Problem - PullerTank mob engage distance question/issue

[BillyBobJr]

This may be a very basic question, but I've spent quite a bit of time researching the forums and playing around with melee distance settings and I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. When using the PullerTank role, my Warrior will engage mobs very far away from camp. This is normally not a a huge issue, but in hilly zones, he will often engage out of LOS of the rest of the group, meaning my wizard and chanter can't DPS the mobs or mez adds. I want to be able to pull the mobs right into the camp location instead of engaging far away. I've tried adjusting the melee distance range down to 30 or so and still having issues.

As an example of where I'm trying to do this, I was trying to follow the AFK guide here: http://www.redguides.com/community/showthread.php/28231-Shard-s-Landing-Guide-Banescale-Serpent-Camp. When I go to the exact spot listed in the thread and setup camp, my Warrior is pulling mobs just to the right of the right bush, which makes him out of LOS for the rest of the group. I'm struggling trying to figure out how anyone got this to work with Kissassist at this spot, so that makes me think I'm doing something wrong. Even outside this zone, it bugs me that the puller always engages so far away from the rest of the group and hoping someone can give me some feedback on how to resolve that. Thanks in advance...

 

[ctaylor22]

Post a copy of your ini file.

 

[BillyBobJr]

Sorry about that. Here is what I'm currently playing around with. I am now also having an issue I had before where sometimes the tank will pull the mob back to the camp, but turn his back to the mob and never engage unless I manually hit the attack key.

[General]
KissAssistVer=9.05
Role=PullerTank
CampRadius=50
CampRadiusExceed=400
ReturnToCamp=1
ChaseAssist=0
ChaseDistance=25
MedOn=1
MedStart=25
MedCombat=0
LootOn=0
RezAcceptOn=0
AcceptInvitesOn=1
GroupWatchOn=1
CastingInterruptOn=0
EQBCOn=1
IRCOn=0
MiscGem=8
HoTTOn=0
CampfireOn=0
CharInfo=Warrior|101
Mount=0
[SpellSet]
LoadSpellSet=0
SpellSetName=KissAssist
[Buffs]
BuffsOn=1
Buffs1=Champion's Aura|Aura 
Buffs2=Huntsman's Ethereal Quiver|Summon|Ethereal Arrow|200
Buffs3=Reprieve Rk. II|End|20
Buffs4=Jungle Raptor Saddle|Mount
Buffs5=NULL
Buffs6=NULL
Buffs7=NULL
Buffs8=NULL
Buffs9=NULL
Buffs10=NULL
Buffs11=NULL
Buffs12=NULL
Buffs13=NULL
Buffs14=NULL
Buffs15=NULL
RebuffOn=1
CheckBuffsTimer=20
PowerSource=NULL
Buffs16=NULL
Buffs17=NULL
Buffs18=NULL
Buffs19=NULL
Buffs20=NULL
[Melee]
AssistAt=100
MeleeOn=1
FaceMobOn=1
MeleeDistance=75
StickHow=snaproll rear
AutoFireOn=0
UseMQ2Melee=0
[AE]
AEOn=0
AERadius=50
AE1=NULL
AE2=NULL
AE3=NULL
AE4=NULL
AE5=NULL
[DPS]
DPSOn=1
DPSSkip=20
DPSInterval=2
DPS1=Krondal's Roar|100
DPS2=Blast of Anger|85
DPS3=NULL
DPS4=NULL
DPS5=NULL
DPS6=NULL
DPS7=NULL
DPS8=NULL
DPS9=NULL
DPS10=NULL
DPS11=NULL
DPS12=NULL
DPS13=NULL
DPS14=NULL
DPS15=NULL
DebuffAllOn=0
[Aggro]
AggroOn=1
Aggro1=Blast of Anger|100|<|Mob
Aggro2=NULL
Aggro3=NULL
[Heals]
Help=Format Spell|% to heal at i.e. Devout Light Rk. II|50
HealsOn=1
Heals1=Furious Discipline|30|Me
Heals2=NULL
Heals3=NULL
Heals4=NULL
Heals5=NULL
XTarHeal=0
HealGroupPetsOn=0
[Cures]
CuresOn=0
Cures1=NULL
Cures2=NULL
Cures3=NULL
Cures4=NULL
Cures5=NULL
[Burn]
BurnText=Decepticons Attack
BurnAllNamed=0
Burn1=NULL
Burn2=NULL
Burn3=NULL
Burn4=NULL
Burn5=NULL
Burn6=NULL
Burn7=NULL
Burn8=NULL
Burn9=NULL
Burn10=NULL
Burn11=NULL
Burn12=NULL
Burn13=NULL
Burn14=NULL
Burn15=NULL
UseTribute=0
[Pull]
PullWith=Heartwood Bow|Ethereal Arrow
MaxRadius=800
MaxZRange=200
PullWait=0
PullRoleToggle=0
ChainPull=0
ChainPullHP=90
ChainPullPause=30|2
PullLevel=0|0
PullPath=NULL
[AFKTools]
AFKHelp=AFKGMAction=0 Off, 1 Pause Macro, 2 End Macro, 3 Unload MQ2, 4 Quit Game
AFKToolsOn=0
AFKGMAction=3
AFKPCRadius=300
CampOnDeath=0
ClickBacktoCamp=0
[Merc]
Help=To use: Turn off Auto Assist in Manage Mercenary Window
MercOn=0
MercAssistAt=92

 

[ctaylor22]

OK set your CampRadius=30. You can try 20, but don't go any less than 20. MeleeDistance=75, this is the tricky one. What you want here is to make sure it is greater than Campradius and that the area is large enough to include all the other characters in your group. If you set this to small you will have issues with the tank not attacking mobs while the mob is beating on group members.

 

[BillyBobJr]

Thanks. Giving that a try now. I am a bit confused by some of the other threads though, specifically http://www.redguides.com/community/showthread.php/33825-Pullers-Pullertanks-etc-tend-to-Hang-after-pull-and-don-t-engage-combat?highlight=kissassist+engage. In that thread, someone says that "What is the camp radius on your tank?? if its too small tank my not engage, if its to big, tank may engage to early.. So it is campradius that determines how far away you can be from your initial camp and still attack a mob that you pulled or is it meleedistance? I guess I'm confused on exactly when campradius and meleedistance come into play.

 

[ctaylor22]

This can get complicated, but a lot is based on if the tank is MA or not. If the tank is MA then what's important is MeleDistance. The MA searches for mobs in this range to target. If your tank is in assist mode, then the tank is waiting for the MA to grab a target first.

If your tank is pulling then there is an extra step that is added, and that is waiting for the mob to return to camp. The logic has been changed a bit in KA 9, but basically the pullertank will wait for the mob to get into campradius of himself, before engaging/attacking the mob. I will iterate this again, it is not campradius of camplocation, it is campradius of his/her current location. This is why, where you start your pullertank in relation to the other group members is extremely important. If you set your camp radius to small when using pullertank you can have problems when a healer grabs agro for healing the puller on incoming. If the mob never makes it into the pullertanks campradius that healer will most likely die.

Tank as MA set your MeleeDistance for when you want the mobs to showup on the tanks radar for targeting.
Tank as assist. He will be assisting off MA, So MA's MeleeDistance will determine when he targets a mob and assistat will determine when he engages the mob. CampRadius and MeleeDistance are ignored.
PullerTank Won't do anything until the mob is within CampRadius of self, and then next action is based on if they are MA or Assist.

Hope this helps.

 

[BillyBobJr]

Appreciate the very detailed response. That definitely helps me understand the pulling aspect and when the tank/MA engages. One thing I'm bit confused about is that sometimes my MA/PullerTank will pull a mob, then run back to camp and keep his back turned to the mob. The mob would then start beating on the tank, but he never turns around to engage unless I manually hit the attack key. When this happens, the tank has normally run a bit past the spot where I started kissasisst (camp location), but still within 50-60 units. This has occurred when I have melee distance set to 75 and a campradius of 50-60. If the mob is right on top of the tank beating on him, I'm not sure why he wouldn't engage given your description of how campradius and meleedistance work together.

Edit: Did a couple more tests using /mapf castradius and trying to recreate the issue where the tank pulls back to camp, but turns his back to mob and never engages. The behavior seems to contradict the point you made " I will iterate this again, it is not campradius of camplocation, it is campradius of his/her current location.", unless I'm just misunderstanding what you are saying. I set my campradius to 30 and had my mapfilter set to 30 as well to display the range visually on my map. I pulled a mob, my MA ran back to camp a bit past the original camp location and the mapfilter for cast radius showed my group members outside the circle of 30 units. The MA would just stand there with the mob beating on him from behind and never engage. This seems to be due to the fact that I over-ran my original camp location (not campradius) and therefore never engage. This only seems to happen when my group members are outside that 30 unit circle, which is where I stood when I started "kissassist pullertank" on my MA. And why is my pullertank sometimes over-running the camp location by 10-20 units when he runs back to the camp spot? What am I missing here

 

[ctaylor22]

Your not missing anything and trust me it works the way I explained it above. There are only 2 reasons that I can think of why your PullerTank would do what you are describing, 1. He is not the MA. 2. The mob beating on him is NOT the mob he went to pull.

Make sure when you start KA on your pullertank, that he is targeting himself when you start KA and that KA shows/echos that he is MA. The other thing I would try is to create a hotkey and use this when he is standing around letting a mob beat on him.

/echo ${MyTargetID} ${Spawn[${MyTargetID}].Distance} ${CampRadius} ${Target.ID}

This will let you know if his target, is the same as the mob he went to pull, and if it is in campradius or not. Give that a try.

 

[macroquester]

I made a simple hotkey for starting KA -



That way my toons know what they're doing all the time. If KA is set up properly with camp radius etc, there shouldnt ever be an issue with the tank not tanking.

Hope this helps.

 

[BillyBobJr]

I just reproduced the problem 4x in a row using a campradius of 30. I have attached a picture below showing the results with the output of your echo command showing that it was the same target and my camp radius was 30. You can see in the map portion of the screen my /mapfilter castradius 30 and how my group members (with the green X's) are outside the circle. Those group members are standing in the exact spot that I started "/kissassist pullertank". You can see that I over-ran my original camp location and that my back is turned to the mob and not engaging. If I increase my campradius to 55 or so, this doesn't happen. Again, just trying to understand how this is supposed to work, but it's definitely not consistent with Kissassist checking the current location of the MA vs the original camp location.

 

[Maskoi]

Right where you are standing in that picture with the same settings.

/echo ${Math.Distance[${CampYLoc},${CampXLoc}]}

What does it does it return in the MQ2 windows??

 

[saar]

seems like a debug of pulling might be helpful, the over shooting of the camp might be mount issue, my pullertank never uses a mount and i dount have any issues other then very rare times i dont get fully back to camp spot(slowly start creeping away from camp) specialy if im pulling from one direction mainly. Are you camping on a hill? Try using mq2advpath pulling instead of mq2nav? cause from what its saying is you are at your camp location, so it lost the camp spot. Best advice i can give is try the mq2advpath pulling, see if you have the same issues.

 

[BillyBobJr]

Recreated it as you asked. Here are the results with the following hotbutton for your "echos":





As you can see, I'm 46.5 units away from my initial camp location and campraidius is set to 30. I never turn to attack the mob. I also did a debugpull and it never left the WaitForMob routine.

- - - Updated - - -

seems like a debug of pulling might be helpful, the over shooting of the camp might be mount issue, my pullertank never uses a mount and i dount have any issues other then very rare times i dont get fully back to camp spot(slowly start creeping away from camp) specialy if im pulling from one direction mainly. Are you camping on a hill? Try using mq2advpath pulling instead of mq2nav? cause from what its saying is you are at your camp location, so it lost the camp spot. Best advice i can give is try the mq2advpath pulling, see if you have the same issues.

I'm not camping on a hill, but there is one behind me and the MA/tank will sometimes run behind the initial camp spot up the hill just a bit. However, I was able to recreate this same issue in multiple spots in Beast's Domain on completely flat ground, again with a campraidius of 30 or so. I haven't used mq2advpath pulling yet. It would seem a shame to have to generate paths for every zone I want to hunt in, when the MQ2Nav pulling seems to be working for everyone else.

 

[Maskoi]

ok now we need you to recreate it one more time.

/debugall
/mlog on

then post the log entries right after he kills the mob and is just satnding there. We need to see what loop he is stuck in. use this version the debug is better

 

[BillyBobJr]

Want to make sure I understand when you say "then post the log entries right after he kills the mob and is just satnding there.". The sequence is: I pull a mob, run back to camp, overshoot it a bit and am outside campraidius and end up just standing there. I never actually kill the mob because I don't engage. Do you want the log from the time I start pulling to the time I'm just standing there with it slightly outside the campraidius?

 

[Maskoi]

I want the log just before and after you start standing there

 

[BillyBobJr]

Here you go. I changed all the names to Char1, Char2, etc.. I left it running for about 10 seconds after he returned the mob to camp and finally manually engaged to kill the mob.

 

[ctaylor22]

It looks like the tank is stuck in the dowemove routine trying to run back to camp, but never gets close enough to camp to drop out of the routine.

To clarify what Maskoi is asking for. We need a log of when the pullertank is stuck with the mob beating on him. Make sure to use the /debugall to start debug spam.

Have you tried to manually run the pullertank closer to camp to see if he will take over and start doing what he is should? Don't turn on attack, just run him to camp.

 

[BillyBobJr]

It looks like the tank is stuck in the dowemove routine trying to run back to camp, but never gets close enough to camp to drop out of the routine.

To clarify what Maskoi is asking for. We need a log of when the pullertank is stuck with the mob beating on him. Make sure to use the /debugall to start debug spam.

Have you tried to manually run the pullertank closer to camp to see if he will take over and start doing what he is should? Don't turn on attack, just run him to camp.

The MA does actually return all the way to camp and then slightly overshoots it/runs behind the original camp location where I started "kissassist pullertank". And yes, once I manually move the character within the original camplocation radius, he leaves the WaitForMob routine and starts engaging on his own.

- - - Updated - - -

I went ahead and re-created again and this time included a log where he was just standing there after pulling and then I manually ran him back into the original campradius spot and Kissassist finally took over and engaged. I manually moved him into position right after "Beacon of Life" was used at 16:13:35.

 

[ctaylor22]

This is kind of crazy for your tank to over shoot your camp spot like that. Try dropping your mount and see if that makes a difference, looks like your not stopping fast enough.

 

[BillyBobJr]

This is kind of crazy for your tank to over shoot your camp spot like that. Try dropping your mount and see if that makes a difference, looks like your not stopping fast enough.

I have suspected it has something to do with me over-running the camp location as well. Sometimes when I run back, I end up running back and forth, back and forth 3 or 4 times like a rubber-band effect before I finally end up stopping and engaging the mob. This happens in every zone I've tried.

 

[ctaylor22]

I see where the problem is now, but I need to ask my partner in crime a few questions before I make any changes. You being on a mount is not helping the situation either, but we should be able to fix this

 

[BillyBobJr]

Quick update. Have been running without a mount for about 10 minutes or so with a campradius of 30 with no issues. Is it normal for a tank/puller to have to forgo using a mount? I didn't think so, as I've seen lots of INI's with a mount specified. Whenever I do use one though, I end up with either that rubber-band effect of running back and forth 3-4 seconds before engaging the mob or I overshoot my camp location entirely, leading to the tank just standing there. Not sure what's unique about my configuration that would cause that.

- - - Updated - - -

I see where the problem is now, but I need to ask my partner in crime a few questions before I make any changes. You being on a mount is not helping the situation either, but we should be able to fix this

Just posted an update before I saw this. That's great. I really appreciate your guy's responsiveness to this.

 

[Maskoi]

OMFG YOUR ARE ON A MOUNT!?! WTF GET OFF THE MOUNT AND SEE IF IT WORKS.

mq2nav is not made to work with mounts.

x y z coords reads different on a mount and the stopping thing

 

[BillyBobJr]

In my defense, I've seen multiple INIs with Warriors as puller using a mount and have never seen anything that indicated it would be an issue. Are you saying that's not supported?

- - - Updated - - -

OMFG YOUR ARE ON A MOUNT!?! WTF GET OFF THE MOUNT AND SEE IF IT WORKS.

mq2nav is not made to work with mounts.

x y z coords re different on a mount and the stopping thing

Just saw your updated post. I was not aware that MQ2Nav didn't work correctly with mounts. I was using the mount for endurance regen, but if it's not supported, I will have to forgo that. Thanks for the clarification. And not to nitpick, but something that important should probably be in the guide. It would have definitely saved everyone a lot of confusion and trouble.

 

[Maskoi]

You are only one of two people that I know pull on mounts and the first actually modified Kiss and ninjadvloot to work with mounts lol

 

[BillyBobJr]

Well, I'm fairly new to the site and again, nothing was explicitly stated in the guide about it. Getting all of these macros and plugins setup can be quite daunting for a new user, so the more information the better IMO.

 

[Incognito]

OMFG YOUR ARE ON A MOUNT!?! WTF GET OFF THE MOUNT AND SEE IF IT WORKS.

mq2nav is not made to work with mounts.

x y z coords reads different on a mount and the stopping thing

Can he have my avatar?

 

[ctaylor22]

Quick update. Have been running without a mount for about 10 minutes or so with a campradius of 30 with no issues. Is it normal for a tank/puller to have to forgo using a mount? I didn't think so, as I've seen lots of INI's with a mount specified. Whenever I do use one though, I end up with either that rubber-band effect of running back and forth 3-4 seconds before engaging the mob or I overshoot my camp location entirely, leading to the tank just standing there. Not sure what's unique about my configuration that would cause that.

- - - Updated - - -



Just posted an update before I saw this. That's great. I really appreciate your guy's responsiveness to this.

I think we got it taken care of. go here and get the update: http://www.redguides.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=9774&d=1464819160

Don't pay Maskoi any attention. He just gets a little over zealous sometimes. Being narcissistic has it's draw backs, but you can't tell him that.

 

[BillyBobJr]

Sweet. I will have to give it a try, although Maskoi has scarred me for life of ever using a mount to pull again Think you guys can consider this one closed. Thanks again for the speedy response. It was very much appreciated.

 

[ctaylor22]

Well thanks for the input, this kind of input is what helps make KISS a better Macro.

- - - Updated - - -

Can he have my avatar?

He is not as deserving of that avatar as you, well come to think of it, I don't believe anyone deservers that avatar as much as you and I am not saying this in a bad way.