Discussion - ROF+ content and EQEmu, Servers and Content

[vsab]

Since it's come up a few times about ROF content on various recent threads, It hought I'd shar a few thougts/explain a few things that can confuse folks. It's not meant to be 100% detailed (and maybe a little loose on accuracy)

EQEmu is best thought of as two things:-

- The server
- The content

The Server

The server allows the client to connect, deals with the mechanics of spawns, spells and so on. Think of it like MQNext - it's the platform that hosts the functionality. On it's own it doesn't do a great deal (in MQNext that's done using plugins).

For each EQ client, it uses a slightly different language to talk back and forth ("opcodes" but also the content may change too as they add more fields/features). This is the same as you have in ShowEQ/MySEQ - each client change needs a corresponding change in codes. If this feels familiar - it is, it is not unlike the process that MQNext has to do every live patch. To support features on the server, the EQEmu devs also have to reverse engineer this language. For example, what does the server send the client when you complete an achievement?

The Content

The content comes from two things: 1) the database, and 2) the quest scripts. Combining these two, these are not unlike the macros - RGMercs or KissAssist for example. They actually do the things.

The database is an SQL server, and it's basically populated much the same as raidloot.com, eqresource, magelo etc
The quest scripts are either Lua or Perl scripts. These are hand written by volunteers.

New Content

For new content to be available:-

1. You need the server to support the feature. For example, evolving items were only recently added.
2. You need the database data (some of it will be there like mob names, spawn points, but things like abilities, spells and damage might not).
3. You need the quest scripts written.

New Client

For the new client, you would need the server to support it, whch involves reverse engineering from "packet captures".

The Good News

The good news is that anyone can contribute to the open source quests to move things forward.... just learn yourself some Lua https://github.com/ProjectEQ/projecteqquests

 

[Phalanx]

So in theory, EMU could go up to live?

 

[Algar]

So in theory, EMU could go up to live?

Right now, the client only supports RoF. There is some work that may eventually result in a more modern client.

The issue being is that all of the data (mobs/quests/etc) to populate those zones has to be recreated, the eqemulator project has no access to that.

That means people taking to the time to create it, publish it, and maintain it.

 

[reedreddington]

Thanks for this info vsab. I know I have spoken a couple times on wanting to see EMU servers running up to their full potential of the ROF client. We need more content, raid scripting, ect pushed into the community for sure.

Honestly, an EMU that runs up to Live content would be easier to piece together than trying to snapshot a historic expac era like ROF. The downside is that DPG would really target a server that did that. I know EQEmulator has stated in their SO TOS that they don't want servers going past DoN. I am of the opinion that RoF should be the limit as that is the active client that most EMU servers are using.

Time will tell.

 

[Prazzamancer]

What's the problem with going past DoN?

 

[reedreddington]

IDK. Ask the mods over at EQEmulator

EQEmulator - Server Operator Terms of Service

EQEmulator is an open-source Everquest emulation project for creating custom Everquest servers.

www.eqemulator.org

 

[Redfrog]

What's the problem with going past DoN?

Others may give a more full answer, but all the stuff that is not on your computer when you install is controlled from or is sent from the Game servers. So all that data has to be created. Many things simply don't work without someone putting all the data in a usable format. So you have RoF2 client and have all the files up to that, so on your home comp you have the Reign of Fear zone files, even the NPC graphics. You don't have the loc of where they spawn, when they spawn/respawn, what loot they might have, what they say, what they con, what dmg they do, how fast they move...etc etc. Quest lines need all the info and NPCs to react to character flags, items linked to quest progression, Journal Window to give you stuff. From OG to DoN, that work was done...over a long time by people who created it all to act like Live. From this.. maybe we will all be able to help RG/MQ to fill in more info as go forward. They need a little time to figure out their path for MQ.

 

[Phalanx]

Others may give a more full answer, but all the stuff that is not on your computer when you install is controlled from or is sent from the Game servers. So all that data has to be created. Many things simply don't work without someone putting all the data in a usable format. So you have RoF2 client and have all the files up to that, so on your home comp you have the Reign of Fear zone files, even the NPC graphics. You don't have the loc of where they spawn, when they spawn/respawn, what loot they might have, what they say, what they con, what dmg they do, how fast they move...etc etc. Quest lines need all the info and NPCs to react to character flags, items linked to quest progression, Journal Window to give you stuff. From OG to DoN, that work was done...over a long time by people who created it all to act like Live. From this.. maybe we will all be able to help RG/MQ to fill in more info as go forward. They need a little time to figure out their path for MQ.

You'd think something like AI would be good at logging all of this stuff.

 

[Prazzamancer]

Others may give a more full answer, but all the stuff that is not on your computer when you install is controlled from or is sent from the Game servers. So all that data has to be created. Many things simply don't work without someone putting all the data in a usable format. So you have RoF2 client and have all the files up to that, so on your home comp you have the Reign of Fear zone files, even the NPC graphics. You don't have the loc of where they spawn, when they spawn/respawn, what loot they might have, what they say, what they con, what dmg they do, how fast they move...etc etc. Quest lines need all the info and NPCs to react to character flags, items linked to quest progression, Journal Window to give you stuff. From OG to DoN, that work was done...over a long time by people who created it all to act like Live. From this.. maybe we will all be able to help RG/MQ to fill in more info as go forward. They need a little time to figure out their path for MQ.

Ah, ok. Sounds either like a practice to preserve their intellectual property or to just have less stuff to install.

 

[vsab]

I'm not sure what that TOS is really for, but...

The server is 100% original code. It is also open source.

Arguably, the lore and quests are DBG intellectual property. Much in the same way you can't photocopy a book and say "it's not the original, it's a copy so I'm not infringing on copyright". I wonder if "not past DON" is either an appeasement or "gentleman's agreement".

Many popular emu servers go their own way with custom content, which is 100% their own (unless they reuse EQ lore). It depends on what EQ really means to you as to whether they appeal.

You can fire up newer zones in emu - the spawn paths have been collected but tend to be always-on or a little odd. They need tweaking. And it doesn't really mean you can adventure there, no quests, mob spells etc.

 

[reedreddington]

I believe this was an agreement based on the THJ stuff. I remember reading something about them coming up with the revised SO TOS and DPG agreeing with it. So it could be a gentleman's agreement? I just don't want to see a server get shut down just because they pushed to RoF based on the client when the SO TOS states DoN. EMU really needs to be pushed further into the content so that there is a renewed interest in users playing. It just makes sense that RoF would be the cutoff as that is the client being used.

Also, since when do we care about EULA or TOS? As long as none of the servers make money out of the deal I think we would be ok pushing content.


Edit: Found Rogean's post on the subject -

Server Operator Terms of Service​

---

Hey everyone,

The past few months have been eventful for emulator communities everywhere. Many of you are likely aware of the recent litigation involving the EverQuest Emulator server The Hero’s Journey, which resulted in a preliminary injunction ordering its closure. At the same time, a private World of Warcraft server community also became involved in legal proceedings and referenced the EverQuest Emulator community in its defense.

We’ve been fortunate that EverQuest is owned by a company that has allowed this community to exist and thrive, giving countless people the chance to express their creativity in amazing ways. Historically, most servers have operated under a loose set of unwritten guidelines, based largely on common sense and a shared understanding of what is and isn’t acceptable.

Unfortunately, some projects have chosen to push beyond those boundaries, drawing increased attention to emulator communities as a whole. This has made it more important than ever for companies to take a clear stance regarding the use of their intellectual property.

Most companies respond to situations like this by completely banning or shutting down emulation and modding efforts. Thankfully, Daybreak has taken a different approach. They’ve been open to working with us to establish an official framework that allows this community to continue existing responsibly and respectfully.

Over the past several weeks, I’ve had extensive discussions with Daybreak about a new Server Operator Terms of Service for the EverQuest Emulator community. They have worked with me in good faith, showing flexibility on several points while remaining firm on others.

I expect that some server operators may have concerns or questions about certain sections of the new terms. Please don’t assume that this marks the end of any given server. I strongly encourage any server operator to reach out to me directly on Discord so we can go over any issues together. I’ll do everything I can to ensure each server has an opportunity to be heard and to work through any potential problems with the proper channels.

The new Server Operator Terms of Service can be found Here.

Thank you​

__________________
EQEmulator Developer / Administrator​

 

[kaleep]

THJ lawsuit scared a lot of people. specifically it opened the possibility of being personally liable for a lot of financial loss. ProjectEQ folded because of a fear of prosecution. the agreement made with eqemu staff was trying to determine boundaries going forward. I run my own private server, and a lot of the resources I relied on disappeared with the whole THJ debacle. I'd love DoDH to open up it was one of my favorite expansions. alas, we are where we are.

 

[eqsubi15]

Right now, the client only supports RoF. There is some work that may eventually result in a more modern client.

The issue being is that all of the data (mobs/quests/etc) to populate those zones has to be recreated, the eqemulator project has no access to that.

That means people taking to the time to create it, publish it, and maintain it.

So, who's breaking into DB to swipe a copy of all the EQ data?

 

[Algar]

We drew straws, got one left for you.
Hope it ain't the short one.

So, who's breaking into DB to swipe a copy of all the EQ data?

 

[afortner87]

So, who's breaking into DB to swipe a copy of all the EQ data?

I like the cut of your jib kid

 

[Warking2]

It is possible to go beyond DoN, and even beyond RoF. It essentially comes down to time to recreate the content that is unable to be exported. It is overall extremely time consuming. Example, just to create a spell:

- identify spell IDs for rk1, 2 ,3
- identify item Ids for the spell tomes/scrolls
- relate the proper effect ids (particle editing if newer clients)
- ensure client has the proper spell icons and effects assigned in the tables
- ensure spell icons for when it lands or sticks to NPC or person is using correct icon IDs
- ensure the client is updated in the .ini files for the spells
- ensure the spell has proper affects and does what it is supposed to do by updating SQL tables for the DB (If using SQL) for each rank
- relate the class to the item / spell as well as level requirements on cast, and use.
- update item tables for proper use and what it does when clicking to mem
- ensure spell book slots cover the expansion of new spells
- update and vendors if purchasable
- update loot tables for mob groups, and loot table groups and ensure they are assigned to mobs. (each mob ID has to have a linked loot table ID)
- update event scripts for missions or raids if the spell is used in a known event or even custom event.
- update reference spreadsheets for the IDs so you never duplicate IDs

... That is just for a spell... and everything would need to be done from mob pathing to placement, scripting, vendors, etc.... Having the client gives us the models, zones, and images to use, but without a good DB/Script export many of us creators manually work on recreating it all. And for many it starts becoming fun to create new events over the tedium of duplicating live. Then many EMU servers need to have custom client patches to the base client.

Another issue that live ran into at one point that EMU also faces is the finite Item, ability, AA IDs that can be used based on the DB version / DB type. consolidation of AAs was done on live a while back to also free up ID#s that can be used elsewhere (without making additional DB tables). This also makes it difficult to duplicate live beyond DoN as at some point you abandon some of the original IDs when revamping AAs.

 

[afortner87]

Yeah I always wondered why they don’t have a rof2 download for emu

 

[Prazzamancer]

Yeah I always wondered why they don’t have a rof2 download for emu

Per the 2015 lawsuit against P99
c) Project 1999 users are and will always be required to obtain their own copies of the EverQuest client software in order to use Project 1999, and you will not encourage, induce, or assist any user in obtaining a pirated copy of the EverQuest client software;