' in this case also require the cooldown timer to count down? In which case how would it ever fire if chain-pulling?

If you are happy with the DPSx=Breather|99|Ambush solution, then great (whether or not it works as Sic and Kaen01 say). But it seems you could also use MQ2React to set up a condition to fire it, which should work in and out of combat. Not much of a condition writer, so just pulling this together from other posts, but something like the following should be a start:

DoBreather:
action: /disc Breather
condition: ${Me.CombatState.NotEqual[COMBAT]} && ${Me.PctEND} <= 21 && ${Me.CombatAbilityReady[${Spell[Breather].RankName}]}

 

[kaen01]

out of combat is all the other states in combatstate that is not COMBATE

 

[Harashil]

if it fires when dps1=breather|ambush, youd be out of combat and probably have an activedisc running.

however the buff section does take a few seconds before engaging, this could be your issue i suppose if you are chain pulling, but then again youd not be able to fire it on ambush anyways.. so..

Putting it in ambush makes it go off when another disc is running. That's most of the time on grinding ROG / BERs. There's the bulk of the improvement.
Yes, when on a hate list (eg. always 2 in camp that are KOS & social), Breather is not available. It still will go from not working often, to working most of the time it can. It will also go off after every small gap too.

I never run out of END with Breather manually. It's a combination of the KA constraints causing the bots to run out. Now I don't run out. Without relying on mq2melee / dps loss. If buffs section would let it fire when another disc was running, in every small gap between mobs, ... even better, when hidden! ... that'd be perfect. It doesn't =/. Dps section is the next best option.

Worth noting, it has nothing to do with the ooc cooldown timer and only loosely with combat state. It's about being on a hate list or not.