Question - playing around with multiple groups - what do I need to complete thru velious ?

[braedo]

So I have been screwing around on Ragefire for the last couple months.. and I probably will continue until a new Quarm or new TLP comes out...

anyways, I currently have 2 groups that I am grinding out AAs on, and then will begin to gear them up with epics and armor... but my question is, what should I be able to defeat on my own - and what would I need more for ? right now, I dont want to go above 18 toons, but I am hoping to do as much with 12 as possible.

group 1 = sk/shm/brd/mnk/mage/clr
group 2 = war/clr/enc/rog/rng/wiz

they all have decent bazaar gear, but like I said - my plan is to hit Kael eventually and do their epics, at least the ones that are worth the time.


I was playing around with the idea of a 3rd group of all wiz or something like that for ease of control... but just not sure its worth it.

any input or PMs are greatly appreciated!

 

[nyghteyes]

This is a pretty loaded question, there are so many ways things can go bad on the bigger bosses. I would suggest you get HoT geared or Tae Ew Plate for the tanks.

I've went back and forth from 6 to 12, and then 18 for a while but just don't have the time to prep them. So back down to 10 or so right now and will only re-up for 6 til PoP.

HoT is a great place to test your skills on some meaner mobs, fine tune your ini's for 1 at a time baddies.

AC/Resists/Mana/Focus effects are the key ingredients.

I have not tried Vindicator again since I completed my War key AA's. I'm still doubtful. My crew is similar to yours.

MoTM is what is screwing us on taking down the bigger stuff. Without it I know I could do Vindicator size bosses. Yet some are still trivial for example, Harla Dar for improved damage 3 neck.

Once PoP comes out tho, its game on for old world challenges.

 

[LamahHerder]

Yea I had same struggles on RF then LJ
12 just was not enough to deal with the real boss fights
You need 3-4 clerics and 3 tanks IMO then DPS up the ying
Problem with Wizards was they need to be in melee distance for many big targets in that era and they are squishy from AE if you cant hide behind a wall, then hiding behind a wall you need to dance out to DPS

I was thinking to roll some monk's and backstabbers but gave up and went to live as I didnt want to pay for 24 accounts
Was also wondering if just brute force with mage pets even with the negatives would play out.... if you had 3ish tanks and a way to keep mana up indefinitely for heals. I avoided mages on RF/LJ so not really sure how bad the nerf is.

Now I have same concerns on live =)

 

[nyghteyes]

Pet rolling these bosses are not viable anymore. They now scale the DPS from pets depending how many are on the aggro list, I believe is checked number PC's are also on the list. I watch my pets hit for 1 to 12 damage on MoTM bosses often.

I am currently testing Rangers, will know by probably Sunday how they are Pre-Pop AA's/Bows. Working on a small handful of them with a bard and 250 range bows. So far looks very promising.

 

[braedo]

ooh, a 3rd ranger group might be interesting.

that would probably give the extra dps I am looking for too.

 

[etherealmist]

Rangers are retarded DPS at the moment. No need to test.

You'll need at least 4 clerics with decent (hot or so) gear to do vindi. He is actually harder than KT in my opinion in terms of fight mechanics (since he has adds which you have to deal with). Additional clerics just make things easier.

Statue is super easy with 4 clerics.

Of course all of that depends on if your clerics sit during CHs, and how good your DPS is. I typically 4 group KT/Vindi/Statue.

 

[nyghteyes]

Good to hear just I put 34% haste on all of them and decent baz gear. Glad it wasn't a waste of time.

I'm glad MotM will not be on PoP mobs. 4 Groups with gold access is just too much cash this late in the expansion. Economy seems to suck on 3-6 months in, I can only seem to sustain 18 toons for the first month or 2 of each expac. /jealous

 

[rhiza]

get ya war geared as much as possible and ALL AA's. having a good tank changes everything on the clerics. you should never need more than 3 clerics to even do luclin stuff (VT included). make sure ya get a necro in there for mindrack. makes mana a non issue on your clerics no matter how shit their gear is.

doing swiftwind on ya rangers is worth the time. +atk is very good boost as well as 40% haste.

and motm will be on PoP bosses, just not very significantly. a lot of stuff in luclin and most of velious is 2 groupable already.

 

[nyghteyes]

I see they finally made that statement in December...sounds like it wont be MotM IV
Thanks for that update.

Ethereal, you are 100% correct, the rangers are coming along nicely and are hitting like trucks. Everyone loves wizards and the DPS is staggering, but that mana pool just doesn't last when you don't have a full raid force.


I guess I really to attempt some of these bosses again.

 

[braedo]

ok - well not that any of you care, but for now this is my plan . I am going to try and stick with 2 groups since I found a guild that is super MQ friendly and very willing to help (thanks to you know who you are)

anyways, my current 2 groups are as follows:

GRP A: GRP B:
1) WAR 1) SK
2) CLR 2) CLR
3) ENC 3) SHM
4) RNG 4) BRD
5) ROG 5) MNK
6) WIZ 6) MAGE

my NEW plan is to change groups around to the follow (feedback appreciated)

GRP A: GRP B:
1) WAR 1) RANGER
2) CLR 2) CLR
3) ENC 3) SHM
4) BRD 4) BRD
5) ROG 5) MNK
6) WIZ 6) WIZ

do you think the ranger is ok to exp tank with? or would I be better with the keeping the SK and swapping the ranger to the bard instead? the only reason I could see for this is to have an extra tank in case of the warrior dying. but I'd think the ranger should still be able to hold his own with WS or whatever.

I really want to have a bard in both grps, and its so nice having a wiz for ports in each group - even if they do run out of mana easily.

again, any thoughts are appreciated. I am tempted to make a 3rd group, but for now I just dont see the benefit for me personally.

 

[LamahHerder]

Problem I ran into with considering 12 was not enough DPS
With 12 I dont think it wise to go for bard, it wont help with any boss encounters I dont think.... maybe 1 but not 2.

1 WAR	1 SHD
2 CLR	2 CLR
3 ENC	3 SHM
4 NEC	4 NEC
5 RNG	5 RNG
6 DRU	6 WIZ

Another idea when I was considering TLP a while ago

6 for tank+heal+support tank/heal may be too light
2 tank
2 clr
2 support (shaman for slow and enc for mez/mana)

6 for DPS
2 Wiz for DPS/Port --- or 2 dru so have option for 4 healers but no pohate or posky but could have pocket wiz or 2 for that....
4 MNK/ROG/RNG for DPS ---- Rangers probably better for botting with current era, may want to add 1-2 necro for mana twitch....

 

[nyghteyes]

I dropped most mages and wizards for melee dps (since it can be sustained at not cost) a while back which was Rog & Mnk. I have since switched to rangers and are amazingly better than monk and rog's with Endless quiver and Archery AA's.

Watching multiple rangers crack away at 400+DPS with bows made up my mind pretty fast. They just baz geared. I'm tempted to build 3 or 4 more of them.

 

[etherealmist]

Not really a response to anyone in particular, but just some notes:

If you can get your wizards harla dar necks and 2 high damage long recast spells (ancients or 2 of the new high damage nukes), and mana pres, you'll do really well with them. I twist Ancient Destruction of Ice + Ice Spear of Solest on my main wizard, and Ice spear + Elnerick's Electrical Rending on the others. My macro automatically changes to different spells if a mob is set up as being resistant to specific spells though. I don't run kissassist, but I know with it, you can twist spells really well. Add in a concussion if your main tank doesn't have a BOC.

Oh, mana burn!

Mages are really good again with their burns and fire pets. (Get same stuff as wizards, harla dar necks, and mana pers OR summon them with the new focus items *wink wink*)

Rangers require very little gear (blessed faydark thunderbolt + blessed mithril arrows) and whatever easy attack gear you can find.

If you're boxing more than one group, you'll want a bard in each group. This is just a must if you're going to be serious about boxing multiple groups. Fast moving, huge mana regen stacking, AE resists, overhaste for melee/rangers. You can do really awesome spell stacking (like 6 or 7 songs on your melee group bards) if you plan them out properly. Until late POP, their epic is also REQUIRED. Again, if you're being serious about boxing multiple groups, invest in bards + their epics. If you have a 3rd bard or more, you can skip the epic IF NEEDED, as you can dedicate that bard purely to a caster group and just use a drum.

Clerics are mandatory for each group.

A porter (preferably a wizard) in each group. A druid works, and gives you decent heals for rampage tanks and stuff though.

My groups when I'm killing things are:

Warrior
Monk
Bard
BL
Ranger
Cleric

Enchanter
Cleric
Druid
Bard
Mage
Necro

Wizard
Mage
Mage
Wizard
Cleric
Bard


Obviously, I move them around for moving and porting. Raid window FTW on that.

With that group I have 2 casted slows (BL/enchanter) and 2 procced slots (ranger/BL). Also one of my bards twists a slow.

A cleric for AE healing in every group.

My bard in the melee group basically runs a full tank/dps twist and gets resists from AEs from other bards. Cleric gets AE mana from other bards.

I cast savagery on my ranger and monk. Both have primals.

Weapon shield has so many uses as well.

I typically voltron with other people who bring 1-2 groups as well, so we can take out a fair amount of things, including some Luclin mobs, although we don't really go for those.

The more clerics you have, the more you can kill. Once you hit 6, you can take out probably most things in velious, depending on your dps.

Oh, and one thing people who box forget. Dire charm Turn that buff bitch enchanter into another dps class.

My third bard is set up to twist debuffs, slows, occlusion, and a frost or whatever primary dot resist I'm casting with my raid.

My second bard twists both AE songs as well as some melee songs depending on if the ranger is in that group or not, or more resist dots for dps.

My main bard twists Niv's Harmonic, Warsong of the Vah Shir, McVaxius, and guardian Rhythms (which all the bards twist for max MR).

If you are main tanking on a warrior, get a shield. My warrior mainhands BOC, and offhand swaps between Jaelen's/Horn of Hsagra/Sheild, depending on the fight, or defensive.

 

[braedo]

awesome reply ETH!

one question - with all those pet classes, doesnt it make it hard(er) for MOTM mobs?

 

[etherealmist]

awesome reply ETH!

one question - with all those pet classes, doesnt it make it hard(er) for MOTM mobs?

It lowers pet damage a little bit, but it's not that bad.

For perspective: In full 72 man raids with many more pet classes than what I bring, you'll still see mage pets do really great damage.

I'm not pet swarming with 18-24 pets. Also, I think you need to have like 9 pets for you to even notice a difference in damage at all.

Frenzied Burnout on mages is pretty insane damage right now with fire pets.

 

[braedo]

sorry to keep bombarding you with questions, but any thoughts / recommendations of a 3rd group of brd/clr/rangerx4 vs magx4

 

[Andyman1022]

Rangers, when properly weaponed and aa'd, do fairly well to very well on parses. On our hundred toon+ raids, monks and rogues typically make up the top twenty (alongside a few caster mains/boxes). Take it fwiw but if your purely thinking about adding a third group whose primary focus is dps, group or raid wise, I think a bard, cleric and four high dps melee or rangers or any mix of the two would be a big difference in your crew.

 

[etherealmist]

sorry to keep bombarding you with questions, but any thoughts / recommendations of a 3rd group of brd/clr/rangerx4 vs magx4

It's all personal preference and really what you're trying to accomplish with your group. I made a caster group because I had access to 3 casters.