• You've discovered RedGuides 📕 an EverQuest multi-boxing community 🛡️🧙🗡️. We want you to play several EQ characters at once, come join us and say hello! 👋
  • IS THIS SITE UGLY? Change the look. To dismiss this notice, click the X --->

Discussion - Another crew question, sigh (1 Viewer)

S

sheijo

Level 2
Joined
Apr 23, 2019
RedCents
348¢
Ok guys I have a pretty commited 5 box of Shd/shm/brd/rog/rng. I have a bst that I’ve never been commited to and have tried to replace multiple times. What would be a good sub for him?

I’m open to double classes or a totally new class. I would like to replace his dps/adps with an equivalent or better straight up dpser.

If bst is the best for my crew im fine with that, but also open to opinions and options for replacement. I have an nec, zerk, or wiz that I can pretty easily swap in. Anything else would be something I need to level and I’m fine with that.

So let me have it.
 
I'd drop 1 rog and keep the beastlord and do add the zerk. Would be the same group I run and have no issues sk, shm, bard, rog, bst, zerk

But if you're dead set on using 2 rogues, definitely keep the beast lord.

EDIT: Totally read the rng as a rog so I thought 2 rogues lol. Can ignore me
 
Your group is good enough as it is that you don’t have to min/max with a class you don’t love or feel a connection with.

You could plug in anything and you’d do fine but I’d prolly plug in a zerker for more adps as you probably don’t need more help killing humanoid mobs with the rogue and ranger slaughtering..
 
TVCChiver said:
I'd drop 1 rog and keep the beastlord and do add the zerk. Would be the same group I run and have no issues sk, shm, bard, rog, bst, zerk

But if you're dead set on using 2 rogues, definitely keep the beast lord.

EDIT: Totally read the rng as a rog so I thought 2 rogues lol. Can ignore me
Click to expand...
Haha yea I figured as soon as I saw that.
 
Koko said:
Your group is good enough as it is that you don’t have to min/max with a class you don’t love or feel a connection with.

You could plug in anything and you’d do fine but I’d prolly plug in a zerker for more adps as you probably don’t need more help killing humanoid mobs with the rogue and ranger slaughtering..
Click to expand...
Yea I love my ranger. Rogue is just so strong I really don’t want to replace him and he makes getting ground drops so easy.

I don’t love my sk and will likely swap for my pal as I feel like it. I love my cleric more than my shaman but the dps increase is really big so it’s hard to justify. I love my enchanter more than my bard but bard is so useful it’s hard to justify the enchanter.

The bst I’m just meh about all around. I don’t feel like the bst has something I can’t live without so I keep trying to replace him but really haven’t found something worth it yet and leveling every class to test them out isn’t realistic

Edit: I love my nec more then my zerk but I’ve always loved the class fantasy of running around with a beefy 2h and smashing face.
 
Kilroy03 said:
the BST brings alot of untangibles... I was like you about the class but I finally accepted that my Melee group was better with the BST than with another dps.
Click to expand...
Yea I’m willing to accept the bst this is my final foray into finding a replacement if it’s even worth doing. Its weird I have even played a bst without automation but its never a class that has clicked for me.
 
sheijo said:
The bst I’m just meh about all around
Click to expand...
I run 125sk/rog/zerk/shm atm. I have a 115 beast rotting away that I was never super impressed with so I understand completely. Of course she always ate last at the loot table so i didn’t really give her a fair chance.

Exp bonus in march I’ll probably uncover my dusty 115 bard then maybe maybe pull the trigger on the beast account too but it also has a 115 ranger so can’t go wrong in either direction.
 
Koko said:
I run 125sk/rog/zerk/shm atm. I have a 115 beast rotting away that I was never super impressed with so I understand completely. Of course she always ate last at the loot table so i didn’t really give her a fair chance.

Exp bonus in march I’ll probably uncover my dusty 115 bard then maybe maybe pull the trigger on the beast account too but it also has a 115 ranger so can’t go wrong in either direction.
Click to expand...
I have to say with the plugin rng is pretty awesome, my rog and rng are very close damage wise. In humanoid mobs they are both about 1.2m dps and last exp on burns the rog was 2.5m dps and rng was 2.4m dps.

The burn dps was with brd and bst support, I haven’t tried them without bst support to test their numbers. I might run a named tonight just to see how they do sans bst and another tomorrow to see with bst.

My bst was pulling about 1.4m dps.
 
sheijo said:
I have to say with the plugin rng is pretty awesome, my rog and rng are very close damage wise. In humanoid mobs they are both about 1.2m dps and last exp on burns the rog was 2.5m dps and rng was 2.4m dps.

The burn dps was with brd and bst support, I haven’t tried them without bst support to test their numbers. I might run a named tonight just to see how they do sans bst and another tomorrow to see with bst.

My bst was pulling about 1.4m dps.
Click to expand...
Is ur sk around 2m?
 
Koko said:
Is ur sk around 2m?
Click to expand...
I ran a pal with my melee group until recently.

I used to run sk/clr/enc/mag/nec/bst, I had two rezs on the team so I ran the sk. I always loved Pal so I made one with my melee group and it was nice having a battle rez on the pal since the shm didn’t have one. I’m now into the melee group so I’m pulling the sk out of retirement to try him out. I don’t have a Rez stick so I’m out a battle rez so we will see how it works out.

The sk is 123 right now but I’ll test his numbers when he is 125

Edit: sk will be NoS raid geared plus t3 LS group weapons so we will see
 
sheijo said:
Ok guys I have a pretty commited 5 box of Shd/shm/brd/rog/rng. I have a bst that I’ve never been commited to and have tried to replace multiple times. What would be a good sub for him?

I’m open to double classes or a totally new class. I would like to replace his dps/adps with an equivalent or better straight up dpser.

If bst is the best for my crew im fine with that, but also open to opinions and options for replacement. I have an nec, zerk, or wiz that I can pretty easily swap in. Anything else would be something I need to level and I’m fine with that.

So let me have it.
Click to expand...
Bottom-line…play what you like. Doesn’t matter how much more or less dps/adps you gain lose if you don’t like your class.

Same principle as a car…buy something you love and will be happy with…

Driving Top Gear GIF by MotorTrend
 
honestly, like was said just prior to me, play whatever setup you feel most drawn to. The DPS targets that the past several years of expansions were designed around are incredibly easy to hit these days so any combo you choose to play will be doable. Like you, I'm not overly enthused about BST, mainly because of mana, so I dropped my BST and my DRU and just moved on. I'd suggest slapping a mage in your base group though if you really want another. Mage utility with group call of the hero, combined with bard invis (or slap your chanter back in and double invis that way), is super handy in some zones where getting around is a PITA. Mage is awesome DPS and can offtank easy as well.
 
sheijo said:
Yea I love my ranger. Rogue is just so strong I really don’t want to replace him and he makes getting ground drops so easy.

I don’t love my sk and will likely swap for my pal as I feel like it. I love my cleric more than my shaman but the dps increase is really big so it’s hard to justify. I love my enchanter more than my bard but bard is so useful it’s hard to justify the enchanter.

The bst I’m just meh about all around. I don’t feel like the bst has something I can’t live without so I keep trying to replace him but really haven’t found something worth it yet and leveling every class to test them out isn’t realistic

Edit: I love my nec more then my zerk but I’ve always loved the class fantasy of running around with a beefy 2h and smashing face.
Click to expand...

So go with what you like but if you are paying attention to adps, the beast adds even more to your melee group burns shared ferocity etc.. I assume you have the lower level (ideally rank 3) key spells?
 
sheijo said:
Yea I love my ranger. Rogue is just so strong I really don’t want to replace him and he makes getting ground drops so easy.

I don’t love my sk and will likely swap for my pal as I feel like it. I love my cleric more than my shaman but the dps increase is really big so it’s hard to justify. I love my enchanter more than my bard but bard is so useful it’s hard to justify the enchanter.

The bst I’m just meh about all around. I don’t feel like the bst has something I can’t live without so I keep trying to replace him but really haven’t found something worth it yet and leveling every class to test them out isn’t realistic

Edit: I love my nec more then my zerk but I’ve always loved the class fantasy of running around with a beefy 2h and smashing face.
Click to expand...
I had the same problems and ended up with more characters than I can have in a single group. I have since created 3 x FTP accounts that will help with haste / CC / heals etc. (shaman, bard, cleric)

Once they are upto-speed, I should be able to switch / swap whichever 'main' characters I want and supplement the missing ones with the FTP characters.

(Does make progression / AAs a grind though)/
 
I'd have to say Mage, I want to say necro but after having played around with both in group I now prefer mage. Just my opinion, no data.
Going to add wiz to my group soon so I may have different opinion soon. Lol. With ftp, I'm eventually going to have a run with them all.
 
fuggun said:
I'd have to say Mage, I want to say necro but after having played around with both in group I now prefer mage. Just my opinion, no data.
Going to add wiz to my group soon so I may have different opinion soon. Lol. With ftp, I'm eventually going to have a run with them all.
Click to expand...
I am leveling my wizard right now, I always get her levels and as maxed and bench her. However last night on my parses I had a 30m mana burn crit and it made my heart sing a little bit. I miss the old pop wizard days where they just dropped nukes.
 
sheijo said:
Ok lots of diverse answers, I’m loving it.

What would you think about a Druid joining the crew as a debuffer/dps option?
Click to expand...
If you're adding a druid, with their mana issues, I'd recommend keeping the bst/bard combo, stacking bard regens or maybe replacing the bst with an enchanter and keeping the bard. Bard stacking regens can make a druid work despite mana issues. The other option is to slow down DPS instead of trying to max it out, then you won't get drained so quickly via dots being used on super short fights...won't run out of spawns either :P Druid, imo, is very much a function of how much downtime you can tolerate since you will need to OOC regen a LOT.
 
well i did a little testing to look at the bst variable for dps here are the results:
fight with bst:
1708961372805.png
fight without bst:
1708961334976.png

To be fair to the wizard dps they are 124 and lacking AAs where the bst is 125 with max AAs. Assuming similar dps between the two the bst ADPS adds about 2m dps to the ranger and rogue. If im going to lose that much DPS i would need to get some good utility. I guess its possible a zerk could pull 3.5M dps but im not sure how zerks are right now; i guess i would level mine and see how it goes.

Utility wise I think my options are Enchanter, Necro, Mage, Druid.

Enchanter: extra CC (mana and haste really not needed), charm pet (lower dps)
Necro: battle rez (lower dps)
Mage: CotH, DS (probably bst dps level)
Druid: ports, buffs (in addition to shaman buffs, debuffs, off heals (mana hungry)

any considerations im missing?
 
sheijo said:
well i did a little testing to look at the bst variable for dps here are the results:
fight with bst:
View attachment 57921
fight without bst:
View attachment 57920

To be fair to the wizard dps they are 124 and lacking AAs where the bst is 125 with max AAs. Assuming similar dps between the two the bst ADPS adds about 2m dps to the ranger and rogue. If im going to lose that much DPS i would need to get some good utility. I guess its possible a zerk could pull 3.5M dps but im not sure how zerks are right now; i guess i would level mine and see how it goes.

Utility wise I think my options are Enchanter, Necro, Mage, Druid.

Enchanter: extra CC (mana and haste really not needed), charm pet (lower dps)
Necro: battle rez (lower dps)
Mage: CotH, DS (probably bst dps level)
Druid: ports, buffs (in addition to shaman buffs, debuffs, off heals (mana hungry)

any considerations im missing?
Click to expand...
Parsing isnt always cut and dried.

To short of fight to show anything (even the bst didnt have time to kick it up)

In that short of a fight, kick glyph, arcane fury, spire, and MB, will do 60m dmg in 1.5 seconds once your maxed from the wizard, couple TC's of boosted ethereal's, that mob could almost be solo'd by a modern wizard.

Wizards are fine in group, once AA'd, but while you have "some" synergy with the rangers, bard and the wiz, its deff not the same as you will have with bst, shm, rng, sk and bard. That can be huge, depending on the synergy (its EQ's way of making groups diverse).

Play what you want, I spent sat with sk, war, cleric x2, druid and wiz doing LS progression.. not the meta group, but got it done easy.. and had a few laughs while doing it..
 
durango773 said:
Parsing isnt always cut and dried.

To short of fight to show anything (even the bst didnt have time to kick it up)

In that short of a fight, kick glyph, arcane fury, spire, and MB, will do 60m dmg in 1.5 seconds once your maxed from the wizard, couple TC's of boosted ethereal's, that mob could almost be solo'd by a modern wizard.

Wizards are fine in group, once AA'd, but while you have "some" synergy with the rangers, bard and the wiz, its deff not the same as you will have with bst, shm, rng, sk and bard. That can be huge, depending on the synergy (its EQ's way of making groups diverse).

Play what you want, I spent sat with sk, war, cleric x2, druid and wiz doing LS progression.. not the meta group, but got it done easy.. and had a few laughs while doing it..
Click to expand...
yea, i know fights can vary based on many things. I know this is a humanoid mob so ranger and rogue go crazy, but its easy to run quickly and allows for a basic damage comparison. I ran this fight several times with bst and without bst and results were similar.

yea for awhile I was running a different crew but ive kinda gotten addicted to the fast killing strat, and thats kind of my pickle. I love killing this fast, but i know it isn't the end all be all and I might need something to round out my crew outside of straight dps. I just want to make sure its a good trade off. The ranger in my crew is that class i really love and will keep around regardless of their damage output, i have kinda become attached to the other classes except the bst. im not sure why i don't have any bst love lol.

As for the Wiz im just running rg mercs and she isn't fully up to par so im not too worried about her damage profile, but she doesn't give much utility out of ports. the port to bind or to anchor is nice, but i want to make sure im not gimping myself in other ways with just that.

this last spot has been hard for me to fill with something else, assuming something else will help me feel like i have my favorite group; maybe i just need to accept the bst and live with it. I am that guy that will spend 2 hours in the book store picking out one book, i know i might be over thinking it but its kinda who i am lol
 
sheijo said:
well i did a little testing to look at the bst variable for dps here are the results:
fight with bst:
View attachment 57921
fight without bst:
View attachment 57920

To be fair to the wizard dps they are 124 and lacking AAs where the bst is 125 with max AAs. Assuming similar dps between the two the bst ADPS adds about 2m dps to the ranger and rogue. If im going to lose that much DPS i would need to get some good utility. I guess its possible a zerk could pull 3.5M dps but im not sure how zerks are right now; i guess i would level mine and see how it goes.

Utility wise I think my options are Enchanter, Necro, Mage, Druid.

Enchanter: extra CC (mana and haste really not needed), charm pet (lower dps)
Necro: battle rez (lower dps)
Mage: CotH, DS (probably bst dps level)
Druid: ports, buffs (in addition to shaman buffs, debuffs, off heals (mana hungry)

any considerations im missing?
Click to expand...

So one fight isn’t enough. I run about 10 different groups mostly in raid gear (thanks server choices). If it’s purely about min maxing, with your group you will never do better dropping the bst. Pick what you want but I promise you the BST is adding at least 3 million in dps across 3 melee. It’s higher the better weapons get.

I use to only play caster but the reality is BST, 2 rogue - almost nothing beats that group paired with sk, brd, shm. I’ve tried every combo imaginable.

pick what you want but know the beast adds big dps to the group.
 
Naeeldar said:
So one fight isn’t enough. I run about 10 different groups mostly in raid gear (thanks server choices). If it’s purely about min maxing, with your group you will never do better dropping the bst. Pick what you want but I promise you the BST is adding at least 3 million in dps across 3 melee. It’s higher the better weapons get.

I use to only play caster but the reality is BST, 2 rogue - almost nothing beats that group paired with sk, brd, shm. I’ve tried every combo imaginable.

pick what you want but know the beast adds big dps to the group.
Click to expand...
Yea this is one sample to represent multiple runs. This is a simple tank and spank which I feel like give a good representation of ideal damage; think target dummy.

There were some variations in damage amongst the runs but single digit percentage variation after throwing out the outliers.

I do think that Bst is going to be the way in terms of max dps. Tho I might bite the bullet and finish leveling up my zerk just for comparison sake.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Discussion - Another crew question, sigh
Next unread thread 🦁

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top