Question - Enchanter vs Bard vs Shaman

[MNkenr]

Hello,

I am looking for insight from others.

~TLDR
Which group will give better over all DPS in a grinding/afk situation at level 100. SK, Cleric, Wizard, Bard, Shaman and Rogue, or SK-Cleric-Bard-Enchanter-Wizard-Mage(or other caster/merc instead of a mage)?



I currently use MQ2 to 6-box. My team is currently level 93-100, and this is the first time I have ever been at these levels, and I am not familiar with the class dynamics here. The last time I played EQ I did a 6 box many years ago with a level range of 50-55.

Current setup is SK, Cleric, Wizard, Bard, Shaman and Rogue.

After taking some time studying the spells/songs of the Shaman, Bard and Enchanter I have more questions.

I want to restructure the group.
The SK and Cleric will remain in any case. The SK because of its tanking, and the Cleric so I can do battle res.

I am thinking that I can drop the Shaman and/or Bard and add in an Enchanter. If adding in an Enchanter then I would drop the rogue and replace with caster DPS.

Pros of the Bard in my situation.
Overhaste, +spell damage, mana/HP/End regen, songs stack with spell buffs.

The Shaman brings the following to the Group
HP regen
secondary healing (etc counterbias)
Slow (75%)
Buffs (includes a End buff)
Debuffs
+Max HP
DoTs
~5.5 ratio DD

An Enchanter brings the following.
Mana Regen (with +Max mana and int/wis buff)
Rune (a substitute for secondary healing?)
Slow (70%)
Buffs (More than the Shaman, no end buff)
Debuffs (More than the Shaman)
+Max HP ( not as much as the Shaman, and amount is not really relevant)
DoT (not as high ratio and Shaman, but includes unique debuff)
~ 6.2 ration DD (includes a Rune effect)
Charm (is this even viable DPS?)

Help me out here. I can not see any benefit to having a Shaman over an Enchanter. A shaman gets HP regen, a very slight increase in slow and healing. I am finding that with a boxed Cleric all healing is being handled well. Downtime is due to waiting on mana regen. Perhaps the cleric is not healing as much due to counterbias and regen. I would imagine that the Enchanter Rune, greater debuffs and shorter fights due to more DPS would counteract not having counterbias and HP regen.

My thought is to keep the bard since songs stack with spells. Would not need the pulling skills of the bard, and would just use it for the overhaste, +spell damage and regen)

I would replace the shaman with an enchanter as I do not see what the Shaman provides that an Enchanter cant. Because the ADPS is more caster heavy, I would replace the rogue with perhaps a Mage or Wizard Merc.

Would the following group give more grind/afk DPS?
SK-Cleric-Bard-Enchanter-Wizard-Mage?

 

[playj]

I think the rule of thumb is that Shaman rocks for melee heavy groups and Enchanter more for caster heavy groups. You are sort of in middle.

Shaman Talisman of Snow Leopard is a pretty significant melee boost (also applies to pets! so SK pet, mage pet, even shaman pet).

Historically I have always liked SK/Shaman combo.

Also, Bard and Enchanter stack but also overlap some.

You have the makings of a very safe group but not that great on DPS.

If you wanted to max DPS I would go either SK/Shaman/Bard/3 melees
Or Sk/Druid(heals/debuffs/dps boost for casters)/Enchanter/3 casters(1 mage/2 wizards)

Cleric/Enchanter/Bard is basically very very safe, nothing wrong with that, just do not expect massive DPS.

 

[Maskoi]

You can't really compare a chanter and bard to shammy.
Bards and chanters are mezzers, shamans are not.
If you are comparing slows then its chanter vs shammy. Bards can't slow. Requiem of time doesn't count. My main for for 13 years has been a bard.

For Slows
If you are heavy on melee toons go shammy.
If you are heavy on casters go chanter.

For mezzes
If you are heavy on melee toons go bard.
If you are heavy on casters go chanter.

SK, Cleric, Wizard, Bard, Shaman and Rogue if you like this group replace the shaman with a Beastlord.

 

[PussyFoot]

IMO, if you're using KA and a box group, there is no reason to have anyone over a chanter. Shaman slow is 75%, chanter is 73%. Enchanter cripple is TONS better. As far as debuffs go, chanter wins.

As far as mez goes, chanter wins.

You have a cleric. With group runes and single target runes, you shouldn't have trouble with anything in the game. Shaman would be overkill in the healing department. The buffs are nice sure, but while shaman gives hp/dodge buffs.. chanter gives clarity/better haste.

The other thing is, a chanter has MUCH better personal dps.

Sk, Cleric, Bard, Enchanter, Wizard, Mage will be very solid. Though the bard and chanter don't stack well. Bard would be able to pull singles, chanter wouldn't need them. etc Bard DOES boost sk lifetaps and such tremendously at 105 though.

 

[runcade]

I am not sure if you are set on the bard or not but I am running SK/CL/Enc/Mag/Wiz/Bst at the moment (worked up from 25 to 70 in the last few days) and I am liking it a lot. Not much down time at all even with chain casting nukes on the mage wiz and enc. I haven't done any afk stuff on them yet but the mana regen I get makes it very sustainable for long periods.

 

[MNkenr]

Thank you all for your opinions, the information was helpful.

 

[Karmanation]

I run a 6 box comp. Warrior, cleric, enchanter, wizard, mage - last spot was a bard but I dropped it for a shaman for the buffs and back up heals

 

[redraj]

Throwing in my 2cents at level 100.

Having someone else being able to throw a quick heal really helps a lot in the course of an evening. Bots get stuck doing who knows what, facing wrong direction, dpsing when should be healing, etc, etc. Having 1 character being able to throw a spot heal out makes a noticeable difference. (no matter if necro/bst/rng/sham/dru/pal/etc)

Health regen [not hots] doesn't do anything with a full group by level 100. Even when you regen 10khp/min. In any given 24 hour session, I doubt it saves me even one heal cast. You are really only going to be able to make use of that in a solo/duo situation.

Dots are pointless in group/bot content, even on the necro really need to fine tune your script to make it worthwhile with how short fights get. Same for instant cast dots. When you start killing named in under 50seconds & regular mobs in 10-30seconds, it is just too hard to justify casting them.

Debuffs are good, especially if you are running through a mission. If you are at a camp afk overnight, you will likely try to run as few as possible to squeeze out as much dps per fight. I have a camp that I don't even slow anymore at, just malo from the mage & pewpew from everyone else.


With that in mind, the shaman/enc comparison comes down to melee adps & spot heals || vs mez, caster adps & decent dps (every few fights my enchanter will do more damage then my mage).
What is more valuable to you?