Question - Bard - Lull & Pull

[Incognito]

Is there a way to use the bard's lull line (ENC reference), then pull, in KA without having to holy/down?

Here is what I want to do:

Hit the mob with Silence of the Windsong to reduce mob aggro radius to limit number of mobs brought back to camp. THEN I want to pull it (with anything - currently have Shissar Fangs from Dusty Soriz Pouch - don't really care what I pull with). It would be a 2-step process and I don't see anything in the INI that would facilitate that. It would work with ENC pulling as well.

Tia

 

[ninalia]

you have boastful bellow to pull why using range item ?

 

[Maskoi]

KISS=Keep It Simple Stupid. That's not simple. So no

 

[Incognito]

you have boastful bellow to pull why using range item ?

Fine, like I said, don't care about the actual pull, hundreds of ways to accomplish that particular aspect (and the fangs have a greater range).

KISS=Keep It Simple Stupid. That's not simple. So no

Ok fine, got it. We are sacrificing the skills that make a puller a puller. In its current state, it doesn't matter who we pull with since we aren't taking advantage of any of the special mechanisms that make a puller a good one. Monks get an aggro reducing skill, there might be other classes, but 3 of the greatest pullers (mnk, enc, brd) are being neutered by not being able to utilize the skill(s) that make them the best. Might as well pull with the cleric.

Got to admit, catchy thread title no?

 

[ctaylor22]

There is a lot to the mechanics of pulling when trying to use the various types of lull's. Good example is when using a monk's ability that confuses all mobs in an area. Even though the mobs don't run after you, all effected mobs show up in the xtarget window. As far as kiss is concerned you have aggroed a mob and it is time to return to camp, but the truth is nothing is going to follow you back to camp. Now in some zones you can use the monks confusion ability. Then /range your target and you will only pull your target, but in some zones you have to throw and hit the mob more than once, Now tell me if the mobs are on Xtarget, because you just used your confuse ability, How do you tell when you actually have the mob running after you? Now change it up and add in a chanter, when they lull a mob, what mob do you attack/agro. It wouldn't be the mob they lulled. A chanter would try and lull all the mobs around the mob you want to pull.

This process can get very complicated and I haven't even scratched the surface of everything that has to be considered to make the work for every class and to keep the setup Simple.

 

[Incognito]

That's a lot to think about. For my purposes, I narrowed it down to one line:

| Pull with cast
            } else {
                /if (${DebugPull}) /echo DEBUGPULL Pull: Casting to pull mob Line#: ${Macro.CurLine}
                /delay 5s !${Me.Moving} || (${AggroTargetID} && !${ChainPull}) || ${Me.XTarget[${XTSlot2}].ID} || ${Me.XTarget[${XTSlot}].ID}==${Target.ID}
                /if (${Target.ID}) /face nolook
                /look 0                 
                /if ((${AggroTargetID} && !${ChainPull}) || ((${Me.XTarget[${XTSlot2}].ID} || ${Me.XTarget[${XTSlot}].ID}==${Target.ID}) && ${ChainPull})) /goto :PullAgain
                /if (!${SpawnCount[npc los id ${Target.ID}]}) {
                    /varcalc PullDist ${PullDist}*.8
                    /goto :PullAgain
                }
                /if (!${Me.Moving}) /call CastWhat "${PullWith}" ${Target.ID} Pull
                /if (${Macro.Return.Equal[CAST_SUCCESS]} || (${AggroTargetID} && !${ChainPull}) || ((${Me.XTarget[${XTSlot2}].ID} || ${Me.XTarget[${XTSlot}].ID}==${Target.ID}) && ${ChainPull})) /varset Pulled 1
                /delay 1s (${AggroTargetID} && !${ChainPull}) || ((${Me.XTarget[${XTSlot2}].ID} || ${Me.XTarget[${XTSlot}].ID}==${Target.ID}) && ${ChainPull})
            }

If I doubled up the call to CastWhat, with first the lull bard-song, then called it again as written for actual pull, I was thinking that would do it. Might not be good for all classes, and may not work in all zones, but if the lull fired and reduced the targets aggro thereby not bringing friends, that would be the definition of a good pull.

Its just what I was thinking...

I have to admit, if it doesn't work the same in all zones, its impossible to code...

 

[ctaylor22]

It is not the agro area of the mob you are going to pull that you have to reduce, it is the agro area of the mobs, near the mob you are going to pull, that you have to worry about.

 

[Incognito]

Ok, thx CT!

 

[Zensai]

There is a lot to the mechanics of pulling when trying to use the various types of lull's. Good example is when using a monk's ability that confuses all mobs in an area. Even though the mobs don't run after you, all effected mobs show up in the xtarget window. As far as kiss is concerned you have aggroed a mob and it is time to return to camp, but the truth is nothing is going to follow you back to camp. Now in some zones you can use the monks confusion ability. Then /range your target and you will only pull your target, but in some zones you have to throw and hit the mob more than once, Now tell me if the mobs are on Xtarget, because you just used your confuse ability, How do you tell when you actually have the mob running after you? Now change it up and add in a chanter, when they lull a mob, what mob do you attack/agro. It wouldn't be the mob they lulled. A chanter would try and lull all the mobs around the mob you want to pull.

This process can get very complicated and I haven't even scratched the surface of everything that has to be considered to make the work for every class and to keep the setup Simple.

The way the Monk's Echo line works is you would Echo, and pull your target which should always be the first on the xtargets. The others will disappear as soon as Echo wears off. Isn't it possible to simply just have all classes check the mobs on the xtarget list for the Echo buff and ignore them if they have it? Once it fades the xtarget list clears to having only the mobs that are actually on the agro list.

 

[ctaylor22]

It is easy to explain, but try coding it, and not only that how about coding it for all classes. Well you and me like to pull using monks, but someone else will want to use there cleric, or enchanter, or ranger. To code this for every class is not simple, and simple is the KISS moto. Plus KISS is a macro for all classes, we try to keep that in mind when adding new functions, and if we can't added it for all and keep it simple, then we just don't do it.

 

[Incognito]

Was thinking more: One way you could tell which XTar actually aggro'd would be to take a hit. I mean, stand there, or move back XXfeet, wait for actual damage, then run back to camp. Although there are a multitude of ... challenges ... as you have already pointed out (and many more not mentioned), the one about which XTar did you actually pull is a big one.

 

[Maskoi]

No