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Mud Creator on WoW (1 Viewer)

F

Frybread

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May 30, 2005
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The man who invented our game genre of choice sounds off,

If you could take over control of one major MMORPG - which would you choose and what would you do with it?
I'd take over World of Warcraft and I'd close it. I just want better virtual worlds. Sacrificing one of the best so its players have to seek out alternatives would be a sure-fire way to ensure that unknown gems got the chance they deserved, and that new games were developed to push back the boundaries.
Er, I would get to do this anonymously, wouldn't I?
Click to expand...

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/games/a...rd_bartle_on_the_state_of_virtual_worlds.html

Why can't he enjoy the success of WoW? We've all played other MMORPG's and MUD's, there's a reason we keep going back WoW: I forgot what it was, but I know there's a reason.
 
Have you ever heard that if you put a bunch of crabs in a pail, you don't have to worry about putting a lid on it?

It's because if one crab trys to crawl out, the other crabs will pull him back in.

THAT'S why so many people are still playing WoW, even though I have dozens of friends who play and even raid a lot, who have been sick of WoW for at least a year, minus the first two months of TBC when people thought it might actually change for a bit before it got back to same old same old.

But people want to play with their friends, and unless there's some extremely hot new game that's come out, or EVERYONE gets super pissed at Blizzard for something, it's almost impossible to work out a solid mass exodus of the game like that. Our guild almost pulled it off for Vanguard, and despite the bugginess of VG, we would have.. but then it turned out 2/3s of our members couldn't run the game without a PC upgrade... so they stuck with WoW and everyone else got dragged back in.
 
derkaderka said:
I think that was kinda a compliment. To sacrifice one of the best for 'the greater good'.
Click to expand...

I took it to mean,

Good game, but a shit community and could be a lot better as an MMO.




Based on this line "I just want better virtual worlds."


Which I would agree with. WoW is a good and fun game, but with the instancing, the server transfers, and almost far too many servers and too many people... it's just too much. I think smaller games are better. They can focus more on one playertype rather than on keeping 5 million people happy. They dev team is smaller and has a chance to get more involved in teh community. The 'virtual world' in games without instancing is much more truly persistent as well. If you are doing something somewhere in the world, you are affecting THAT AREA of the world, for at least as long as you're there. Not just that area of the world for you and your group/raid.
 
Yeah that's with me. I started playing LotRO and then I missed all my friends from WoW and went back. :-\ Plus, I just know WoW so fucking well it's hard to move on when you know a game inside and out.
 
Well I can understand what he means, but I don't think it's WoW's fault. The other games just suck too much atm. Sure some are fun, but really I haven't seen any that have kept my interest like WoW.

Although I am going to switch to Warhammer online with all me mates, if it sucks, well there is always WoW :p
 
And you can bet that 2nd expansion is gonna be around right around the beginning of next year. Just in time to keep people from switching to Warhammer, or get them back after they try it.
 
Mordiceius mentoined that it's hard to leave once you know the game inside and out...

Do you think that could be what makes some people quit during expansions?
 
Blasphemy. Warhammer online will not suck in anyway or I shall have to slowly kill every member of the dev team. But Gw would pull away from it at that time though.
 
Last night I snapped, I was afking in WSG reading a book, while trying to get 20 tokens for my epic pvp bracers. I was talking with a friend over vent and suddenly it hit me. WTF was I doing, I was afking for getting pvp rewards.
So I tried to join in the fighting only to realize my crappy geared priest was spending more time dead then alive (lol arena season 2 geared warriors :() So I decided to give it up, I might as well try to spec pve and try my hand at raiding, but I think the end of my WoW life is near (OH NOES)
 
Frybread said:
Mordiceius mentoined that it's hard to leave once you know the game inside and out...

Do you think that could be what makes some people quit during expansions?
Click to expand...


I think in the case of WoW it was the multitude of raiders who had put in countless hours to improve their character, and then having it all reset so suddenly.

And then you have the non-raiders, who after doing countless runs of UBRS, were hoping for something new, and realized when they got to 70 that it was gonna be just like it was at 60, and the hype of "omg new stuff" wasn't lived up to.
 
I think the point of the original post was that the guy would like to see the market expand and more new and original games to have a chance. With WoW on the market people are looking to make a new WoW or worried that their game won't be able to compete with WoW. Even if their game makes it to market if it isn't insanely profitable it will be considered a failure. By closing down WoW he is thinking the players will all disperse between the multitude of other online options thus encouraging new games and such.

The crabs in the pail is a pretty accurate description of how most MMOs work. Trying out something new by yourself isn't as much fun as playing a known game with your good buddies. While you may be bored with the game your friends aren't and already have a large amount of time invested. Convincing them to abandon all of their work (play?) to try something new isn't always easy. So unless you can convince a large number of them to try something new with you, you may as well just stick to what is tried and true.

frybread said:
Mordiceius mentoined that it's hard to leave once you know the game inside and out...

Do you think that could be what makes some people quit during expansions?
Click to expand...

I was excited about the WoW expansion at first. I had already seen/done pretty much everything there was to do in the pre-expansion game. New content sounded like just what I needed. I had even planned out and prepared a ton of shit for an alt I wanted to make. Then I realized that I would basically have to spend another year playing just to get my rogue back to where it was pre-expansion. The new content would be fun at first and then I would be back on the same boring grind, the same boring raids, and the same endless cycle of gear farming. In a game that offers next to nothing beyond getting more and more loot. At that point I just decided it wasn't worth it anymore.

I'm sure I could pick it up again and level all of my 60s to 70. Then I could pick one and gear it all the way to hell and back. And then I could wait for the next expansion, level up if needed, gear my character up, wait for the next expansion, gear my character up, wait for the ne... I want a game that offers something more than repetative instance grinding/and never ending gear farming. If that was what I was interested in I would have never stopped playing EQ. I could do just about anything I could do in WoW and the game actually had a somewhat decent community. Plus Non-instanced dungeons > instancing.
 
Khatib said:
Have you ever heard that if you put a bunch of crabs in a pail, you don't have to worry about putting a lid on it?

It's because if one crab trys to crawl out, the other crabs will pull him back in.
Click to expand...

now that is completely fascinating.
 
Yes, I would have to agree, the community sucks. Bad. But that's because there are millions of people instead of just hundreds of thousands.

I think WoW would be the greatest game EVAR if they would kill the whole horde/alliance thing already and go to a more free community. Would be great if you could declare fealty to your alignment and be part of the horde/alliance battle and ALSO kill rebels, or join a rebel faction comprised of horde and alliance members alike. That way, you could smoke any fool who ninja'd PhAt LeWtTTZZ, spammed trade with 'Name that Murloc' or 'Nuck Chorris RoXXoRz'. Add on top of that, a SINGLE graveyard and spirit healer in each zone, loss of durablity in world pvp, or something else to make death a bit more challenging, and VIOLA! I think the community would change drastically that way.
 
I can't believe with the hundred odd servers Blizz has, that they haven't introduced a hardcore ruleset yet. PVE death penalty applies in PvP, open factions of some sort, guild war console commands where if two guilds are at war, town guards won't aggro if they attack each other in town, no char transfers in or out, etc. Those servers might have a high turnover, but I swear they'd be some of the highest pop servers in the game if Blizz put up 5-10 of em. I really truly am surprised that they haven't made any servers like that after almost 3 years.
 
derkaderka said:
Yes, I would have to agree, the community sucks. Bad. But that's because there are millions of people instead of just hundreds of thousands.

I think WoW would be the greatest game EVAR if they would kill the whole horde/alliance thing already and go to a more free community. Would be great if you could declare fealty to your alignment and be part of the horde/alliance battle and ALSO kill rebels, or join a rebel faction comprised of horde and alliance members alike. That way, you could smoke any fool who ninja'd PhAt LeWtTTZZ, spammed trade with 'Name that Murloc' or 'Nuck Chorris RoXXoRz'. Add on top of that, a SINGLE graveyard and spirit healer in each zone, loss of durablity in world pvp, or something else to make death a bit more challenging, and VIOLA! I think the community would change drastically that way.
Click to expand...

But all of that sounds VERY much like EQ2. O.o

If you're on the "dark" side and want to switch factions, there's a long and challenging "betrayal quest" that you can do, provided you start it at a certain lvl and complete it at a certain lvl.

The death penalty in EQ2 is more substantial, although not as "harsh" as it was in Vanguard.

However, in EQ2....PvP is virtually non-existent and where it does exist....actually...who am I kidding? It sucks.
 
Khatib said:
I can't believe with the hundred odd servers Blizz has, that they haven't introduced a hardcore ruleset yet. PVE death penalty applies in PvP, open factions of some sort, guild war console commands where if two guilds are at war, town guards won't aggro if they attack each other in town, no char transfers in or out, etc. Those servers might have a high turnover, but I swear they'd be some of the highest pop servers in the game if Blizz put up 5-10 of em. I really truly am surprised that they haven't made any servers like that after almost 3 years.
Click to expand...


I would definately play on one of those servers. Ah... The good old days of Seige Perilous......
 
here's the thing:

everyone loves to piss and moan and bitch about WoW, and how much greater the world would be without it. we complain about it DAILY on the site here, but without WoW, i certainly wouldn't be writing here.

WoW is the best game available. period. end of sentence, end of story.

i've stopped playing it before, and taken a long hard look at other options. i always come back, because it's the best game available to play. period.

you can piss and moan about a lack of a stricter death penalty; you can whine and complain about instancing, lack of free for all PvP, whatever the fuck makes you unhappy, but WOW IS THE BEST GAME AVAILABLE. PERIOD> END OF STORY.


people say 'profound' shit like IF WOW SUDDENLY CEASED TO EXIST< THEN THE WHOLE GAME INDUSTRY WOULD BE BETTER OFF, but what these retards don't understand is that they're free to make a better game... they just can't.

you can cry about how WoW just ripped off EQ or whatever, but look where it gets mac users complaining about windows: less than 10% of total market share. big fucking deal. if EQ was so awesome, why did people leave it in the first place?

RAWR.

shit like this comes up all the time, but there's a simple fact that people always intentionally ignore: people play WoW because it's the best fucking game fucking availa fucking ble.
 
P>S> COMPLAINING AVBOUT THWE GAME NOT PUCVNISDNSKIHNMG YOAU ENGOUTH AWHEN YOAU DIE SIS FUCKING RETARDEDEDDE3DDDDDD.


WHY NOIT JUST MAKE IT DSO IT DESTROYS TYOUR VIDEO CARSD IS YOU DIE? HAPPY NOW? FUCK!
 
Iso, yes it is the best available. That's why I have it installed and am working on my fourth level 70. I just think there are some things that could be done in game to improve the community. I can't complain about the game, I mean, fuckin' A, I went from ULTIMA ONLINE to WoW. UO had crappy graphics, a tiny world, but it was a helluva concept (IMO, i.e. the housing system, skill levels instead of XP, an extremely extensive crafting system....) with a pretty decent community. WoW's got it all though, great graphics, a huge world to explore, tons of big cities, they do a great job with WoW.

The only thing in WoW I long for is the ability to shadowbolt someone's face when they are being a douchebag.

This site is just about the best community available, and that's why I come here to talk about MMO's (piss and moan) rather than hitting up the WoW forums and reading the 500th nerf warlocks thread or ZOMG HRALP! UR GILD STINKS AND MINE ROXXORZ! At least here there is some semblance of intelligence.
 
isobelle said:
here's the thing:

everyone loves to piss and moan and bitch about WoW, and how much greater the world would be without it. we complain about it DAILY on the site here, but without WoW, i certainly wouldn't be writing here.

WoW is the best game available. period. end of sentence, end of story.

i've stopped playing it before, and taken a long hard look at other options. i always come back, because it's the best game available to play. period.

you can piss and moan about a lack of a stricter death penalty; you can whine and complain about instancing, lack of free for all PvP, whatever the fuck makes you unhappy, but WOW IS THE BEST GAME AVAILABLE. PERIOD> END OF STORY.


people say 'profound' shit like IF WOW SUDDENLY CEASED TO EXIST< THEN THE WHOLE GAME INDUSTRY WOULD BE BETTER OFF, but what these retards don't understand is that they're free to make a better game... they just can't.

you can cry about how WoW just ripped off EQ or whatever, but look where it gets mac users complaining about windows: less than 10% of total market share. big fucking deal. if EQ was so awesome, why did people leave it in the first place?

RAWR.

shit like this comes up all the time, but there's a simple fact that people always intentionally ignore: people play WoW because it's the best fucking game fucking availa fucking ble.
Click to expand...

QFT

Sidenote: I too keep "leaving" WoW only to return. If and WHEN something better really DOES come along (I'm not presently holding my breath)....then it will be "goodbye World of Warcrack!" Until then....I'm happy there is SOMETHING I can at least marginally enjoy! I have 16 toons and only 1 is lvl 70, the other high level is 67, and the rest are in their 30-40s. I have plenty left to keep me busy until SOME company really does deliver. So.... /zips lips.
 
Iso, does it count if I still have no interest in playing WoW again after not playing for ~5-6 months? Can I bitch then? It's not fun anymore. I want something that is fun. Help?
 
mven said:
Iso, does it count if I still have no interest in playing WoW again after not playing for ~5-6 months? Can I bitch then? It's not fun anymore. I want something that is fun. Help?
Click to expand...

I'm thinking Pirates of the Burning Seas myself.

Was supposed to be out in late June, but they didn't have their publishing contracts nailed down yet. I think it should be in within the next month or two now..

http://www.burningsea.com/pages/page.php?pageKey=news/article&article_id=10379

Won best in show at E3 from gamespot... for whatever that's worth. Really, REALLY, wish I'd have gotten a beta email on this one. Very curious to see how it actually plays.
 
Warhammer is what I'm waiting on, but I probably won't cancel my WoW account until I am completely sucked in by Warhammer.
 
waiting on warhammer myself, but learning slowly to re-enjoy warcraft in the meantime.


protip: just refuse to give a fuck about anything. it helps.
 
The thing i notice about wow is the love/hate relationship people have with it, its almost like a couple, people get bored, try different things, come crawling back and get fed up again. With wow it seems like its so good people want to get more out of it than can possibly be gotten from a game. Which is why im gutted that blizzard seem to want to go down the more of the same road (with crap from the sims like hairstyles, whats next, player housing where you can pay 20 bucks for a wardrobe set).
 
Things like player housing and hairstyles are important. At least as important as putting in raid dungeon XYZ where players can get Tier 600 armor.
 
At least everyone can experience new hairstyles, dance animations, etc... as opposed to 5% of the population seeing the super high-end new raid dungeons that are the normal "content" patches.
 
Hairstyles are great and fun and so on, but at best its a nice feature to slip into some patch, not a headline feature in the next expansion. Just look at the ticker in video they released, new continent: Ok , Destructible buildings and siege weapons: Pretty much a clear counter against conen, New profession: in fairness inscription looks kinda cool.

And then ? changeable hairstyles and new dances ? whoopdie fuckin do, followed up by new quests, new instances, new monsters, new levels aka more of the same.

So of those only one grabbed me in any real way, I think its a bad omen when blizzard are trying to wow people with stuff that is usually filler for some patch, seems to me like some executive has cottoned on to the fact theres a captive market so they should farm the crap out of it.
 
erm

This guy is a douchebag.

I wrote my own MUD. I used to play MUDs back in the day before I actually had the internet and I would use ice Zmodem to go thru a bbs that had a net connection and play it as a door game.

That said....

What the fuck? The problem with muds nowadays , as opposed to before when they were the mmos, is its kinda like paintball nerds or any other highly-specialized nerds. they think they are all the king of shit for playing, and look down their nose at others.

Theyre still pretending to be an elf in their mom's basement.

Ah well!
 
Personally I like the idea of new dances and changing my hairdo, its just a bit of fun, and to be honest I have seen a fair few complaints from people about limited character creation tools.
When I'm not raiding, instancing, pvping, I like to dance, I like to blow of steam in my teeny tiny Santa suit, while throwing snowballs at people passing by (yep I'm a seasonal quest nut, and love the holidays on wow :0P). I also hope we have player housing, it'd be nice to have a little piece of wow to myself, to customize and call my own, where my wolpertinger can roam around having fun (yep I liked the sims too).
Things like this won't detract from the game, they just give us something to do thats a little light hearted and fun, don't like it, guess what, bet they wont make you learn a new dance or change your hairdo, ignore it, and concentrate on the stuff you do like, thing about wow is it easy to pick and choose what you want to do, and still be able to get nice rewards for it.
 
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