Question - 120 Necro raiding with some raid gear. Mana management is an issue.

[Granditos]

I find myself OOM with no recovery often after about 10 min in a raid. I’m using blood magic, death bloom, mod rods, mana potions, etc.

Should this happen as I’m casting hard constantly or should I settle more into a moderate spell casting routine to try and keep a certain level of mana at all times (take small breaks, etc.).

Any raiding on live necros have any advice?

 

[Eltai86]

I suppose one question is at what point are you starting to use your mana recovery tools? A lot of people save things until "lower" when maximizing is going to have things getting hit way earlier in the cycle.

 

[Many_Whelps]

I'm good friends with the top necro in my guild and I've never heard him complain about mana issues. I don't know exactly what you're doing/casting so I can't really give you any specific advice, but the things are hear him always talk about is that you generally want to be using your highest DPS dot on as many targets as possible before casting multiple dots on a single mob or using lower DPS dots. Don't bother casting on mobs that are going to die fast anyways. Keep full dots on the boss and any other high HP targets, use only the very best spells on adds.

 

[Kookies]

Are you struggling with all fights, or only certain ones?

What is your gear level?

Is your guild using the empowered banner? It has a 1-10% mana pres iirc

Do you have the specialize alteration Aug? It provides significant mana preservation over the course of a fight.

Are your specializations set to alteration -> conjuration?

What is your normal raid group makeup? Bards and enchanters help tremendously with mana. Druid wolf helps some.

Are your raid's Beast lords doing a Paragon rotation? These give strong mana regen.

How are you tracking your dots? Are you casting them before they fade?

Are you using funeral pyre? It makes necros hemorrhage mana.

 

[Granditos]

I suppose one question is at what point are you starting to use your mana recovery tools? A lot of people save things until "lower" when maximizing is going to have things getting hit way earlier in the cycle.

I start pretty quick with my mana recover tools and keep them going almost immediately after refresh. Don’t think there is anything more I can be doing there.

 

[Granditos]

I'm good friends with the top necro in my guild and I've never heard him complain about mana issues. I don't know exactly what you're doing/casting so I can't really give you any specific advice, but the things are hear him always talk about is that you generally want to be using your highest DPS dot on as many targets as possible before casting multiple dots on a single mob or using lower DPS dots. Don't bother casting on mobs that are going to die fast anyways. Keep full dots on the boss and any other high HP targets, use only the very best spells on adds.

Yeah I think I do a pretty decent job of not casting on quick dying mobs but I think I will back off even more. Thanks!

 

[Granditos]

Are you struggling with all fights, or only certain ones?

What is your gear level?

Is your guild using the empowered banner? It has a 1-10% mana pres iirc

Do you have the specialize alteration Aug? It provides significant mana preservation over the course of a fight.

Are your specializations set to alteration -> conjuration?

What is your normal raid group makeup? Bards and enchanters help tremendously with mana. Druid wolf helps some.

Are your raid's Beast lords doing a Paragon rotation? These give strong mana regen.

How are you tracking your dots? Are you casting them before they fade?

Are you using funeral pyre? It makes necros hemorrhage mana.

Everything is tier 3 NoS or ToL/NoS raid gear. Full Nos ToL augs.

Yes on banner.

specialize alteration Aug- I don’t even know what this is! What should I have at level 120? Just get me started and I will find the details.

Are your specializations set to alteration -> conjuration? Same thing on this? How do I do this?

We get paragons and I usually have a bard in my group. So I think we are good there.

I only use funeral pyre when I have blood magic up. But just learned that is a waste too if I have a bard in my group so I’m going to take that out of the rotation.

I am tracking my dots and mostly don’t cast over them. There are definitely times when I lose track and probably cast too early but I think I do pretty good here.

To summarize from previous posts, I think I’m going to be more frugal with casting on non boss mobs, drop funeral pyre, and watch my overcast. I think that will help. I think it was good that it doesn’t seem like I’m doing something drasticly wrong.

 

[Eltai86]

There are two options for spec augs. One comes from ldon raids the other from cotf named. They functionally increase mana savings on every cast for the spell of that type. Cotf ones are slightly better.

When you look at your skills for specialize alteration and conjuration you want those two to be highest of them in that order. If not can reset them in temple of Solro.
To raise the skill it’s the result of spell casting

 

[winnower]

All the good raid necros I've seen blow their mana faster than any other class. I assume you can learn to be more efficient, but max burn seems run them dry quick

 

[Kookies]

The alteration Aug: https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=113798

This will give additional mana preservation on EVERY alteration spell you cast. Pyre is your main mana sink.

Additionally, enroll in the "Visions of Suffering" personal tribute. It's not huge, but is an upgrade over your worn mana pres on dots.

Death bloom you should honestly just automatically hit whenever you're at 80% mana. It's a short reuse, keep yourself topped off, mash it down.

It seems like your bard is doing something poorly. You shouldn't be burning through mana like that. Make sure you have chorus on, and make sure they're playing Pulse. Their reflexive also gives a good mana boost and can be used every 9ish minutes. Their lively crescendo line is another huge mana battery. It should be on their weave. Bards have a legitimate case for not using their progressive song, but it can also help regen mana.

Enchanter: check if they're using their BP and spire whenever they're up. If they're casting regularly, they can proc gift of mana for their group (mana avoidance) and shave off thousands.

With blood magic, don't be afraid to use it as a "preventative" oom measure. When it's an add heavy fight and I'm going to cast pyre on a dozen mobs, I can pop blood magic and laugh my way to the top of the parse at full mana. It's of course recommended to get down to at least 60-70 before you click it, but it's great preventative mana.

With over dotting, I made a modification to my HUD to show my dot durations. I'm away from my computer for the foreseeable future and can't share it, but something similar could help you as well... Instantly knowing what dots are on your target is a huge quality of life thing.

I'll think of some more stuff and report back.

 

[durango773]

Necros are known for doing great DPS, and always having mana (like shaman).. kinda odd that your running oom.

 

[zathus]

Everything is tier 3 NoS or ToL/NoS raid gear. Full Nos ToL augs.

Yes on banner.

specialize alteration Aug- I don’t even know what this is! What should I have at level 120? Just get me started and I will find the details.

Are your specializations set to alteration -> conjuration? Same thing on this? How do I do this?

We get paragons and I usually have a bard in my group. So I think we are good there.

I only use funeral pyre when I have blood magic up. But just learned that is a waste too if I have a bard in my group so I’m going to take that out of the rotation.

I am tracking my dots and mostly don’t cast over them. There are definitely times when I lose track and probably cast too early but I think I do pretty good here.

To summarize from previous posts, I think I’m going to be more frugal with casting on non boss mobs, drop funeral pyre, and watch my overcast. I think that will help. I think it was good that it doesn’t seem like I’m doing something drasticly wrong.

Funeral Pyre is pointless, good call to take it out of your rotation. necros LOSE dps using it. worst AA ever.

 

[WiseTrapper]

Are you struggling with all fights, or only certain ones?

What is your gear level?

Is your guild using the empowered banner? It has a 1-10% mana pres iirc

Do you have the specialize alteration Aug? It provides significant mana preservation over the course of a fight.

Are your specializations set to alteration -> conjuration?

What is your normal raid group makeup? Bards and enchanters help tremendously with mana. Druid wolf helps some.

Are your raid's Beast lords doing a Paragon rotation? These give strong mana regen.

How are you tracking your dots? Are you casting them before they fade?

Are you using funeral pyre? It makes necros hemorrhage mana.

Key points here - use the spell specialization focus augments.
The alteration spec aug is from ETWK mission rare.
The conjuration spec aug is from Bixie mission rare.
Prayer Shawl of the Duke aug will return a lot of mana.
You will give up some direct h/m/e with these augs, but don't be fooled, the mana savings are worth it.
In our guild, necromancers like for bards to run group mana song, but I think that is wrong.

 

[Granditos]

Key points here - use the spell specialization focus augments.
The alteration spec aug is from ETWK mission rare.
The conjuration spec aug is from Bixie mission rare.
Prayer Shawl of the Duke aug will return a lot of mana.
You will give up some direct h/m/e with these augs, but don't be fooled, the mana savings are worth it.
In our guild, necromancers like for bards to run group mana song, but I think that is wrong.

Nice. I farmed for both the alteration and conjuration one. First time hearing about the prayer shawl. I’ll start working on that too. I also needed to fix my specializations. Alt was first but conjuration wasn’t second. Just with those changes it has made a huge a difference! Thanks all.

 

[Granditos]

Funeral Pyre is pointless, good call to take it out of your rotation. necros LOSE dps using it. worst AA ever.

Sometimes during raids I don’t get a bard in my group… yeah I know! guessing it is still worth using FP during those times? Or are you saying never at all?

 

[knave23]

Yeah I know we're all used to necros being the mana battery, but I think that changed around the time they revamped dots, right? I remember reading that necros were starting to run out of mana after they did that so to me it sounds like you're doing all the right things.

 

[WiseTrapper]

Yeah I know we're all used to necros being the mana battery, but I think that changed around the time they revamped dots, right? I remember reading that necros were starting to run out of mana after they did that so to me it sounds like you're doing all the right things.

I don't think necromancers have been realistically expected to give their mana to clerics since Kunark and Classic, but I think you are correct about recent changes to the game upping the mana cost for necromancer spell lines.

 

[knave23]

I don't think necromancers have been realistically expected to give their mana to clerics since Kunark and Classic, but I think you are correct about recent changes to the game upping the mana cost for necromancer spell lines.

Yeah now that you mention it that was sort of the wrong term to use. I was trying to reinforce what durango said about necros never running out of mana like shamen, but I guess it sort of works as they're still energizer bunnies in our heads lol

 

[WiseTrapper]

Yeah now that you mention it that was sort of the wrong term to use. I was trying to reinforce what durango said about necros never running out of mana like shamen, but I guess it sort of works as they're still energizer bunnies in our heads lol

I believe necromancers do have a line of spells that grants mana to group every pulse, but I couldn't say if it would be better to use than to just make things dead quicker and then OOC meditate. I have recently added a FTP necromancer to my group consist, but I'm not familiar enough yet to say much on it.
Years ago from classic to COTF, i mained a necromancer and I still like to get it out now and then, but I have fallen way behind on the knowledge curve with it, as I have been maining a magician since.

 

[durango773]

with focus, last 54 seconds, on a 1 min cooldown. so if mobs are alive for more then 1 tick of it, already made you mana back, and gave mana to group (druids, rangers love this one cool trick).

For self necro can use:



Last over a min, returning mana and damaging.

 

[WiseTrapper]

View attachment 48967 with focus, last 54 seconds, on a 1 min cooldown. so if mobs are alive for more then 1 tick of it, already made you mana back, and gave mana to group (druids, rangers love this one cool trick).

For self necro can use:

View attachment 48968

Last over a min, returning mana and damaging.

to ask a possibly stupid question - does target require a mana pool? what if target is rogue or warrior class mob?

 

[durango773]

Mobs dont require mana to use those. First one doesnt stack for recourse, so if 2 necros in the group, only 1 needs to cast.

 

[zathus]

Sometimes during raids I don’t get a bard in my group… yeah I know! guessing it is still worth using FP during those times? Or are you saying never at all?

never at all. even with out a bard. the lose in DPS from your dots being lowered in duration is not worth the VERY small, almost difficult to prove anything happens at all boost to dot dmg

Edit: in fact, with out a bard even more so! with out QT its hard enough keeping up stacking dots. now lower there duration. 1 TIC of Pyre is worth more in damage