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Question - High end Group composition (1 Viewer)

arcburn

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Jan 19, 2015
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Am currently thinking of adding a 6th to my current group of 5 for some badly needed DPS ( 99 war , 98 Dru , 98 Chanter , 98 Mage , 97 Clr All accounts are all access ). I routinely swap out a merc Clr or Caster depending on needs ( mostly Clr due to the fact im allways hanging out in zones above my lvl range ). The group synergy between these 5 is really good but honestly if the mage wasn't in the group my dps would be horrible. Honestly my thinking is if I can kill a little faster then maybe I wont need so much healing power in the current group im running now , so hoping to get a bit of advice from others with a bit more EQ experience then I have . My current thoughts along this line are to drop the druid for a wiz ( my druid's parce is consistently the lowest in the group ) , to even adding a rogue ( assassinate mainly ) or a 2nd mage . So would adding a wiz , 2nd mage etc make that big of a difference ? Any thoughts on this from the end game perspective would be greatly received.
 
Not sure how you say that this is a high end group when the toons are not even level 105.

A lot DPS comes from AA's. If you don't have the AA's then you most likely are not utilizing the full potential of the class. Gear is another thing which you did not say what kind of gear they are in.

2nd, You really don't have DPS toons.
War - OK DPS depends on the gear
Druid - OK DPS depends on the gear and how much mana your using for each fight.
Chanter - OK DPS but same as the druid it depends on how much mana your using for each fight.
Mage - Good DPS but again relys on mana

If I had to take a guess your running about 20% mana on each of the caster toon on each mob. 5 mobs your pretty much out of mana and have to med up which is never ideal because you need melee dps to compensate so your casters are not using too much mana on each mob. Rog, Berserker, Monk would be better off.
 
Wiz is about 2x the DPS of a druid and this grp has all dps basically coming from the mage which I'm guessing goes out of mana quite a lot. Subbing a bard for chanter can also add a lot of adps but I usually prefer the crowd control from a chanter over a bard.
Adding another mage would definitely increase dps but reliance on mana.

It all depends on the camp you are running and how well definied your holies are. My cleric is almost always at 70% or above mana and that is never an issue. I run pretty much caster type groups and rarely have mana issues. However I almsot always have a wiz in the grp for the dps. Personally I would drop the druid for a wiz but having the extra rezzer is nice and that's a personal choice. Definitely would add a 6th dps spot and having a melee does balance things out.
 
Am currently thinking of adding a 6th to my current group of 5 for some badly needed DPS

I would add a ranger, zerker, or rogue depending on how/where you kill. Decap/Assassinate/Headshot landing on mobs that are higher level is insanely strong. My ranger can easily average ~40k DPS just with autofire on. Typically I melee though since it's far more DPS, but as a two box you're not worried about maximizing total DPS--just putting out a solid amount. If I were to make another DPS person (or two) I'd make a zerker since their decap can go off on anything.
 
You can get a lot of DPS with the ench/mage combo it'll it is done right. The druid ahoukd be nuke-healing and popping the right AAs for extreme dps. But more dps from another toon...For ease/utility I would add a wizard, with the advantage of DPS, ports, and less bot detection with a caster. For fun and chain pulling I would add a monk. :-)
 
I'm not sure who is giving people the idea that enchanters are not a dps toon. That might have been true back at level 90, but anywhere above that (and most especially in TDS) they are quite stout when it comes to DPS.

This is my group so you can see numbers, just some random fights.

Dead Apostle in 46s, 7035k @152932sdps --- Ranger+ pets 1852k@40268sdps (47496dps in 39s) --- Mage+ pets 1820k@39573sdps (56886dps in 32s) --- Enchanter 1497k@32542sdps (33266dps in 45s) --- Wizard 1490k@32384sdps (57295dps in 26s) --- LazyBeastlord 376k@8164sdps (9159dps in 41s)

Notice the chanter did 32kdps.. .he was also tanking. So many of his casts there were runes.

So later that night we did the hero mission in the same zone, replaced the mage with a warrior tank (need to be free to do CC there as the chanter.)

Captain Gurshock in 56s, 9176k @163850sdps --- Enchanter 3913k@69879sdps (81526dps in 48s) --- Ranger 2625k@46869sdps (54681dps in 48s) --- Wizard 1461k@26093sdps (73061dps in 20s) --- LazyBeastlord + pets 740k@13216sdps (13706dps in 54s) --- Warrior + pets 436k@7792sdps (7792dps in 56s)

As you can see, enchanters are not hurting and they are able to keep up with wizards(in the group game, not on raids) if you use twincast mezes consistently. Wizard can easily out parse us in the long run, but they should be able to. Mage can out burn us for a short time, but mages run out of mana pretty fast and NEED to be able to cast rains (which is a messy thing in a box group, as they will break mezzes.)

If I were gong to replace the druid (which I'm not sure I would), I'd definitely go wizard. A wizard has the best synergy with the enchanter of any class out there. Twincast + mana Reverb + IOG + chromatic haze = nukes in the 1million damage range during burns. Druid I think is very powerful, but I'd almost say that I'd learn to heal with the druid and get rid of the cleric for a wizard. (Thought cleric is the best healer hands down.) Druid has a nice synergy with casters as well, and can heal just fine for most content especially with a warrior.

Just a secondary thought, many of the hardest Missions in the game are built around the need to have 2 tanks, and 2 healers. Your current group has two tanks (war + mage pet) and two healers (druid + cleric). Filling in the other two slots with good dps is where I would look the most. Druid does fine for a dps that is also a backup healer. And I can't imagine this group having any trouble whatsoever with content in the game if played right.

- - - Updated - - -

This btw is what 3 hours looks like, when comparing classes together.

/GU last night in 10034s, 738073k @73557sdps --- Enchanter + pets 202623k@20194sdps (20194dps in 10034s) --- Wizard + pets 156077k@15555sdps (18366dps in 8498s) --- Magician + pets 121351k@12094sdps (16706dps in 7264s) --- Ranger + pets 118079k@11768sdps (14150dps in 8345s) --- Beastlord + pets 67784k@6755sdps (7886dps in 8595s) --- Wizard Merc on burn 35417k@3530sdps (26669dps in 1328s) --- Warrior + pets 10474k@1044sdps (1391dps in 7531s) --- Warrior + pets 9750k@972sdps (7260dps in 1343s) --- Paladin 964 ...
 
Again. You are solely basing everything off mana consumption. How many mana are you burning on each fight? 20%? within that time the consistent pulls you will not be able to sustain mana and will have to take breaks.

I play also have a chanter toon which I can do some good dps at times but i'm also burning a lot of mana with the multi bind of keys and aa's being used. Same thing with the wizard. If your sole dps is a wizard your burning a lot of mana.

Melee classes have easy access to use Rest. You get endurance at all which all my melee toons utilize it and they are stable around 30% endurance of constant pulls non stop. The DPS from the melee toons allow this as if *casters* you can't do any dps and forced to med.
 
I cannot remember the last time I 'burnt' mana. I can play all night and never take a break. If you're 105 and you have mind storm you'll never run out of mana... period. I can chain cast every fight, while pulling, tanking, buffing, etc... and not run out of mana on a chanter. Out of balance? Maybe. I do have good gear though. My wizard never runs out of mana. My mage does. My healers don't, paladin doesn't, and melee just use breather.
 
Thats fine for higher end toon.

As i'm putting this in prospective of the level of toons he has, i'm guessing the aa's are not all their by his post and the gear is sub par and maybe out of date of raid gear of past expansions.

You have to look at this of what toons he has for his DPS. His primary DPS is his Mage which is his sole source of the DPS. A good chance that mage toon is burning through so much mana based on how much DPS he has push out for mobs to die. The longer the fight the more mana is used from all character not just DPS. Cleric mana might be used too much based on the healing and prolonging the fight because of the lack of DPS.

Now if you add another caster DPS will it help?? Yes, but not enough to put put a dent in the DPS factor. At this time he does not have 105 and Max AA's which majority of ALL casters dmg comes from that. Merc DPS? OK might help in the mean time but based on his level it won't throw out the 15-25k sustainable dps based on the fact the merc mimics the level base.

I can keep debating this all you like but the facts are in the post itself of his primary source of DPS is the mage which will take time to die and also burn through mana.

Melee is the best source of damage with his setup that he has.
 
I played through those levels with a paladin tank + cleric + mage + chanter + wiz + ranger. We never stopped to med. We never ran out of mana. If you add a melee toon you're getting sub par DPS, period. Only way a melee would be an increase over a wizard would be to add in a bard and drop the chanter, then add in a shaman. Even then I don't think it would outdo a chanter + wizard.
 
LOL you still don't mold the model to his toons as you are thinking that they are well over geared with aa's.

In your model you have a mage dps( good), chanter (OK), wiz(good dps), and ranger( good dps dependings on gear).

That is a lot of DPS for your group which it would be easy. Your not getting that he has NO DPS but a mage. Even adding the wizard it still wont be enough dps. The funny thing I actually had to laugh about is you have a melee dps aka ranger.

You also have to look at what Level and AA's help with wizard and chanter? Haze on chanter? Wizard and the extra aa dmg nukes and focus? The toons are not even at that level.

LOL at this point the debate it between you and me and is just plain silly. He asked for advise on his current situation of what his toons are and I gave it to him. You can think otherwise but I think at this point you are so biased on it.
 
Sorry for taking a few days to post a reply have been quite busy here . I really do appreciate all the comments that have come to this thread , gives myself and others in the same boat quite a bit to think about.

Evidently I left out some info which would have made it a lot easier to pin point what I do and do not need .

As of today: Warrior - lvl 99 -w- 5559 AA all defensive AA's up to lvl . 67539 hp , 7095 ac grp buffed
Druid - lvl 99 -w- 6282 AA
Chanter - lvl 99 -w- 6153 AA
Mage - lvl 99 -w- 6045 AA
Cleric - lvl 98 -w- 6466 AA

All toons in a mix of T4 HoT up to T2 VoA group armor . Am currently in mainly T3 RoF zones upgrading ac drops as I can ( I play on a very low pop server where buying armor is non-existent , a few pieces do come up from time to time but RoF gear plus is never seen for sale ).

As far as using 20% mana per pull and running low on 5 pulls , that is not the case . In T3 RoF mobs con blue to red to me, ( 90% being lvl 99 or lvl 100+) and I can pull roughly 10-12 of these before I go low on mana and that is only the cleric that im waiting on. If I go into a lower tiered zone say T3 VoA I can pull 15 + mobs before I need to stop and med ( they con light blue to blue ).

The other day I did add a heroic monk to my 6th spot it seemed as tho it would go well with my groups synergy as I can later use him for chain pulling and splitting as needed. I can allways add a wiz to my druids account if I need that at a later time but for now I really like the 2nd healer in the group as well as the snares.

Im not sure how the topic got off on chanter DPS but there is no way in hell id give up or trade the chanter for anything else as of now. He does not parse anywhere close to the top of the list for me but when I accidentally pull 5 mobs he locks those suckers down fast, and as far as im concerned - job well done.

Once again thank you all for the help - keep those guides coming people like me need as much help as we can get.
 
Have you tried running a mana aura for your cleric? Also, at that level you can probably afk pretty well in Beast's Domain. I think a monk is a pretty good choice for your group. You should get a lot of DPS from him. A ranger would also be pretty handy. I use mine to chain pull too. There is back up healing (laughable but can save your bacon) and of course added buffs.

If you have to stop and med, I think you should open a post with the INI of your cleric and druid. My druid ONLY nuke heals unless the tank drops below 45% health. That really helps my cleric's mana because the mob dies faster and the tank gets back up heals. My druid is also the one who handles non MA heals.
 
Yes I do run a mana aura 100% of the time ( via chanter ).

And yes up until last week I was doing very well afk'ing in Beast's Domain . Although I happened to fall asleep in my chair & woke up to see a GM just standing there right in front of my group watching me pull away . I immediately just gated out and didn't hear anything else about it ( and no idea how long he was even there ) . But needless to say since then I don't do much afk xp grouping in any zone , I would hate to loose my toons because of it.

I would say 99% of the time I now xp in Grelleths just for the armor drops alone. I am sorely under geared right now I do believe. Lack of AC on my warrior is the only reason that my cleric goes oom before everyone else. You should see my warrior's health when I fight in Grelleths looks like a yo-yo ( 100% --- 4% --- 75% --2% -- 100% ) and so on. So much so that my poor Clr is chain healing non-stop .
 
Yes the chanter slows lol , turns out I spent more time on my other guys ini files then I did on my warriors .

After spending an hour or so looking into the warrior's ini and melee it turns out that the ini file I used for him had quite a few un-used AA abilities and Discs , so after swapping out the old abilities and adding a ton of AA abilitys and discs - he now tanks so much better. I still need to work on his holy's and such and am hoping that will help out even more .
 
What server do you play on that you actually saw a GM in Beast's Domain?

As for the warrior ini, there's actually not much to do. Holies or a custom macro is better for the warrior's stuff. Here's a baseline of a 100 Warr for you to play with (You might have to check some of these since I haven't touched these in awhile)

Rich (BB code):
downshit0=/if (!${Melee.Combat} && ${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Rest]} && ${Me.PctEndurance}<21) /disc Rest
downshit1=/if (!${Melee.Combat} && ${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Seventh Wind]} && ${Me.PctEndurance}<70) /disc Seventh Wind
holyshit0=/if (!${Me.Buff[Defensive Proficiency].ID}) /alt act 687
holyshit1=/if (!${Me.TargetOfTarget.CleanName.Equal[${Me.CleanName}]}) /doability Taunt
holyshit10=/if (${Me.AltAbilityReady[Fundament: Third Spire of the Warlord]} && ${Me.PctHPs}<40) /alt act 1402
holyshit11=/if (${Me.AltAbilityReady[Projection of Fury]} && ${Me.PctAggro}<100) /alt act 3213
holyshit12=/if (${Me.AltAbilityReady[Rage of Rallos Zek]} && ${Target.Named}) /alt act 131
holyshit13=/if (${Me.AltAbilityReady[Resplendant Glory]} && ${Target.Named}) /alt act 130
holyshit14=/if (${Me.AltAbilityReady[Warlord's Bravery]} && ${Me.PctHPs}<30) /alt act 804
holyshit15=/if (${Me.AltAbilityReady[Warlord's Fury]}) /alt act 912
holyshit16=/if (${Me.AltAbilityReady[Warlord's Resurgence]} && ${Me.PctHPs}<50) /alt act 911
holyshit17=/if (${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Ridicule]} && ${Target.Named} && ${Melee.AggroMode} && ${Me.CurrentEndurance}>9000) /disc Ridicule
holyshit18=/if (${Melee.Combat} && ${SpawnCount[npc radius 50 zradius 10]}>1 && ${Me.CombatAbilityReady[No Time to Bleed Rk. II]} && ${Melee.AggroMode}) /disc No Time to Bleed Rk. II
holyshit19=/if (${Me.CombatAbilityReady[No Time to Bleed Rk. II]} && ${Target.Named} && ${Melee.AggroMode}) /disc No Time to Bleed Rk. II
holyshit2=/if (${Melee.Combat} && ${SpawnCount[npc radius 50 zradius 10]}>1 && ${Me.AltAbilityReady[Enhanced area taunt]} && ${Melee.AggroMode}) /alt act 132
holyshit20=/if (${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Last Stand Discipline Rk. II]} && ${Target.Named} && ${Melee.AggroMode}) /disc Last Stand Discpline Rk. II
holyshit21=/if (${Me.AltAbilityReady[Warlord's Tenacity]} && ${Target.Named} && ${Melee.AggroMode}) /alt act 300
holyshit22=/if (${Me.AltAbilityReady[Banestrike]} && ${Target.PctHPs}>1 && ${Target.PctHPs}<99 && ${Target.Type.Equal[NPC]}) /alt act 15073
holyshit23=/if (${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Shield Topple]} && ${Target.PctHPs}>1 && ${Target.PctHPs}<99 && ${Target.Type.Equal[NPC]} && ${Melee.AggroMode}) /disc Shield Topple
holyshit24=/if (${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Knuckle Break]} && ${Target.PctHPs}>1 && ${Target.PctHPs}<99 && ${Target.Type.Equal[NPC]} && ${Melee.AggroMode}) /disc Knuckle Break
holyshit3=/if ((${SpawnCount[npc radius 50 zradius 30]}>1 || ${Target.Named}) && ${Me.Song[Field Guardian].ID} && ${Melee.AggroMode} && ${Me.CurrentEndurance}>7000) /disc Field Guardian
holyshit4=/if (${Window[CombatAbilityWnd].Child[CAW_CombatEffectLabel].Text.Equal[No Effect]} && ${Melee.AggroMode} && ${Target.Named} && ${Me.CurrentEndurance}>1500) /disc Steadfast Defense
holyshit6=/if (${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Unbroken Attention]} && ${Target.PctHPs}<95 && !${Me.TargetOfTarget.CleanName.Equal[${Me.CleanName}]} && ${Melee.AggroMode} && ${Me.CurrentEndurance}>1500) /disc Unbroken Attention
holyshit7=/if (${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Warrior's Auspice]} && ${Target.Named} && ${Melee.AggroMode} && ${Me.CurrentEndurance}>6000) /disc Warrior's Auspice
holyshit8=/if (${Me.CombatAbilityReady[Harassing Shout]} && ${Target.PctHPs}<95 && !${Me.TargetOfTarget.CleanName.Equal[${Me.CleanName}]} && ${Melee.AggroMode} && ${Me.CurrentEndurance}>1500) /disc Harassing Shout
holyshit9=/if (${Me.AltAbilityReady[Blast of Anger]}) /alt act 3646
 
Question - High end Group composition

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