Idea - bard/mage/necro

[dannuic]

I know this may not fall under the intended use of KISS, but I've been recently playing around with a bard/mage/necro setup. I use the bard to pull (obviously) but if I have a tank merc out, I can't mezz with him because the merc tank will just let the bard die as soon as mezz breaks or the bard will keep 3 mobs on lockdown without ever waking any of them up.

My question is: how would I best set this trio up for KISS? Perhaps I'm just thick and missed a whole section on having a pet be the main tank, but would it work if I just set my mage up to be the tank? That would have problems with breaking mezz as well since pets won't do that, I'd have to nuke once to break it.

The setup works as is, and KA7 will probably make everything so much better, but I was just wondering what people with similar setups are doing?

 

[Maskoi]

i don't understand why your merc isn't attacking the mobs? Is the merc in the same group?


Pets can't attack Mezzed mobs thats everquest and no away around it snd Kiss doesn't automate pet tanks you would have to play your mage.

 

[Hanlons Razor]

If you aren't trying to pet tank (using tank merc) then you could probably just set your bard as pullertank and he'll break the mezzes for you.

 

[Maskoi]

yar good idea

 

[aligwilliams]

or one i use is assistat 100
have your necro/mage break mez with a low agro spell.

 

[dannuic]

Yeah, I was using merc before (he was in the group), and he wouldn't attack mobs that the bard had previously mezzed unless it hit someone other than the bard. He would happily let the bard get beat to death. It might work if the bard attacked the mob, so setting him as pullertank might work -- I'll have to try it. I'm also going to have to try the assistat 100 technique, though I'm not quite sure who to assist if the bard is cycling targets to mezz and the merc tank isn't targeting in the first place.

I thought that KISS couldn't handle a pet tank (mainly because pets won't break mezz), which is why I went the merc route in the first place. The problem seems that mercs don't always break mezz either (though they appear to sometimes, I can't quite figure out the pattern just yet). At the very least they behave strangely around mezzed mobs. It'd be nice to be able to do without the merc tank, I feel like the mage pet is better (with decent AA's).

 

[aligwilliams]

i take it the tank merc is the bards.
if its a option use a tank merc from one of the others and try not to use a healer merc on the puller.
puller and mercs are sensitive.
i would have your mages first spell to cast that malo/dd spell and assist the bard on what ever target hes on at the time he will pick up the mez's on the others fine. as soon as some 1 other then the mercs owner gets agro they seem to jump in a lot quicker

 

[dannuic]

Okay, I set the bard to pullertank with mez enabled, and for the most part it runs fine. Every so often, however, he'll brak a mez and tank a mob and the tank merc never comes over to help (and it seems that the cleric merc does little, too) so that tells me that there's a range issue... I have the bard set as puller in games as well. Which setting do I tweak to get him to make sure to pull back closer to camp?

Also, I think he goes into "lockdown mode" when there are mobs nearby but not in camp (or aggroing), trying to tweak the mez radius to see if that helps.

- - - Updated - - -

i take it the tank merc is the bards.
if its a option use a tank merc from one of the others and try not to use a healer merc on the puller.
puller and mercs are sensitive.
i would have your mages first spell to cast that malo/dd spell and assist the bard on what ever target hes on at the time he will pick up the mez's on the others fine. as soon as some 1 other then the mercs owner gets agro they seem to jump in a lot quicker

Actually, the bard has no merc out. The mage has a tank and the necro has a healer. I think it has to do with the fact that the bard is set to puller but not pulling far enough back to camp to trigger the tank merc's assist radius.

 

[Maskoi]

Set your campradius to 30 and youe meleedistance to 50 and plant the bard right next to your entire group when you start the macro

 

[Hanlons Razor]

Is the bard pulling the mobs to camp then running out to meet them? If so, you can decrease the melee distance in the DPS section. IE MeleeDistance=75, try changing it to 50 or so.

Also, I make sure returntocamp is on on my puller and I actually start his macro a little behind the rest of my characters so when he pulls, the mob plops right in the middle of the group trying to reach my puller instead of out in front.

 

[dannuic]

The idea of starting behind the characters seems good. I think also my melee distance is too large at the moment. Thanks, I'll give these all a try.

- - - Updated - - -

I've tested it a bit and it seems like all these suggestions help, but I can't figure out why the bard goes into lockdown mode and just constant remezzes everything (with him as PullerTank). I'm just gonna post my bard's ini and maybe you can see what I'm doing wrong. He is right now in the middle of a lockdown loop.

[General]
KissAssistVer=6.8.8
Role=PullerTank
CampRadius=30
CampRadiusExceed=400
ReturnToCamp=1
ChaseAssist=0
ChaseDistance=25
MedOn=1
MedStart=25
MedCombat=0
LootOn=0
RezAcceptOn=1
AcceptInvitesOn=1
GroupWatchOn=1
EQBCOn=1
IRCOn=0
MiscGem=9
HoTTOn=0
CampfireOn=0
TwistOn=1
TwistMed=1
TwistWhat=1 6 7 8
[Buffs]
BuffsOn=1
Buffs1=Distorting Crystal Grimace
Buffs2=Cloak of Serenity
Buffs3=Bubbling Shoulderpads
Buffs4=Band of Focused Terrors
Buffs5=Blue Belt
Buffs6=Baneice Globe
Buffs7=Aura of the Orator|Aura
Buffs8=Mysterious Belt of Daggers|Summon|Well Balanced Throwing Knife|200
Buffs9=Selo's Sonata
Buffs10=NULL
Buffs11=NULL
Buffs12=NULL
Buffs13=NULL
Buffs14=NULL
Buffs15=NULL
Buffs16=NULL
Buffs17=NULL
Buffs18=NULL
Buffs19=NULL
Buffs20=NULL
RebuffOn=1
[Melee]
AssistAt=95
MeleeOn=1
FaceMobOn=1
MeleeDistance=50
StickHow=snaproll
AutoFireOn=0
MeleeTwistOn=1
MeleeTwistWhat=1 6 7 8
[AE]
AEOn=0
AERadius=50
[DPS]
DPSOn=0
DPSSkip=20
DPSInterval=5
DPS1=Lyrical Prankster|96
DPS2=Boastful Bellow|92
DPS3=NULL
DPS4=NULL
DPS5=NULL
DPS6=NULL
DPS7=NULL
DPS8=NULL
DPS9=NULL
DPS10=NULL
[Pull]
PullTwistOn=0
PullWith=Well Balanced Throwing Knife|Well Balanced Throwing Knife
MaxRadius=2000
MaxZRange=50
PullWait=0
BuffWait=30
[Heals]
Help=Format Spell|% to heal at i.e. Devout Light Rk. II|50
HealsOn=0
Heals1=NULL
Heals2=NULL
Heals3=NULL
Heals4=NULL
Heals5=NULL
XTarHeal=0
[Cures]
CuresOn=0
[Mez]
MezOn=1
MezRadius=75
MezMinLevel=60
MezMaxLevel=98
MezStopHPs=80
MezSpell=Slumber of Kolain
MezAESpell=Wave of the Conductor|2
[Burn]
BurnText=Decepticons Attack
[AFKTools]
AFKHelp=AFKGMAction=0 Off, 1 Pause Macro, 2 End Macro, 3 Unload MQ2, 4 Quit Game
AFKToolsOn=0
AFKGMAction=1
AFKPCRadius=150
CampOnDeath=0
[Merc]
Help=To use: Turn off Auto Assist in Manage Mercenary Window
MercOn=0
MercAssistAt=92

- - - Updated - - -

Watching closely, I see that right before he goes into "lockdown" he tries to tank the mob, then notices it was on his mez list and remezzes it. I think this might be odd territory for KA since it was designed around a tank. Is that a fair assumption, and before I dig deeper, is it even worth trying?

- - - Updated - - -

And the plot thickens...

I tabbed out to look at my ini's and do some research, and tab back in to find 5 mobs beating on the mercs (both the tank and cleric) standing directly over the body of my bard. The cleric was healing fine, but I had to toggle stances on my tank in order for it to attack --it was literally just standing there on top of the bard corpse. I had turned off mezzing for the time being to figure out if the aforementioned changes to my ini had fixed my merc not assisting (apparently not lol). There is definitely something up with the tank merc, I think it's conspiring against me...

 

[Maskoi]

Actually I wrote Kiss 1&2 around my bard since no macro ever handled them well IMO that's why the mez works so well.

Working as intended. Kiss is coded to lockdown everything. BArds aren't Tank they get ripped to shreds and it never occurred to me to have them in pullertank mode while mezzing. It won't be in KA& but soon after I will look at how to fix that scenario. Meanwhile how about that Kiss bard Mez?

 

[dannuic]

Working as intended. Kiss is coded to lockdown everything. BArds aren't Tank they get ripped to shreds and it never occurred to me to have them in pullertank mode while mezzing. It won't be in KA& but soon after I will look at how to fix that scenario. Meanwhile how about that Kiss bard Mez?

Well, it's working wonderfully then =). I'll have to either write something else, deal with it and not mezz, or level up a tank. Also, the merc still does funny things, but that's an EQ problem not a KISS problem...

Also, the KISS bard mez is AMAZING. Keeping shit on lockdown forever (until his mana runs out). I'll have to see if it works that well on a chanter =P.

 

[Hanlons Razor]

Well, it's working wonderfully then =). I'll have to either write something else, deal with it and not mezz, or level up a tank. Also, the merc still does funny things, but that's an EQ problem not a KISS problem...

Also, the KISS bard mez is AMAZING. Keeping shit on lockdown forever (until his mana runs out). I'll have to see if it works that well on a chanter =P.

Leveling up my SK is the best thing I ever did for my MQ/EQ career. Kiss+MQ2melee plays a shadowknight better than I do... haha.

What I would do with the upcoming changes is PL yourself a SK to 85+ or to the level of your other chars (don't bother with a single AA), go gold right away, go camp it a full set of AC augs, get his epic 2.0 done, hopefully all in time for the free AAs to kick in and you'll have a solid tank to start working with.

 

[Maskoi]

You can be my guinea pig. Try this find the sub routine below

| -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| SUB: Do Mez Stuff
| -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sub DoMezStuff
        /doevents
        /if (!${MezOn} || ${Window[RespawnWnd].Open} || ${DMZ}) /return
        /if (${DebugMez}) /echo ...debug_mez DoMezStuff: enter
        /declare i int local

And cut and paste this line in

	/if (${IAmABard} && ${MainAssist.Equal[${Me}]} && ${MyTargetID} && ${AggroTargetID} && ${AddsArray[${i},1].Equal[${MyTargetID}]}) /goto :SkipMez

about here

 /if (${Spawn[${AddsArray[${i},1]}].PctHPs}<${MezStopHPs}) /goto :SkipMez
            /if (${DebugMez}) /echo (${AddsArray[${i},2]}>${MezMaxLevel} || ${AddsArray[${i},2]}<${MezMinLevel})
            /if (${AddsArray[${i},2]}>${MezMaxLevel} || ${AddsArray[${i},2]}<${MezMinLevel}) /goto :SkipMez
            /if (${DebugMez}) /echo !${Spawn[${AddsArray[${i},1]}].LineOfSight})
            /if (!${Spawn[${AddsArray[${i},1]}].LineOfSight}) /goto :SkipMez
	    /if (${IAmABard} && ${MainAssist.Equal[${Me}]} && ${MyTargetID} && ${AggroTargetID} && ${AddsArray[${i},1].Equal[${MyTargetID}]}) /goto :SkipMez
            /if (${DebugMez}) /echo ${Spawn[${AddsArray[${i},1]}].Body.Name.Equal[Giant]}) /goto :SkipMez
            /if (${Spawn[${AddsArray[${i},1]}].Body.Name.Equal[Giant]}) /goto :SkipMez
            /if (${MezImmune.Find[${AddsArray[${i},3]}]}) {
                /if (${MMTimer${i}}==0) /call BroadCast ${IRCOn} ${EQBCOn} g "MEZ Immune Detected -> ${AddsArray[${i},3]} <- ID:${AddsArray[${i},1]}"
                /varset MMTimer${i} 1m
                /goto :SkipMez
            }

In theory this should skip the the mob he is currently aggroed on and he should start beating on it.

 

[dannuic]

Heh, I already had that routine open from before I decided to go to sleep last night (without making changes, I was just starting to track the variables =P). That line does indeed work (at least from the initial results it appears to). I've had a couple instances of 2-3 mobs in camp already and the bard will not remezz the mob after the TANKING message comes up in bc. Perfect =D.

Still have the merc problem because he hates my bard. I think it has to do with the merc not attacking the mob before it gets mezzed, messes up their "attack this crap" code. Again, something in game, I'll play around with the tank/assist/puller designations a bit to see if it helps.

 

[aligwilliams]

Leveling up my SK is the best thing I ever did for my MQ/EQ career. Kiss+MQ2melee plays a shadowknight better than I do... haha.

i have to agree with that.
but its if his computer can take another toon or if he has access to muti comps

 

[dannuic]

Doing my due diligence and testing, I'm going to report back. I just now had my first bard death (after moving to a higher level zone). When he died, he forgot about a mob (it disappeared off the xtargets, so I think the mezz memblurred it) and proceeded to pull more mobs into camp. Everything actually ended up fine, he just had to tank the last mob (which is the one he forgot about) at the end for a little too long by himself, so he was the only one who died and the rest of the group easily handled that last mob. In all, this fix was pretty successful =).

On that note, I think I'm going to level up an actual tank for some more hardcore afk leveling, the merc tank doesn't really fit the bill. And whereas my mage pet can tank with the best of them, I'm not sure the best way to do that afk =/.

 

[Hanlons Razor]

Doing my due diligence and testing, I'm going to report back. I just now had my first bard death (after moving to a higher level zone). When he died, he forgot about a mob (it disappeared off the xtargets, so I think the mezz memblurred it) and proceeded to pull more mobs into camp. Everything actually ended up fine, he just had to tank the last mob (which is the one he forgot about) at the end for a little too long by himself, so he was the only one who died and the rest of the group easily handled that last mob. In all, this fix was pretty successful =).

On that note, I think I'm going to level up an actual tank for some more hardcore afk leveling, the merc tank doesn't really fit the bill. And whereas my mage pet can tank with the best of them, I'm not sure the best way to do that afk =/.

Yeah even if you can get the mage pet tanking while afk, I don't think it's going to be as reliable as a SK. Your mage will eventually get summoned or be too close to the mob for some reason or another and it'll probably cause a wipe. I say SK b/c their aoe and single target agro is second to none, plus all the self healing and superior burn DPS for named makes them ideal (imo). Not that others won't work. I'd like to try a pally with kiss/shits sometime... I bet you could get away with just a sham healer with pally providing offheals.

 

[eqgeek]

Doing my due diligence and testing, I'm going to report back. I just now had my first bard death (after moving to a higher level zone). When he died, he forgot about a mob (it disappeared off the xtargets, so I think the mezz memblurred it) and proceeded to pull more mobs into camp. Everything actually ended up fine, he just had to tank the last mob (which is the one he forgot about) at the end for a little too long by himself, so he was the only one who died and the rest of the group easily handled that last mob. In all, this fix was pretty successful =).

On that note, I think I'm going to level up an actual tank for some more hardcore afk leveling, the merc tank doesn't really fit the bill. And whereas my mage pet can tank with the best of them, I'm not sure the best way to do that afk =/.

What do you have each member of the group set to? I've been researching this and seems that when it comes to mercs and mezz and pullers you need to have the tank merc set to tank, the bard as puller, and the mage as main assist. The dummy merc tank will attack nearby mobs even if the mage doesn't have one targeted. It doesn't always work for me, but usually the chanter (in my case) lets mez wear off on one mob, and then the merc takes over.

 

[PeteSampras]

I actually use necro pull when i box with one (i use my own mac, but the principle applies). Bard stays at group for extra mana regen and so that the songs are fully up once the mob(s) arrive + plays crowd control if anything unexpected appears in camp. Necro never needs the mana regen anyway. This was especially effective when I was pet pulling/tanking. Necro would AA root the mobs so they are away from group (as could bard/druid/enc) or bard could mez until ready to engage. Typically when I was pet tanking, i prefered mobs marked rather than mezzed so that I could send pets at 100% without having to break mez.

 

[deaths]

one thing i seen with merc's is it seem even little hills can throw them off some times ive had healers not healing well i am well with in range just cuz there slightly behind a hill that a gnome wouldint be able to bounce his balls off soon as i moved the tank to the top of this little bump she healed fine