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The support class dilemma (1 Viewer)

Lesson25

New member
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
RedCents
Warning: serious (& frivioulous) (& long) analysis of the support class in MMORGPs follows.

I was talking to a friend of mine about the upcoming Warhammer Online game. He is one of those people that is very excited about it & just eating up all the hype. I on the other hand am interested to see how it turns, but I still have a bit of..."cautious optomism" about it. Anyways, this particular conversation turned to class role--the game's Design Manager released an interview talking about the subject, and he said that would be no dedicated "healing" classes. There will be support classes, but every class will have the opportunity to deal damage, and the implied scenario was that it will never be desirable to heal exclusively while you can do both healing and damage.

(The interview is at http://youtube.com/watch?v=gcwJGcqjU6s if you want to watch it for yourself.)

Now, I found this logic to be a bit delusional, based on my interpretations of conventional games. Consider this: in every game, players have a finite number of actions they can perform in a given period of time. Assume for a second an imaginary simple game where there are only direct healing & direct damaging spells, and you have your choice of performing either. There are two possible conditions: either the direct healing spells are more effective than the damaging spells, or vice versa. In the case of the latter, it will almost ALWAYS make the most sense to cast as many direct healing spells whenever there is opportunity to heal, as you will outlast any opponents casting damage spells. (There can be exceptions of course--trying to finish something at low health off--but in general the fact healing pays out more than damage makes it more valueable.) Conversely, if damaging spells are almost always more effective, it makes more sense to almost NEVER cast a healing spell, as you know for sure its a losing battle. (Because it's undesirable to make healing obsolete, most games choose the former.)

Now there are of course limitations you can add to this simple game to complicate the model--e.g., abilities that temporarily increase or decrease the effectiveness of either damage or healing, diminishing returns, cooldowns, support abilties that don't directly heal, abilities that don't damage, abilties that can both and damage; etc--but you still boil down to that basic choice of whether its more effective to heal or to damage. And if the case is that latter, it makes the sense to use those abilities extensively, if not exclusively.

I play a disc priest in WoW, which is perhaps the closest balance of damage and support that you can achieve in the game, and I PvP practically every day. I can do moderate DPS; I can do moderate HPS. Every night, I have to make hundreds of comparable decisions. WoW is of course a very complicated game compared to the above model, but the gist of my game play is similar: do I cast Flash Heal on my ally for 1.5k healing or do I cast Mind Blast on my enemy for 1.0k damage? Almost always, the answer is Flash Heal, because its more effective than damaging and I can cancel out my opponents' cycles. And if the dynamics of the WO:AoR support classes are anything like this, the results there will probably be the same. Don't get me wrong--there is of course room for some very clever innovation to circumvent this logical trap--however, I think I am rightfully skeptical. It seems to me like the act of including effective support abilties almost necessitates its extensive use in basic player-versus-player interaction, especially if you can devote some allies to specialize in it.

What say you, fellow gamers?
 
Even if every class is a hybrid capable of healing, the most capable healing class -- the one that can do it the best when it comes down to the numbers of it -- will be forced into a healing role in any major group operations.

It's more efficient to have everyone who can dps focus on setting their char up to dps, and everyone who can soak damage setting their char up to soak damage and hold aggro, and everyone who can heal the best, to be set up to heal the best...

Rather than having everyone specced/leveled/talented/skilled whatever, and geared, for both, while excelling to the full amount at neither.

Hybrids are useful, but if everyone can do everything in the same capacity of everyone else... then they might as well only have one class. Classes should be different. Some people think playing support sucks, some people live for it. There are usually fewer of the latter, but that's just the way the world works. Thankfully you usually need fewer healers and pure tanks compared to dps classes anyways.
 
In City of Heroes, I didn't see a great deal of healing. Support classes dealt damage and healed because the healing did very little. Of course, I only played to lvl 20 (and got to play as a sidekick), so I might not know anything. It's the only time I've ever seen healers not exclusively healing (besides maybe a DOT or two) in an MMO.

In games where healing is worth something, it will always trump dealing damage and will become an exclusive function of people. When a game has the ability to specialize and gain power in specific roles (like the talent trees in WoW), people will especially do this because they don't have the ability (ex. talent points) or time (ex. skill training) to max out everything.
 
With the apparent specialization of each of the classes in WO I cannot see them having a straight healer class. For anyone not wanting to watch the video they seem to be specializing your class for you. Examples given: The "Hammerer" uses hammers only and gets the normal hammer skills (knockdown, knockback, head smash). The "Bright Mage" uses fire spells (no lightning or ice).

With the constraints that these classes seem to be under I can't imagine anyone wanting to play a class that specializes in healing because thats all they would be able to do (even while going solo...).

The interview doesn't go into how characters will get healing at all so it will be very interesting to see how they implemented it. As has been already stated, the class with the best 'heal other' spells will get pigeon-holed for group ops. What would group dynamics be like if everyone was responsible for self healing?
 
They've flushed out a little of the details of class-play on their website: http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/gameInfo/armiesofWAR/

From what I see, it looks like every race has some type tanking-class, some type of raw-DPS-class, some type of support-class, and what I'll call a "color class" (hurray Squig Farmer!!). The support classes vary--Dwarven Rune Priests & Chaotic Zealots sound like buff-oriented classes while the Greenskin Shaman and Empire Warrior Priests sound like direct-heal oriented classes.

I guess my point is: am I wrong in thinking Paul Barnett is being extremely short-sighted when he says "there is no sitting in the back & going '& i heal, & i heal, & i heal'...if you're really one of those people who likes to sit in the back not doing anything but going '& i heal, & i heal', go away; we don't want you." From everything else I've read about this game & the above logic, it sounds like if you do specialize in healing and make it to max-level, you would be a god amongst men, and in both PvE & PvP you'll do everything possible to make it possible to sit in the back & utilize your specialization to its fullest.

EDIT: I guess I should read what I link a little closer before posting. :-P I missed the concept of allowing DPS-contributions to enchance support contributions. An interesting concept. I'm _still_ weary until I see it's implementation, however. ;-)
 
Yeah I was gonna say if you want to see how this works just pick up a trial of Vanguard. With classes like the blood mage you are basically required to DPS in order to heal. How it works is you have this "blood union" shit that works kinda like rogue combo points in WoW. You add blood union to mobs by using your damaging spells, a union of blood ability, or one of your "stances" that basically drains life from you every few seconds, adds a blood union point to the mob, and increases your damage output. You have life draining abilities that return life to you, life drains that return life to your defensive target, direct heals that steal some of your life and heal the other person, etc that are all more effective if you have more blood union points up. You also have damaging abilities and a heal over time that consume blood union points to use. Basically to be an effective healer you have to juggle your abilities between doing damage and healing to get the most out of your abilities. You also have to drain/damage the mob in order to keep yourself alive as you are losing health while healing. It's pretty fun.

Another VG healer is the disciple that is kinda like a cross between a monk and a healer. You have combos and abilities that heal yourself or your defensive target while fighting the mob. You are a more effective healer while doing melee damage than you would be just standing back and healing.

The VG cleric also has something similar. You have traditional casted heals like clerics in any other game. However your primary means of damage is melee dps which is cool because it doesn't drain your mana DPSing that should be spent on healing. In addition to that your melee attacks have added effects. One is a mana drain, another adds a flat damage number to all melee damage in your group, another adds 10% damage to your entire group, etc. So you are more effective while you are up close and beating on the mob than you are just standing back and healing.

Maybe he means something like that?
 
Lol, yeah, and the interesting mechanic of VG over WoW that makes something like that possible...

Every damn elite and boss doesn't have a cleave or near constant AoE, lol. Jeez that got old in WoW.
 
I'm sure there are times in VG where it isn't advisable to be in melee range. I just think it would be the exception rather than the rule to stand back and heal rather than helping out elsewhere.
 
The support class dilemma

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