Battlegrounds-Where is the justice? (1 Viewer)

[DrZap]

Last week I discovered the Battlegrounds. I took my lvl 26 Troll hunter about 5 times and loved it.

On Saturday, he was in 'the zone'. He had 54 honor kills, 18 killing blows, 9 corpse runs and was the third highest rated player on a side that won 3-0. 'For the Horde'!!

Later that day, my son wanted to take his lvl 42 Human Warlock back to BG and talked me into going with him. I took my lvl 42 NE Hunter, but had to use the laptop. The computer lag was so bad that I was a total non factor in a wipeout (3-1 them). I had 26 honor kills, mostly because the the other members of the team, 4 killing blows, 11 corpse runs. and was the second lowest rated player on a badly outplayed side.

Now, next morning, I check the Honor points. Troll-198, NE-280.

According to the Blizzard explanation, both will be given rank on Tuesday-the same rank. That just sucks!!

WHERE IS THE JUSTICE?????

Why should level 40's get more (much more) honor than lowly level 20's? Sure, if BG was a necessary part of everyone's diet, then by level 40 a player would be a seasoned veteran and due some respect. However, the more experienced players doing a better job should be given concomitant rewards to higher ranked dodo's.

That reminds me of the Army. Capability didn't matter, only rank. In Nam, we much preferred to go on patrol led by a Corporal (E-4) with 9 months in-country than with a PSG (E-7) just off the boat, and we NEVER wanted to be led by a Lieutenant no matter how long he had been around.

Seems Blizzard has bought into the myth of Officer superiority regardless of competence. Sure, I have seen level 60's in the AH with the rank of Private, or Scout, but I have never seen a player in the 20's with even the next higher grade, now I know why.

The whole thing sucks! Let the 20's at least be able to earn the rank of Sargeant. and don't give away rank to the higher levels just for showing up.

 

[jabird]

Alright. from my understanding, the honor system works JUST like the XP System...

As you level up, you need more XP to level up again, but you get a slight increase in XP gained per monster as you level.

Same for the honor system..

The higher rank you are, the more you have to kill to keep the rank/advance. Yet the higher level you are, the more HP you get. But it still takes 2 months to get to your PvP rank... would it make since to you, if a level 40 was a veteran, and had a mount he couldn't use till level 60?

Thats just how blizzard set it up. if you don't like it. don't play it... but BG's are a blast IMO... regardless of complexity...

 

[chicken dance]

honor points ala contribution points are estimated... it doesnt factor in till te server maintenance...

so what u see is
you vs level of player killed>rank of player killed>damage done>teammates around to receive points.. but is less than <loss to opposing team.. the eqaution is ard to explain here..

but if you win in WSG.. the honor is say 500+kill honor.. if you lose say its 200+honor... plus what ever u get in honor...

so the stats are a rough estimate.. but you wont see a difference../the stats will show normally 5% higher honor points than whats given... and will try and take into account all the factors above...

again its hard to explain but doing just hks vs winning is pointless unless ur in for a few minutes(or hours if ur in AV) where the win or loss doesnt count to your overall honor...

 

[daslugg]

The rank of the characters you're killing and how much damage you actually do to them weigh heavily in the figuring of HP's. The BG's that your troll was in most likely had toons with little or no rank, but the BG's the NE was in, everyone was most likely rank 1 or higher. This is the significant difference why your NE had more HP's.

Just to add: Blizzard made the qualifications to receive "rank 1" pretty simple. You only need 25 HK's in the given week to receive it. HP's aren't even factored in to receive this rank. Also, they recently changed it to where once rank 1 is attained, you can never lose it. As far as the other ranks go, I think even Blizz is confused

 

[Random]

also go into the WoW honour page and they say that the lower lvl you are the more honour you need to avoid lvl 25 high field marshals... depending on the lvl they "confiscate" some of your honour sux I know ...

 

[DrZap]

I read the comments. I thank you all for some clarification. I am still miffed. My son is so angry that he probably won't go back.

Daslugg's post raises another bug in the system. If you cannot lose rank 1, My son's toon will be tainted by the rank showing on his name for the rest of his game career. That will also piss him off. Further, slugs without any honor, skill, interest in BG or PvP will just show up until they accumulate the minimum 25 hk's just for bragging rights.

Tell me this, folks: Does Blizzard's selection process regarding which battle a toon is put into have rank of the other players as a factor? It is possible that they assign more neophytes to some battles and load others with veterans?

As I checked the stats after one battle, I noticed one player with 0 killing blows, 2 corpse runs, 30 or so HK's (again because of his team, not him). Is it possible that that player got into the game for the rank and did nothing but watch, getting surprised a couple of times by patrolling rogues or hunters?

Now to be a little charitable, I had the lag problem with the laptop and understand others with the same problem. I had one killing blow that was really cheap, the player was caught in a corner, the animation had him running nowhere and I just pummelled him with arrows until he died. That guy had computer lag worse than mine and I really feel sorry for him. the lag totally destroys the pleasure of the hunt.

BUT... To quote my son, "That means some high and mighty lvl 60 is stealing my honor. I am working for him, what's the point?" I agree. General Westmoreland (Rest his soul) benefitted from the Cong I waxed. I never met him. He didn't even know who I was. Where was he when the blood was flowing? Where is the honor?

 

[DrZap]

I read the posts again and have more whining to do.

What the fuck is wrong with having Field Marshalls with rank 25? When I found how much fun it is, I started a new character who will be raised and trained for BG and do nothing but BG his entire career. When he gets to lvl 21 and is allowed in, he will be specced for BG, his driver (me) will know the entire Warsong Gulch instance intimately, and will have worked out some strategies that will make the character a significant factor in every battle he enters.

It WAS my intention to get him into BG and then let him level exclusively on the XP given to the winning side. I think it would be AWESOME to see a level 25 Knight Commander. Folks, THAT is bragging rights, not Private label on some wimp who was a deer in the headlights when he got into BG and never went back. It would be a true mark of honor if a level 40 were riding an epic mount that he EARNED. It would make me bow with respect if I saw it and it would make me more proud than I can explain if I achieved it.

Merit folks, merit is what matters, not level!!!!

Now, however, perhaps I will have some levelling service build that BG specific toon to level 60 before I go in and kick Alliance Butt. ...or perhaps I will risk the bots...

 

[Boswell]

anyone considered that the real reason for battlegrounds was to keept he bored lvl 60 toons happy ?

if you are below that play the rest of WoW ?

 

[DrZap]

More whining, this time with a slight change of subject. Before I start, however, I need to comments on Jabirds "Love it or leave it" comment. Man, that is totally inappropriate. I will not stop the BG just because it is being run by RAMF's. I didn't stop fighting in Nam because the Officer pukes were bending their elbows at base camp while we sweat and bled. I did, however, whine, and will exercise my rights to whine whenever the system is stacked against the little guy.

Now, with that off my chest, let me propose a possible third battleground:

Let this one be for teams only. Let a group of folks who each have a role which they have honed, go in as a team, with communication, scout specialist, defenders with experience, attack specialists and TEAMWORK. The teams could be named, the team scores posted weekly. This way, a very successful team could have the whole contingent of Knight Commanders and beating them would bring great honor to the victorious teams.

Alternatively, a guild built for BG going into the game as a team could be a better experience, even if the lvl 20 teams could only earned the Private/Scout rank because of Blizzard's Oligarchical attitudes. That would be the team experience that is so rich. It would be like my platoon in Nam. I could dig that!!

 

[Boswell]

Now, with that off my chest, let me propose a possible third battleground:

Let this one be for teams only. Let a group of folks who each have a role which they have honed, go in as a team, with communication, scout specialist, defenders with experience, attack specialists and TEAMWORK. The teams could be named, the team scores posted weekly. This way, a very successful team could have the whole contingent of Knight Commanders and beating them would bring great honor to the victorious teams.

Alternatively, a guild built for BG going into the game as a team could be a better experience, even if the lvl 20 teams could only earned the Private/Scout rank because of Blizzard's Oligarchical attitudes. That would be the team experience that is so rich. It would be like my platoon in Nam. I could dig that!!

ah TFC !

 

[DrZap]

Question Bos: What the fuck, over?

 

[Boswell]

Question Bos: What the fuck, over?

lol - sorry ... thats a FPS game of a few years back ... Teamfortress Classic (TFC), a Halflife engine mod. Classic capture the flag / region control with teamwork and individual roles set by class types ... scout, soldier, heavyweapons, engineer, demolitians, spy, sniper, medic

 

[daslugg]

Zap, hat's off to you for your time in the Nam. I'm a 15 year active duty vet with the last 2 gulf excursions under my belt and I can't even fathom the tribulations you went through over there. No, I'm definitely not an elbow bender. Enlisted all the way.

As angry as I get at Blizz for some of the things they do, I do believe they had the right intentions with the BG's and the shared honor points with the Field Marshall. I believe they intended for the Field Marshall to be the one calling all of the shots in the BG's. He's suppossed to be the one in the near rear saying who's to attack where and when, who's suppossed to collect rams/wolves, when to turn in the leather and spheres and blah, blah, blah........Obviously with this responsibility, he's not going to have as much metal on target, so to compensate, IMHO, Blizz made it so HP's get shared to him. This makes sense and I believe it is what Blizz intended. Now does this happen? I can't answer for other servers, but on Bonechewer it was as advertised. The one time that I was in AV and the Field Marshall was there also, he was calling the shots. It was the most fun I've had in the game. He was giving out commands and 95% of the players were following them. The other times that I've been In AV were hit and miss. Sometimes there tactics and other times just a free for all. Hell, one time there was actually 2 different raid parties with each arguing for control. That was an embarrassment. Anyway, that's my take on the Field Marshall. Also, you will never have to worry about the Field Marshall taking HP's from you in WG because you will probably never see him in there. I don't want to take anything away from WG, but it pales in comparison to AV and the Field Marshall will probably never set foot in WG.

 

[DrZap]

Thanks for the kudo's Daslugg, the real honor in Nam was surviving, that and going down with your mates at your side, fighting with them and for them. The survivors come in two flavors, those who feel touched by God and those who feel abandoned. I am of the first type.

Back to BG. OK, AV is different that WG. Why, then, do we WG players have to bleed honor points to the AV specific players? BTW, whenever I go to WG and look around while I wait for my number to be called, I see as many lvl 55+ as all other levels combined.

I would love it if there were a Field Marshall directing the play. In that situation I would gladly give up points to him. I understand the enormous benefit from having a leader who leads well. The thing which really gets under my skin is the disparity of it all. My 40's NE time in the Gulch was a simple waste of time. the 20's Troll kicked some serious butt.

Now, after the Tuesday update, I find that the NE is 1/4 of the way to the next rank after one sorry session in BG. The Troll, on the other hand, is barely on the charts after 5 rather well played sessions.

I hear echos of the past, "That's just the way it is Soldier, deal with it" I will deal with it, but I won't like it, worlds without end.

I will end my contribution to this thread with the same words that started it: WHERE IS THE JUSTICE?