Berserker DPS a bit... Underwhelming?

[Chip]

Hi all!

I've been using Kiss Assist for a while now, but recently dusted off an old berserker that was level 90 which was the level cap when I stopped playing her.

The short version:

I can't get the zerker to parse higher than about 500k, maybe 800k if a fire off all burns.

The long version:

She has approx 50k aa's as of this post, most focus is maxed, and most archetype aa's are maxed (those with anything to do with dps are maxed) class aa's are maxed with the exception of distraction attacks. I do still need to work on general a bit (combat stab, agility, etc)

She has a full set (and I mean full set) of the seaglass augs from CS, yet her hdex just barely broke 3k.

Her weapon is the drop from the undead camp in ME, the 2hb and has the crafted 2h dmg aug from TOL.

I have all of her abilities.

Why is she parsing so low? My paladin is parsing 300K ish (non-undead) just auto-attack. She parses 250k with just auto-attack. This seems really low as if I've done something in her build that has really monkied her dps up. When I'm seeing her constantly at the bottom of the parses with the enchanter, well, you can understand my overall dissatisfaction with whatever I have done to the toon or whatever Daybreak may have done.

As far as the Kissassist INI I'm using ShOeCrEwS' 120 Berserker {NoS}.

What am I doing wrong or did they nerf berserkers this badly?

Example parse:

[CODE title="Parse Data Non-Undead Burn"]Name Total DPS
Wizard 33,402,361 1,727,411
Paladin 26,890,557 1,300,804
Enchanter 17,437,121 942,365
Berserker 16,937,569 846,935
Bard 15,482,442 839,002
Cleric 0 0[/CODE]

 

[2ndGoat]

I'm not trying to sound cheeky here, but this exact question is one I never wanted to have to ask, which is why I coughed up the money for the CWTN plugins for my toons. I was using KA INIs for about a week before taking the leap and once I loaded CWTN, my DPS jumped off the charts.

I am not savvy enough to sift through your INI to see what could/couldn't be the issue, but I can suggest a fix: buy the CWTN plugin.

Unless you're on a server that doesn't allow for it, that's going to be your best solution IMO.

 

[Many_Whelps]

It's impossible to say without knowing what discs were running for that parse. Was that with Mangling Discipline running and all of the supporting AAs? A Mangling burn is way higher than any other duration disc, but it's a 26 minute refresh timer. If you didn't stack all of the burn AAs along with bard epic at the same time, you're not going to get high numbers on a short duration parse. And your group setup heavily favors the caster adps with the enchanter. No Bst or Shm means a lot missing for the zerk. You also have a few tiers of upgrades for the weapon still to get if you're using something that drops in ME (T1 ToL means there are 5 upgrades out there to get to T3 NoS).

3k hdex, if that is an unbuffed figure, is pretty good. I actually swap in a few hsta and hstr augs and try to run at about 2700 unbuffed hdex, which still puts you way above the crit rate cap. But honestly, you're giving the wizard a lot of support and nothing other than the bard for the zerk. So /shrug, idk, maybe that's not unexpected for a T1 ToL group geared zerk.

 

[ChatWithThisName]

Few things matter.
How long is the fight. We have DPS, we have total damage done. We can infer how long the fight is from that information....Approximately 20 seconds it would appear.
In 20 seconds with the right group composition a ToV T2 geared character can hit 1.3-1.6m+ DPS on Griklor. This assume a high HDex, appropriate augments to fill non-Type 5 Slots, using a tiered burn system that fires the right things in the right order and an appropriate weapon.
You're using T1 Weapon. Is this because the character is FTP? You mention the 2h weapon aug from ToL so I'm inclined to think you are at a gold acct at the time of the parse. So as many whelps mentioned, there's bigger sticks in the forest to hit things with.
Re: 3k HDex - Type 7's can have HDex on them as well. https://www.raidloot.com/items?name...=Group&prestige=Include&order=HDex&view=Table here's a quick list provided by raidloot.com your milage may vary. HDex improves accuracy as well crit chance, so it's a double edged sword. Accuracy is king when you hit with the force of a god. Missing a single swing could mean the difference in 100k to 300k DPS. The parse information lacks the details someone would want to determine how they are on accuracy and crit chance. Ideally you would miss no swings, but you certainly want to land most of them if possible. I haven't really gone too much into the details of parses to determine the right amount of HDex for most accuracy without deminishing returns, but I don't really think there is much need for other stats for a berserker. HSta perhaps but honestly that would be in a raid situation or if you're commonly fighting things that ramp/AoE the group (like in raids). Ideally you need enough health to survive a hit and get a heal. Beyond that it's not really needed and in fact a beserker should be harming themselves to ensure their health is below 90% or so to allow them to fire some abilities.

As Whelps mentioned, you don't have good synergy for a berserker. There are givers and takers in a group. Berserkers are takers. They feed off buffs and abilities and don't really give anything in return (save perhaps the aura and the shared violence line.) Having other classes with complimenting additions for the berserker to "take from" will improve a berserker exponentially. Sic tends to run SK, Shm, Brd, Bst, Zerk, Zerk. This way you have two berserkers as takers and the bst, brd, and shm all give to the Sk and the 2 Zerkers. Currently your list of givers is only the bard, which while beneficial is not really a lot of givers. (Cleric has zero to give but health/defense essentially. You'd do better with a shaman swap). Regarding the group makeup having an enchanter and a bard, you only really need one or the other. Having both is a bit of overkill. An enchanter can lock everything you need down, but then again so can an appropriately AA'd and geared Bard using generally just their AOE mez without the need to target swap and single mez. I consider them both to be CC, and having both in a single group is reducing your potential. Replace the Enchanter with something that compliments the berserker if that is your goal. I recommend a beastlord. But if you go beastlord and shaman you may as well swap out the Wizard for something that will benefit from the synergy of the groups givers. I suspect you're trying to using an enchanter and bard because the Wizard is staying out of mana all the freaking time (yeah, it's an issue, no amount of mana regen will fix it) I've gone so far as to have a bst, mage (mod rods), Necro (mana tap), Enchanter (hopefully obv this is mana regen buffs), bard (mana songs/aura), all trying to keep a wizard in the mana and failing to do so because of the sheer amount of mana they consume while still falling short in DPS compared to other group members.

That said, you may benefit more from a mage in that group instead of a berserker if you don't want to make any big changes to the group makeup. No doubt there is still room for improvements in the character itself, and while I'm sure the INI you're using is good It's possible you could also benefit from a resource specially designed for the character. Re" 2ndGoat's recommendation: You don't have to use my plugin, but it's an option to /testcopy your character and try it without any payment to see if it improves your situation. Additionally, you could try out RGMercs and see if that provides any benefit to the character as that's a free option as well.



I pulled these parses from the MQ2Berzerker page, all the parses were done in era for the thing they were fighting using the plugin. This should give you an idea of what a berserker can do on given mobs, and you may also notice the group makeup tended to be the suggested makeup above, Sk, Shm, Brd, Bst, Zerk, Zerk. The tank being interchangeable.

CWTN

 

[hellfyre]

This may be a stupid question but I didn't see it mentioned. Does the zerker have all the required axe components?

 

[Chip]

This may be a stupid question but I didn't see it mentioned. Does the zerker have all the required axe components?

That she does. Every axe since level 90 she has at least 2 stacks and comps to make more. The Kiss INI also makes axes automatically when low.

CWTN

I'm thinking this is likely the problem along with the synergy. I had a friend loan me his necro the other day and I'm pretty sure that the dps I've been missing. Not only can that necro parse in the 2m's, but turning the mobs undead for the pally so he parses 3m is invaluable as well. Obviously, I would want to keep the bard around and the wizard - the wiz is constantly high parsing no matter the situation, and the added benefit of porting where I want when I want for 0pp is there too. Essentially I'm seeing the other classes in the group as rather vital (but that's my opinion), however, I'm having a hard time understanding what has happened to the berserkers. The last time I played her she was consistently top in the parses if not right below the wiz. That was back in underfoot though when pallies were the neglected red-headed stepchildren of SOE and couldn't get a decent parse on anything but undead (that's not the case today from what I've seen in parses lol).

She does have a few decent agus, I've spent the past few months running around grabbing augs and the recent memorial day 2x name spawn with the 2x exp accelerated that more than I thought it would. Her gear is all TOL group crafted. I made her the Bardache, but I was told by several other toons on the server I committed a sin by not going with the attunable hammer that drops in ME because it was higher dmg, but higher delay. I switched it out from having a few copies of that in her inventory an noticed no DPS improvement or detriment. That's why I'm using the T1 weapon with T2 crafted aug. I could go back but as I mentioned I didn't see any noticeable parse changes after averaging about 20 different parses before and after. If there was a difference it was well within the standard deviation.

Decap is also new to me. I was told that was supposed to be like slay undead, backstab, or HS, but I'm just not seeing it fire off which I know it only fires off while using axe throws and frenzies. I just don't see a wildly "omg" crit when using those abilities.

I guess my question really is, is the 300-500k dps (200-300k without the bard) normal for a newish level 120 berserker? Newish meaning she does have 43K aa's but that comes quick it seems - most focus is maxed, all relevant dps aa's in class and archetype also maxed. The only thing really left to work on that I can see is her general tab, combat stab/agi, natural durability, etc... Yeah she gets one-shot a lot :P

To be completely honest, when I spent the time getting all the hdex multi-stat agus for my paladin, I noticed a considerable dps hike something like 200-300k average to 600k (this was a few months back). I have not seen the same on the beserker, maybe - just maybe - there was a 10k dps difference. The Seaglass Curios are decent hdex mutlistat agus from what I've seen considering the amount you have access to that all have lore tags. Maybe it was just my expectations getting the better of me that led to the huge disappointment there, but it seems, in my mind, she should have had a substantial bump in dps after camping undertoe for 2 weeks straight.

I keep the wiz around for portals and raw dps. He's fairly good on Mana - if he's low on mana with all the harvests they get now, the cleric is too and it's time to take a break XD. I'm sure the chanter's mana regen does help a lot. The chanter is there for the instant mez. You can't beat aoe mezzing literally everything in under a second. When you pull 20 mobs in UP in the caves (which happens a lot), the chanter will save the group hands-down. The bard can't do that. I keep the bard around to amplify everyone else's dps and the double invis with super-speed is almost worth it alone lol. The bard's ability to reduce your weapon delay as well as give an over-haste is something I can't drop the bard for - but they're really missing that AOE "stop the press" ability.

The pally can tank 5-6 mobs without issue. More than 6 and I'm burning melee guards (honor/protection), and more than 8 I'm burning discs too (which is 55% dmg absorption with guards; not including withstand line). I can tank up to about 12 without help from the chanter, at 13 I have to have all mobs either slowed or partially mezzed. But one thing is for sure, after about 5 mobs, I'm in sword & board mode for the 12k ac and my dps turns to sheet, so it's not a desirable configuration to be in, to more than half dps potential. Again I'm not sure the bard is up for that task of slowing and mezzing as the chanter can.

I get what you're saying about takers and givers, but I'm still missing something. Again I'm not seeing these big crits everyone talks about - I see them on the pally when fighting undead, it's hard to miss the mob dropping 10-30% of it's hp in one tick, but the Bersker's attacks are just as the title says, 'underwhelming'. I'm very much hoping for some perhaps better gear (she's fully decked out in ensanguined gear including all the augs she can have via lore blocking and full set of seaglass curios, it's on every piece of gear the NOS, TOL, COV, and TOV proficiency augs aren't on already). But the same goes for the paladin. The only difference between the two in gear is the paladin has a few TOL raid items on him, 2h is TOL raid crafted, chest, legs, shoulder, feet all TOL raid crafted, the rest are COV raid crafted. The only non-raid item is the belt. I expect the paladin to parse higher on undead, but not regular mobs.

 

[Sic]

I would definitely make sure you're using eqlogparser and not dpsadv if you really want some good and accurate dps numbers.

You also want to ensure all your filters are showing correctly.

Fatty high delay 2h, ~2800+ hdex, 2h Aug (hopefully with proc), veil, mount, familiar, bard epic + adps, shm epic +adps, bst adps, another zerker (or 2) for synergy or a rogue for adps, decent luck, make sure you have type 3s to match the abilities you're using, the tov luminous restless ice Aug.

 

[nuggy]

well they nurfed them for 1 , so they dont do what they used to , i ended up parkin mine an dont even log him in nemore,,, sad days

 

[Sic]

well they nurfed them for 1 , so they dont do what they used to , i ended up parkin mine an dont even log him in nemore,,, sad days

Well they fixed a bug, and with the body type revamp it gave rogues a needed bump.

They still do *alright* using zerkers is definitely not going to make you suck so hard you can't do anything

 

[Vedaire]

dont forget jann's veil as well quite a nice little boost there too

 

[Shadow]

Synergy = King. While sure, those classes are fine and work but don't complain if one or more are lacking in DPS because you do not have the right synergy. There is a reason I, and many others, have posted about proper synergy and the "meta" regarding min/maxing your groups to achieve full potential.

No SHM, no BST, just the BRD for aDPS. The BER cannot achieve its full potential as he has no additional support for him. We don't know his buffs, epics, and augs (besides CoV). Since you are using the 120 KA ini, I assume your toons are 120, and the gear difference between ToL T1, and the group crafted is pretty significant.

I ran SHD/SHM/BRD/BST/BER/ROG with full ToL T3 on all, poisons for ROG synergy, and my BER would be at 1.4m+ on the fights that mattered. Reaching almost 2.5m for older stuff like Zland. I was using CWTN plugins for all but the BRD obviously, but still.

While you can run 1 tank, 5 wizards...is it really beneficial in terms of the long run? No. It is why we don't run that group makeup.

Look at min/maxing your group synergy above everything else. Then you can fine-tune your ini or other aspects of your characters IMHO.

 

[Chip]

To sate the curiosity, this is the weapon she's running. It is the TOL t2b. I think I was able to fix a LOT of the DPS issues with the plugin though.



Most gear is either T2 raid or T2 group. Every multistat agu is the seaglass curio (or better) except for the weap. I do have the effect augs slotted out - but zurkers don't seem to get enough to slot every non-vis.

The only thing she is lacking that I know of is regular augs.



Because she's an older toon recommissioned, many of her normal aug slots are still less than 100 hp with no gold stats. I've gone after all the augs I can get with restless and ossified ores though. We're talking about maybe 6-7 modern augments and I have a few drops.



DPS is still not what others are showing, she can burn up to 1.4m dps now, but normal dps is still about 500k.

I'll freely admit though, gear-wise, my paladin is in far better shape.



Even in AA's.

vs

Hopefully, this gives some insight to help get to the bottom of this.

Again, she's parsing better with the plugin, but not as I would expect to see other parses. Surely not having the proper synergy doesn't chop dps in half, or does it?

As far a synergies go, the problem with dropping the cleric for say a shaman is that the cleric and paladin seem to synergize far better with a certain spell I don't want to mention for some anxiety that it could be nerfed :P Which essentially turns the paladin into a god with all of the cleric's proc-heals (yeah it's the short-duration buff).

I'm thinking about dropping the chanter and using him for just buffs, but if I do, I'm not sure what toon to replace him with. Beastlord? I know the necro would synergize with the paladin far better than the bst just by his ability to turn any non-undead mob undead. When fighting regular mobs, his own DPS aside, the net increase from turning the mob undead alone would be almost 1m. I'm still rather fond of the wizard - it was my first toon It's just too bad there are no real synergies.

 

[Husky87]

Hi all!

I've been using Kiss Assist for a while now, but recently dusted off an old berserker that was level 90 which was the level cap when I stopped playing her.

The short version:

I can't get the zerker to parse higher than about 500k, maybe 800k if a fire off all burns.

The long version:

She has approx 50k aa's as of this post, most focus is maxed, and most archetype aa's are maxed (those with anything to do with dps are maxed) class aa's are maxed with the exception of distraction attacks. I do still need to work on general a bit (combat stab, agility, etc)

She has a full set (and I mean full set) of the seaglass augs from CS, yet her hdex just barely broke 3k.

Her weapon is the drop from the undead camp in ME, the 2hb and has the crafted 2h dmg aug from TOL.

I have all of her abilities.

Why is she parsing so low? My paladin is parsing 300K ish (non-undead) just auto-attack. She parses 250k with just auto-attack. This seems really low as if I've done something in her build that has really monkied her dps up. When I'm seeing her constantly at the bottom of the parses with the enchanter, well, you can understand my overall dissatisfaction with whatever I have done to the toon or whatever Daybreak may have done.

As far as the Kissassist INI I'm using ShOeCrEwS' 120 Berserker {NoS}.

What am I doing wrong or did they nerf berserkers this badly?

Example parse:

[CODE title="Parse Data Non-Undead Burn"]Name Total DPS
Wizard 33,402,361 1,727,411
Paladin 26,890,557 1,300,804
Enchanter 17,437,121 942,365
Berserker 16,937,569 846,935
Bard 15,482,442 839,002
Cleric 0 0[/CODE]

With the Zerker plugins my zerkers pull on average 1.4m with 51k ish AA