Question - Question about spell casting DPS and global cooldowns. (1 Viewer)

[lefidous]

I am leveling up a box crew with two wizards in them, and as I go along I am keeping a spread sheet of my new skills. It looks like the image posted. My question is about how global cooldowns affect DPS. So for example, Force of Will is a wizard AA line, and AA spells do not trigger global cooldown nor do they need to wait for global cooldowns, correct? But something like lets say, flashfires, is a casted spell and even though it is instant cast, it triggers the 1.5 (1.75?) second global cooldown. So would your DPS calculation always have a 1.5 sec "cast time" floor no matter what? I am not sure if I am making sense here, but lets say for example that flashfires had no recast CD on it and it could be spammed non-stop. It would cast in 0 seconds (its an instant cast), but then you would need to wait 1.5 seconds to cast another. So its "effective" cast time would be 1.5 seconds. Therefore the DPS calculation would be damage/1.5=DPS, right? Would you then need to add a 1.5 second cast time to every spell by default? Help my melee brain understand please.

Also does any one have any tips on how to make a value call on DPS vs mana efficiency? Right now I am not really looking at that column but its just the damage per mana X the damage per second.

 

[knave23]

General consensus I believe is to use your AAs when GCD is on so you'd cast -> aa -> cast -> aa

 

[Myysterio]

ideally it is supposed to alternate nuke and aa depending on whether the ability status = ready. however, there are some factors such as lag, your computer, eq quirkiness.... you cant always rely on them. When i was using KA, i took my AA nukes out of my rotation cause the mana loss and lag between did not make up for the fact that sometimes i just wasnt using my real spells.

 

[lefidous]

ideally it is supposed to alternate nuke and aa depending on whether the ability status = ready. however, there are some factors such as lag, your computer, eq quirkiness.... you cant always rely on them. When i was using KA, i took my AA nukes out of my rotation cause the mana loss and lag between did not make up for the fact that sometimes i just wasnt using my real spells.

Force of will seems crazy mana efficient though, so why take it out?

 

[durango773]

*makes a cylindrical object, that is rolled along the ground, to more efficiently use energy* I am going to call it the wheal...

Also can just google "kizants eq dps tool"...

 

[lefidous]

*makes a cylindrical object, that is rolled along the ground, to more efficiently use energy* I am going to call it the wheal...

Also can just google "kizants eq dps tool"...

Does that tool include spells lower than Tol/NoS spells?

 

[durango773]

Does that tool include spells lower than Tol/NoS spells?

Why yes, he has kept active copies all the way back to EoK!

 

[Myysterio]

Force of will seems crazy mana efficient though, so why take it out?

Let me say it again... because if you are casting it instead of a regular spell cause the spell gems have repopped, you are wasting your time The only time to cast aa nukes is when your spell gems are greyed out. If you can be casting regular spells you shoudl be casting those instead. On my computer, KA was casting nukes, lagging out of a second or twothen casting an AA nuke when the spell gems had already repoped. it was a waste of time.

 

[lefidous]

Let me say it again... because if you are casting it instead of a regular spell cause the spell gems have repopped, you are wasting your time The only time to cast aa nukes is when your spell gems are greyed out. If you can be casting regular spells you shoudl be casting those instead. On my computer, KA was casting nukes, lagging out of a second or twothen casting an AA nuke when the spell gems had already repoped. it was a waste of time.

I guess I am still confused, because at least at my level, which is probably different at higher levels, the Force of Will line is not only insanely mana efficient, but also very high on the DPS charts, especially when you consider mana recursion.

 

[Myysterio]

I guess I am still confused, because at least at my level, which is probably different at higher levels, the Force of Will line is not only insanely mana efficient, but also very high on the DPS charts, especially when you consider mana recursion.

it doesnt matter if its mana efficient, if you're casting it instead of your actual nukes. they dont do that much dps. they only supplement between nukes. The problem is you keep considering yourself right instead of understanding what im saying :P

if you can cast AAs between nukes, great. If KA or RGmercs or whatever is casting AA nukes when your regular spells are ready, then its a bad use of your time.

 

[lefidous]

it doesnt matter if its mana efficient, if you're casting it instead of your actual nukes. they dont do that much dps. they only supplement between nukes. The problem is you keep considering yourself right instead of understanding what im saying :P

if you can cast AAs between nukes, great. If KA or RGmercs or whatever is casting AA nukes when your regular spells are ready, then its a bad use of your time.

There is a reason I prefaced with "at my level", but at my level, it seems as though force of will is still higher DPS than the other spells when considering mana recursion. But none of that actually answers my initial question which is, should a cast time floor be set at 1.5 seconds for all spells excluding AA lines in order to account for GCD?

 

[Myysterio]

There is a reason I prefaced with "at my level", but at my level, it seems as though force of will is still higher DPS than the other spells when considering mana recursion. But none of that actually answers my initial question which is, should a cast time floor be set at 1.5 seconds for all spells excluding AA lines in order to account for GCD?

so.... it doesnt matter what level you are. if your toon is Nuke > wait 2 seconds > AA nuke > wait 2 seconds > regular nuke > wait 2 seconds > aa nuke > aa nuke > regular nuke its just a MASSIVE waste of time to weave the aa nukes between your nukes. You should always be casting your biggest damage/time nukes and not your most damage/mana nukes unless you're running out of mana constantly.

If you get the opportunity to weave some aa nukes inbetween, more power to you, unless you're running out of mana before the fight is over or medding too much and reducing your dps. Its a management game. It has literally benefit to cast a 0 mana nuke, if the damage/time sucks. Thats why the progressive line for wizards is utter garbage.

 

[lefidous]

so.... it doesnt matter what level you are. if your toon is Nuke > wait 2 seconds > AA nuke > wait 2 seconds > regular nuke > wait 2 seconds > aa nuke > aa nuke > regular nuke its just a MASSIVE waste of time to weave the aa nukes between your nukes. You should always be casting your biggest damage/time nukes and not your most damage/mana nukes unless you're running out of mana constantly.

If you get the opportunity to weave some aa nukes inbetween, more power to you, unless you're running out of mana before the fight is over or medding too much and reducing your dps. Its a management game. It has literally benefit to cast a 0 mana nuke, if the damage/time sucks. Thats why the progressive line for wizards is utter garbage.

I feel like you're not actually reading the part where I say force of will is higher DPS than the other spells. The part where it matters what level I am, matters, because at my level the AA vs spell lineup leads to the AA being a stronger nuke than the current spells I have. This probably changes as time goes on as I dont think the AA will scale the exact same as my spells will.
I think you're also not realizing that the AA nukes do not A) trigger a spell gem GCD and B) are not beholden to the spell gem GCD. Meaning you can AA nuke and immediately start a cast of spell gem, or spell gem and immediately cast AA nuke before GCD even goes off. I guess that kind of answers my questions as to if GCD needs to be considered in DPS or not, which is that it does need to be added.

 

[Dragonslayer]

Aas don’t trigger GCD and can be cast, while GCD is active.
So using spells and Aas alternating will result in best dps.
If for any reason your PC suffers lags which does not allow to activate AAs within the time the GCD prevents casting spells, this may not be the case.

 

[knave23]

if your toon is Nuke > wait 2 seconds > AA nuke > wait 2 seconds > regular nuke > wait 2 seconds > aa nuke > aa nuke > regular nuke...

I think you missed what we were saying. You don't wait for the GCD for both nukes and aa's, you hit the aa's while waiting for the GCD to end while your spell gems are still grayed out. So instead of what you wrote, the timeline is:

nuke -> aa during the 1.5s GCD -> nuke -> aa during GCD -> nuke