My retirement (1 Viewer)

After some of the recent events, and comments that have been made to me, my views on providing precompiles to others on sites like RG have changed. I examined some of the things that I was saying, some of the reasons that I lashed out, from the perspective of the programmers on the MQ2 VIP website, and found myself to be no better than the people who took my precompile from this website and posted it elsewhere.

My precompile for this patch has been removed, which is not a major loss, since TurkReno has one posted that will service just fine. But I can no longer support the posting of such. While I will continue to compile for myself and some of my friends, such will no longer be available to the public.

I offer my sincerest apologies to the authors of the plugins that I used in my precompile without their consent. I was wrong to do so.

wow, a precompiler with a soul? it can't be

for once odessa, just once... it would be nice to see you make a legitmate non flame comment. just once. it wouldn't even hurt.

I am sure I speak for the majority of the RG membership when we say we hate to see you stop, but your reasons are fair and just. Thanks for all the time you put into the compiles man, myself and many others appreciate it. I am sure you will find ways to help and contribute to RG long after you pull the plug on precompiles.

seek&destroy, that's not a flame. That's lightening the situation up. Seriously, go buy a fucking tampon. (For future reference, the previous and current sentences are flames, please don't continue to confuse them in the future)

And TheZ, I think now is the time for you to learn how to develop stuff! Precompiling was my jumping off point to start to develop some fun stuff and I've noticed you have very good attention to detail which is one of the most important building blocks in a developer's mindset.

P.S. Even according to fearless there is no question that the guild that put up your compile had no right to. You atleast contribute something to the MQ2 community by compiling and very meticulously organizing it as soon as you can every patch. To be honest, when my friends used to get RedGuides accounts and ask me "Where can I find a compile?" all I would say is "Just search for TheZ and go to the first post you find, his is the best by far." TurkReno's going to have some mighty large shoes to fill.

thez, I'll miss your precompiles.

You made me extremely lazy by making excellent compiles for the masses.

I used to compile my own before your speediness came along. Looks like I'll be back to compiling since I've been slack. For some reason, I just don't trust other compiles like yours. Superstitious I guess.

Guess some good comes out of you stopping the precompiles. You'll make me proud of compiling my own once again. Funny though, I never felt guilty using your compiles. heh.


Thanks for all the work you had put in, and I am sure, will continue in other ways. /salute

Gawd .... I'm already going through "TheZ" withdrawall. Too bad there are soooo many primadonna arses out there who would rather flame, blame and criticize than to contribute so much as you have. I'm gonna miis ya buddy
Be well and thank you for what you've given us.

Guys, it's not about flaming, or really about most of the comments that people have made.

It was just me realizing that while maybe from a legal standpoint, I could post the precompile just fine, from a moral standpoint I was just as bad as the people who posted my precompile elsewhere.

Can't believe these douches really changed your mind about that Z. They have an eerie effect on precompilers. This site wouldn't be here without precompiles, it never would have jumped off. RG owes precompiles.

I wanted to add to this post: when precompiling first came out, it wasn't about who took it or who did what, as long as people weren't taking it and selling it elsewhere. It was about the advancement of cheating and being able to do bigger and better things without being caught. Now, everybody's a big pussy and doesn't want to cheat the cheaters, because that would be morally wrong....see how fucking idiotic that sounds? Morally wrong to produce a cheat that might go against the moral values of cheaters. Wow.

This 'moral code' that some people have been able to instill in others has completely destroyed the advancement of cheating, itself. At least here on RG, it has.

TheZ, morally you are still contributing to the project by providing a valuable service. Honestly if you were around x-mas 2003 in the MQ2 channel people were in there every day saying "cn sum1 plz compiel 4 me?" and it drove half of the channel up the wall. Now there is virtually no one there ever asking for a compile. If anything, you're providing a direct service to dkaa in maintaining his low blood pressure.

And darkeros, think of it this way, if you coded a plugin and someone took it and made money off of it and didn't give you a penny, would you be pissed? They did no work other than downloading and compiling it but somehow they're making money and you're not. That's not right at all.

If we're trying to maintain people's blood pressure, then don't cheat at all. You'll save lots of bp's in SOE offices. Let's get our morals in line here and not be selective.

TeachersPet said:

And darkeros, think of it this way, if you coded a plugin and someone took it and made money off of it and didn't give you a penny, would you be pissed? They did no work other than downloading and compiling it but somehow they're making money and you're not. That's not right at all.

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Until there's better file protection to stop something like that, I would understand that releasing it would allow something like that. ITS CALLED CHEATING, don't cry if you get cheated at the same time....

TeachersPet said:

TheZ, morally you are still contributing to the project by providing a valuable service. Honestly if you were around x-mas 2003 in the MQ2 channel people were in there every day saying "cn sum1 plz compiel 4 me?" and it drove half of the channel up the wall. Now there is virtually no one there ever asking for a compile. If anything, you're providing a direct service to dkaa in maintaining his low blood pressure.

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By the way, there's probably a reason people aren't asking for it there. The main one is probably because anyone asking that would get pounded, immediately, which is understandable. The second is probably because you can find compiles, or people who will compile for you, outside of MQ2-specific areas now, such as here. I really like to think that precompiles do more for the advancement of cheating than lots of other better things, such as creating ghostkill, because it has the chance to inspire someone who has the will and determination to begin compiling and finding their own offsets and eventually making plugins.

darkeros, don't make me start up on you now.

I looked for any development you've done, there is none so you don't understand what it's like. When you actually understand what it's like to have someone steal your code and try and sell it under their name (like MMOBugs and GamerGenesis have done to me), let me know.

You're right. I couldn't possibly understand. It's impossible to fathom the depth of sadness you're forced to endure.

seek&destroy said:

for once odessa, just once... it would be nice to see you make a legitmate non flame comment. just once. it wouldn't even hurt.

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Dude what is wrong with you? It was a joke, take your head out of your ass if you can't see that. I'm not even going to search for who the hell you are and why you made that comment.

p.s. I stopped caring about precompiles when I understood that it's not possible to do anything about them, I just saw how Z had a change of heart and wanted to make a light joke.

darkeros said:

If we're trying to maintain people's blood pressure, then don't cheat at all. You'll save lots of bp's in SOE offices. Let's get our morals in line here and not be selective.

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as much as some of darkeros posts are loathsome, I kind of agree here with what he is saying.....

There really isn't a grey area, imho, when speaking of MQ2. It does provide an unfair advantage to one over non users. Whats more you are either a purist and play the game as intended, or you aren't. All these shades of grey in the middle are just odd human things.

At the heart of the matter, you are either cheating or you aren't. All precompiles do is remove the exclusionary technical barrier that the MQ2 Devs and those bright enough to compile their own junk would like to see in place. This affords a certain amount of control over who can and who can't use a tool to cheat.

When all is said and done, we ARE dealing with an open source project here. Last I checked, the whole idea of open source projects is so that there isn't exlusion and any/all who are willing to contribute to a project are welcome to do so.

I think where people get their panties in a wad is, with out question, the money factor. If you are trying to profit by selling OPEN SOURCE CODE, then you are on some shaky moral ground to begin with. I don't quite lump Redguides into this because it is a subscription site where members may or may not choose to precompile. You aren't exactly promised that a compile will be there for you; however, you are garenteed that like minded people doing interesting things in game will be on the forums to bounce thoughts and ideas off of, along with code.

Since I've been on Redguides, one thing is certain.....for every precompiler who drops off, two or three are chomping at the bit to pick up where the last left off. In this sense, even the precompiled aspects of MQ2, I view as an evolution in the open source project.

You simply can't throw out source code in an open source project, then cry foul when someone takes that source code and does something with it, whether you intended that code to be used in a manner or not.

But yea....taking someone's source code, compiling it and then trying to profit directly off of it, such as what happens with GamerGen - again, the question of money - is pretty sleezy at best.

At the end of the day, don't allow your mind to be a whore. See what we are doing for exactly what it is, as Dark said....cheating. Any grey areas you try to create in your mind to make you sleep better at night are justifications and self delusion.

I will miss your compiles Z. And your not making money off this so i dont know how you think your anything like the ones who took yours. Your just saving alot of peeps some work is all. And i must say that Mq is not just one guys work. There is so many peeps that help that never get credit. I personally have not got into development of plugins yet, but i am working my way to it.

I understand not wanting to put the vip plugins in, But id say like 90% of us have vip access. And the ones who dont soon will. So maybe we can make a VIP only part for RGs. I just wish you the best and i hope you come back.

Im sorry to see ya go Z. I really appreciate your work. Thanks for all you did.

Yeah, I'll really miss your compiles. Wish I had money so I could pay you for personal ones lol.. Sucky pattern it seems to be, keep losing my favorite compilers.

WOOT. One pre compiler down.... now only 1000 to go lol. Hopefully we will still see ya around and advance your what you've learned to contribute in other ways. I think no person with the skills to make plugins and complex macros will ever respect a precompiler, but if I HAD to respect one I'd choose you HEHEHE. Who knows what the future will hold for you, but its good that your getting away from precompiles.

Noobhaxor

Well Damn..... I sure hate to see some coder get trashed like this and feel like crap... TheZ Hang in there man.... Hell ALL of this is just a game anyway right???

And you learn and hone your skills working the game which in turns makes you a better coder right....

Dark is certainly correct about the cheaters thing.We are all cheaters,everyone who comes to sites like this are lookin for ways to cheat in some form or fashion.
MQ2 cheats SoE,The precompilers cheat MQ2 and the shady sellers cheat the precompilers.Ahhh so much cheating going on, some of it very unsavory,some of it for fun,some of it for the challenge to hack and so on and so forth.But it all amounts to the same thing,its cheating.I guess you could cling to the old notion of honor amongst theives or in this case cheaters.

If we all were so worried about morals,we would play EQ the way SoE intended it to be played and not break there EULA with 3rd party programs.
If MQ2 or others cant take the heat from other cheaters,cheating them out of there cheats.Then pack up and ship out,pull the plug once and for all.I imagine youd feel like SoE must feel having there product abused.
Morals indeed,lol the irony is so silly its amusing.


But besides that, i loved the Zs compiles,its sad he wont be makin them anymore and i wish him all the luck on whatever he decides to do.But life goes on and im sure theres many other compliers rdy to step in to fill the void.To be the next compiler hero to be worshiped by the Grateful and the ungrateful cheater alike.
I of course will fall in on the Grateful side

Lol oh my hate for pre compilers is not because of some moral or honor thing...

My hate is very simple. If you can't figure out how to compile MQ2, generally I'd say you don't have a very high IQ, and those people are the ones I don't think should use MQ2.

Now i'm not saying everyone that uses a precompile is a retard, because lets face it there are people that just don't have the time to compile MQ2. What I'm saying is if you do not know how to compile mq2 chances are you ride the short bus to school or you are just lazy. There are plenty of guides out there that tell you how to compile mq2 for free. If you compile MQ2 once, it only takes about 5 minutes to compile it every patch day.

Argument an intelligent precompile user would make is that the plug-ins would take longer to compile. My counter to this is, the more you want to cheat the more time you should take to do it.

In closing, I want you to consider this question. Do you really think we would be having the problems with suspensions due to cheating if precompilers never existed?

My Answer: No, generally the people that draw so much attention to mq2 are those idiots trying to profit from precompiles. Retards using active hacks everywhere from precompiles.

Precompiler Answer: Yes, active hack source code is everywhere (noob you even posted /zone and /warp). It’s crazy for you think that an idiot won't get a hold of it.

==Think about this; there would be decreased number of retards using mq2, if precompiles didn't exist. Maybe not non-existent, but considerably less.

Noobhaxor

Just saw this post and needed to comment

FJRinFL said:

Well Damn..... I sure hate to see some coder get trashed like this and feel like crap... TheZ Hang in there man.... Hell ALL of this is just a game anyway right???

And you learn and hone your skills working the game which in turns makes you a better coder right....

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Pre-compiling doesn't require SKILL and its not an ART. Now that being said. I understand as do anyone that uses mq2 that people have become so reliant on those precompilers that they can never go away. I'm just glad to see one giving it up to do something better. Here is my favorite avatar i've ever seen on Redguides.com. Thank you randomguy01 this image is worth a 1000 words.

I agree with everything in the above statement except for this

Noobhaxor said:

If you compile MQ2 once, it only takes about 5 minutes to compile it every patch day.

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If your talking about a vanilla MQ2 maybe it would take 5 minutes but to find all the offsets update all the sources of your plugins and remove the anti warp code its gonna take you a little bit more time

5 minutes tops, not counting build time. But I kept all of my offsets in one file and had all of my files needing updated offsets include that in their build. I also went around all of the anti-warp coding except for the key array and the /warp command. The only reason it took so long to build was that I had like 80 plugins near the end there.

Thesz it was a good run buddy, I know Iwillmissyour precompiles even though I can compile my own yours always seemed to be spot on faster tehn mine did. Give em hell

Okay, I'm just going to say it here, because I've gotten too many PMs for me to want to respond to them all.

I'm not going to give my compile out to people. I was serious when I said that the reason I didn't want to do the precompile any more was that it didn't feel right to me to take the work of others in that fashion. While the opinion I hold may not be echoed, and is probably not echoed by most here, that doesn't change it. I plan on giving out zips to a few friends, mostly guildies, no one else. TurkReno's compile is posted here if you need a precompile, or you could simply get access to MQ2VIP and use one of the numerous guides posted everyone on both sites and compile it yourself.

The few times I was too lazy to compile on my own, I always enjoyed your compile TheZ. I would never have the patience to do that and update the Docs for it at every patch, so kudos to that.

On another note (don't see this as a flame, just me being curious), as to the legality of posting pre-compiles, especially pre-compiles where something has been modified in the source or changed, are as far as I remember, against the GPL if the modified source isn't also made public. But my mind is often wandering and I didn't really read the GPL in detail, so I'm just saying odd stuff at odd times

The precompiles gone, well, I think it both has it pros and cons.

The cons are that the lazy people no longer have the easy way out

The pros are (yes, this is gonna sound harsh and rude and flamish and all that) that the clueless people might leave us and stop bugging the rest I don't really mean bugging the rest on these boards, I don't mind that, I'd just not reply to a thread if I didn't care about it However, sometimes (when I'm not being carefull) I've encountered people sending me tells in-game saying stuff like "OGM d3wd pls t3ll me h0w MQ w0rks i dl on RG (or other precompiles site)" or just the (if I happen to be running some of the "obvious" MM AA thingies) "pls fix macro".. At those times I just want to say "GO AWAY AND RTFM".


Okay, off to work, I'm done babbling

Laters Thez, will miss your compiles, thanks for the run

Noobhaxor, I have respect for TheZ because of his dedication and quick reaction time to new MQ2 releases. Some might say what you do requires next to no skill because all you've posted are macro's and plugins that you didn't make.

darkeros said:

Until there's better file protection to stop something like that, I would understand that releasing it would allow something like that. ITS CALLED CHEATING, don't cry if you get cheated at the same time....

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For file protection, the easiest way is to not remove mq2auth and add a check for mq2auth in the plugin you create. Have it check the auth each and every time that you use the command the plugin has, as well as when you initialize it.

Glad you mentioned that, Siddin. That's a very good answer to TP's problems he mentioned.

Z I am gonna miss your Compiles as well they were the bomb. Thanks for all the hard work in the past. Look forward to anything you share with us in the future.

Have a great day,

Z, Thanks for your pre-compiles, they saved me alot of time, seeming as I have an 8 month old daughter and a hectic schedule, I downed your compile cause it was much like my own, and like another poster said, just saved me a bit of time. Guess I will go back to compiling my own now

That being said, if your interested in working on bigger and better things with MQ let me know, as I am now finding myself with alot more freetime since I moved to sticksville in the middle of nowhere, I would be more than willing to start up a message board on my web site and get a few others there and maybe we could do some cool things. If anyone besides Z is interested, let me know, and I will throw up a MB and start granting access to people who would be serious about it.

Letting you know up front, I know a tiny bit about plugins but I would be more than willing to learn and provide the space for a team to work together, uplads and other things. Of coarse, no prophit, just for those who can contribute.

Either way I hope you stay on RG, will miss you if your gone.

N

I've currently got my plate full trying to learn how to code some of the plugins that have been floating around in my head for a while, but thanks for the offer.

No No, No retirement!

Can I have my red cents back ?

*heads off to cancel his sub

ROFL, You make me laugh..

It's not the end of the world TheZ has quit, jesum crow.



PS- He's provided alot more to redguides than you ever had, I wouldn't be so rude to him.. If he never had been here what would you have done since 2004?

Thank you for all your hard work. I hate to see you stop, as you were mine and my wife's favorite compiler. But I understand your reasons. Why some people believe that they can throw manners or even common decency out the window just because they are online is a subject that never ceases to amaze me.