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Question - Movement Plugin
- Thread starter Raidien1
- Start date
I didn't ask the question right. MQ2MoveUtils and MQ2Nav are the vehicles in this situation but I am looking for a driver plugin without all that messy combat script.
A plug-in with a assist mode that will set a camp, assist the set MA, stick behind or front based on ini, and turn on auto attack. That would be the end of the plug-in responabilities.
A chase mode, tank mode and pull mode would be great also.
The plug-in would not memorize spells, cast spells, buff, heal or even kick. Just movement.
A chase mode, tank mode and pull mode would be great also.
The plug-in would not memorize spells, cast spells, buff, heal or even kick. Just movement.
an emty kissassist ini maybe?
The issue I have with that is the speed of macro vs the speed of a plug-in. I know there's macros that help drive your toons but a plug-in could do it so much better.
gotcha
Think of it like this... There's the movement side and the combat side of killing something. Either your character has to get to the mob or the mob is pulled to you. MQ2melee was the combat side with minimal movement since the movement side back in the day was the player. I am looking for a plug-in for the movement side with minimal combat.
Rooster
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You seem to be asking for several different things, you want something that does nothing but move... But also something that can pull and tank?
A simple macro will probably run a lot faster than kiss with an empty ini
Unless CWTN for some reason decides to release a barebones plugin, your best bet is a simple macro which is ultimately not that simple if you want pulling and tanking.
Chase and camp functions are easy and using a stickmode function too.
Understanding what your needs are would help, ie why don't you want it casting any spells? You almost might as well manually bot the character at this point
You can also have your main character simply issue commands to the characters to target and stick to a mob, or move to a location etc without swapping windows to them and they won't be casting anything
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That just sounds like a simple macro, and yeah such a macro would be just as fast as a plugin.
But as rooster says, you can easily craft some social keys that can make your monk stick to mob and turn attack on, and stay behind it. thats literally just one social
But as rooster says, you can easily craft some social keys that can make your monk stick to mob and turn attack on, and stay behind it. thats literally just one social
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can honestly say I've never had someone ask me to make something that does less :-)
As Rooster and kaen pointed out, I think you have a misconception about the difference in speed between a macro and a plugin. Both do things inside the game loop and aren't going to run faster than the game, so there's no difference in the speed with which they execute or respond.
At this point it sounds like an empty kiss ini might be what you want, just reduce the ini section sizes so kiss only loops through one of them and it should be pretty fast.
At this point it sounds like an empty kiss ini might be what you want, just reduce the ini section sizes so kiss only loops through one of them and it should be pretty fast.
Ohh man lots of people going WTF????? I will try and answer them all.
Ok first question pulling and tanking(in terms of this plugin) are all part of the Movement phase. Moving to a mob and dragging it back to a camp for other to help kill. The "tank" side is moving to a mob to engage based on a camp radius. Warrior, Paly, SK all do this in the exact same way.
I guess the biggest question in this whole thread is WHY only movement. Movement transcends classes and is broken down into just two major categories Melee and Range. There is sub-categories for each like melee front of mob or behind and caster do I need LoS on the target or not. The closest thing I have seen is CWTN plugins and that's why I used it as a baseline. The main problem with them is they are class locked and to get the milk (movement) you have to buy the cow (combat routine). I have licenses to all but the Zerker and BST Plugins. (the classes not out in TLP) Take the SK plugin just running the stock plugin on the TLP you he cast one dot and one snare as long as there is no resists. That is not enough threat to maintain aggro on anything and tank effectivity. I added a few lines into mq2react to make him chain snare above 75% hps and every 15-20 seconds below 75% hp and now you have a rocken Tank SK. I will say that MQ2War is unusable on the TLP. I don't want to make this a bitch session about CWTN plugins because in the end I am not using them as they are intended.
I am trying to shed some light on the value of a plugin that focuses solely on movement. The right plugin could be the standard plugin that all macros use to handle movement. On the TLP there is a lot of hide for this AE and then reengage the boss. There is no macro or plugin that I know of to handle that situation. I also very much understand that all movement could be broken down into commands issued by your main character. We all use macros and plugins so we don't have to do that. So we don't have to issue a command to follow, assist the main assist, move to the mob, attack.....rinse and repeat as need for X number of mobs you killing that session.
I guess I should start off by saying I only play on TLP and EMU. Currently i am on Rizlona and a Boxing TLP is the reason I came back to main stream EQ.
Ok first question pulling and tanking(in terms of this plugin) are all part of the Movement phase. Moving to a mob and dragging it back to a camp for other to help kill. The "tank" side is moving to a mob to engage based on a camp radius. Warrior, Paly, SK all do this in the exact same way.
I guess the biggest question in this whole thread is WHY only movement. Movement transcends classes and is broken down into just two major categories Melee and Range. There is sub-categories for each like melee front of mob or behind and caster do I need LoS on the target or not. The closest thing I have seen is CWTN plugins and that's why I used it as a baseline. The main problem with them is they are class locked and to get the milk (movement) you have to buy the cow (combat routine). I have licenses to all but the Zerker and BST Plugins. (the classes not out in TLP) Take the SK plugin just running the stock plugin on the TLP you he cast one dot and one snare as long as there is no resists. That is not enough threat to maintain aggro on anything and tank effectivity. I added a few lines into mq2react to make him chain snare above 75% hps and every 15-20 seconds below 75% hp and now you have a rocken Tank SK. I will say that MQ2War is unusable on the TLP. I don't want to make this a bitch session about CWTN plugins because in the end I am not using them as they are intended.
I am trying to shed some light on the value of a plugin that focuses solely on movement. The right plugin could be the standard plugin that all macros use to handle movement. On the TLP there is a lot of hide for this AE and then reengage the boss. There is no macro or plugin that I know of to handle that situation. I also very much understand that all movement could be broken down into commands issued by your main character. We all use macros and plugins so we don't have to do that. So we don't have to issue a command to follow, assist the main assist, move to the mob, attack.....rinse and repeat as need for X number of mobs you killing that session.
So throw speed out of it. The very noticeable difference on how my monk running MQ2Monk and my ranger running Muleassist react in situations is completely different. If they were ran by one universal plugin they would behave in the exact say way.
Take chase mode for example. During our fear clears we AoE down most of the trash. Any trash that is missed I grab up my 6 and go into chase mode. If anything comes into my extended target window the mq2monk stays with the MA and follows till he starts attacking something. The chars on Muleassist stop where ever they are and go into combat mode. Now when the MA attacks something the melee will close the distance and attack it but the cleric and chanter are still how ever many yards away. If both combat assistance programs used the same movement plugin they would all react the same way.
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It makes sense what you are saying, however thats a design difference between ctwn plugins and muleassist, and not a difference in it being a plugin or a macro.
I been using mq2war on rizlona, and he had no problem tanking and pulling, sure sometimes my other dps would grab aggro, but thats just how the game is.
but mixing all kinds of tool that are written differently by different people are gonna have some different outcome on how things work.
I been using mq2war on rizlona, and he had no problem tanking and pulling, sure sometimes my other dps would grab aggro, but thats just how the game is.
but mixing all kinds of tool that are written differently by different people are gonna have some different outcome on how things work.
I understand that also. There has be a difference in the way combat works for each class. Movement on the other hand is standard across a group. Zerker/Monk/Rouge/BST/Bard/War/Paly/SK/Monk all react the same way in regards to movement, same for the casters and priest. Rangers are the oddball and depending on your set up could fall into either group.
My main point is if you are running CTWN Plugins, KissAssist, MuleAssist, RGMercs, Modbot, XGen and so on and so on the movement of chars should be standarized across the board kind of like how MQ2CWTNBuffs gets used to track buffs.
What you're asking though, is not specifically movement. You've grouped it into "movement" as a way to classify it in your head -- but you're considering all of the logic involved in pulling "movement" and that's not the case. There are a lot of OTHER decisions that happen during those logic checks. Also, CWTNBuffs is ONLY used for the CWTN plugins, so yes -- it's standard across the CWTN plugins, but it's "standard" in the way that was designed by CWTN it doesn't apply outside of that. It's not used in RGMercs, Modbot, etc, so I think that's not the example you're going for.
MQ2Nav will do generic movement. As will MQ2MoveUtils and MQ2AdvPath. HOW you use those movement routines comes down to logic decisions and "what do I want, when?" All of the things to do what you're asking to do already exist, they're just used differently across the different macros and plugins that you mentioned. They don't specifically do what logic you want them to do. Those are two different things.
Let's say that you could snap your fingers and create a macro or plugin that has all of the things you want in a "movement" plugin. You would then say "I want you all to do the logic this way" and every one of the authors of the examples you listed would say "no." Because that logic is specific to your needs. Which, that's perfectly fine. As CWTN's logic is specific to his, the RGMercs crew is specific to theirs, eqmule's is specific to his, CTaylor's is specific to his, Aipoc's is specific to his (and on and on). It's not wrong to want to do things differently, your needs are different. But it's unlikely that someone is going to design a plugin or macro to do what you want it to do because those are specific to your needs rather than their needs. There are probably a lot of similarities in how they handle situations, this is a community that builds on ideas of others, but each of them is specific to the needs of that plugin/macro.
Most of the different macros and plugins are "Play this way" things. They give you a box that you're capable of modifying (on a sliding scale from ease of setup to time invested in setup) and the more customizable something is, the less specific it is (in general). What you want is very specific. "Hide around the corner from Nagafen when he does his AoE, wait, and move back" is not going to be in any movement plugin. It's a specific situation that's just not generic enough to write a generic movement utility for. However, right now, you have all of the tools to be able to do that. You could very easily write a macro that runs on a timer and hides when it needs to hide. The three plugins above specifically are for things like that.
All of that said, the answer to your initial question is no. Something that has all of the logic that mq2monk has without any of the combat doesn't exist now and it's unlikely to be built. Your best bet is probably looking into the behavior that you don't want to have happen and reporting bugs or finding out how to configure it so it doesn't happen (more likely with the configurable macros than the "low setup" macros/plugins). The alternative, is to write something that does what you want it to do and specifically meets your needs (and then share it).
MQ2Nav will do generic movement. As will MQ2MoveUtils and MQ2AdvPath. HOW you use those movement routines comes down to logic decisions and "what do I want, when?" All of the things to do what you're asking to do already exist, they're just used differently across the different macros and plugins that you mentioned. They don't specifically do what logic you want them to do. Those are two different things.
Let's say that you could snap your fingers and create a macro or plugin that has all of the things you want in a "movement" plugin. You would then say "I want you all to do the logic this way" and every one of the authors of the examples you listed would say "no." Because that logic is specific to your needs. Which, that's perfectly fine. As CWTN's logic is specific to his, the RGMercs crew is specific to theirs, eqmule's is specific to his, CTaylor's is specific to his, Aipoc's is specific to his (and on and on). It's not wrong to want to do things differently, your needs are different. But it's unlikely that someone is going to design a plugin or macro to do what you want it to do because those are specific to your needs rather than their needs. There are probably a lot of similarities in how they handle situations, this is a community that builds on ideas of others, but each of them is specific to the needs of that plugin/macro.
Most of the different macros and plugins are "Play this way" things. They give you a box that you're capable of modifying (on a sliding scale from ease of setup to time invested in setup) and the more customizable something is, the less specific it is (in general). What you want is very specific. "Hide around the corner from Nagafen when he does his AoE, wait, and move back" is not going to be in any movement plugin. It's a specific situation that's just not generic enough to write a generic movement utility for. However, right now, you have all of the tools to be able to do that. You could very easily write a macro that runs on a timer and hides when it needs to hide. The three plugins above specifically are for things like that.
All of that said, the answer to your initial question is no. Something that has all of the logic that mq2monk has without any of the combat doesn't exist now and it's unlikely to be built. Your best bet is probably looking into the behavior that you don't want to have happen and reporting bugs or finding out how to configure it so it doesn't happen (more likely with the configurable macros than the "low setup" macros/plugins). The alternative, is to write something that does what you want it to do and specifically meets your needs (and then share it).
All good thanks for reading. I guess such a plugin could not be made.
Rooster
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A macro could be written, I half arsed something for my bst on raids using mq2bst in mode 0
In 8 days I'll probably start back up with EQ and MQ2, because at that point I should have submitted all my work
It may not be what you are looking for, but I'll share what I properly put together in a macro... Since any time I started to try and learn plugin writing I found the curve too steep and my time too short, that's all I can do.
But as @Lemons points out, the characters stopping and not keeping up chase may be a bug.... And looks like he'll work with you on that for muleassist, which has everything in it you need with the options for more down the track
As for specific event functions you can use mq2events as a plugin base, or alternatively use an event.inc that all characters can add to their macros with specific stuff like hiding behind walls.
In 8 days I'll probably start back up with EQ and MQ2, because at that point I should have submitted all my work
It may not be what you are looking for, but I'll share what I properly put together in a macro... Since any time I started to try and learn plugin writing I found the curve too steep and my time too short, that's all I can do.
But as @Lemons points out, the characters stopping and not keeping up chase may be a bug.... And looks like he'll work with you on that for muleassist, which has everything in it you need with the options for more down the track
As for specific event functions you can use mq2events as a plugin base, or alternatively use an event.inc that all characters can add to their macros with specific stuff like hiding behind walls.