Guide - Group Makeups - Guide in making solid groups for content - WIP (1 Viewer)

Keep in mind this post will constantly be changing, improving, giving you the most updated information, I can collect and provide to you as I take input from others' suggestions as well.

Good Day Everyone! I hope all is well in your neck of the woods, or in my case, grains of sand and cacti.

Every few days these types of questions seem to pop up.

"What is a good group makeup?"
"I am 3boxing and want to add 3 more, what works best?"
"Just came back to the game, what is the super l33t special sauce to making groups that can demolish current raid content?"
"Insert question about class/group makeup here..."

Hopefully, I can provide you with at least a good starting point, and we can go from there. Off we go:

1. Play what you are going to enjoy. For me, that means class makeups that work well together, can accomplish things. I do not like corpse recovery, rezzing, losing exp, etc. That isn't fun to me. So, I choose group makeups with synergy, variety, and goals in mind. I will say though, 6boxing Necromancers would be a lot of fun. But in the end, this is a game, and games are meant for entertainment. Play what you enjoy. Unless it is a Druid. We do not need more Druids in this game going for Kaen's army. If you really want to play a Druid, fine...just don't tell anyone.

There are 3 types of access when it comes to accounts. Free to Play (F2P), Silver, and Gold.

• F2P means just that. Free to Play the game with limited Alternate Advancement Points (AA) at 250 total, limited gear choices (Non-Prestige) and allows you to have an OK time in previous content. You are very limited and will not find much success in current content as an F2P player. Once you spend that 250 AA, you can no longer earn any more, and can only use what you spent. You must go gold to earn more.
• Gold is a paid account, either through a Subscription plan from a funding source like a Credit Card, etc. Or via an in-game currency called a Kronos. This currency can be bought from DBG directly but is much cheaper to buy from 3rd party websites at your own risk. Note: I am not condoning the purchase from these other sources, I am just stating they are usually cheaper. Gold accounts are not limited in any way, and you have full access to all AA, gear, etc.
• Silver is when you let a Kronos paid subscription run out. You back to a limited status, but have access to 1000AA, instead of the 250AA cap. Once that 1000AA have already been spent, you can no longer gain any more, but you are able to use what is already spent.

Let's talk a little about MQNext as well. Short synopsis, as I will really dive into this later in the post. Since I have shown above there are a couple of ways to have accounts setup, there are also a couple of ways to run MQNext resources. Freely available resources, and Paid resources. I am not an employee of Redguides, nor do I have any affiliations with the plugin developers, but I will say this. If money is not an issue - Paid plugins are the way to go. Hands down. No questions asked. No hesitations. Unequivocally. Specifically, the CWTN resources, Tradeskills (if that is your thing), MQ2Grind (if Paid Accounts mentioned above). Personally, I run 9 accounts, all subbed via Kronos, and am licensed for a few TS resources, every CWTN resource available, and Grind. If I were to do it all again fresh? I would do the same thing.

So, in essence your choices are:

• Free account, free resources.
• Free account, paid resources.
• Silver account, free resources.
• Silver account, paid resources.
• Gold account, free resources.
• Gold account, paid resources.

IMHO - the last two are the way to go, to get the most out of the game. But the choice is obviously yours, and depends on what you seek, your goals, etc.

Now, with that said, let's dig a little deeper. There is a term in this game when talking about successful group makeups and it is: The Holy Trinity

What is this Holy Trinity you ask? The Holy Trinity are 3 toons, grouped together, with 3 vastly different and very specific roles. Tank, Healer, and Crowd Control (CC).

• Tanks are the meat and potatoes of your group. Warrior, Shadowknight, and Paladin are your tank classes. Each of those have their strengths and weaknesses and each can be successful in their groups, depending on the other classes they are paired with. These are your meat shields and protect the rest of the group so they can do their jobs. Warriors are the easiest to play, Paladins are arguably the most diffuclt. Shadowknights are a nice mix in between, really fun to play, and bring a lot to the table.
• Healers are the characters that keep your group alive. Critical to succeed in the end game. These are also considered Priest classes. Cleric, Shaman, and ... I think that's it. Oh, fine! Druids are also considered a priest class, but if you remember from above, we don't want you to play Druids. As far as strength, it is arguably widely accepted Clerics are the best healers in the game, followed closely by Shaman, and then at the very bottom of the list, you have the Druids. Keep in mind, Shaman start out a little weaker, but once they hit 100-ish they really start to shine.
• Crowd Controllers are two basic classes right now, and both are strong. Bards and Enchanters. If you want adds locked down, Enchanter is amazing. If you also want some solid DPS and aDPS, Bard is a better choice. They both bring a lot to the table and you cannot go wrong with either, as long as you bring one of them.

Two examples of really strong Holy Trinity makeups: WAR/CLR/ENC and SHD/SHM/BRD - and are considered the most widely used setups for the Holy Trinity. However, you can swap in and out if you like. Remember, it is your choice, play what you like.

So now we have covered the Holy Trinity, we have 3 more spots in our group of 6 to fill. These are usually considered DPS, aDPS, secondary healer, synergy spots. These 3 spots can be almost virtually anything, but usually people like to fill them with classes that provide options for success in the way of heals, aDPS, auras, corpse recovery, etc etc. You have melee classes, casters, some really good choices. Some DPS choices are:

Melee - Rogues, Berserkers, Monks, Beastlords
Hybrid - Ranger
Casters - Mage, Necromancer, Wizard

Depending on your Holy Trinity choices, best group makeups can vary. I personally like to pair Bards with melee classes, and Enchanters with Caster classes. Here are some options:

SHD/SHM/BRD - BST, BER, ROG. My personal favorite! Excellent synergy, aDPS, secondary heals, corpse recovery. Arguably one of the top group makeups in the game.
WAR/CLR/ENC - BST, MAG x 2. Another favorite.
SHD/CLR/BRD/SHM/MNK/MAG. Great for leveling, exploring, pulling, good fun. This group is what I used to level and deaths were very rare, usually only to my own stupidity.


You really can swap in and out, and make things work. Experiment, have fun. Maybe the right combo that wins the game is out there, waiting to be found.

Another question that is routinely asked: I want to play my <insert class here> and have my tank do tank stuff for me. Can I?

Why yes, you can! Is it ideal? Probably not. I tried it with Monk, and it worked ok. But I found it much easier to drive, move my groups around when I made my Driver toon, my main tank. SHD/WAR. Things ran smoother, easier to control, more reactive to situations, etc. Once I switched over to Tank Driver, never looked back.

Additional Information:

Plugins/Resources I use. Many have asked me about plugins/resources, and what I use. I chose the paid route and will do it again and again. IMHO - pay to win is where it is at.

CWTN - I won't link every CWTN plugin, but I own them all. Hands down the best investment ever!!!! Buy them, use them, argue with Sic about them because he is 99.9999% right, and you will maybe, just maybe be .0001% right. Maybe, on a good day.

Grind - https://www.redguides.com/community/resources/mq2grind.1967/


Lua and Macro Resources:

Tradeskill Next - https://www.redguides.com/community/resources/tradeskill-construction-set-next.2301/

Explorer - https://www.redguides.com/community...-an-explorer-traveler-achievement-macro.1261/

Buttonmaster - https://www.redguides.com/community/resources/button-master.2174/

BoxHud - https://www.redguides.com/community/resources/boxhud.2088/

Lootly - https://www.redguides.com/community/resources/lootly.2196/

Lua Event Manager - https://www.redguides.com/community/resources/mighty-lua-event-manager.2539/

Magellan - https://www.redguides.com/community/resources/magellan-travel-utility.2422/

Don't Make Me Say It - https://www.redguides.com/community/resources/dont-make-me-say-it.2399/

Scriber - https://www.redguides.com/community/resources/scriber.2391/


Ok, that's it for now. Please revisit, add your own experience/insight. Thank you!

 

[Shadow]

I dunno, even in raid situations, I typically see Necro / Mages topping parses. Not to say that rogues / zerkers and other melee dps can't as well, but I know casters can perform as well as melee in terms of dps.

The only thing that I think may be a difference would be an optimal adps set up for a melee group vs a sub par adps set up for casters. The glaring example I would think is a lack of bard adps which will hinder most casters. I know the older thought process of bard is for melees and ench is for casters doesn't apply as well in current EQ. I subscribe to the bard is for everyone and makes everything better philosophy now lol!

This ^^^^ BRD is for everyone!

 

[hammertime6505]

Why bst x2? Their dps is not as good as rogue/ber (although not bad) and no real value of the second one. Def a unique group composition.

ahh crap i meant to put that after ther zerker no the beast thanks for catching that for me!

 

[Shadow]

ahh crap i meant to put that after ther zerker no the beast thanks for catching that for me!

I knew it was a mistake because NO ONE in their sane mind would run double BST.

 

[hammertime6505]

I knew it was a mistake because NO ONE in their sane mind would run double BST.

Hahaha Most definitely my dude.

 

[Eltai86]

Why bst x2? Their dps is not as good as rogue/ber (although not bad) and no real value of the second one. Def a unique group composition.

Then you haven’t given your bst enough love or your never pausing ever to let their mana catch up.

 

[Naeeldar]

I dunno, even in raid situations, I typically see Necro / Mages topping parses. Not to say that rogues / zerkers and other melee dps can't as well, but I know casters can perform as well as melee in terms of dps.

The only thing that I think may be a difference would be an optimal adps set up for a melee group vs a sub par adps set up for casters. The glaring example I would think is a lack of bard adps which will hinder most casters. I know the older thought process of bard is for melees and ench is for casters doesn't apply as well in current EQ. I subscribe to the bard is for everyone and makes everything better philosophy now lol!

Necros in end game parses or on say a mob like zlandi (when it was current) can 100% top parses. And should. They have time to ramp. I’m talking about raid geared chars in the group game. I expected the Mage to be able to sustain over a million dps. It’s definitely close and I suspect when I add the shaman back in even closer. I’ll have to test the bst impact on mage.

I always thought bard was for everybody. Never doubted that just thought ench would be for casters at least. If you ask me they need as much love as monks right now.

Then you haven’t given your bst enough love or your never pausing ever to let their mana catch up.

BST is maxed aa and full tol t2 raid. Plenty of love. HE puts up good numbers no where near what the rogues do. And definiteyl not sustained like thye do.

And thats probably the bigger thing. Rogue/ber can pretty much run non stop for hours with no real endurance issues. Mage is out of mana in not time. Bst can go a long time especially way my melee groups run.

Necros if we had endless big hp mobs could be fun. And maybe thats one thought we could use some variation in the group game.

But realistically I can’t find a single group that will compete in the group game that can compete with Sk, Shm, Brd, Bst, and 2x rogue or 2 ber. Not when max aa and reasonable end game raid gear setup

 

[Kumaro]

I'm gonna be really blunt and this is coming from someone who knows several of the best bsts in game and also has multiple bsts and monks of his own that he utilizes in raids. The issue here is likely your bsts or the support that your bsts are being given, not the class itself here in a raid setting. Are your bsts on a 10 min fight breaking in just below mages/necros? On these sorts of durations what classes are outparsing the bsts?

Bsts are in a kinda unique position, they benefit entirely from their own adps support they have while also being able to benefit from almost any melee or caster adps support available as well. They are also capable of multidotting mobs so are able to perform decently well in modern raid settings where there are a lot of adds that can be bombed with dots/aes.

If I were to guess their logic is probably something along the lines of: The bst is/can contributing pets still towards the mage "of many" line though the importance is a bit less now with the most recent patch. They are also adding additional mana regen through SE but also through Paragon. A significant portion of Bst and ranger dps still comes from casting spells so the enchanter also does provide a boost to them.

This such great information. Returning with a high lvl monk, but was interested in trying something else.

 

[Allurex]

my 6 team always.. Paladin,bard,beastlord,mage,shaman,enchanter.. wont always kill the fastest but alot of healing and pets pets pets...this set up has carried me from 1 to 120 there are expansions where they shine brighter then other groups due to undead and the pallys slay.. but outside those you can be comfortable in being able to do anything u want knowing u will get the job done..

 

[Draizix]

Thanks for the read.. I was planning on doing a group here that I actually haven't touched hardly ever. I was a main Ranger way back when pretty much.

I'm gonna do SHD/SHM/BRD/BST/BER/ROG. I was reading here and on Almar's guides about it all.

My question is, in Almar's guides they mention some people could get "annoyed" if they see the melee group doing boxing things or sticking to targets etc with the melee macro. Is that gonna be a big thing if people happen to see me boxing etc? I'm planning on going on Firiona when I restart if that changes something.

 

[truculent1]

Thanks for the read.. I was planning on doing a group here that I actually haven't touched hardly ever. I was a main Ranger way back when pretty much.

I'm gonna do SHD/SHM/BRD/BST/BER/ROG. I was reading here and on Almar's guides about it all.

My question is, in Almar's guides they mention some people could get "annoyed" if they see the melee group doing boxing things or sticking to targets etc with the melee macro. Is that gonna be a big thing if people happen to see me boxing etc? I'm planning on going on Firiona when I restart if that changes something.

There will always be haters. Just keep to yourself and don't step on toes.

 

[2ndGoat]

Thanks for the read.. I was planning on doing a group here that I actually haven't touched hardly ever. I was a main Ranger way back when pretty much.

I'm gonna do SHD/SHM/BRD/BST/BER/ROG. I was reading here and on Almar's guides about it all.

My question is, in Almar's guides they mention some people could get "annoyed" if they see the melee group doing boxing things or sticking to targets etc with the melee macro. Is that gonna be a big thing if people happen to see me boxing etc? I'm planning on going on Firiona when I restart if that changes something.

Melee groups are far, far more obvious when boxing with software like MQ. Imagine watching 4 toons all start pathing toward the mob at the same time, all set up in perfect position, reposition immediately as the mob shifts, all in herky-jerky movements. There are some things you can do to make it look less automated, but the fact is, melee groups are far more obvious when using automation. Caster groups can all sit on their horses and spam spells and it's dang near impossible to tell they're all casting at the same time unless you're really paying attention.
As others say, be cautious and it's often best to keep to yourself as much as possible.

 

[DEADCiTiES]

The efficiency at which your characters assist the MA/MT can be a giveaway. Your melee dps will also get behind the target in a coordinated effort and return to camp after the enemy has been slain. Characters who can stand in place to attack can draw less attention to characters being automated. You can hunt in less populated zones and instances to have less eyes on your activity.

sorry for saying the same thing ^^ I didn't refresh in time.

 

[Draizix]

Thanks for the replies.. And yeah I figured as much. I'll just try to keep to myself not like you all said "don't step on anyone's toes" while doing so.

 

[johnreb1969]

I know this isnt a new thread and have read most of the posts, but have a question. I am running sk, bst, ranger, shm, bard, mage currently. I have the mage mainlyt bc mages are powerful and coth is nice, but have been told I would be better off with a zerk or rog as my 6th due to synergy. I have read some of the synergy threads and still dont really understand the benefits. Thoughts on the switch from mage to zerk or rog?

 

[Darkwynd3]

I know this isnt a new thread and have read most of the posts, but have a question. I am running sk, bst, ranger, shm, bard, mage currently. I have the mage mainlyt bc mages are powerful and coth is nice, but have been told I would be better off with a zerk or rog as my 6th due to synergy. I have read some of the synergy threads and still dont really understand the benefits. Thoughts on the switch from mage to zerk or rog?

The rogue or zerker will be marginally better, but the mage gets help from the ranger and the pets. If you like the mage, keep it. There’s nothing that group can’t do, and coth is nice for movement.

 

[johnreb1969]

The rogue or zerker will be marginally better, but the mage gets help from the ranger and the pets. If you like the mage, keep it. There’s nothing that group can’t do, and coth is nice for movement.

Thank you!

 

[burdsjm]

I have found that War/Shm/Cleric/Bard/Rogue/Mage from beginning to end to be the best all-around group. From 1 to 125 group to raid content. CoH is super handy boxing.

Warriors go longer and take a much better beating than SK and Pallys, who depend on DPSing and self-heals/taps.

This is a great debate; no one will agree on this.

Raid groups synergy definitely use Sic's chart above.

 

[zarroth]

Yah, I like war paired with cleric more than paired with sham. Cleric over-heals on war pretty much means you don't have to bother being hard core geared to do content in the group game. I Haven't even bothered with augs on my war for 5 or 6 years now. If one drops, I'll pop it in but my raid toon, being bard, gets preference. Plus, war gets up and running after a combat res much more smoothly imo. min/maxing for DPS isn't really necessary for the group game either, so I no longer do that and the game has become much more enjoyable.

 

[Trogdor]

Ive been a bard main for years. Everyone loves a bard .

But seriously, best mini group I always used to own with was a when I partnered with a SK who botted a Shammy. I endorse that core lol.

Thanks for helping me figure out what classes I wanted to round out my group with btw!

 

[Jostan]

Thinking of striking up a group for the new tlp. Planes of Power is the furthest I've gotten. That being said, I've seen the power of the enchanter and charmed pets and also know how much of a hassle they can be. You really don't have time to afk, etc. This go round and after alot of searching I was thinking of just doing mostly melee. Something like SK, SHM, BRD, MNK,MNK, Druid (for ports for the few expansions then switching to Rogue. I'll probably change one of the MNKs to another Rogue over time as the Monk dps seems to slow down. Is the lack of the dps from the charmed pets that noticeable opposed to having two MNKS? I'm so used to playing casters and my last group I tinkered with was a lower level war (50 something) I was working on, 60 enc, 60 mage, 60 mage and a 60 druid. I would go to places like chardok and charm on both the enc and dru, snare the enemy send in all the pets and nuke maybe once on the mages if I had to. Since then I've picked up another small pc so I can add another dps to the mix. I don't use MQ so I'm worried that boxing that many melee might be an issue opposed to just making classes with a macro or two. I guess I'm wondering if the dps would be similar?