MQ2Vanguard (Makes Warp A Wee Bit Safer) Beta 1.1

[Cobalt]

Re: MQ2Vanguard (Makes Warp Safer)

So...if we could hop quickly enough along the "path" then we may defeat the server side proximity checks without tripping the delta check or having to resort to spoofing the packets.

Using conventional methods, the only way to move along this path quickly enough is to use CDisplay__MoveLocalPlayerToSafeCoords aka warp. Every time you call MLPTSC you tell SOE that you warped, even if you don't move. SOE has several trackers in place that, if not overcome, will trigger something on the server. What conditions mark you is the subject of a rather arduous debate.

 

[Cobalt]

Re: MQ2Vanguard (Makes Warp Safer)

Whats the packet report when your summoned a great distance? Is there a check in the packet that confirms a summoned "warp"

Yes to the second question.

 

[TeachersPet]

Re: MQ2Vanguard (Makes Warp Safer)

Cobalt, you're just talking out of your ass at this point. If SoE had any kind of packet in place sent on MLPTSC then there would be absolutely no reason to include the Movement Deltas at all. Not to mention I've sniffed packets on and off for the last year and I have _NEVER_ seen a packet mysteriously sent as soon as you warp OTHER than the movement packet and even then that's not immediate.

Also, I know for a fact SoE cannot tell the difference between any form of long distance moves. Why, you may ask? Because I've been summoned to Qeynos Catacombs on 2 separate occaisions on The Sleeper and accused of warping by two different GM's and was returned to my group with a simple apology, both times because I was rezzed across a zone.

In fact, here is a screenshot of one of my first encounter which was with GM Zaltaran. (the second was with Deodan and he actually booted me out of game on my main and then apologized to me after I destroyed him emotionally from my second account)

(The black indicates either VERY hot cyb0r or sensitive identity information)

Oh yeah, and if you think that I'm bullshitting, here's another SS I found

 

[Spunge16]

Re: MQ2Vanguard (Makes Warp Safer)

you level 35 noob :P

 

[odessa]

Re: MQ2Vanguard (Makes Warp Safer)

TP, you've been sniffing for a year and you still haven't figured out the little warp/summon/etc flag? Keep sniffing, it's pretty trivial.

 

[TeachersPet]

Re: MQ2Vanguard (Makes Warp Safer)

Unless it's the 2nd tracking packet (I don't remember what that's for offhand actually) no I don't remember.

 

[Cobalt]

Re: MQ2Vanguard (Makes Warp Safer)

Cobalt, you're just talking out of your ass at this point. If SoE had any kind of packet in place sent on MLPTSC then there would be absolutely no reason to include the Movement Deltas at all.

rofl ok chief. Odessa backed me up on this one, I don't need to prove it to you, even though I already have, you're just not aware of it I guess.

 

[Hotter]

Re: MQ2Vanguard (Makes Warp Safer)

I want to see the hot cyborz.

 

[JCasper]

Re: MQ2Vanguard (Makes Warp Safer)

Unless it's the 2nd tracking packet (I don't remember what that's for offhand actually) no I don't remember.

in the second packet lies the key to the universe

 

[vearroyo]

Re: MQ2Vanguard (Makes Warp Safer)

even though a nice plugin if it works. And dont get me wrong i hope it works for you all that are using it. (Ive been footing it since september sometime). but the long arguements are just an eye sore to see.

They all lead to pretty much the same conclusion and thats "Warping Around can get you banned" with or with out this. The fact that TP says that its a safer way of warping is just saying that they may not catch you right away.

The fact that Cobalt says there are other ways to check it. May also be true.

So unless you have something positive to contribute then hell just STFU.

Also as a side note. if someone makes a plugin and keeps it to themselves then no one should get mad. Its not their obligations to share the plugin with everyone. Maybe they choose to keep it on the hush hush thats totally up to them. Not someone trying to call them out just so that they can see the plugin.

Another Side note, Im not a youngster, Im pretty technical, And I still see jibberish when i try to sniff out whats going on. It may be easier for some than it is for others. I mean hell ive sat there at my desk for hours with pen/pad/eq and sniffer going just trying to see what i can tell apart. Hell if i can get something going with it.. =)

Well whatever. Thanks for the plugin.

And all you guys still remember these 5 lil words. "Use at your own risk"

vea.

 

[prodius54]

Re: MQ2Vanguard (Makes Warp Safer)

Alright i warp like on a daily basis, I have a theory on how people are caught they need to be petitioned and a gm actually has to check logs or the gm needs to see it themseleves i doubt they do random checks but they probably do have an autoban thing up... But honestly since TSS hit I still warp on a daily basis have been playing for 2 years and never had an account banned before. Just dont be seen doing it is all i can really say.

 

[cronic]

Re: MQ2Vanguard (Makes Warp Safer)

For the record, there is a flag sent to the server on long distance jumps. It's sent when you MLPTSC and when the server instructs your client to warp. Odessa and Cobalt are entirely correct on this.

cronic

 

[TeachersPet]

Re: MQ2Vanguard (Makes Warp Safer)

Yeah, odessa finally explained what he was talking about on IRC. I'm working on correcting that now.

 

[Roguish]

Ha ha, TP that second ss was funny as hell. As for me though I play stupid when people catch me doing something er.. stupid.

I do wonder how they could possibly tell the difference between coth, res, warp, succor, etc. though unless they're just going to continue being that retarded with their accusations.

btw-- GMs should have the GM-gmname format i thought...?

 

[neumuno]

Just an idea are wizards less likely to get banned for warping since they can port / evac ect. Like zone into SG then evac to otherside then zone out. Maybe same for druids too. Never played a druid.

 

[FunWithUs]

Ha ha, TP that second ss was funny as hell. As for me though I play stupid when people catch me doing something er.. stupid.

I do wonder how they could possibly tell the difference between coth, res, warp, succor, etc. though unless they're just going to continue being that retarded with their accusations.

btw-- GMs should have the GM-gmname format i thought...?

It would be easy to put in flags when people get CoH, Rez, TL, etc (though very difficult to code without causing other issues in gameplay)... it's cases where those things don't happen, like lag, or when client and server get out of sync... They could force them to stay tighter in sync, but would likely increase the load on the server, as well as chew up more bandwidth.

I think they use software that brings these questionable situations to the attention of someone with access to the log files, so they can check the conditions and context of the unexplained event. They look for patterns and multiple instances of the unexplained event.

The fact of the matter is they already have everything in the game to catch you warping. Every time you use it, you are logged... It's only a matter of time before something happens, and a GM's attention is called to your character, and they start looking things over... What will they find? That all depends on if you warp or not.

If you are still warping, I would consider yourself on borrowed time. Some have longer than others, but eventually, they are gonna check your log files, and know what you are doing. That's why I stopped using warp after the expansion was released. It is my hope that the more time that goes by without a warp, the harder they will have to look to see that I was using it.

 

[adol]

Do you guys think it is more likely that, the new expansion, has warp catching code, or is it something that is present throughout the entire game?? I know a lot of folks have been staying clear of warping in TSS but not the old zones, seems, cross zone & and warping to named are what get folks nailed. would make short warp across a zone be safer? or is /zone ******* to the next zone safer than warp and zoning normal way?? I know this is all an educated guess but anyone have any idea. We all know its a risk, but there has to be a way to lower the chance of getting nailed??

Thanks

 

[Cobalt]

Just an idea are wizards less likely to get banned for warping since they can port / evac ect. Like zone into SG then evac to otherside then zone out. Maybe same for druids too. Never played a druid.

No.

 

[Cobalt]

The fact of the matter is they already have everything in the game to catch you warping. Every time you use it, you are logged... It's only a matter of time before something happens, and a GM's attention is called to your character, and they start looking things over... What will they find? That all depends on if you warp or not.

It is the belief among those that have researched this, that it is possible to overcome the SOE detection, since we have been doing it for months/years now, without any suspensions/bans.

Most people use warp because they are lazy or it's part of a repetitive macro. Definitely the fastest way to get caught. If a GM spots you, or another player petitions you, chances are you'll get nailed.

 

[Cobalt]

Do you guys think it is more likely that, the new expansion, has warp catching code, or is it something that is present throughout the entire game?? I know a lot of folks have been staying clear of warping in TSS but not the old zones, seems, cross zone & and warping to named are what get folks nailed. would make short warp across a zone be safer? or is /zone ******* to the next zone safer than warp and zoning normal way?? I know this is all an educated guess but anyone have any idea. We all know its a risk, but there has to be a way to lower the chance of getting nailed??

No new methods of warp detection were added to the client when TSS came out. Everything they are doing at this point is on the server and no one can determine with 100% certainty what exactly that is. We do know that the data being sent to the server is not 100% foolproof and requires scrutiny (automated or not) by SOE to determine whether or not a real hack warp was detected.

Warping in a new zone vs old zone has no bearing on getting caught, other than there may be fewer players and GMs in the older zones. /zone to loc is always the safest way to move around inside a zone or from one zone to the other. Will they put in detection code for this? Probably. It seems they have something in place on the progression severs, or it's just GMs watching closely. Again no one knows for sure.

 

[Cobalt]

All hackers are on borrowed time.

 

[Zulan]

Was curious, whats the difference between a mage cothing you and doing /warp? i meen coding wise?

 

[juggalotus]

Maybe the spell being cast, the location of the mage, and the text saying "You have been summoned". Only thing i can think of.

 

[EQManiac]

Was curious, whats the difference between a mage cothing you and doing /warp? i meen coding wise?

Not sure on the packet specifics, but the server sends you the command to warp. If the server sent it, its safe to assume the server was aware it is valid.

 

[TeachersPet]

Not sure on the packet specifics, but the server sends you the command to warp. If the server sent it, its safe to assume the server was aware it is valid.

No.

 

[Hotter]

So what exactly does this do now? I gather you changed it from the original post?

 

[TeachersPet]

I haven't finished with the other packet so all it does is makes sure you dn't have too high of a movement delta.

 

[buckeyesfan1]

So would this be good or bad to use?

 

[Devlin]

anything that makes somehing safer(even a wee bit) is better to use.. no?

 

[odessa]

anything that makes somehing safer(even a wee bit) is better to use.. no?

Except for when it doesn't.

 

[grog]

haha, I think I love you odessa.

 

[Crystane]

Heya TP, would it be too hard to make the plugin change all Movement deltas higher then 7, into a random value between min and max regular values???

Nice to see people working on ways to make our play saver

 

[Cobalt]

Heya TP, would it be too hard to make the plugin change all Movement deltas higher then 7, into a random value between min and max regular values???

Nice to see people working on ways to make our play saver

Random deltas are bad.

 

[uknowhoitis]

Maybe the spell being cast, the location of the mage, and the text saying "You have been summoned". Only thing i can think of.

Well everyones looking at the data packets sent/rec'd determining what those packets are doing and how to adjust them to make you /warp, /zone, etc.. Programmatically the client / server communicate with each other. While we see the packets are the data being sent between them only the client / server and the programmers and sometimes us if we watch the packets long enough to know what each packet does when we do in-game actions and we watch how they change when we alter our activities ingame (sorta trial and error). It is parsed programmitically on each end getting a string that it uses to adjust what you are doing in the game. This happens not just hacking but in normal game play. Im sure for every time you are coth'd, rez'd, etc... there is part of that data string that identifies that this is what is being done if not well SoE programmers take the shortbus to work... Now I have no clue what the actual parsed data looks like and Im sure that noone but the client and server programmers do... But it would parse out as something like this in simple terms:

PacketString = (Data [packets] sent back and forth between client and server)
> sent to client or server

>The client / server parses that PacketString into a ParsedPacketString taking that useless looking binary and structering it into a string of bytes that the server or client uses to call functions and make it do all the wonderful things we like to do in game such as attack, turn, move, cast, etc... While we see jumbled binary packets the client and server see what its supposed to be doing.

>Now I have know idea how the ParsedPacketString is structered but its more than likely structered into a custom scripting language when its parsed. Looking something like this gonna use a comma as the string delimiter...

ParsedPacketString == Action, WhoIam, Movetowhere

Now the string contains much more information than that, some of it pulled server side such as movement rate buffs etc... But its big enough to use as an example here.

Now the packets are being sent to the server, parsed and structered into a string like ParsedPacketString... The server takes that string and does Whatever_The_Hell_Its_Called function in the server side code to make you move. Because we all know all character data is server side we can pretty much assume that is what is happening... backed up by the dreaded rubberband effect (packet loss while running... sure youll see our character half way through a zone and all of a sudden your back at point a where you started) The client went ahead and ran your model client side like the server was getting the info but for some reason the server wasnt and when it realized it, it tells the client why are you at point x the last data i have is you being at point a... go there now /warp ya.

Now Lets say you hold down the right arrow key on your keyboard well now your looping the structering of data packets and sending them to the server, the packets are parsed into a string and that string is built over and over again server side from the movement packets you send to it. Lets say ya run 10 feet and you sent 100 bytes of data representing that movement... Where as if you were to warp you send only the beginning and ending location of that ten feet only sending 20 bytes of data... Sony cant force in programming to say ok well he moved 10 feet in that amount of data so lets /instaban... Because, sad truth is packet loss (lag) between the server and client can cause that. People would be getting nailed left and right for warping just for playing on dial-up and they know this.

So JohnnyBravo holds down his up arrow key and runs 10 feet, For this example lets say JohnnyBravo is slow as my gramma, the server runs this each time it receives movement packets.

Parsed out the data filling that string would look something similiar to this

ParsedPacketString == Run, JohnnyBravo, x y z

the server will take that string look at the chunks of data mainly the first one sent to it determining what function it should be calling server side for the client to be doing and from there do something similiar to this


On ServerPort####.DataRecieved Check_Character_Action

Function Check_Character_Action
if action == Run
JohnnyBravo.Location = Movetowhere (x y z)
else
blah blah blah more checks... ya never know action could == attack
End Function

When we warp we cut out the data for your other 8 /loc movements between 1 and 10 that would normally be sent to the server... and go straight for the gold.


So essentially yes they could addin a chunk of data to that string to show Movementtype for actions such as Coth, Rez, etc.. if it does not already exist. Now like i said keep in mind lol im not the worlds best programmer nor am i an expert or have any knowledge of how the data structures are built parsed and used in the client and server side code... But wanted to kind of show for those who dont already understand, how all the data packets ya guys are looking at and altering for things like warp etc. is actually used in a programmatical sense. So all in all finding a way to bloat the amount of data packets sent to the server would be the ideal way to go as far as masking warps... wouldnt need to have every single one that would be there but hop/skip would be better than nothing at least then ya can claim lag.

 

[Cobalt]

Now I have no clue what the actual parsed data looks like and Im sure that noone but the client and server programmers do... But it would parse out as something like this in simple terms:

Actually we do know exactly what the data looks like. We know exactly how the client handles it, because we can DASM the eqgame.exe and follow the flow of code when this packet is received. What happens on the server, is of course anyone's guess.

For example this is the rez packet structure:

typedef struct _PKTResurrect
{
/*0000*/ BYTE    Unknown0000[0x4];
/*0004*/ DWORD    ZoneID;
/*0008*/ FLOAT    Y;
/*0012*/ FLOAT    X;
/*0016*/ FLOAT    Z;
/*0020*/ DWORD    InstanceID;
/*0024*/ CHAR    PlayerName[64];
/*0088*/ BYTE    Unknown0084[0x4];
/*0092*/ CHAR    RessurrectedBy[64];
/*0156*/ DWORD    SpellID;
/*0160*/ CHAR    CorpseName[64];
/*0224*/ DWORD    Action;
} PKTResurrect, *pPKTResurrect; // 228

Now Lets say you hold down the right arrow key on your keyboard... to ... blah blah blah more checks... ya never know action could == attack
End Function

Again, we know exactly what the movement packets look like. We know exactly what data is being sent and the conditions for determining how each structure is filled out. There are several packets that deal with movement. Lag is handled in one of them. How SOE interprets the data no one will know, but we have hunches, and have been able to test theories. Data is sent to the server that triggers an investigation.

When we warp we cut out the data for your other 8 /loc movements between 1 and 10 that would normally be sent to the server... and go straight for the gold.

Essentially this is correct.

So essentially yes they could addin a chunk of data to that string to show Movementtype for actions such as Coth, Rez, etc.. if it does not already exist.

This is completely incorrect. Resurrection, COTH, and Movement are all handled through separate packets.

So all in all finding a way to bloat the amount of data packets sent to the server would be the ideal way to go as far as masking warps... wouldnt need to have every single one that would be there but hop/skip would be better than nothing at least then ya can claim lag.

Ironically this theory might work, but I don't think you know why it will, and there are already several better ways to fool the server and block warping data being sent.

A noble attempt at explaining how the system works, unfortunately it's off the mark.

 

[LemurGuy]

So what you're saying is that we need a Red guides 007 spy to infiltrate the SOE mainframe room being careful not to trip the sound, motion, and climate control sensors in the room (they must be spending our money on something and it sure as hell isn't R&D or marketing). He obviously couldn't /warp there because someone in the lobby hallway might /petition him and ruin everything.

Then he needs to download the entire server to a Blu-Ray disc ... (did you really think we could use non Sony proprietary media for all this?) sneak back out past the security guards, which is a challenge in and of itself because their pathing is horrible and they just sort of aimlessly warp around the halls instead of actually walking anywhere.

If and only if he can manage to get out of the building without training the guards on the visiting Sigil executives then we might be able to recreate a real server at home and run some tests on it.

Since it'd have to be a real server it'd have to show up on the actual in game server list. because of this we'll obviously have to make that server have specific rules that no one would ever want to play on otherwise someone might catch on to our plan. How about we make it so its like we're starting the game over from scratch, force players to use old gear, and hold the newer content for ransom to be released at totally random times. No that would be too awful. I know we'll just make everyone on that server play bards that have to twist songs manually.

And really don't worry no one at SOE will notice the new server. They're to busy banning people for warping. And if the progression servers are any indicator they'll just not pay attention to it and hope everything works itself out.

Now once this is all done we will finally know how everything in the game works under the hood, unfortunately they'll just release a new expansion and claim to have new checks in place and we'll have to do it all over again 11 hours after we finally got everything set up.

 

[TSPlayer62]

So what you're saying is that we need a Red guides 007 spy to infiltrate the SOE mainframe room being careful not to trip the sound, motion, and climate control sensors in the room (they must be spending our money on something and it sure as hell isn't R&D or marketing). He obviously couldn't /warp there because someone in the lobby hallway might /petition him and ruin everything.

Then he needs to download the entire server to a Blu-Ray disc ... (did you really think we could use non Sony proprietary media for all this?) sneak back out past the security guards, which is a challenge in and of itself because their pathing is horrible and they just sort of aimlessly warp around the halls instead of actually walking anywhere.

If and only if he can manage to get out of the building without training the guards on the visiting Sigil executives then we might be able to recreate a real server at home and run some tests on it.

Since it'd have to be a real server it'd have to show up on the actual in game server list. because of this we'll obviously have to make that server have specific rules that no one would ever want to play on otherwise someone might catch on to our plan. How about we make it so its like we're starting the game over from scratch, force players to use old gear, and hold the newer content for ransom to be released at totally random times. No that would be too awful. I know we'll just make everyone on that server play bards that have to twist songs manually.

And really don't worry no one at SOE will notice the new server. They're to busy banning people for warping. And if the progression servers are any indicator they'll just not pay attention to it and hope everything works itself out.

Now once this is all done we will finally know how everything in the game works under the hood, unfortunately they'll just release a new expansion and claim to have new checks in place and we'll have to do it all over again 11 hours after we finally got everything set up.

^^Completely unrelated, but i must say i did laugh reading this.

 

[uknowhoitis]

This is completely incorrect. Resurrection, COTH, and Movement are all handled through separate packets.

Thanks wasnt sure if they were or not and use all movement type action through one string with different signifiers identifying the type.

Ironically this theory might work, but I don't think you know why it will, and there are already several better ways to fool the server and block warping data being sent.[/QOUTE] Hehe I'm sure there are much better ways than my suggestion I am by no means an expert on the data structures sony uses.

A noble attempt at explaining how the system works, unfortunately it's off the mark.

/shrug was more or less my 2 cents and interperatation on how it works... Thanks for correcting where I was wrong hehe..

 

[Roguish]

So what you're saying is that we need a Red guides 007 spy to infiltrate the SOE mainframe room being careful not to trip the sound, motion, and climate control sensors in the room (they must be spending our money on something and it sure as hell isn't R&D or marketing). He obviously couldn't /warp there because someone in the lobby hallway might /petition him and ruin everything.

Then he needs to download the entire server to a Blu-Ray disc ... (did you really think we could use non Sony proprietary media for all this?) sneak back out past the security guards, which is a challenge in and of itself because their pathing is horrible and they just sort of aimlessly warp around the halls instead of actually walking anywhere.

If and only if he can manage to get out of the building without training the guards on the visiting Sigil executives then we might be able to recreate a real server at home and run some tests on it.

Since it'd have to be a real server it'd have to show up on the actual in game server list. because of this we'll obviously have to make that server have specific rules that no one would ever want to play on otherwise someone might catch on to our plan. How about we make it so its like we're starting the game over from scratch, force players to use old gear, and hold the newer content for ransom to be released at totally random times. No that would be too awful. I know we'll just make everyone on that server play bards that have to twist songs manually.

And really don't worry no one at SOE will notice the new server. They're to busy banning people for warping. And if the progression servers are any indicator they'll just not pay attention to it and hope everything works itself out.

Now once this is all done we will finally know how everything in the game works under the hood, unfortunately they'll just release a new expansion and claim to have new checks in place and we'll have to do it all over again 11 hours after we finally got everything set up.

Have SoS, Escape, Origin,and a gtfo hotkey. I'll volunteer.

 

[Headcrab]

or FD in and out