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Question - 6 box setup sk, cleric, bard and xxx, yyy, zzz?
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tarquinn
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I run SK CLE BRD SHM BER WIZ
I understand it isn't the current meta dps lineup but I love my group.
I very briefly considered replacing the Wizard but I just enjoy the ports and exodus and such too much. Also she still blows shit up and really replacing her with another berzerker for group content is pretty irrelevant.
I understand it isn't the current meta dps lineup but I love my group.
I very briefly considered replacing the Wizard but I just enjoy the ports and exodus and such too much. Also she still blows shit up and really replacing her with another berzerker for group content is pretty irrelevant.
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sk clr bard 3x zerk with a shm on bard accoutn for buffs when needed
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3xZerk is probably the top pure DPS choice. You get alliance/covenant with 3 zerkers, but that really only useful on Named as its a very high endurance cost to run all the time and tends to be overkill on trash mobs. 3xZerk with bard buffs will melt all trash in under 15 seconds.
Bst-Zerk-Zerk is super popular. Bst is the second best melee buffer after bard. You get watered down Sham buffs, a ton of stacking +atk and more weapon-delay reduction. With Brd+Bst you'll be running two zerks+Bst at max haste/atk which can be on par with 3 zerks in many situations. Bst also brings a back-up healer and pet which can tank in a pinch, like a battle rez.
Cleric can handle 99% of content as solo healer, but some people like to have a Sham on one DPS account so they can run some Named/Instances with a 2 healer setup if needed. If you don't run Bst, then Sham is tempting main healer but they are trickier than cleric as you're trying to land heals and ADPS at the same time.
While there is plenty of debate, the highest DPS group should be War-Brd-Shm-Zerk(x3). War is the tank that gains the most white-dmg from bard and can run in dual-wield for almost all content. Sham provides much more melee ADPS via buffs, Roar procs and epic than a cleric. I'd rate this as a challenging group to start though, you need to be very well geared on the war as sham can't quite pump out heals like cleric and you don't have heals/taps on tank to off-set that.
Part of the advantage is Zerks are overall low endurance usage and have been OP DPS since at least EoK. So a lot of macros have been tuned to crank out high group DPS. Chat's mq2bererker is amazingly optimized to get the best DPS out a zerk and I've used IHC to do great DPS too. I've run KA zerkers based on a similar logic/conditions and can get close but not quite the performance of the plugin.
In something like a pure chain-pull, where there are always mobs in camp with no downtime, actually 3xMages can out-dps a zerker group. The mages can get multiple swarm pets going by running it every cooldown and swapping them to new targets instantly before pets poof. Pure chain-pull is pretty hard to setup and find a free camp with that many available mobs though.
Bst-Zerk-Zerk is super popular. Bst is the second best melee buffer after bard. You get watered down Sham buffs, a ton of stacking +atk and more weapon-delay reduction. With Brd+Bst you'll be running two zerks+Bst at max haste/atk which can be on par with 3 zerks in many situations. Bst also brings a back-up healer and pet which can tank in a pinch, like a battle rez.
Cleric can handle 99% of content as solo healer, but some people like to have a Sham on one DPS account so they can run some Named/Instances with a 2 healer setup if needed. If you don't run Bst, then Sham is tempting main healer but they are trickier than cleric as you're trying to land heals and ADPS at the same time.
While there is plenty of debate, the highest DPS group should be War-Brd-Shm-Zerk(x3). War is the tank that gains the most white-dmg from bard and can run in dual-wield for almost all content. Sham provides much more melee ADPS via buffs, Roar procs and epic than a cleric. I'd rate this as a challenging group to start though, you need to be very well geared on the war as sham can't quite pump out heals like cleric and you don't have heals/taps on tank to off-set that.
Part of the advantage is Zerks are overall low endurance usage and have been OP DPS since at least EoK. So a lot of macros have been tuned to crank out high group DPS. Chat's mq2bererker is amazingly optimized to get the best DPS out a zerk and I've used IHC to do great DPS too. I've run KA zerkers based on a similar logic/conditions and can get close but not quite the performance of the plugin.
In something like a pure chain-pull, where there are always mobs in camp with no downtime, actually 3xMages can out-dps a zerker group. The mages can get multiple swarm pets going by running it every cooldown and swapping them to new targets instantly before pets poof. Pure chain-pull is pretty hard to setup and find a free camp with that many available mobs though.
Great suggestions, thank you ... I also have a 105 rogue, which I had kind of dismissed just doing some searching for DPS. SK, Cleric, Bard are definite for now. What about zerker/zerker/rogue?
Goal for now is to do top group content and be efficient if I want to PL something else.
Goal for now is to do top group content and be efficient if I want to PL something else.
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Rogue is also good DPS and shares a +hit aura with group. Plus if you feel like making it, poison can be shared with all melee for more DPS. If I recall, somebody mentioned that Rngr Headshot and Rog Assassinate are much higher dmg than Zerk's Decap, but have much tighter restrictions on mob type. So Zerk tends to do overall better dmg unless you can stay on certain humanoid mob type camps.
One reason people like to stack the same class is that classes tend to get abilities that help others of same class. So zerks get a couple abilities like intimidate that place a debuff on mob that adds a 10-50% more to incoming Frenzy (zerker only) damage. Other classes intimidate will add different debuff, like bard's will boost kick dmg. Plus alliance/covenent tends to require 2-3 of same class to work.
One reason people like to stack the same class is that classes tend to get abilities that help others of same class. So zerks get a couple abilities like intimidate that place a debuff on mob that adds a 10-50% more to incoming Frenzy (zerker only) damage. Other classes intimidate will add different debuff, like bard's will boost kick dmg. Plus alliance/covenent tends to require 2-3 of same class to work.
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ADPS for melee group is the main sham addition. If you can run them as your main healer then you get really high melee DPS. As a backup, they can get enough heal over time output that the main healer only watches the tank. I think the ADPS from a Bst may be more as you get similar buffs and add overhaste from weapon delay reduc, but you trade of all that healing.
As a Shaman healer they bring 3 stacking HoTs, splash heals and can mem multi levels of their fast heals if needed. Their clicky BP is another emergency group heal.
As ADPS for melee group, Shaman's epic is still one of the best melee group boosts. They also bring Focus (HP/+11% evasion/+11% skill dmg/+stat cap), TalaTak (+atk/runspeed), wolf aura (20k hp/mana/end), temp HP boost for warriors but won't stack on knights. They also get Roar which gives all melee a stacking 14k proc chance.
On utility they add cripple to slow, which is minor but does reduce mobs stats/defenses a tiny bit. Plus some utility from AE slows or rare utility from AE roots/knockbacks.
On DPS output they get some OK nukes, but very very good DoTs. On Named or longer fights they can put out decent DPS if the DoTs get going. I'd say most EoK+ content though is too fast for DoTs to be worth cast time. Maybe Giants in Kael or such.
Bard/Ench can handle slowing fine, I wouldn't add sham just for that. In fact the slow proc belts for tank are often enough slowing to get things dead.
As a Shaman healer they bring 3 stacking HoTs, splash heals and can mem multi levels of their fast heals if needed. Their clicky BP is another emergency group heal.
As ADPS for melee group, Shaman's epic is still one of the best melee group boosts. They also bring Focus (HP/+11% evasion/+11% skill dmg/+stat cap), TalaTak (+atk/runspeed), wolf aura (20k hp/mana/end), temp HP boost for warriors but won't stack on knights. They also get Roar which gives all melee a stacking 14k proc chance.
On utility they add cripple to slow, which is minor but does reduce mobs stats/defenses a tiny bit. Plus some utility from AE slows or rare utility from AE roots/knockbacks.
On DPS output they get some OK nukes, but very very good DoTs. On Named or longer fights they can put out decent DPS if the DoTs get going. I'd say most EoK+ content though is too fast for DoTs to be worth cast time. Maybe Giants in Kael or such.
Bard/Ench can handle slowing fine, I wouldn't add sham just for that. In fact the slow proc belts for tank are often enough slowing to get things dead.
luclinjunkie
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So may good points.... I have a 108 mage already too! Looking like SK, Cleric, Bard, Zerk, Zerk, Zerk may turn into SK(have), Cleric(have), Bard(have),Rogue(have),Mage(have), Zerker(need to make).
I imagine the mage pet would benefit from the melee buffs?
I imagine the mage pet would benefit from the melee buffs?
luclinjunkie
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I see a recurring theme where Enc is replaced by bard. Might be time (for 4th of July xp bonus) to drop in a Bard.
Allurex
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I will say ill drop the bard before enchanter
luclinjunkie
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How does the rogue do compared and does it provide synergy? I want a rogue just for poisons tbh.
he does ok needs some more AAs to jack up his dps
Hello all, new user here. As I read through all this information to decide what to put in my group one question keeps popping up. Are you all using mercs in these groups? I will be ftp on all accounts for the foreseeable future so I’m Loui Ted to J4 melee dps, healer, tank mercs I think. why or why not use mercs? If you do then why not use multiple healers and forego the cleric all together?
thanks,
thanks,
Hi @Branson24 , the only good reason I can think of for NOT having your 6 box of FTP vs 3 with 3 mercs is if your computer can or cannot run 6 boxes smoothly. 6 FTP will do so much much more than any A2 or A5 merc or even J5 can do. In a viewpoint, what you have with 6 is way more configurable, intelligent merc capability over what DBG mercs provide. Whether you use KA or buy one of the plugins, you will have more options playing all 6 and controlling from one main character. With DBG merc your Caster (wizard) DPS merc is nice, they follow around and blast away...but thats it. They never get stronger or gear up until you level, with KA you can get them better gear and cast situational spells, you can use them to port around, cast extra pets, get them clickys with Circle line spells they can click, etc.
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KA doesn't care if you do or don't use mercs. Most of the merc control is EQ server-side anyways, so KA just has some basic stuff in the toon's ini.
Merc downsides - Need to stay gold/subbed. Tank is useless beyond about level 70. Wiz is mediocre DPS, rogue is meh DPS. Also DPS mercs sometimes won't engage/assist on out-of-group targets. Healer is OK but lacks a lot of the AA and gear "save me now" clicks that a real cleric brings.
6-man group - Cheaper as you can go all FTP or sub your tank. Most people run 6 toons (Tank is gold for prestige AC gear + 5 FTP) for full-group exp bonus. Plus instances will cap at 6, so why not bring higher output toons.
In open zones, you can sometimes smash a rough Named with mercs though. Split into groups of 3 toons + 3 mercs and kill the Named with a 12-man "raid." Works with healer mercs backing group and sometimes the DPS ones will all get on the target, sometimes they won't.
Merc downsides - Need to stay gold/subbed. Tank is useless beyond about level 70. Wiz is mediocre DPS, rogue is meh DPS. Also DPS mercs sometimes won't engage/assist on out-of-group targets. Healer is OK but lacks a lot of the AA and gear "save me now" clicks that a real cleric brings.
6-man group - Cheaper as you can go all FTP or sub your tank. Most people run 6 toons (Tank is gold for prestige AC gear + 5 FTP) for full-group exp bonus. Plus instances will cap at 6, so why not bring higher output toons.
In open zones, you can sometimes smash a rough Named with mercs though. Split into groups of 3 toons + 3 mercs and kill the Named with a 12-man "raid." Works with healer mercs backing group and sometimes the DPS ones will all get on the target, sometimes they won't.
I hadn't even thought about the 3 real players and 3 mercs idea for two full groups ... that's pretty smart hehe.
If you are worried about your PC handling it, you should look into the mq2EQWire plugin. It is a paid plugin, but you can try it for free on the test server which would still give you a good indication of how well things will run.
Here is something to think about. I was ALT-Tabing 2 characters for a long time. A friend in EQ mentioned Redguides to me and said just check it out. I did and was so impressed I went an got an account (went straight to level 2) Got things set up and my game improved. As I started to get to understand how things worked, I got a F2P account and now I was 3 char and 3 mercs. All of a sudden I was at 4 char and 2 merc. Now I am at 6 characters and no mercs and my game has greatly improved.
I went and got MQ2EQWired and watched cpu drop. Added some of the changes that are suggested above and my cpu barely moves now. So IMHO go to the test server and play around with some of the things to see what they do and get a feel for what you want to do. If it feels right then move to live and have fun.
I went and got MQ2EQWired and watched cpu drop. Added some of the changes that are suggested above and my cpu barely moves now. So IMHO go to the test server and play around with some of the things to see what they do and get a feel for what you want to do. If it feels right then move to live and have fun.
Fabianz1977
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