News - Why Does It Have To Become Obsolete? (1 Viewer)

[RedBema]

If you havn't read Iso's latest article concerning WoW's WotLK, go check it out, it has some valuable information.


My question to Blizzard is simple, "Why?" It has bugged me ever since they first released TBC and boggled my mind as to why they would make a level 61 green have better stats than a level 60 epic from pre TBC gear. Don't get me wrong, as a noob 60 hunter, who was geared in a mix of blues and greens, it felt great to be on the same playing field as all of my commrades who raided every night. However, it still bugged the crap out of me as to why they would even conceive such a thing?

Consider it this way. At level 40, if you were to purchase or loot a purple item from a mob on par with your level, the item can last you for at least 10 levels before the green stats even begin to catch up. A blue item seems to be about 5 or so. So why on earth would Blizzard make it to where all of the current end game/PvP gear becomes obsolete? If I had anything to say about it, I would suggest making the epics last the way that any other purple item lasts in the game.

I understand a fresh start and trying to give the players new gear and a new taste, but heck, we all have worked darn hard to acquire the gear that we have, and the very last thing I want is to finish a single quest to have my Season 2 PvP helmet be ousted by a green. It is just sad.

For me, the benefits of making the current epic gear of worth in WotLK, far outweigh the "freshness" of any green that I could wear. Dungeons such as Scholo or Strat would still have life rather than the pallies and warlocks who are trying to get their mount quests done. I don't know about you, but I loved those instances. Things like BWL or UBRS and LBRS and any of the other high end raids (Rag, Naxx) pre BC would still have merit. You could get armor and good experience, whilst enjoying a dungeon that Blizzard worked hard on. Sure, some of them required a large amount of people to raid it, but all they needed to do was dumb down the instance to make it a five man.

It just doesn't make any sense to me. It pretty much makes all of the current epic gear worthless, yet still in the game. In essence, it is useless. Why would you work so hard to get that epic piece from BWL when you know that in the outlands you'll loot a green from quest X that blows its stats out of the water? The outlands shouldnt be the only place that a level 60 should want to be, they could very well implement the old world dungeons as well. There are alot of players who don't even know that they exist, and that to me is a shame, a pure shame. Not to mention that outland xp is far higher than old world xp. (The level 58's and such that is) I just don't understand why they did this? In my opinion, a level 58 should give you X xp, and a dungeon for level 60's should give you a helm on par with any other dungeon for that level.

Why, why, why?

I think I am going to go farm the Tier 0.5 set just for fun, and run around SW like I am some leet player or something. Maybe I'll /duel a noob in full greens and let him win.

Thanks for reading my rant.

 

[isobelle]

sidegrades.

the reason is prefectly clear, it's just that no one likes to hear it. once you hit the level cap, you can't go up, only sideways. Beating MC, and moving on to BWL, and then on to AQ40, and then Naxx, all that stuff was level 60 gear. your character wasn't moving up at all, your gear was.

now that there's suddenly level 61, all that gear of course needs to be replaced. No one lingers at 60 anymore running level 60 instances for months on end. nobody even runs a single level 60 instance anymore. then go straight to outlands at level 58, and begin running ramparts.

They need to look at it assuming that no one will ever set foot into molten core again. it's that mechanic that sucks the most. people stop running SFK after a certain level range, but NOBODY runs MC anymore. there's no point.

they should have made ramparts be the first instance in the outlands, but only runnable at level 67 or something. let people run BWL or something, then go into ramps.

also with BC, they had HUGE amounts of stamina thrown into the mix to try and offset getting one shotted all the time. gear with +40 STA wasn't unheard of, while back in preBC +40 stamina would have been ridiculous.

expansions happen, it's natural for the genre. the only thing i would really change, would be to add new zones to existing continents intead of adding completely new ones. putting caverns of time in tanaris was a good start, but that, class trainers, and the AH were the only reasons to go back to old world one BC dropped.

 

[Bladee]

Well, on my server people still often run AQ40, Naxx and MC. Just for the great epic feeling, when you see Ragnaros or Twin Emperors. Not to mention that there are still some legendary horny people who runs MC for bindings. Yesterday I actually attended a summoning of the Windseeker, and a new thunderfury was born on our server.

However the gear part.. Imo It is all just to see end game of the game, beat the crap out of some bosses and then move on to new bosses in new expansion. I would not say that first random green will replace me my T6, as much I know about the loot in Wotlk, they are not that superior that I will throw away my epics for first random green.

However what I really dislike is the grindfest in TBC, and special faction grindfest. I loved the grinding in old world, when you had to go to arathi and kill some low level elementals for Fire protection pots, or going to felwood to grind elementals in there. It actually show you that "hey, the reagents for epics are spread all over the world, go get them!", while now I just need to head out to elemental plateu, and I have all I need there. There were lots of fun items, and rare items you could grind and sell for quite lot of money (Turs hand anyone?). And before, factions were actually hard to get, and gave you nice professions rewards aswell, which could be a good money income.

 

[sirandal]

The reason you can't understand it is because you already assume that you will be getting the expansion. It's very important for those "upgrades" to exist even at lvl 60 (or in the next expansion at lvl 70) because of the way the top tier of AV works(worked.)

If you could stay happy in AV forever with your old lvl 60 epic stuff happily (and some do regardless) then there would be no incentive to level up. Basically the last "diehard" 60s would eventually be "forced" to buy the expansion to be able to compete even at 60 (yes there are plenty of people who "twinked" their level 60s (with outlands stuff) and kept them there to just do AV (as mind-boggling as that seems to me.)

 

[RedBema]

I see and mostly agree with everything that you guys have said. But I just hate the fact that raids like MC are simply obsolete. Dungeons like that are great, and still have great value to them, content wise that is.

I think that Blizzard should have transitioned them towards more of a level 60 dungeon that could still be done if desired.

Basically, I understand the "sideways" illustration. To appease players, and simply keep the game going, you have to have expansions, and you have to have new content and new gear. It would be absurd to argue against this. It keeps everyone coming back for more.

However, my original assertation still stands. How come your T6 gear has to be ousted by a level 71 green? If they situated the old instances xp wise, and held back on the green stats that the xpacs offer, and fixed the old "BIG" raids to be able to be done by a 5 man or even a 10 man group, I think that the game would have so much more to offer.

I don't know about you, but if I were just now hitting level 60, and it was my first go around, the Outlands would simply be just another zone to go to level, that is, if there were raids like Naxx or MC available to run with a 5 man or 10 man group. I would love it to do a 10 man raid. It makes you feel like level 70 (or 80) is the only level that matters. The game should be well rounded in every aspect, offering each decade of levels a plethora of leet raids to go to. (And it is well rounded)

I am just saying that I think with the new player base, (most people I meet now seem to have only been playing since TBC), that it would be so great to offer those old raids that offer good xp on the equivalent of the Outlands, great gear such as blues and purples that don't get ousted by greens a level later, and good content. In other words, have the entire world offer raids, not just the outlands at that level.

Personally, I spend more time in the old lands than the outlands. I make 90% of my money there, if not more. I earn 100% of my gear there. Call me an oldie, but I just love the game in the olden days. I am all for it growing, it has too. But heck, keep the old towns incorporated somehow. Have some freakin lore going on with Burning Steppes, or Stormwind. Have kingdoms falling or being restored. Those are events that would be nice to see.

Please know that I say all this with a good joy of playing WoW. Nothing that I am saying is to state that I hate WoW, or the direction it is going. I am playing the game more now than ever, enjoying it more now than ever. I just hate that they make the greens so leet compared to this gear that took players months to get. It's not about changing the current epix to fit the mold, it's simply about holding off on the new greens that will trump our current gear.

Basically, the game in my opnion should be situated as if the xpacs were there from the beginning. All the xp, gear, dungeons, etc. should all be parallel with each other in every aspect. A level 60 dungeon should be a level 60 dungeon, not "Hellfire = Amazing XP and Gear vs. Scholo = Waste of Time." Blizzard has the ability to situate all of the old end game stuff to fix it as being something that was there from the beginning, to be done as a normal dungeon. The big raids like Naxx or MC could be 10 man raids, I don't care, but whatever keeps them with some kind of life. I hate that there are wonderful dungeons like these just sitting there rotting away.

It boggled me 2 years ago and still boggles me today.

 

[Bladee]

Well, I must say that my favourite town to afk in, and to spend time in, always were, and is Stormwind. I enjoy it, and always taking portal to there from Shatt to idle. I would not say that old towns are forgotten. Maybe they were the first weeks of the expansion, however the AH and trainers made them popular again, as in pre-TBC days.

And surely it would be wonderful to see some TBC quests leading to scholo or strat, but I must say that I run them anyway few times a week, so they are not missing for me. There is lots of money to be made in them.

 

[mven]

One of the things WoW expansions seem to be missing that the earlier EQ expansions had was a decent amount of content at all levels. The worst thing for me about TBC was starting my new little Draenei warrior. I had this cool newbie island with all sorts of quests I hadn't done before on my 30 something other characters. And then after 20 it was back to the same old shit for 40 more levels. In EQ kunark for instance there was an absolute fuckton of content added at all levels not just the levels from 50-60 that you could advance post expansion. This to me was so much more awesome to be able to start from scratch and enjoy a whole new play through of the game only visiting the older zones for that occasional nostalgia or exciting piece of newbie loots.

On the loot thing I appreciate that at 80 level 70 raid gear should be somewhat dated. I don't think anyone disagrees there but they seem to have gone out of their way to make gear completely obsolete. One big thing is that they changed the way things like crit chance and to hit and such worked to where it was a number that meant something different at each level instead of the nice neat percentage that it used to be. If they had left this then perhaps "old school" trinkets and clickie effects would actually be worth holding on to for late game use. I also wish they had taken a more gradual approach. The crazy amount of stamina on expansion trash in TBC pretty much raped all but the best level 60 gear right off the bat. If it was a bit more gradual I think those in raid gear would be a bit less annoyed. *shrug*

 

[Bladee]

As I noticed today, the Grim Guzzler bar in BRD gets some love from Blizzard, not only that seasonal beer fest will have a boss in there, but right now there is that Tauren band playing there each evening at 20.00, and also an arena vendor (LOL).

When I did /who BRD at 20.00, it showed whole 23 level 70 people in there.. looks like wow players likes rock ^_^

 

[oshin]

Its mmo inflation, an hour of your time now gets you what an half an hour will get you in a few months. Its the only way to keep people playing and paying. Thing is its usually fine when its all nice and gradual, the average joe starts in greens, then works his way into blues, then gets t4, 5 and 6, same with pvp gear, and the game in general (easier leveling and so on)

I think the best example of somebody getting really fed up of this was a warrior I knew, he had pretty much the best fury gear on the server and he was a really good player, with a massive ego. He got to 60 early on the server and raided from its beginnings. By the time the expansion was coming he just decided to quit, I wondered why at the time, why quit when all the fun new content was coming out ? It became pretty obvious though as I played on, he was one of the best, mainly due to gear he gathered over 2 years of raiding and a head start against most other people. If he wanted to remain the best he`d have to swap his purples for greens and start from the bottom, this time with no head start and far more competition who could probably throw lots more time at the game. What I learned from him is that staying on top of the pile is pointless, its all going to go one day, may as well just stick with the pack and enjoy the game.

At some point an expansion has to be done to level out the playing field, PVE raiders need new blood constantly, and if that new blood needs t6+ they are pretty much screwed. Pvp meanwhile become impossible for newer players, the arena entry point has players in full season 2 bg gear who trounce the crap out of your greens.

I think your point about the old world is right though, heroic modes for some of the old instances would be awesome, it would also spread out the number of instances so you dont get sick of constantly doing the same ones.

 

[RedBema]

I think your point about the old world is right though, heroic modes for some of the old instances would be awesome, it would also spread out the number of instances so you dont get sick of constantly doing the same ones.

And that is all that I am saying.

 

[isobelle]

i think another way to go about it would be to cut the level required DOWN to get into scholo... this is actually a really good idea the more i think about it. nerf scholo and strat just enough that they all become level 50 content. think about it... once someone hits 58, they go to outlands. what is there to run from 50 to 58? sunken temple. ugh, EVERYONE hates ST. make scholo, strat, UBRS, LBRS, etc all be level 45-58 content, and have people give their final farewell to the old world with style, instead of just grinding ghosts in EPL until you ding 58.

 

[RedBema]

That would be great too. Anything that incorporates them into the general plethora of raids.

 

[mven]

It's not really true that you need to balance the scales at any point in the game for PvE. For PvP gear you can just keep adding in silly arena rewards on the cheap that people can use to at least not die in the first 2 seconds of playing. For PvE gear though you can as I mentioned in my other post have people who are behind the curve but are still progressing happily at their own pace. Not every guild HAS to have the top end shit and raid the bestest dungeon. Then again with the fact that there is no real competition in WoW maybe everyone does have to raid the best of the best to feel like they accomplished something I dunno. I remember guilds I was in being happy to complete MC or ZG for the first time even though all the cool people were raiding BWL... *shrug*

 

[RedBema]

Ya, I loved the fact that they incorporated the "Badge of Justice" into the game so that you can move at your own pace. It finally ridded the crap that would drop like a Mail armored so and so, when nobody in the raid needed it. (I hear they are actually getting rid of these badges...maybe they have something for lvl 80's to replace it?)

Honestly, I understand that WoW leads the pack for MMO gaming. They basically have to use us as guinni pigs in alot of what they do. I really don't mind that. I just truly wish that a couple things were a little bit different. It's not really anything bad about what they are adding, it's what they are leaving behind in the process.

Btw, anyone think that anytime soon they will implement "dyeing" or "coloring" into the game for the tailor class? How cool would it be if we could color our own armor. Lotro allows that and I loved it. It gave you a sense of individuality.

 

[mven]

Btw, anyone think that anytime soon they will implement "dyeing" or "coloring" into the game for the tailor class? How cool would it be if we could color our own armor. Lotro allows that and I loved it. It gave you a sense of individuality.

If they did a hardcore advanced dying system maybe it would be cool I dunno. To where you can actually dye multiple parts of the same armor a different color rather than simply just replacing the color of the whole piece like most MMOs. WoW armor has enough physical differences that dying wouldn't really be as gay as it is in other games. Like in EQ or DAoC dying was pretty lame because not only did it make the armor look stupid it also amounted to about 1000000000 people with the exact same black dyed armor. There was even less individuality than before. *shrug*